The 2017 Baseball Winter Meetings

[Dove]

Should be an exciting week in Orlando this coming week starting Sunday. MLB Network always has amazing non-stop coverage.

Giancarlo Stanton has released hid Final Four teams that he would approve a trade to and the Yanks have made the cut.

Yankees
Dodgers
Cubs and...
Astros

Yankees and Dodgers want to get under the luxury cap. God luck there with a Stanton.

Also, the Marlins just dealt Dee Gordon to the Mariners for something.

Not a single big FA has signed yet this adding to the intrigue of the winter meetings. And then there is Shohei "Small Market" Otani.

 

[storrsroars]

Ohtani signed with the Angels... not exactly a "small market" team that initial reports suggested Ohtani was looking to join. Pujols still has 4 years left on his contract, so not sure how that's going to help Ohtani get a ton of DH at bats.

And while the press has eliminated the Cards from the Stanton sweepstakes, I wouldn't be so sure about that if the Fish can't come to agreement with the Yankees, who don't want to pay the full balance of Stanton's contract and also seem to want to unload undesirable contracts on the Fish. Cards are prepared to pay full boat.

 

[Dove]

One might think Otani may play a field position. OR...the Angels unload Pujols?

The linked CBS article shows that the Marlins and Yankees have agreed to the framework of a Stanton trade. If true....THANKS JEETS!!!!!

Yankees and Marlins reportedly have agreed to a Giancarlo Stanton trade

 

[billythekid]

The linked CBS article shows that the Marlins and Yankees have agreed to the framework of a Stanton trade. If true....THANKS JEETS!!!!!

Yankees and Marlins reportedly have agreed to a Giancarlo Stanton trade

I have mixed feelings on this deal. Not that Stanton for Starlin Castro and some second-tier minor leaguers isn't a good bargain, but the Yankees were so close last season and another slugging outfielder didn't seem like the missing piece. I don't follow the national league at all, so I don't know what kind of character he has, but the chemistry seemed so strong last season that I hate the idea of potentially disrupting that. That said, this would be a fun lineup to watch and trading Castro would open up second base for a possible Gleyber Torres position switch.

 

[Scoe]

Yankees trade Headley and Mitchell to SD for Jabari Blash. SD will pay the rest of Headley's salary which will shed 13 mill in payroll thats huge for many reasons opens up more money to bring back CC or get another starter. Opens up a spot for Andujar or bringing back Todd Frazier. I liked Headley he was a great clubhouse guy who accepted any role on the team but it was an easy decision to make. You also open an extra spot on the 40 man roster getting rid of Mitchell. Now the real tricky part will be getting rid of Ellsbury I guess you just bury him on the bench until he waives his no trade clause.

 

[storrsroars]

Yankees trade Headley and Mitchell to SD for Jabari Blash. SD will pay the rest of Headley's salary which will shed 13 mill in payroll thats huge for many reasons opens up more money to bring back CC or get another starter. Opens up a spot for Andujar or bringing back Todd Frazier. I liked Headley he was a great clubhouse guy who accepted any role on the team but it was an easy decision to make. You also open an extra spot on the 40 man roster getting rid of Mitchell. Now the real tricky part will be getting rid of Ellsbury I guess you just bury him on the bench until he waives his no trade clause.

The only entertainment we Pirates fans have to look forward to is how much we can fleece you guys for Gerrit Cole. Given our biggest need is a 3b with pop, Andujar fits that need, despite him still being a butcher over there. Given Cole has an expected surplus value around $70 mill, I think Huntington's starting bid is Andujar + Frazier.

 

[ZenConn]

Here we go. Alex Cobb on the Yankees radar...

 

[billythekid]

Yankees trade Headley and Mitchell to SD for Jabari Blash. SD will pay the rest of Headley's salary which will shed 13 mill in payroll thats huge for many reasons opens up more money to bring back CC or get another starter. Opens up a spot for Andujar or bringing back Todd Frazier. I liked Headley he was a great clubhouse guy who accepted any role on the team but it was an easy decision to make. You also open an extra spot on the 40 man roster getting rid of Mitchell. Now the real tricky part will be getting rid of Ellsbury I guess you just bury him on the bench until he waives his no trade clause.

I agree with you. I liked Headly too, but this seems like a no-brainer trade. While being a switch hitter is an advantage, Headly was way too streaky of a hitter and his defense was too erratic to make up for it. If the price is right, I'd be thrilled to have The Toddfather back in pinstripes. The guy seemed to love being a Yankee.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I think Baseball is in an interesting place right now. It seems clear that the path to success comes in part from playing and developing young guys. The long term contracts at big $ may be hard to land in the future. Look at the massive amount of dead weight there is around the league. Pujols is an example. Ellsbury, there are probably dozens of guys who aren't worth half their salary. It's a game of chicken right now between GMs and agents.

