Thanos as a Renowned Anti-Villain | The Boneyard

Thanos as a Renowned Anti-Villain

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TL;DR I think he’s a poorly written villain. He did a whole lot wrong, and did so from egotistical motives. He’s much more evil than most give him credit. He kinda reminded me of a big purple Elliott Rodger. I get that that’s a hot take.

We had a thread earlier this year when Thanos came up. In it, I saw pretty consistent sentiment that supported the ever-popular “Thanos did nothing wrong” line of thinking.

Being an alive human connected to the grid in the 21st century, I had heard much about the Marvel movies; but never really cared about cheap (in the sense that they’re not particularly well written and are mainly cash grabs getting people to stare mindlessly at explosions and powers and attractive people in tights, never learning anything) superhero/comic movies and ignored them for the most part. Then Infinity War and Endgame happened, and the frenzy grew to a fever pitch. I read about MCU Thanos, and was not impressed at all regarding his motive or MO.

So, when my girl and I got Disney plus, I figured enough was enough; I’m gonna analyze this character and see what the deal is. I watched 9 movies that were relevant to Infinity War, then of course watched it and Endgame.

I posit that Thanos was never acting particularly benevolently; nor do I believe he was acting as regretfully as some scenes try to depict, such as the sacrifice of his daughter. He wasn’t trying to save anybody; and his evocation of “fairness” within an explicitly genocidal plan is despicable. He alleges/implies he is prepared to die along with everyone else with his snap; but this is just as much a cowardly way out of dealing with the actual long-term consequences (or at least long-term futility) of what murdering half the universe would entail.

In the thread I mentioned above, I posited that my favorite anti-villain, Madara Uchiha, is a far better character with far better development, far better motive, and far better overall plan. His plan was to cast a spell onto the moon so that it would hypnotize all who saw it ie the whole world, and everyone would each enter their own eternal dream-like world where there were no losers or loss; a world without the endless cycle of hatred and vengeance. This character grew up in a quasi-feudal society where clans warred constantly, such that eventually the children of his generation were thrust into combat; and brothers and sisters, sons and daughters, were lost before they could live any real life. His eight year old younger brother died in his arms when he himself was about 12. Madara wanted to end the cycle of conflict and, while his plan was to a degree illogical and understandably not accepted by the protagonists, I believe it reflected a much purer motive.

This quote sums up his motive:
“Wake up to reality! Nothing ever goes as planned in this world. The longer you live, the more you realize that in this reality, only pain, suffering, and futility exist. In this world, wherever there is light - there are also shadows. When a man learns to love, he must bear the risk of hatred. As long as the concept of winners exists, there must also be losers. The selfish desire of wanting to maintain peace causes wars, and hatred is born to protect love. Human beings are nothing but a medium of the general process of carrying out life. They do want to live in peace, but want to win it over by war because ultimately victory is what brings them peace.”

Thanos surely experienced tragedy; but his response to the whole series of events was really a rage over people not recognizing what he saw as his intellectual superiority. His idea to murder half his planet to prevent starvation was frankly child-like; a basic AI system would come up with something better (you could argue Ultron’s logic was better), and would likely be able to extrapolate the real long-term outcomes of the plan that were clouded from Thanos’ egotistical judgment. There was no evidence that it would work; and, when he was rejected and his planet eventually succumbed, he simply assumed he had been right and prosperity would have been achieved had they just listened to me and blindly accepted my brilliance. Resentment of those who had rejected him festered; “Fine, I’ll do it myself”.

Thanos frequently tried to frame what he was doing as something he didn’t particularly want to do; but had moments of clear bloodlust during the events of the MCU. While Madara displayed moments of bloodlust against those who opposed him, it made sense, because he was fighting in wars before and long after puberty; it’s all he ever knew. Thanos, on the other hand, relished in violence now and then because he refused to deal with rejection of his intelligence, and acted out of resentment towards his opponents. He took his frustrations with his species out on the rest of the universe.

I would love to discuss further, if anyone has any significant counter points. We can also discuss if Thanos’s plan would have actually worked long-term.
 

nwhoopfan

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It's been a while since I saw whichever movie first teased Thanos (the first Avengers?). IIRC his motivation originally was completely different, it was about courting Death. As in Death an entity, the idea being causing mass chaos and destruction would impress her. I believe that is a plot line straight from the comics. However that was dropped completely with no mention of it ever again.

I saw a shift in Thanos character from Infinity War to Endgame. I actually bought him as someone who believed he carried a heavy burden and was doing what needed to be done, never mind how misguided it might have been. When he learned that he had succeeded but then thwarted by the Avengers, he became petulant and hellbent on revenge, there wasn't even the tiniest shred of nobility detectable. At least that was my reaction to the two films and his characterization.
 

