The Dunk & Women's Basketball

[Charliebball]

The most in depth article I've seen on the subject

How Viral Dunkers Can Revolutionize Women's Basketball

 

[Bigboote]

What's the BFD with dunking?

There seems to be an obsession with power in sports these days. I heard a spot on NPR the other day with (sorry I can't remember her name) the woman who was Emma Stone's double on the court for "The Battle of the Sexes". She trained with Billie Jean King and talked about how difficult it was to learn to play with a wooden racquet. As with wooden vs. aluminum bats, the sweet spot in a wooden racquet is so much smaller than in a metal/composite racquet. Tennis players today rely so much more on power than finesse. Same with basketball on many levels. In baseball, do you ever wonder why starters pitch only every 5 days and are on pitch counts? It's because they're pitching all out all the time. Sandy Koufax became a great pitcher when he learned to hold back a little -- he was able to place the ball better by throwing maybe 2-5 mph slower, and it was then that he struck out 382 batters in a season. You've got guys striking out 200 times a season regularly, when the record 20 years ago was 189 (heck, I'm getting old, Bobby Bonds's record may have been broken before that). That's all about power, too, every swing a home-run swing.

 

[tomcat]

Every year or so this subject comes up, and I tend to say the same thing every time. So if you've heard it before (and even less likely, remembered it), please forgive me.

The game of women's college basketball is played primarily below the rim. This is because most players cannot play above the rim and the few who can tend not to, for a variety of reasons. A major reason that I gravitated to WCBB about 20 years ago was precisely because it was played below the rim. I found that when the game was played well (as in UConn WCBB), it was much more enjoyable than the type of basketball played by the men, which I see as a marriage of Rollerball and the WWE.

Now, I have no illusions about my feelings about dunking. Dunking is a proxy for the many things I do not like about men's basketball: The chest-thumping "It's all about me" attitude of most players. The quick trip from freshman year in college to the pros, and the accompanying lack of basketball and educational experience that results (It is said that one of the top NBA players has asserted that the world is flat. I cannot prove that he said it, but iI absolutely believe he could have). The body-as-human-billboard tattooing. The fact that actual plays involving multiple players have been replaced with (as Johnny Most would say) fiddlin' and diddlin'.

If a fan wants to watch this stuff, fine. It's not for me. Fortunately, as I was making up my mind about all these things, I discovered UConn WCBB. When done correctly, having to play below the rim creates a game whose beauty is unsurpassed. An occasional dunk or two will not change that, but dunks as a regular part of the game will, IMHO, ruin the game. Once you get over the novelty of a woman dunking, the fact of a dunk is NOT, repeat NOT more exciting for the fans. It will reduce the team's reliance on those wonderful plays that cause us to "ooh" and "aah." It will fundamentally change the game in ways that will not be an improvement.

It is hard for me to believe, but I think there are people out there who are convinced that as many people would watch the women's game as the men's if only the women could be more like the men. If only they could dunk. If only they could be more athletic. I believe that those folks, and they include many WCBB coaches and officials, are wrong, because the more the women's game resembles the men's, the more the new fans will see it as a weak substitute for the men's game, and they will be right.,

WCBB needs to be a different game. It needs to preserve the things the fans love about it. I know I am in the minority here, but it would not bother me at all if the sport banned dunking. Let the Laeticia Amiheres of the world focus their energy on perfecting their basic skills and on teamwork. WCBB, played correctly, is smart. It needs to stay that way.

 

[JordyG]

What's the BFD with dunking?

