Starters performance in Top 25 games

[SVCBeercats]

Below are the UCONN starting five’s statistics for games played against the teams currently in the AP Top 25. These teams are Maryland, Baylor, Notre Dame, Texas, South Carolina, Florida State, Ohio State, DePaul, and Temple (2 games).

STARTERS    P/G    FG%    3FG%    FT%    R/G    A/G    A/TO    STL    BLK   MIN/G
N. Collier  21.3  68.2    41.2   82.4    8.5    1.7    1.3      18    17    32.6
K Samuelson 17.4  44.7    37.9   81.6    3.6    3.2    1.5      14     0    33.3
G. Williams 13.1  56.0    25.0   80.0    7.2    5.2    1.7      28    16    31.2
K. Nurse    10.9  36.6    40.5   86.7    2.1    3.2    1.9       8     0    30.6
S. Chong     7.3  44.1    31.6   81.8    2.3    3.3    3.3       8     1    26.7

 

[Kaizen]

Nice analysis thanks...

 

[SVCBeercats]

Nice analysis thanks...

Nice analysis thanks...

Thanks! Perhaps the data format below is easier to read.

 

[Sluconn Husky]

But...but....someone on twitter told Rebecca Lobo that Collier was benefiting from poor AAC competition.

 

[SCspur]

Napheesa Collier's efficiency is mind boggling. To think this kid was a role player in limited minutes last year with a hip injury and now she's tearing it up. Certainly one of my favorite players in WCBB.

 

[Lynx23]

Nice effort but I do have a correction FWIW. Kia only played in nine of these games, not 10. When computing her Tyler Phommachanh you included the second Temple game and divided by 10 to arrive at 10.9. Something seemed off because she had that 33 point effort against DePaul. Her average for the nine games she actually played in is 12.11. If you eliminate the South Carolina game in which she played injured, only 18 minutes, and scored just 3 points, her average is 13.25. I would think her other stats might be affected as well.

 

[Eggman]

Nice effort but I do have a correction FWIW. Kia only played in nine of these games, not 10. When computing her Tyler Phommachanh you included the second Temple game and divided by 10 to arrive at 10.9. Something seemed off because she had that 33 point effort against DePaul. Her average for the nine games she actually played in is 12.11. If you eliminate the South Carolina game in which she played injured, only 18 minutes, and scored just 3 points, her average is 13.25. I would think her other stats might be affected as well.

And if you take away her one exceptional and by far best game, (33 vs. Temple), her average is only 10.4.....they're only stats. Or, for such a small sample, you could take away best and worst game, or you do their averages per minute, or

 

[j66kicker]

Wow - all 5 starters 80+% FT shooting in 'real' games. Get fouled!!!

 

[huskeynut]

Amazing. Just amazing.

 

[Lynx23]

And if you take away her one exceptional and by far best game, (33 vs. Temple), her average is only 10.4.....they're only stats. Or, for such a small sample, you could take away best and worst game, or you do their averages per minute, or

I understand your point where the South Carolina game was concerned because she did play and I expected a comment such as this but you really can't include the Temple game she didn't play in as her stats then have no validity. My argument would also apply to "minutes played per game" and "assists per game". As far as taking away stats from her best game, why would you do that unless you're going to do it for every other player? A professor of mine once said that a stat is a measure meant to be manipulated. I think we'd both agree he was correct. In any event, the original poster is to be commended for his or her effort. There is enough criticism on this board and my post wasn't intended to contribute to it.

 

[JudgeSCR]

Thanks! Perhaps the data format below is easier to read.
View attachment 20086

I love Gabby and KLS and understand that the core four help and make each other better. But looking at that chart I just don't understand how anyone could make the case that Collier is not the most deserving of All-American recognition. On the best team, she performs the best against the best competition. Against top 25 teams she leads the team in scoring, field goal percentage, rebounds, blocks and is second in steals. Sooo, she doesn't make All-American how?