Chin Diesel

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TL;DR.

Thanos is a great protagonist. Most of humanity doesn't realize it yet.
 
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TL;DR I think he’s a poorly written villain. He did a whole lot wrong, and did so from egotistical motives. He’s much more evil than most give him credit. He kinda reminded me of a big purple Elliott Rodger. I get that that’s a hot take.

We had a thread earlier this year when Thanos came up. In it, I saw pretty consistent sentiment that supported the ever-popular “Thanos did nothing wrong” line of thinking.

Being an alive human connected to the grid in the 21st century, I had heard much about the Marvel movies; but never really cared about cheap (in the sense that they’re not particularly well written and are mainly cash grabs getting people to stare mindlessly at explosions and powers and attractive people in tights, never learning anything) superhero/comic movies and ignored them for the most part. Then Infinity War and Endgame happened, and the frenzy grew to a fever pitch. I read about MCU Thanos, and was not impressed at all regarding his motive or MO.

So, when my girl and I got Disney plus, I figured enough was enough; I’m gonna analyze this character and see what the deal is. I watched 9 movies that were relevant to Infinity War, then of course watched it and Endgame.

I posit that Thanos was never acting particularly benevolently; nor do I believe he was acting as regretfully as some scenes try to depict, such as the sacrifice of his daughter. He wasn’t trying to save anybody; and his evocation of “fairness” within an explicitly genocidal plan is despicable. He alleges/implies he is prepared to die along with everyone else with his snap; but this is just as much a cowardly way out of dealing with the actual long-term consequences (or at least long-term futility) of what murdering half the universe would entail.

In the thread I mentioned above, I posited that my favorite anti-villain, Madara Uchiha, is a far better character with far better development, far better motive, and far better overall plan. His plan was to cast a spell onto the moon so that it would hypnotize all who saw it ie the whole world, and everyone would each enter their own eternal dream-like world where there were no losers or loss; a world without the endless cycle of hatred and vengeance. This character grew up in a quasi-feudal society where clans warred constantly, such that eventually the children of his generation were thrust into combat; and brothers and sisters, sons and daughters, were lost before they could live any real life. His eight year old younger brother died in his arms when he himself was about 12. Madara wanted to end the cycle of conflict and, while his plan was to a degree illogical and understandably not accepted by the protagonists, I believe it reflected a much purer motive.

This quote sums up his motive:
“Wake up to reality! Nothing ever goes as planned in this world. The longer you live, the more you realize that in this reality, only pain, suffering, and futility exist. In this world, wherever there is light - there are also shadows. When a man learns to love, he must bear the risk of hatred. As long as the concept of winners exists, there must also be losers. The selfish desire of wanting to maintain peace causes wars, and hatred is born to protect love. Human beings are nothing but a medium of the general process of carrying out life. They do want to live in peace, but want to win it over by war because ultimately victory is what brings them peace.”

Thanos surely experienced tragedy; but his response to the whole series of events was really a rage over people not recognizing what he saw as his intellectual superiority. His idea to murder half his planet to prevent starvation was frankly child-like; a basic AI system would come up with something better (you could argue Ultron’s logic was better), and would likely be able to extrapolate the real long-term outcomes of the plan that were clouded from Thanos’ egotistical judgment. There was no evidence that it would work; and, when he was rejected and his planet eventually succumbed, he simply assumed he had been right and prosperity would have been achieved had they just listened to me and blindly accepted my brilliance. Resentment of those who had rejected him festered; “Fine, I’ll do it myself”.

Thanos frequently tried to frame what he was doing as something he didn’t particularly want to do; but had moments of clear bloodlust during the events of the MCU. While Madara displayed moments of bloodlust against those who opposed him, it made sense, because he was fighting in wars before and long after puberty; it’s all he ever knew. Thanos, on the other hand, relished in violence now and then because he refused to deal with rejection of his intelligence, and acted out of resentment towards his opponents. He took his frustrations with his species out on the rest of the universe.

I would love to discuss further, if anyone has any significant counter points. We can also discuss if Thanos’s plan would have actually worked long-term.

Holy cow. This is the dumbest thing I have ever read. I didn't realize that we have regressed so far in society that killing off large swaths of life is actually now an acceptable solution.

So a guy that tortured one of his daughters by replacing a part of her body every time she failed isn't in fact bad?

Wow.

He went to all that trouble to find the stupid infinity stones to solve a problem. You don't think he could have used all his intelligence, strength and determination to find a solution that was a little less traumatic?
 
