The Big East vs. P5 and now the AAC... | The Boneyard

The Big East vs. P5 and now the AAC...

DefenseBB

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I have been watching this year unfold with optimism that the Big East could make inroads into the lead the P5 conferences had over us in terms of success, gravitas and NCAAT bids. Unfortunately while praying that Villanova, Seton Hall, Marquette and DePaul would exert some national attention grabbing wins, the AAC has sprinted by the Big East to #6 position with USF, UCF, Houston and Tulane leading their effort with a 49-22 record while the Big Least has 31-31 record.

Early season disappointments are Seton Hall (lost to Fordham), Villanova (lost Temple and Princeton), St John's (losses to Stony Brook and Charlotte) to name 3 of our higher profile schools. These schools plus DePaul and Creighton have also lost additional games to the P5 this season but those could be expected with the one note of "if you want to get ahead of them, you have to beat them at some point". To lose to the likes of the programs I listed simply can't occur if you are trying to elevate the league. I know many will say "Princeton is good as Carla is their coach" which is true with the caveat that Villanova should have a significant edge in recruiting and resources than what Carla has. Princeton did lose to URI so it's not like they are unbeatable.

The bottom line is the Big East needs to improve the recruiting, beat the lower mid-majors and earn a few good wins against P5 schools. Until we regularly do that, UConn in the Big East is not really moving the needle. Until that happens, we may be pre-ordained to be a 1-2 bid league with an occasional 3rd bid which is disappointing.
 

meyers7

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I have been watching this year unfold with optimism that the Big East could make inroads into the lead the P5 conferences had over us in terms of success, gravitas and NCAAT bids. Unfortunately while praying that Villanova, Seton Hall, Marquette and DePaul would exert some national attention grabbing wins, the AAC has sprinted by the Big East to #6 position with USF, UCF, Houston and Tulane leading their effort with a 49-22 record while the Big Least has 31-31 record.

Early season disappointments are Seton Hall (lost to Fordham), Villanova (lost Temple and Princeton), St John's (losses to Stony Brook and Charlotte) to name 3 of our higher profile schools. These schools plus DePaul and Creighton have also lost additional games to the P5 this season but those could be expected with the one note of "if you want to get ahead of them, you have to beat them at some point". To lose to the likes of the programs I listed simply can't occur if you are trying to elevate the league. I know many will say "Princeton is good as Carla is their coach" which is true with the caveat that Villanova should have a significant edge in recruiting and resources than what Carla has. Princeton did lose to URI so it's not like they are unbeatable.

The bottom line is the Big East needs to improve the recruiting, beat the lower mid-majors and earn a few good wins against P5 schools. Until we regularly do that, UConn in the Big East is not really moving the needle. Until that happens, we may be pre-ordained to be a 1-2 bid league with an occasional 3rd bid which is disappointing.
I know most people, including Geno, were pretty excited about getting back into the Big East, but for me the only benefit (for WBB) I saw was less travel for the team.
 

CL82

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I have been watching this year unfold with optimism that the Big East could make inroads into the lead the P5 conferences had over us in terms of success, gravitas and NCAAT bids. Unfortunately while praying that Villanova, Seton Hall, Marquette and DePaul would exert some national attention grabbing wins, the AAC has sprinted by the Big East to #6 position with USF, UCF, Houston and Tulane leading their effort with a 49-22 record while the Big Least has 31-31 record.

Early season disappointments are Seton Hall (lost to Fordham), Villanova (lost Temple and Princeton), St John's (losses to Stony Brook and Charlotte) to name 3 of our higher profile schools. These schools plus DePaul and Creighton have also lost additional games to the P5 this season but those could be expected with the one note of "if you want to get ahead of them, you have to beat them at some point". To lose to the likes of the programs I listed simply can't occur if you are trying to elevate the league. I know many will say "Princeton is good as Carla is their coach" which is true with the caveat that Villanova should have a significant edge in recruiting and resources than what Carla has. Princeton did lose to URI so it's not like they are unbeatable.

The bottom line is the Big East needs to improve the recruiting, beat the lower mid-majors and earn a few good wins against P5 schools. Until we regularly do that, UConn in the Big East is not really moving the needle. Until that happens, we may be pre-ordained to be a 1-2 bid league with an occasional 3rd bid which is disappointing.
We elevated the quality of women’s basketball in the old big east and did the same in the American. Give it time.
 
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It’s a sad state when there is no such thing as a BIG GAME in your own conference. There nothing to be done about it. We just have to live with all those games that could be won if Geno picked the starting 5 out of a hat.