There seems to be an obsession with power in sports these days. I heard a spot on NPR the other day with (sorry I can't remember her name) the woman who was Emma Stone's double on the court for "The Battle of the Sexes". She trained with Billie Jean King and talked about how difficult it was to learn to play with a wooden racquet. As with wooden vs. aluminum bats, the sweet spot in a wooden racquet is so much smaller than in a metal/composite racquet. Tennis players today rely so much more on power than finesse. Same with basketball on many levels. In baseball, do you ever wonder why starters pitch only every 5 days and are on pitch counts? It's because they're pitching all out all the time. Sandy Koufax became a great pitcher when he learned to hold back a little -- he was able to place the ball better by throwing maybe 2-5 mph slower, and it was then that he struck out 382 batters in a season. You've got guys striking out 200 times a season regularly, when the record 20 years ago was 189 (heck, I'm getting old, Bobby Bonds's record may have been broken before that). That's all about power, too, every swing a home-run swing.

Preach Big, preach! Hopefully some of this young dunkers will learn how to shoot, dribble, pass, box out, show good footwork, read their teammates and play defense. Perhaps this is all too much to ask.

 

[JordyG]

Every year or so this subject comes up, and I tend to say the same thing every time. So if you've heard it before (and even less likely, remembered it), please forgive me.

The game of women's college basketball is played primarily below the rim. This is because most players cannot play above the rim and the few who can tend not to, for a variety of reasons. A major reason that I gravitated to WCBB about 20 years ago was precisely because it was played below the rim. I found that when the game was played well (as in UConn WCBB), it was much more enjoyable than the type of basketball played by the men, which I see as a marriage of Rollerball and the WWE.

Now, I have no illusions about my feelings about dunking. Dunking is a proxy for the many things I do not like about men's basketball: The chest-thumping "It's all about me" attitude of most players. The quick trip from freshman year in college to the pros, and the accompanying lack of basketball and educational experience that results (It is said that one of the top NBA players has asserted that the world is flat. I cannot prove that he said it, but iI absolutely believe he could have). The body-as-human-billboard tattooing. The fact that actual plays involving multiple players have been replaced with (as Johnny Most would say) fiddlin' and diddlin'.

If a fan wants to watch this stuff, fine. It's not for me. Fortunately, as I was making up my mind about all these things, I discovered UConn WCBB. When done correctly, having to play below the rim creates a game whose beauty is unsurpassed. An occasional dunk or two will not change that, but dunks as a regular part of the game will, IMHO, ruin the game. Once you get over the novelty of a woman dunking, the fact of a dunk is NOT, repeat NOT more exciting for the fans. It will reduce the team's reliance on those wonderful plays that cause us to "ooh" and "aah." It will fundamentally change the game in ways that will not be an improvement.

It is hard for me to believe, but I think there are people out there who are convinced that as many people would watch the women's game as the men's if only the women could be more like the men. If only they could dunk. If only they could be more athletic. I believe that those folks, and they include many WCBB coaches and officials, are wrong, because the more the women's game resembles the men's, the more the new fans will see it as a weak substitute for the men's game, and they will be right.,

WCBB needs to be a different game. It needs to preserve the things the fans love about it. I know I am in the minority here, but it would not bother me at all if the sport banned dunking. Let the Laeticia Amiheres of the world focus their energy on perfecting their basic skills and on teamwork. WCBB, played correctly, is smart. It needs to stay that way.

Double likes the both of you. Triple.

 

[cbraarj]

What's the BFD with dunking?

There seems to be an obsession with power in sports these days. I heard a spot on NPR the other day with (sorry I can't remember her name) the woman who was Emma Stone's double on the court for "The Battle of the Sexes". She trained with Billie Jean King and talked about how difficult it was to learn to play with a wooden racquet. As with wooden vs. aluminum bats, the sweet spot in a wooden racquet is so much smaller than in a metal/composite racquet. Tennis players today rely so much more on power than finesse. Same with basketball on many levels. In baseball, do you ever wonder why starters pitch only every 5 days and are on pitch counts? It's because they're pitching all out all the time. Sandy Koufax became a great pitcher when he learned to hold back a little -- he was able to place the ball better by throwing maybe 2-5 mph slower, and it was then that he struck out 382 batters in a season. You've got guys striking out 200 times a season regularly, when the record 20 years ago was 189 (heck, I'm getting old, Bobby Bonds's record may have been broken before that). That's all about power, too, every swing a home-run swing.