 

[zyron]

The only entertainment we Pirates fans have to look forward to is how much we can fleece you guys for Gerrit Cole. Given our biggest need is a 3b with pop, Andujar fits that need, despite him still being a butcher over there. Given Cole has an expected surplus value around $70 mill, I think Huntington's starting bid is Andujar + Frazier.

Yeah Cashman has really been getting fleeced in trades the last couple years

 

[storrsroars]

Yeah Cashman has really been getting fleeced in trades the last couple years

Well, Cashman has only made one trade with Pirates in last two years. Pirates got 5.5 WAR from Nova. Yankees got two guys in A ball, one will be 23 (Tito Polo) the other 25 (Stephen Tarpley) this year... getting kinda old, no?

To summarize the history of Pirates-Yankees trades between Huntington and Cashman (2008-present):

Pirates = 21.6 bWAR (Nova, Cervelli, Stewart, Qualls, Burnett, Erickson, Fryer, Hacker, D. McCutchen, Karstens, Tabata, Ohlendorf). Total of $65.6 mill salary, average $3.05/bWAR.

Yankees = 1.4 bWAR (Polo, Tarpley, J. Wilson, Haynes, McGehee, D. Moreno, Cayones, Hinske, R. Sanchez, D. Marte, Nady). Total of $18.3 mill salary, average $13.13/bWAR.

I'd say that's pretty lopsided...

 

[Deadrody]

Well, Cashman has only made one trade with Pirates in last two years. Pirates got 5.5 WAR from Nova. Yankees got two guys in A ball, one will be 23 (Tito Polo) the other 25 (Stephen Tarpley) this year... getting kinda old, no?

To summarize the history of Pirates-Yankees trades between Huntington and Cashman (2008-present):

Pirates = 21.6 bWAR (Nova, Cervelli, Stewart, Qualls, Burnett, Erickson, Fryer, Hacker, D. McCutchen, Karstens, Tabata, Ohlendorf). Total of $65.6 mill salary, average $3.05/bWAR.

Yankees = 1.4 bWAR (Polo, Tarpley, J. Wilson, Haynes, McGehee, D. Moreno, Cayones, Hinske, R. Sanchez, D. Marte, Nady). Total of $18.3 mill salary, average $13.13/bWAR.

I'd say that's pretty lopsided...

You're presenting all of that with no context whatsoever and minimal analysis beyond the surface.

AJ Burnett ? Wore out his welcome - traded to get something, rather than nothing. His WAR the 2 years after the world series win ? 0.0
Ivan Nova ? .500 pitcher that was about to be a free agent - again, trading for something, rather than nothing
Cervelli ? Mostly a career backup catcher in NY, but also traded for Justin Wilson who was then traded for Cessa and Green, Chad Green of the unhittable fastball and 2.7 WAR in his first year as a full time reliever
Xavier Nady ? Was worth 1.1 WAR in half of 2008, then promptly blew out his elbow and was then a FA
Damaso Marte ? Didn't do much in his 3 seasons in NY, but was a big contributor to the only thing that matters - a World Series in 2009, exactly what the Yankees are trying to acquire in most cases.

The Pirates are looking for younger, controllable players than the Yankees who are looking for "win now" pieces in most cases.

Beyond which, most of the WAR came from Nova and Burnett which speaks far more to the voodoo that the Pirates pitching coach uses than anything else.

How about Cashman turning Shane Greene into Didi Gregorius ? Or Chapman, Beltran, and Miller into Frazier, Torres, McKinney, Heller, Sheffield, Tate, Freasieohser, Crawford or McCann into Guzman (who became Stanton) and Abreu ?

I don't think Cashman is trying to make his hay trading the likes of Nova, Burnett, and Cervelli to the Pirates.

 

[storrsroars]

You're presenting all of that with no context whatsoever and minimal analysis beyond the surface.

AJ Burnett ? Wore out his welcome - traded to get something, rather than nothing. His WAR the 2 years after the world series win ? 0.0
Ivan Nova ? .500 pitcher that was about to be a free agent - again, trading for something, rather than nothing
Cervelli ? Mostly a career backup catcher in NY, but also traded for Justin Wilson who was then traded for Cessa and Green, Chad Green of the unhittable fastball and 2.7 WAR in his first year as a full time reliever
Xavier Nady ? Was worth 1.1 WAR in half of 2008, then promptly blew out his elbow and was then a FA
Damaso Marte ? Didn't do much in his 3 seasons in NY, but was a big contributor to the only thing that matters - a World Series in 2009, exactly what the Yankees are trying to acquire in most cases.

