September non-UConn recruiting thread

[HuskyFan1125]

UCLA snagged a post player out of Texas.

 

[Rooster C.]

With A'ja Wilson, one could say she had fortune that Wilson grew up in her program's backyard. But one might also argue with logic that SC wouldn't have gotten the class it did including Wilson, had the 2013-14 team not had the success it had winning 29 games, rising into the top 10 of the rankings, and winning the program's first ever SEC regular-season title and NCAAT #1 Seed.

I totally agree with all the points you made about Staley - a great player, a great coach, and a now a great recruiter.
Having said that wasn't A.Coates (a native S.Carolina player) a big part of that success ? And isn't there a statue of A.Wilson outside the stadium at S.Carolina? That statue is both a recruiting tool and a recognition of her contribution to the program. It only validates my two main points that IF all other factors are equal (coaches/schools continually in the top 25) then the difference is getting a top talent to stay in their home state and that the ONE KEY PLAYER can really make a program. Obviously you have to surround that player with good talent(good - not great) AND you have to coach that team to some success post season by the time they are a junior/senior (sweet 16). Think what FSU could become if J.Barker stayed in state? How far along would Miami be if S.Fowles had stayed home? If M.Moore had gone to Georgia or Georgia Tech?
I believe there are many very good coaches out there (although not many with Staley's pedigree!) but it begins at home. Let's see how the coaches at Miss.State, Vandy,N.C,and Duke fare over the next few years. Virginia is really struggling because Thompson hasn't landed that one big player yet and things don't look good for her. Same with Whelan at Minnesota.Think what Bueckers could have done for her program! Or M.NNaji in 2022? (She did land A.Battle in 2022 so that's something at least).

 

[cancontent]

I totally agree with all the points you made about Staley - a great player, a great coach, and a now a great recruiter.
Having said that wasn't A.Coates (a native S.Carolina player) a big part of that success ? And isn't there a statue of A.Wilson outside the stadium at S.Carolina? That statue is both a recruiting tool and a recognition of her contribution to the program. It only validates my two main points that IF all other factors are equal (coaches/schools continually in the top 25) then the difference is getting a top talent to stay in their home state and that the ONE KEY PLAYER can really make a program. Obviously you have to surround that player with good talent(good - not great) AND you have to coach that team to some success post season by the time they are a junior/senior (sweet 16). Think what FSU could become if J.Barker stayed in state? How far along would Miami be if S.Fowles had stayed home? If M.Moore had gone to Georgia or Georgia Tech?
I believe there are many very good coaches out there (although not many with Staley's pedigree!) but it begins at home. Let's see how the coaches at Miss.State, Vandy,N.C,and Duke fare over the next few years. Virginia is really struggling because Thompson hasn't landed that one big player yet and things don't look good for her. Same with Whelan at Minnesota.Think what Bueckers could have done for her program! Or M.NNaji in 2022? (She did land A.Battle in 2022 so that's something at least).

The next 2 - 3 years will be important for Whelan I believe. I know she's been aggressive with some Canadian prospects over the last little while. If they have a rough season this year though, it could put her recruiting back a bit.

 

[Reypl21]

I'm interested in seeing what happens with the Iowa program after Caitlin Clark leaves.

They've been pretty good before she arrived. They were a 2 seed in the 2019 NCAA tournament.

 

[triaddukefan]

They've been pretty good before she arrived. They were a 2 seed in the 2019 NCAA tournament.

Yep.. and the next year without #10.... they finished in the top 3 of the Big 10.

 

[Lorcan]

Yeah. Iowa has had a long string of good players from Samantha Logic to Bethany Doolittle, to Megan Gustafson, to Kathleen Doyle. Clark may turn out to be the best of them, but Megan Gustafson had a heck of a career in her time there. She was even named the USWBA National Player of the Year in 2019. I’d wager that if Ionescu wasn’t getting all the media hype more people might’ve voted for Gustafson. Iowa will be alright with Lisa Bluder at the helm.