Also in baseball, pitching is an unnatural motion that is why pitch counts are followed closely at every level. Softball a pitcher can go everyday because it is the natural motion. I had a torn rotator cuff and a torn labrum from pitching. a friend of mine played with Bobby Bonds and he would come to Bristol ( played in the Giants organization with him Nice guy!

 

[Charliebball]

Preach Big, preach! Hopefully some of this young dunkers will learn how to shoot, dribble, pass, box out, show good footwork, read their teammates and play defense. Perhaps this is all too much to ask.

I tend to stick with college basketball to get away from the end to end dunkathons but I have to admit when watching the NBA playoffs the quality of the ball handling and outside shooting is far better then it's ever been.........the European style of play has pretty much taken over with Golden State as a good example..........every starter can handle the ball and every starter can shoot the three....................yes they may not always box out or do some other fundamentals but on the offensive end basketball has never been so good.............

 

[Bronxjeff]

Basketball was designed to require skillful shooting of the ball into the hoop. The original game didn't even have a backboard. The height of the hoop was set at ten feet clearly to keep it out of the reach of direct scoring as well as goal tending. That's what creates the strategy and beauty of the game that we who love what the wcbb achieves when played well so appreciate.

I would advocate for raising the men's rim height to 11 feet to make the game better.

Once you've allowed me to start cleaning up sport messes, I would sort out the American League and get rid of the DH to play real baseball too!

 

[Go/huskies]

I’m all for dunking if a kid can do it, in the women’s game it’s exciting because it’s not something everyone can do. There are two dunkers in the 2019 class, and Uconn has shown interest in both.

 

[cockhrnleghrn]

What's the BFD with dunking?

There seems to be an obsession with power in sports these days. I heard a spot on NPR the other day with (sorry I can't remember her name) the woman who was Emma Stone's double on the court for "The Battle of the Sexes". She trained with Billie Jean King and talked about how difficult it was to learn to play with a wooden racquet. As with wooden vs. aluminum bats, the sweet spot in a wooden racquet is so much smaller than in a metal/composite racquet. Tennis players today rely so much more on power than finesse. Same with basketball on many levels. In baseball, do you ever wonder why starters pitch only every 5 days and are on pitch counts? It's because they're pitching all out all the time. Sandy Koufax became a great pitcher when he learned to hold back a little -- he was able to place the ball better by throwing maybe 2-5 mph slower, and it was then that he struck out 382 batters in a season. You've got guys striking out 200 times a season regularly, when the record 20 years ago was 189 (heck, I'm getting old, Bobby Bonds's record may have been broken before that). That's all about power, too, every swing a home-run swing.

It would bring in a new set of fans.

 

[tomcat]

It would bring in a new set of fans.

And those fans would come to WCBB with the expectation that it would be played like men's basketball.
And they would be disappointed because, um, women are not men.
And they would go away.

The fans of WCBB like it for what it is, not what it could be if the players were taller and stronger. Because of this, their expectations are realistic. When the game exceeds their expectations (as happens with many UConn WCBB games), they are delighted, which, for a fan, ios about as good as it can get.

 

[Monte]

It would bring in a new set of fans.

BUT, they would be "Look at Me" fans......tattoes, weird hair, leave early for pros, etc.,......and a lot of current fans would walk out.

 

[JordyG]

Basketball was designed to require skillful shooting of the ball into the hoop. The original game didn't even have a backboard. The height of the hoop was set at ten feet clearly to keep it out of the reach of direct scoring as well as goal tending. That's what creates the strategy and beauty of the game that we who love what the wcbb achieves when played well so appreciate.

I would advocate for raising the men's rim height to 11 feet to make the game better.

Once you've allowed me to start cleaning up sport messes, I would sort out the American League and get rid of the DH to play real baseball too!