 

[Go/huskies]

I love Gabby and KLS and understand that the core four help and make each other better. But looking at that chart I just don't understand how anyone could make the case that Collier is not the most deserving of All-American recognition. On the best team, she performs the best against the best competition. Against top 25 teams she leads the team in scoring, field goal percentage, rebounds, blocks and is second in steals. Sooo, she doesn't make All-American how?

Because Gabby and Lou are the media darlings of the team. I wonder how many players in the Nation were 2nd in there conference in scoring and close to leading the country in field-goal percentage but didn't make All American status.

 

[SVCBeercats]

Nice effort but I do have a correction FWIW. Kia only played in nine of these games, not 10. When computing her Tyler Phommachanh you included the second Temple game and divided by 10 to arrive at 10.9. Something seemed off because she had that 33 point effort against DePaul. Her average for the nine games she actually played in is 12.11. If you eliminate the South Carolina game in which she played injured, only 18 minutes, and scored just 3 points, her average is 13.25. I would think her other stats might be affected as well.

Thanks! I remembered Chong played nine game but forgot about Kia.

 

[SVCBeercats]

I understand your point where the South Carolina game was concerned because she did play and I expected a comment such as this but you really can't include the Temple game she didn't play in as her stats then have no validity. My argument would also apply to "minutes played per game" and "assists per game". As far as taking away stats from her best game, why would you do that unless you're going to do it for every other player? A professor of mine once said that a stat is a measure meant to be manipulated. I think we'd both agree he was correct. In any event, the original poster is to be commended for his or her effort. There is enough criticism on this board and my post wasn't intended to contribute to it.

The stats most affected were points per game and minutes per game. The other stats changed only by 1 or 2 tenths.

 

[SVCBeercats]

Because Gabby and Lou are the media darlings of the team. I wonder how many players in the Nation were 2nd in there conference in scoring and close to leading the country in field-goal percentage but didn't make All American status.

How many game tapes do coaches and journalists actually view? How many actually watch tape focusing just on what a given player is accomplishing? All-American for the most part is a beauty and PR hyperbole contest. There are 2, 3, many 4 wunderkinds. After that not so obvious without hours of game film watching. It would be interesting to find a list of all the All-Americans, then see how they did as pros. Also to see which all-pro players were not All-Americans.

 

[eebmg]

Because Gabby and Lou are the media darlings of the team. I wonder how many players in the Nation were 2nd in there conference in scoring and close to leading the country in field-goal percentage but didn't make All American status.

Since the media are human, that is correct. Earlier in the season, when KLS had her incredible streak and Gabby had Jay Bilas tweeting "best overall player", the accolades were well deserved. Napheesa was so cool and efficient that she fell under the radar. In addition, the interpretation was often that she got her opportunities since the defenses focused most on KLS, Gabby and Kia. To be honest, I felt this way most of the season.

It is only in this run where her abilities and AA credentials have really been demonstrated. In fact, when others have slumped at times (Lou and to a lesser extent Gabby) and Kia has her injury, she has emerged as this teams MVP imho and a top 5 player in the country. It takes time for this to propagate to the media.

Finally, I am always happy when our players are underestimated before the tournament (has not happened often) . A little extra edge is great.

 

[Ralph]

It seemed to me that Gabby was shooting something like 80% of free throws for the first part of the season, and I thought that was a huge improvement over last year, she must have worked on that. But for the second part it seemed like she was shooting 50%. Your post for the top games, most of which were early would seem to confirm that. I have no idea why her % would go down. I certainly am not competent to analyze her form or anything else. Maybe she is just getting a little tired in the legs. Would be great if she got that one part of her game back on track. (What a nit picker, she is the most all around baller and most athletic and most Gabulous.) Just a small concern if in the tourney teams are looking for someone to foul late in a game. Would love to see all 5 shooting over 80% and be able to laugh at opponents and say, pick your poison. I guess that also goes for Crystal, if Geno wants her in late as a ball handler. Was she a good free throw shooter in high school? Sometimes you see kids who shot 75% in high struggle with free throws in college. Can't be better defense. Maybe just more pressure, maybe legs are tired from having to play so much harder.