UCONN will look like the best team in the land as they mow over the BE again. They won’t pay for their mistakes and go into the TOURNEY as a # 1 seed. Nothing to see here.
 

Plebe

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Unfortunately, the upper half of the "other 10" teams in the Big East have taken steps back from the period when UConn was in the AAC. The Big East averaged about 3 NCAAT bids per year in the 2014-19 period, and got 4 bids as recently as 2018. But last year only Marquette made it in, and this year there's a real chance it could be a one-bid league.

DePaul played in 18 consecutive NCAATs from 2002 to 2019 and was in line for at least a #5 seed in 2020, but missed the 2021 tournament after a late-season skid. Marquette does not look like an NCAA tournament team so far this season. Villanova has been without Madison Siegrest for its past several games (I guess she's injured?) and just lost to Temple. Seton Hall has underachieved considering they have Park-Lane, Espinoza-Hunter, and Cooks.

It's a bit bizarre to me that the "other 10" Big East teams are overall so much more competitive nationally in men's basketball than women's basketball.
 
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Whether it's the Big East or the AAC, neither conference offers much competition for UConn..........the program will continue to look legit by playing a very competitive out of conference schedule throughout the season.........those with great expectations for a Big East resuscitation will likely be disappointed......
 
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Unfortunately, the upper half of the "other 10" teams in the Big East have taken steps back from the period when UConn was in the AAC. The Big East averaged about 3 NCAAT bids per year in the 2014-19 period, and got 4 bids as recently as 2018. But last year only Marquette made it in, and this year there's a real chance it could be a one-bid league.

DePaul played in 18 consecutive NCAATs from 2002 to 2019 and was in line for at least a #5 seed in 2020, but missed the 2021 tournament after a late-season skid. Marquette does not look like an NCAA tournament team so far this season. Villanova has been without Madison Siegrest for its past several games (I guess she's injured?) and just lost to Temple. Seton Hall has underachieved considering they have Park-Lane, Espinoza-Hunter, and Cooks.

It's a bit bizarre to me that the "other 10" Big East teams are overall so much more competitive nationally in men's basketball than women's basketball.
Could we have expected this year to see more of an immediate UConn impact on the quality of the BE with the extra year given because of Covid, the transfer portal, and just the impact of good freshman recruits? Like you said, it's like a SCUD. Nothing happening.
 

KnightBridgeAZ

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It's a bit bizarre to me that the "other 10" Big East teams are overall so much more competitive nationally in men's basketball than women's basketball.
It is "bizarre" - but not so much. These schools do not have huge athletic budgets and men's basketball is largely a marquee sport (as it was in the oBE, which, after all, started with a lot of the schools we are talking about). Men's basketball generates revenue, the women's side not-so-much. I suspect that some of the schools don't really care much about women's basketball being even competitive, which just makes it worse.
 
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It is "bizarre" - but not so much. These schools do not have huge athletic budgets and men's basketball is largely a marquee sport (as it was in the oBE, which, after all, started with a lot of the schools we are talking about). Men's basketball generates revenue, the women's side not-so-much. I suspect that some of the schools don't really care much about women's basketball being even competitive, which just makes it worse.
What happened between the old BE and the current BE? Was it only the loss of UConn and ND? The teams in the conference are not insanely different. 6 teams including UConn were in the old BE. 5 additions and two of them are among the best in the conference, Marquette and DePaul. Did the teams shift their emphasis so much away from WCBB? I don't really get it. There's also the supposed factor on the other side, improvement overall in the quality of WCBB. Seems that would be true in the BE too. What conferences are good now and what conferences have been good historically? Is the ACC considered good currently, with Louis, NC St, ND, FL St, Duke?
Is it possible that there are only 20 or so really good intra-conference games per year? Wish it was different.
 

TheFarmFan

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Well it's debatable whether UConn is "bad for women's basketball," but assuming correlation equates causation, it certainly seems to be bad for the women's basketball conference it is in. ;)
 
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Well it's debatable whether UConn is "bad for women's basketball," but assuming correlation equates causation, it certainly seems to be bad for the women's basketball conference it is in. ;)
The general opinion on this thread is that the conference UConn joins becomes better. You are saying the opposite and I'm questioning what people are saying.
 

Plebe

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It is "bizarre" - but not so much. These schools do not have huge athletic budgets and men's basketball is largely a marquee sport (as it was in the oBE, which, after all, started with a lot of the schools we are talking about). Men's basketball generates revenue, the women's side not-so-much. I suspect that some of the schools don't really care much about women's basketball being even competitive, which just makes it worse.
All true, of course, but much of what you said applies across the board nationally. Women's basketball is, generally speaking, a money loser for almost all schools.