I would also increase the size of the rinks in hockey and ban metal or composite rackets in tennis. Yeah, I'm like that.

 

[zls44]

BUT, they would be "Look at Me" fans.tattoes, weird hair, leave early for pros, etc.,.and a lot of current fans would walk out.

What's a dog whistle sound like when its pumped through a loudspeaker at 400 decibels?

 

[JordyG]

What's a dog whistle sound like when its pumped through a loudspeaker at 400 decibels?

A politician.

 

[triaddukefan]

BUT, they would be "Look at Me" fans.tattoes, weird hair, leave early for pros, etc.,.and a lot of current fans would walk out.

 

[JordyG]

Watch the warriors or Celtics last year. That's the highest level of team basketball on the planet. In the case of the warriors, maybe in human history. The nba game has moved away from isolation kobe, mj, iverson style.

I like watching uconn wcbb; i often use some ideas from their sets as teaching points for my team. but its hard for me to be super into a sport where I can beat the players in the game theyre experts at even though im shorter.

Probably an unpopular opinion, and i realize they are superb players in their own right. But I just cant get with it as a diehard fan. Still happy when the womens game gets good pr, though. Our girls need better rolemodels that arent afraid to be tough AND feminine.

Also the thing about tattoos is ridiculous. Its a generational difference that you wont ever get, im guessing. I say, you do you, if youre not hurting anyone.

Edit: thought i was on the mens board but hey, its interesting to share perspectives.

Interesting. You know Muhammad Ali, George Foreman and a host of heavyweights were big fans of the lower divisions even though they knew it would be child's play to whup their asses in the ring. Your response is specious, gratuitous, puzzling and seems not well thought out. But, to each his own.

And as to tattoo's. Well, I can't wait until these walking cartoons find their tattoo-less grandchildren won't want to be seen in the same zip code with them. I just wonder why they don't all just paint themselves green and blue and have done with it.

 

[RSHERMVIKES]

Every year or so this subject comes up, and I tend to say the same thing every time. So if you've heard it before (and even less likely, remembered it), please forgive me.

The game of women's college basketball is played primarily below the rim. This is because most players cannot play above the rim and the few who can tend not to, for a variety of reasons. A major reason that I gravitated to WCBB about 20 years ago was precisely because it was played below the rim. I found that when the game was played well (as in UConn WCBB), it was much more enjoyable than the type of basketball played by the men, which I see as a marriage of Rollerball and the WWE.

Now, I have no illusions about my feelings about dunking. Dunking is a proxy for the many things I do not like about men's basketball: The chest-thumping "It's all about me" attitude of most players. The quick trip from freshman year in college to the pros, and the accompanying lack of basketball and educational experience that results (It is said that one of the top NBA players has asserted that the world is flat. I cannot prove that he said it, but iI absolutely believe he could have). The body-as-human-billboard tattooing. The fact that actual plays involving multiple players have been replaced with (as Johnny Most would say) fiddlin' and diddlin'.

If a fan wants to watch this stuff, fine. It's not for me. Fortunately, as I was making up my mind about all these things, I discovered UConn WCBB. When done correctly, having to play below the rim creates a game whose beauty is unsurpassed. An occasional dunk or two will not change that, but dunks as a regular part of the game will, IMHO, ruin the game. Once you get over the novelty of a woman dunking, the fact of a dunk is NOT, repeat NOT more exciting for the fans. It will reduce the team's reliance on those wonderful plays that cause us to "ooh" and "aah." It will fundamentally change the game in ways that will not be an improvement.

It is hard for me to believe, but I think there are people out there who are convinced that as many people would watch the women's game as the men's if only the women could be more like the men. If only they could dunk. If only they could be more athletic. I believe that those folks, and they include many WCBB coaches and officials, are wrong, because the more the women's game resembles the men's, the more the new fans will see it as a weak substitute for the men's game, and they will be right.,

WCBB needs to be a different game. It needs to preserve the things the fans love about it. I know I am in the minority here, but it would not bother me at all if the sport banned dunking. Let the Laeticia Amiheres of the world focus their energy on perfecting their basic skills and on teamwork. WCBB, played correctly, is smart. It needs to stay that way.