 

[hoophuskee]

The efg% for all five starters is over 50%. Though counting a team like Depaul who quit during the game and counting Temple who is isn't that good inflates the numbers big time. If you are going to look at the top 15 teams and add tulane numbers would be different. It will be interesting to see if a team will try to test that and throw some type of gimmick defense at them and take a chance on the others. Oddly Lou has the worst efg% of the 5. Collier has been amazing.

EFG% using OP's teams:
Collier 70.08% (Just think when you have a 60% efg% you are considered off the charts. LeBron's and Curry's best year. At 70% DeAndre Jordan has been 70% but that is because he basically takes shots around 6 - 7 feet from the bakset and mostly dunks.

Gabby-- 55.29%
Chong-- 53.49%
Nurse-- 53.21%
Lou-- 52.96%

Take away the DePaul game and the two Temple Games and add the Tulane game in which these games we had a chance for a close game or lose at least during the games there was some type of threat:

EFG%
Collier: 64.36%
Chong: 53.45%
Gabby: 50%
Lou: 47.32%
Nurse: 42.86%

**** Nurse was poor because the start of the season she was awful in terms of efficiency fearing she had to do too much. One she settled into her role - numbers were different. And Lou had one significant awful shooting game vs USC.

Take away the one bad game- Lou is is 51% efg%.
Take away the two bad gamea- Nurse s 52.56% efg%.

 

[hoophuskee]

I love Gabby and KLS and understand that the core four help and make each other better. But looking at that chart I just don't understand how anyone could make the case that Collier is not the most deserving of All-American recognition. On the best team, she performs the best against the best competition. Against top 25 teams she leads the team in scoring, field goal percentage, rebounds, blocks and is second in steals. Sooo, she doesn't make All-American how?

You can do it vs Gabby and vs Lou-- though I don't agree with it (by the way - on anoter trhead I believe UCONN should get - deserves THREE a/a's for the top ten)-- but you can do it. A poster on another thread mentioned he thought the best player on the team was Gabby. And on offense the poster thought Gabby was more important than the numbers. Because if it were not for her passing and setting up maybe the 2nd pass or 3rd pass - the offense wouldn't click. Gabby has the most assists on the only undefeated Div 1 team in basketball. How much is Collier's getting a pass from "mostly because of Collier" or "mostly because of Gabby?"

Add in Lou. She is 6'3. Another poster brought up on that same thread I think - that Lou forces the defense out to guard her. How often - especially lately will her defender drop off of her? They do drop off of her- and lose her sometimes- sure. But often not so much. She is 6'3 and has a high release. Everyone uses smaller players to guard her-- if they are too small- your ability to help and recover on defense will have minimal impact on her. You just have to pray she misses if you try to significantly help and recover. Thus Lou changes the strategy of a defense (and indirectly an offense) too by her mere presence.

Case in point- go back to the ND game. Muffett's comments-- she mentioned that she had thought of playing zone but decided against it. 1.) Why do you think she decided against it? 2.) What would have been the primary cause for Muffett deciding not to play zone (by playing zone you can squeeze Gabby and Collier a bit)? 3.) By having to go man-to-man listen to her presser. She said she had to take out Mabrey and use Young to defend Lou. Individually Young could be considered better than Mabrey but ND was trying to get the ball inside to Turner. Mabrey is better at forcing the defense outside thus more room could have been given for Turner. 4.) Lou's presence and just a short time during the game caused Muffett to pull Mabrey.

The point is that we see the obvious. We can see for example the very bigs from the power teams have to let Gabby shoot the 12-15 footer. Then if she hits a couple - that opens up her drive even more. If she isn't hitting she still can make plays because she is so much quicker. The thing is - the floor is opened up a bit more because of Lou.