I get that p5 schools are willing to lose more money on WBB because they have more money to throw around. But the disparity in relative competitiveness of the Big East (and to a somewhat lesser extent, the AAC) in men's basketball vs. women's basketball is really glaring. Does that mean that these two conferences have the greatest disparity in spending in MBB vs. WBB?
 

npignatjr

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We elevated the quality of women’s basketball in the old big east and did the same in the American. Give it time.
The power schools in the old big east and the new big east are vastly different in terms of potential.
 

CL82

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The power schools in the old big east and the new big east are vastly different in terms of potential.
For women’s basketball? Are you sure about that?
 
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The power schools in the old big east and the new big east are vastly different in terms of potential.
Can you explain. I’m trying to get someone to explain it. Where’s old dude or somebody
 
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The power schools in the oBE were absorbed into power conferences. The non-power schools are still in the BE (of course excluding UCONN).
 
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We complain about the team losing to the #1 team, our time in the AAC, the (New)BE, our players, on and on. This fetish concerning 'tough' competition night-in-and-out that would be so great is delusional. What would being in another conf be good for-- beyond the money? Players development? What? The Uconn that won 4 straight championships played in a weak conf, won games by an excess of 30-points, and only a few apostles would argue that these players would, individually and as a group be better basketball players had they gone somewhere else and played in a better conf. Perhaps we owe Stewie, Jefferson, etc. an apology from the Program/School. How much better would they have been. And, why is it that such weak competition have not stopped us from beating those well seasoned and thus feared competition. This is the same as saying that you will become a smarter student if you go to Stanford and not Conn or SoC. Really!
 
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First of all, there is TECHNICALLY no such thing as an automatic win or loss.
Having said that, it seems that UCONN can put 18 wins in the bank playing in the BE (not counting 3 W's in the BE Tournament.
And, each of the other 9 teams can put 2 losses in the bank (again not counting the BE Tourney)
So that's 21 potential UCONN wins without a single NC game.
How many games would UCONN have to lose in the regular season to NOT get an NCAA berth?
I know this is sacrilege, but it seems the nicest thing the Huskies can do for the Big East is to tank the BE Tourney Final.
This way, someone like Villanova, DePaul or Marquette would get an automatic invite without having to sweat out the bubble.
According to Geno, we don't care where we are seeded since we would have to play the best teams eventually.
Don't expect it to happen, just sayin'.
 

CocoHusky

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We complain about the team losing to the #1 team, our time in the AAC, the (New)BE, our players, on and on. This fetish concerning 'tough' competition night-in-and-out that would be so great is delusional. What would being in another conf be good for-- beyond the money? Players development? What? The Uconn that won 4 straight championships played in a weak conf, won games by an excess of 30-points, and only a few apostles would argue that these players would, individually and as a group be better basketball players had they gone somewhere else and played in a better conf. Perhaps we owe Stewie, Jefferson, etc. an apology from the Program/School. How much better would they have been. And, why is it that such weak competition have not stopped us from beating those well seasoned and thus feared competition. This is the same as saying that you will become a smarter student if you go to Stanford and not Conn or SoC. Really!
It is not delusional because of this thing called a conference tournament which is what precedes the NCAA tournament. You mentioned the last four consecutive UCONN championship and failed to consider that during the first two of those seasons UCONN faced the #2 team ( ND)-a loss and #3 Team Louisville - a win in conference tournament play prior to making a NCCA tournament run. Since being in the AAC and the New BE UCONN WBB last competitive game prior to the NCAA tournament happens to be in Mid February. This season it will be against TN (Feb 6) and in the past it has been against SC as late as 10 Feb. From that point until the sweet sixteen UCONN generally plays a string of -"cupcakes" ? The highest ranked teams UCONN WBB has played in that stretch of games is #20 ranked USF. The main take away should be that were UCONN in any of the P5 conference it would likely definitely be facing a top 10 team in order to win a conference championship instead of playing almost 5 weeks of basketball against cupcakes.
 
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All top teams have a couple of cupcakes on their schedule. But when your schedule is dominated by them, crumbs will begin to stick to you.
 
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The power schools in the oBE were absorbed into power conferences. The non-power schools are still in the BE (of course excluding UCONN).
Name them for me please. Syracuse? Pitt? Help me out, thanks.
 

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