Tomcat- - -I couldn't have said it better! I agree with everything you said, 100%!
Separate WBB from MBB by banning the DUNK!
Keep "the beautiful game", beautiful!
The talking suits should, instead of talking about what WBB doesn't have, talk about all aspects that WBB does have!

 

[Monte]

Watch the warriors or Celtics last year. That's the highest level of team basketball on the planet. In the case of the warriors, maybe in human history. The nba game has moved away from isolation kobe, mj, iverson style.

I like watching uconn wcbb; i often use some ideas from their sets as teaching points for my team. but its hard for me to be super into a sport where I can beat the players in the game theyre experts at even though im shorter.

Probably an unpopular opinion, and i realize they are superb players in their own right. But I just cant get with it as a diehard fan. Still happy when the womens game gets good pr, though. Our girls need better rolemodels that arent afraid to be tough AND feminine.

Also the thing about tattoos is ridiculous. Its a generational difference that you wont ever get, im guessing. I say, you do you, if youre not hurting anyone.

Edit: thought i was on the mens board but hey, its interesting to share perspectives.

Which Uconn women players did you play against, and how much did you beat them by?

 

[CL82]

Tomcat- - -I couldn't have said it better! I agree with everything you said, 100%!
Separate WBB from MBB by banning the DUNK!
Keep "the beautiful game", beautiful!
The talking suits should, instead of talking about what WBB doesn't have, talk about all aspects that WBB does have!

Nature banned the dunk from woman's basketball, at least for the time being. For the men it is a high percentage shot, for the woman vanity. It will happen eventually and when it does it will change the game. But it will take Gabby-like athleticism.

 

[DaddyChoc]

BUT, they would be "Look at Me" fans.tattoes, weird hair, leave early for pros, etc.,.and a lot of current fans would walk out.

what fans... that the problem with the Womens game, lack of fans and others are thinking dunking would bring some more.

UConn's attendance has declined over the years and you'd think with 4 straight titles it would be the "greatest show on earth". Lets not fool ourselves and act like WCBB fans are packing arenas coast to coast

 

[eebmg]

The dunk will never enter the women's game at a level which will distort the current game (assuming no rim changes). At most, it would happen a few times a game on breakaways so to think the players will ignore developing their other more traditional core skills seems unreasonable. Like it or not, the dunk does energize the crowd and the players and probably because it is so rare. Much ado about nothing.

 

[DaddyChoc]

Nature banned the dunk from woman's basketball, at least for the time being. For the men it is a high percentage shot, for the woman vanity. It will happen eventually and when it does it will change the game. But it will take Gabby-like athleticism.

people are acting like dunking is around the corner for WCBB... has anyone dunked since BG

 

[DaddyChoc]

The dunk will never enter the women's game at a level which will distort the current game (assuming no rim changes). At most, it would happen a few times a game on breakaways so to think the players will ignore developing their other more traditional core skills seems unreasonable. Like it or not, the dunk does energize the crowd and the players and probably because it is so rare. Much ado about nothing.

well said

 

[Charliebball]

Interesting. You know Muhammad Ali, George Foreman and a host of heavyweights were big fans of the lower divisions even though they knew it would be child's play to whup their asses in the ring. Your response is specious, puzzling and seems not well thought out. But, to each his own.

And as to tattoo's. Well, I can't wait until these walking cartoons find their tattoo-less grandchildren won't want to be seen in the same zip code with them. I just wonder why they don't all just paint themselves green and blue and have done with it.

I told my high school age daughter half jokingly to forget about college................the most profitable career she could ever have would be as the owner of a chain of tattoo removal shops