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Holy cow. This is the dumbest thing I have ever read. I didn't realize that we have regressed so far in society that killing off large swaths of life is actually now an acceptable solution.

So a guy that tortured one of his daughters by replacing a part of her body every time she failed isn't in fact bad?

Wow.

He went to all that trouble to find the stupid infinity stones to solve a problem. You don't think he could have used all his intelligence, strength and determination to find a solution that was a little less traumatic?
Did you just read the title? This reads like we are in agreement; if you read my actual post.
 
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TL;DR.

Thanos is a great protagonist. Most of humanity doesn't realize it yet.
I gave you the TL;DR. Or do you mean one paragraph is too long for you?

So what do you have to say about it?
 

Chin Diesel

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Holy cow. This is the dumbest thing I have ever read. I didn't realize that we have regressed so far in society that killing off large swaths of life is actually now an acceptable solution.

So a guy that tortured one of his daughters by replacing a part of her body every time she failed isn't in fact bad?

Wow.

He went to all that trouble to find the stupid infinity stones to solve a problem. You don't think he could have used all his intelligence, strength and determination to find a solution that was a little less traumatic?

Do you have any knowledge of the history of our planet? Killing off large swaths of life is exactly why the world exists as it does.
 

Chin Diesel

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I gave you the TL;DR. Or do you mean one paragraph is too long for you?

So what do you have to say about it?

????????

I responded to your OP with my thoughts on it.
 
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Do you have any knowledge of the history of our planet? Killing off large swaths of life is exactly why the world exists as it does.

Stop being an idiot. I said acceptable solution.
 
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This whole thing is pointless. No person sees themselves as evil. Do you think Hitler thought for a second that he was evil? No! Why? Because lunatics never do. Thanos was a homicidal maniac. The movies did a piss poor job of showing that outside of him being referred to as "the mad titan". Every villain believes hes the hero of his own story. Thanos was crazy. End of story.
 
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????????

I responded to your OP with my thoughts on it.
TL;DR.

Thanos is a great protagonist. Most of humanity doesn't realize it yet.
Do you have any knowledge of the history of our planet? Killing off large swaths of life is exactly why the world exists as it does.
These are your only posts ITT. The first response is literally saying you didn’t read. This second one is pathetic as if another meteoric extinction event would be a good thing for Earth. You’ve never demonstrated yourself as being particularly bright; but go ahead and try to actually say what you think besides stating the conclusion. Let’s see your logic; I spent the time to do so.
 
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This whole thing is pointless. No person sees themselves as evil. Do you think Hitler thought for a second that he was evil? No! Why? Because lunatics never do. Thanos was a homicidal maniac. The movies did a piss poor job of showing that outside of him being referred to as "the mad titan". Every villain believes hes the hero of his own story. Thanos was crazy. End of story.
I’m talking about large swaths of people arguing this “Thanos did nothing wrong” or the general idea that he is some anti-hero/anti-villain; obviously Thanos himself in his psychopathy thought he was justified. I’m not arguing he was inconsistent as a true evil villain. There are many many people who think Thanos wasn’t particularly evil; and I’m pushing against that.

Please read next time or don’t post.
 
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It's been a while since I saw whichever movie first teased Thanos (the first Avengers?). IIRC his motivation originally was completely different, it was about courting Death. As in Death an entity, the idea being causing mass chaos and destruction would impress her. I believe that is a plot line straight from the comics. However that was dropped completely with no mention of it ever again.

I saw a shift in Thanos character from Infinity War to Endgame. I actually bought him as someone who believed he carried a heavy burden and was doing what needed to be done, never mind how misguided it might have been. When he learned that he had succeeded but then thwarted by the Avengers, he became petulant and hellbent on revenge, there wasn't even the tiniest shred of nobility detectable. At least that was my reaction to the two films and his characterization.
Regarding Death, I don’t recall any of that; did you read comics and maybe get that? Like I said I watched 9 prior supporting movies and he is very limited in his involvement outside of Guardians of the Galaxy. Frankly, I hated that movie, and may have missed some details because I wasn’t super invested; I was just trying to get through all the movies to see the protagonists develop in their own movies. I certainly don’t remember details like that from the actual Avengers storyline. In the first Avengers, literally all you see of Thanos is him smiling at the camera for a second in a brief after-credits scene; you don’t really know who he is based on that, had you not already read comics. Gamora says that “the entire time [she] ever knew Thanos, his one goal was to bring balance” by enacting his plan

I think his reaction in Endgame is exactly consistent with how he always was; raging over people rejecting what he believed was his intellectual superiority. He had many ignoble moments in Infinity War. The way his subjects address him was a pretty clear indicator of how he sees himself; and, as above, there were many moments of bloodlust inconsistent with his background or alleged “burden”. Just the first scene with him “having his fun” beating up on Hulk; looking at Thor in the eye while he slowly killed Loki; a condescending grin when Loki said he would never become a god; referring to himself as a force of destiny. What he was doing in Infinity War was entirely vengeful. It’s consistent with how he probably reacted to his initial rejection by his species.