And as far as Gabby - my God - her defense leads to how much transition? Think of all the easy baskets because of her defense and rebounding then setting up the break. There is no way to measure that imo. In our "who is best debates" Gabby is awesome. Lou is awesome. Collier is awesome. So many variables. I lean towards Collier because I have an efficiency bias. Though I don't think for example Wilt in NBA as GOAT. Anyhow - I suppose the reason why we are so good this year is that even the coaches can't develop a plan to stop the synergy UCONN has exhibited. I wonder if a team is going to be brazen enough "to challenge Lou" in the NCAA's and dare her to beat them instead of sticking one player and occupying that defender on her and then not using that defender for much help. or maybe try to play a zone or gimmick defense - and see if Lou can beat you. Maybe if in 1st half her shot is off- "challenge her" to make shots in the 2nd half of a big game?

 

[CocoHusky]

I love Gabby and KLS and understand that the core four help and make each other better. But looking at that chart I just don't understand how anyone could make the case that Collier is not the most deserving of All-American recognition. On the best team, she performs the best against the best competition. Against top 25 teams she leads the team in scoring, field goal percentage, rebounds, blocks and is second in steals. Sooo, she doesn't make All-American how?

It is precisely because you have to look at the numbers because so much of Collier's game is understated, quiet, & efficient. When Gabby soars for a rebound or KLS splashes a three ball you remember it because it momentarily takes your breath away. Collier is capable of taking your breath away but most she beats you and hardly cracks a smile or break a sweat. Collier is the Easy Button of WCBB.

 

[BroadwayVa]

It is precisely because you have to look at the numbers because so much of Collier's game is understated, quiet, & efficient. When Gabby soars for a rebound or KLS splashes a three ball you remember it because it momentarily takes your breath away. Collier is capable of taking your breath away but most she beats you and hardly cracks a smile or break a sweat. Collier is the Easy Button of WCBB.

Napheesa Collier, both you and I were her cheerleaders starting the season--but I never ever could have expected at 6 ft 1 inch she'd go against so many bigs--and score so effective ly.
You are correct in that she is quiet , mostly, she and KLS (roomies) grin and laugh when they do something memorable---Napheesa's biggest cheering section starts with Katie Lou. The 3 , Gabby, KLS, Collier, appear to be having a great time when they are tearing the hearts out of other teams. Just nasty people!!!
Push that button more often.

 

[winlots]

Below are the UCONN starting five’s statistics for games played against the teams currently in the AP Top 25. These teams are Maryland, Baylor, Notre Dame, Texas, South Carolina, Florida State, Ohio State, DePaul, and Temple (2 games).

STARTERS    P/G    FG%    3FG%    FT%    R/G    A/G    A/TO    STL    BLK   MIN/G
N. Collier  21.3  68.2    41.2   82.4    8.5    1.7    1.3      18    17    32.6
K Samuelson 17.4  44.7    37.9   81.6    3.6    3.2    1.5      14     0    33.3
G. Williams 13.1  56.0    25.0   80.0    7.2    5.2    1.7      28    16    31.2
K. Nurse    10.9  36.6    40.5   86.7    2.1    3.2    1.9       8     0    30.6
S. Chong     7.3  44.1    31.6   81.8    2.3    3.3    3.3       8     1    26.7

SVCB: VERY INTERESTING DATA AND THREAD - APPRECIATED

 

[Eggman]

This is for lynx23.

You were discounting the So. Carolina game because she only played so many minutes. Why? She played. Do you know who else had injuries and played and had lousy games? I just figured if you're adjusting the stats, then I would also. In some places when figuring averages, the top one or two and the bottom one or two games may not count, so as not to include abberations, more important in small samples-that's what I was suggesting, without taking the energy to discount her lowest game. Otherwise, you can't just pick and choose whichever games you want to, in order to make a point. Fake news, anyone?
Oh, yes, of course, do the same for everyone, but we were just talking about Kia. And yes, of course, do not count games not played, but do count injuries, if played with. Complete disclosure.