 

[SECbbfan24]

Guessing Miami or Texas bound

 

[Gamecockfan77]

I totally agree with all the points you made about Staley - a great player, a great coach, and a now a great recruiter.
Having said that wasn't A.Coates (a native S.Carolina player) a big part of that success ? And isn't there a statue of A.Wilson outside the stadium at S.Carolina? That statue is both a recruiting tool and a recognition of her contribution to the program. It only validates my two main points that IF all other factors are equal (coaches/schools continually in the top 25) then the difference is getting a top talent to stay in their home state and that the ONE KEY PLAYER can really make a program. Obviously you have to surround that player with good talent(good - not great) AND you have to coach that team to some success post season by the time they are a junior/senior (sweet 16). Think what FSU could become if J.Barker stayed in state? How far along would Miami be if S.Fowles had stayed home? If M.Moore had gone to Georgia or Georgia Tech?
I believe there are many very good coaches out there (although not many with Staley's pedigree!) but it begins at home. Let's see how the coaches at Miss.State, Vandy,N.C,and Duke fare over the next few years. Virginia is really struggling because Thompson hasn't landed that one big player yet and things don't look good for her. Same with Whelan at Minnesota.Think what Bueckers could have done for her program! Or M.NNaji in 2022? (She did land A.Battle in 2022 so that's something at least).

I think it is important to note that Staley won the SEC before Wilson came in the scene. Coates was a freshman rotation player on that SEC champ team but didn't regularly start until her junior season.

The program's foundation was laid by over achieving teams without highly rated players.

that success helped them land Wilson which lead to more success and then the transfers which then let Staley improve her recruiting profile farther.

but Tiffany Mitchell, All American, and solid blue collar players like Walker, Sutton, Ibiam, welxh, etc were the true pivots. None of them were necessarily blue chips. Coates was I think in the 20s. Mitchell just inside the 50 I think.

Obviously Wilson was very important and was a key to unlocking the next level. But it wasn't built around her.

 

[Rooster C.]

Obviously Wilson was very important and was a key to unlocking the next level. But it wasn't built around her.

That WAS my point though. That the difference between being a top level program CONTINUOUSLY being amongst the top 8 year-after-year and being a very good team that is in the top-25 most years and not achieving that upper echelon is recruiting that ONE KEY PLAYER from your home region who takes a team to the sweet-16 or beyond and shines a national spotlight on your program.
Again, you'll get no argument from me about how great a coach Staley is but most programs start with little talent and a good coach is able to have a year or two of success that way. FSU has a very good coach who has had a lot of success over an extended period but has been unable to break in to that upper echelon. To make it to the next level CONSISTENTLY takes that one player. A player like A.Wilson.

 

[Rooster C.]

Guessing Miami or Texas bound

What makes you say that? Is it just a hunch/educated guess or do you have some inside info?

 

[CocoHusky]

I think it is important to note that Staley won the SEC before Wilson came in the scene. Coates was a freshman rotation player on that SEC champ team but didn't regularly start until her junior season.
The program's foundation was laid by o er achieving teams without highly rated players.
that success helped them land Wilson which lead to more success and then the transfers which then let Staley improve her recruiting profile farther.
but Tiffany Mitchell, All American, and solid blue collar players like Walker, Sutton, Ibiam, welxh, etc were the true pivots. None of them were necessarily blue chips. Coates was I think in the 20s. Mitchell just inside the 50 I think.
Obviously Wilson was very important and was a key to unlocking the next level. But it wasn't built around her.

A notable blue chip miss for SC and potential foundation piece prior to Wilson's arrival was instate product and Columbia's own Xylinda McDaniel. Those Spring Valley teams with Asia Dozier were always a tough out at the Beach Ball classic every year. X would certainly have accelerated the program I'm just not sure it would have resulted in more Championship for SC because that was TBS- The Breanna Stewart era. X was also on the Diamond Deshields led UNC team that knocked #1 seed SC out of the tournament in 2014 but she did help much because she had an awful game shooting Ofer and scoring 1 point in 31 minutes of play.

 

[DaBball]

Stanford landed a commitment from 5-7 PG Talana Lepolo, who should really rise in the rankings after a strong showing:

 

[Gamecockfan77]

That WAS my point though. That the difference between being a top level program CONTINUOUSLY being amongst the top 8 year-after-year and being a very good team that is in the top-25 most years and not achieving that upper echelon is recruiting that ONE KEY PLAYER from your home region who takes a team to the sweet-16 or beyond and shines a national spotlight on your program.
Again, you'll get no argument from me about how great a coach Staley is but most programs start with little talent and a good coach is able to have a year or two of success that way. FSU has a very good coach who has had a lot of success over an extended period but has been unable to break in to that upper echelon. To make it to the next level CONSISTENTLY takes that one player. A player like A.Wilson.

South Carolina's first all American and SEC POY under Staley was Tiffany Mitchell.

Wilson was more of a confirming player.

 

[Rooster C.]

South Carolina's first all American and SEC POY under Staley was Tiffany Mitchell.

Wilson was more of a confirming player.