The Pirates are looking for younger, controllable players than the Yankees who are looking for "win now" pieces in most cases.

Beyond which, most of the WAR came from Nova and Burnett which speaks far more to the voodoo that the Pirates pitching coach uses than anything else.

How about Cashman turning Shane Greene into Didi Gregorius ? Or Chapman, Beltran, and Miller into Frazier, Torres, McKinney, Heller, Sheffield, Tate, Freasieohser, Crawford or McCann into Guzman (who became Stanton) and Abreu ?

I don't think Cashman is trying to make his hay trading the likes of Nova, Burnett, and Cervelli to the Pirates.

Happy to keep taking players NYY wants to cast off in return for peanuts.

fwiw, Nova & Burnett were only 1/3 of that WAR total.

 

[zyron]

To summarize the history of Pirates-Yankees trades between Huntington and Cashman (2008-present):

Pirates = 21.6 bWAR (Nova, Cervelli, Stewart, Qualls, Burnett, Erickson, Fryer, Hacker, D. McCutchen, Karstens, Tabata, Ohlendorf)

I'd say that's pretty lopsided...

Wow. a real who's who. Nova, who probably had an ERA near 6 his last couple years as a Yankee and Burnett whose ERA was over 5. That is the majority of your bWAR and is because the pirates have a great pitching coach. Like the Yanks were going to get great prospects in those trades or who else they sent over. Cervelli, Lol.

Actually, the funniest thing i just saw is the Pirates gave Cervelli a 3 year $31 million contract.

 

[storrsroars]

Actually, the funniest thing i just saw is the Pirates gave Cervelli a 3 year $31 million contract.

Over the 3 years he's been here, he's been the 6th best C in MLB in that time frame.

Personally, I wouldn't have done an extension with pretty much any catcher >30 years old, but the production was there.

Did I mention we got 9 fWAR from two seasons of Russell Martin after you guys tossed him aside? Wasn't a trade, but just another case where a Yankee castoff found success over here.

 

[zyron]

Over the 3 years he's been here, he's been the 6th best C in MLB in that time frame.

That's great, but he has been horrible the last two years and signed the contract last year. Massively overpaid. All that value is from 2015

They are going to be paying him almost 12 million in 2019. LOL.

Edit: Also, the way you set it up kept out Gary Sanchez, so he isn't sixth.

 

[storrsroars]

Edit: Also, the way you set it up kept out Gary Sanchez, so he isn't sixth.

7th then. Doesn't change the point that Bucs get more value from ex-Yankees than Yankees did.

Cervelli at least has a chance of the contract being a wash. How's that Ellsbury contract doing?

Cashman and whomever it is on staff who finally got your minor leagues to actually develop position players has done a nice job past few years. Yankees aren't as cringe-worthy as they used to be. Still need to allow beards though...

 

[Dove]

Yankees talking to DBacks about Patrick Corbin and maybe even INF Brandon Drury.

 

[ihatepants]

Well, Cashman has only made one trade with Pirates in last two years. Pirates got 5.5 WAR from Nova. Yankees got two guys in A ball, one will be 23 (Tito Polo) the other 25 (Stephen Tarpley) this year... getting kinda old, no?

To summarize the history of Pirates-Yankees trades between Huntington and Cashman (2008-present):

Pirates = 21.6 bWAR (Nova, Cervelli, Stewart, Qualls, Burnett, Erickson, Fryer, Hacker, D. McCutchen, Karstens, Tabata, Ohlendorf). Total of $65.6 mill salary, average $3.05/bWAR.

Yankees = 1.4 bWAR (Polo, Tarpley, J. Wilson, Haynes, McGehee, D. Moreno, Cayones, Hinske, R. Sanchez, D. Marte, Nady). Total of $18.3 mill salary, average $13.13/bWAR.

I'd say that's pretty lopsided...

Tito Polo was one of the pieces in the trade with the White Sox for Kahnle, Robertson and Frazier last year. Justin Wilson had a good season for the Yankees and then was turned into Luis Cessa and Chad Green, who I have a feeling the Yankees are very happy with. Do they get to count in favor of the Yankees?

While it’s true that I would say the Pirates “won” most of those trades, a lot of the guys the Yankees traded to the Pirates were players that just couldn’t handle playing in NY for one reason or another and the Yankees were kind of desperate to unload them for that reason to free up salary or a roster spot. The Pirates were actually doing the Yankees a favor for most of these deals.

I remember with Burnett specifically they were so desperate to get rid of him and free up the money that they tried to trade him for an end of his career Bobby Abreu, but Burnett used his no trade clause and they were forced to trade him to the Pirates instead.

 

[Danzz]

Did the Red Sox attend the winter meetings?