Far more evil than people give him credit
 
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nwhoopfan

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Regarding Death, I don’t recall any of that; did you read comics and maybe get that? Like I said I watched 9 prior supporting movies and he is very limited in his involvement outside of Guardians of the Galaxy. Frankly, I hated that movie, and may have missed some details because I wasn’t super invested; I was just trying to get through all the movies to see the protagonists develop in their own movies. I certainly don’t remember details like that from the actual Avengers storyline. In the first Avengers, literally all you see of Thanos is him smiling at the camera for a second in a brief after-credits scene; you don’t really know who he is based on that, had you not already read comics. Gamora says that “the entire time [she] ever knew Thanos, his one goal was to bring balance” by enacting his plan
I only dabbled in comics a little bit. I didn't know about that plot line, but after seeing the post credit scene in Avengers w/ Thanos I did a little googling and ran across that thing about Death.
 
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I’m talking about large swaths of people arguing this “Thanos did nothing wrong” or the general idea that he is some anti-hero/anti-villain; obviously Thanos himself in his psychopathy thought he was justified. I’m not arguing he was inconsistent as a true evil villain. There are many many people who think Thanos wasn’t particularly evil; and I’m pushing against that.

Please read next time or don’t post.
Stop being so sensitive its not that serious. I agree completely. Trying to justify his actions is idiotic. What those people fail to understand is if Thanos had the infinity gauntlet and was so worried about not enough for everyone why didnt he just double the amount of everything thats needed to sustain life in the universe? There is no justifying his actions. They were short sided and evil.
 
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Stop being so sensitive its not that serious. I agree completely. Trying to justify his actions is idiotic. What those people fail to understand is if Thanos had the infinity gauntlet and was so worried about not enough for everyone why didnt he just double the amount of everything thats needed to sustain life in the universe? There is no justifying his actions. They were short sided and evil.
Don’t worry about anyone being sensitive. Appreciate your clarification. It’s pretty mind-numbing to me too that people think that Thanos was actually saving us.
 
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In the first Avengers, literally all you see of Thanos is him smiling at the camera for a second in a brief after-credits scene; you don’t really know who he is based on that, had you not already read comics
The line before he smiles to the camera is his minion telling him that going against the Avengers is "to court death". This is a nod to the comics and the inference is that his actions will be based on his courting of death from the comics. No one would get this unless they know the story from the comics as it is a big thing with his character so many expected this would be part of the storyline but it was obviously not. Whether they had plans and abandoned them or the balance storyline was always the plan is unknown.
 

the Q

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I refuse to watch endgame as it shows a bunch of egotistic jerks kill earths greatest hero for no reason

No one was a better expert as to the situation than thanos. He secured earths salvation and the narcissistic short sighted avengers guaranteed its destruction
 
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The line before he smiles to the camera is his minion telling him that going against the Avengers is "to court death". This is a nod to the comics and the inference is that his actions will be based on his courting of death from the comics. No one would get this unless they know the story from the comics as it is a big thing with his character so many expected this would be part of the storyline but it was obviously not. Whether they had plans and abandoned them or the balance storyline was always the plan is unknown.
Okay someone beat this nerdiness lmao bravo dude I totally didn’t remember that line
 
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I refuse to watch endgame as it shows a bunch of egotistic jerks kill earths greatest hero for no reason

No one was a better expert as to the situation than thanos. He secured earths salvation and the narcissistic short sighted avengers guaranteed its destruction
You’re going to have to actually support these points somehow.

And until you do I find it hilariously ironic that you’re trying a “forest for the trees” argument when the forest is clearly larger than you think
 
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I refuse to watch endgame as it shows a bunch of egotistic jerks kill earths greatest hero for no reason

No one was a better expert as to the situation than thanos. He secured earths salvation and the narcissistic short sighted avengers guaranteed its destruction
Ironic. Thanos was just another doomsday believer. He used it to justify mass murder. The Avengers believed in life, however imperfect, and the right of people to pursue their own destinies.

And you thought Thanos was the hero. YIKES!
 
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You’re going to have to actually support these points somehow.

And until you do I find it hilariously ironic that you’re trying a “forest for the trees” argument when the forest is clearly larger than you think
That person must be trolling. He cant be serious.
 

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