Again, I'm not saying Mitchell wasn't a very good player but Coates led to Wilson and that's what led to their continued success at a very high level that goes on today.

 

[Ekrauth24]

Staley did bring her recognition as a player to South Carolina - she was regarded as one of the if not THE face of women's basketball at the time, based on what she accomplished at the collegiate, professional, and Olympic levels. She started out by pulling the consensus #2 behind Griner in Kelsey Bone out of Texas - although Bone stayed in Columbia for just her freshman season, it showed Staley's abilities as a recruiter initially.

But Staley was not a big recruiter in the southern and southeast regions, much less on a national scale at that point. Temple was more of a regional program, and truly South Carolina was as well despite being in the SEC.

But getting to the gist of the question - some coaches recruit their way to successful seasons, and others coach their way to successful recruiting. Staley's case was more of the latter, by far. She had her very first class that had as many as three 4-stars in the 2012 cycle, and got her first McDonald's AA (after Bone) in the 2013 cycle. Her teams won 10 games, then 14 (with Bone), then 18, then 25 and 25 for the 2011-12 and 2012-13 seasons. In just 5 seasons at SC. It wasn't eye-popping success, but it was steady and consistent.

Beyond Bone, the best-rated talent Staley's staff were pulling were mostly in-state talent: Welch, Sessions, Dozier, Coates. Mitchell was out of NC but grew up idolizing Staley, so it was Staley's celebrity as a former player as much as her coaching ability for guards that got Tiffany. Same could be said for Ieasia Walker out of NY, which like Bianca Cuevas-Moore in 2014 was a more familiar recruiting ground for Staley from her Temple days. But still, with a roster that only had a handful of lower 4-star talent and 3-star role players, Staley's staff built the program into a consistent winner and NCAAT participant, that was in the top 25 and finishing with winning SEC records.

And while South Carolina had experienced similar successes in the past, it hadn't done so for any long stretches while a SEC member - and especially struggled against conference foes - so Staley was earning her stripes as an up-and-coming WBB coach, in addition to her name recognition as a former player. With A'ja Wilson, one could say she had fortune that Wilson grew up in her program's backyard. But one might also argue with logic that SC wouldn't have gotten the class it did including Wilson, had the 2013-14 team not had the success it had winning 29 games, rising into the top 10 of the rankings, and winning the program's first ever SEC regular-season title and NCAAT #1 Seed.

By that point, Staley had established herself as a head coach enough to be in the running for MANY top prospects, and had top rated prep prospects such as Ieshia Small, Kaela Davis, Allisha Gray, Te'a Cooper, etc. who had the Gamecocks in their finalist lists, but chose to go elsewhere (although a few still ended up in Columbia indirectly). After the 2014 cycle and 2015 Final Four - plus two more SEC regular-season and tournament titles - the recruiting has burst wide open, even as the success on the courts have continued. In Staley's first 8 cycles at South Carolina, her staff recruited and signed 5 5-star rated prospects (Bone's class was before Hoopgurlz started using star ratings, but her grade was 5-star equivalent) - 4 of those came in the 2014 cycle. In the 6 cycles since, they've signed 16.....

I think the job she did at Temple gets overlooked and really showed how capable of a coach she could be. She wasn’t able to recruit there on an elite level obviously. The program had never really been successful and had only one NCAA tourney appearance in its history and she took them there six times in her eight years.

 

[Gamecockfan77]

Again, I'm not saying Mitchell wasn't a very good player but Coates led to Wilson and that's what led to their continued success at a very high level that goes on today.

she wasn't a very good player, she was an All American and SEC POY.

what's not correct is that South Carolina wasn't much and then Wilson came along and create

At least I do not think that's right.

Dawn built a program, which is why she landed Wilson, which helped sustain what was built and take it higher.

it's a pretty nuanced statement but makes sense to me.

 

[Rooster C.]

what's not correct is that South Carolina wasn't much and then Wilson came along and create

Well my friend, that's not at all what I said. Nor was I casting any shade on Mitchell.
I was talking about the difference between a program in the top-25 and a program that is in the top-8 year after year. I was talking about what it takes to become an elite program and how a program gets there. There is success before that key player comes along but not at that elite level.
Think the difference between an FSU and Notre Dame or Louisville.
FSU is a very good program with a very good coach but not an elite program. I'm sure they've had their share of all-americans as well.
This is one of those conversations best had in person I think. I'm just happy that there are so many intelligent and passionate WBB fans on here that I can exchange these opinions with.

 

[JDuro]

she wasn't a very good player, she was an All American and SEC POY.

what's not correct is that South Carolina wasn't much and then Wilson came along and create

At least I do not think that's right.

Dawn built a program, which is why she landed Wilson, which helped sustain what was built and take it higher.

it's a pretty nuanced statement but makes sense to me.

If there’s one single linchpin player that led to South Carolina’s current level of success I would say it was Lisa Welch. I believe she was the player who made this program attractive to Mitchell, Coates, and Wilson. And if you remember how charismatic Welch was, she was likely Dawn’s best recruiter when those girls were on campus for their officials.

 

[Gamecockfan77]

If there’s one single linchpin player that led to South Carolina’s current level of success I would say it was Lisa Welch. I believe she was the player who made this program attractive to Mitchell, Coates, and Wilson. And if you remember how charismatic Welch was, she was likely Dawn’s best recruiter when those girls were on campus for their officials

I'm just saying that Dawn built to a championship before Wilson arrived and that Championship had as much to do with changing the profile of SC as a recruiting force as anything.

Mitchell and Welch were absolutely both key to winning that championship.

Mitchell is the first great SC player in the Staley era, though there were some other all conference players.

she's been overshadowed by Wilson and give Wilson her due, she's the greater player no doubt. But not the first great player.

if Wilson hadn't come would USC have won a title in same window? Probably not, but there may have well been other great players coming in.

I think what makes South Carolina a top 5 program is being able to recruit to at least the Rockies though. A'ja helped there, but for me Harris and Herbert-Harriman and Cooke, Boston, etc and players like that are the key to sustaining where we are. Until you aren't dependent on a run of local or regional talent you aren't going to consistently be in the mix.

SC talent is cycling up but at the end of the day SC probably has to land more than just the locals even if they are too 5 or top 30.

 

[Rooster C.]

I don't know why so many here keep misconstruing what my point was. * sigh * Oh,well. I can only assume I'm not doing a very good job of explaining it. Let me try one last time by going in the reverse order. And even if I believe SC is the exception(I don't)then that's what they would be - the exception. I was making a general point(s) about WBB overall.

#1) Top tier teams, which I define as those PERPETUALLY in the top 8 of all programs are able to stay there year after year because they are able to recruit top players from everywhere - including the best local talent (although that's no longer absolutely necessary for success).
#2) To first get to that level they have to attract that first great player LOCALLY/Regionally - and this is the gist of my point here. You can't make the leap to elite level w/o that first great local player.
#3) To attract that first player you need to have SOME success and (this is very important also) you need to get some national attention/spotlight through tournament success (sweet 16). Most people do not see or pay attention to a team/player until they reach that level.

That elite team used to be Tennessee but has been replaced by SC. Although Welch was from SC she wasn't that program-changing player. Neither was Mitchell who disappeared in their sweet 16 appearance - but freshman Coates scored 22 points and got 10 boards in a losing effort. But HOW or WHO got Wilson to remain local doesn't matter. The fact is she did stay local, she was that program-changing talent, and you need that one local player (combined with very good coaching and a solid supporting cast - which the other top 25 teams have as well) to make the leap to that elite level.

 

[CompSci87]

Isn't this thread supposed to be about current recruiting?

 

[FormerCTrez]

Guessing Miami or Texas bound

I watched this video twice, and chuckled to myself each time. And I’ll reserve some of the thoughts that initially popped to the forefront of my brain. However, while I don’t know all the rules of basketball, I do believe that intentionally taunting one’s opponent will get you a technical, and possible a place on the bench - beside your coach. But, maybe I’m wrong .......

 

[cancontent]

I watched this video twice, and chuckled to myself each time. And I’ll reserve some of the thoughts that initially popped to the forefront of my brain. However, while I don’t know all the rules of basketball, I do believe that intentionally taunting one’s opponent will get you a technical, and possible a place on the bench - beside your coach. But, maybe I’m wrong .......

I don't think you're wrong, however the era these players are coming up in is different than ours. This type of posturing is celebrated on social media. Just look at the responses people post when they see mix tape videos on these players. Also, I suspect some leverage this to help build their brand and following. With NIL opportunities available, growing their fanbase is to their advantage.

And from what I've learned through my daughter's years, what's shared between players makes what we probably experienced in high school seem like a cake walk. It's a different dynamic we have to take into consideration I believe.

At the same time, the players do need to be allowed to celebrate and show their passion. What's considered overboard for us may seem minor to others. I've had this debate with my daughter many times. It's a generational thing I guess.

 

[Rooster C.]

You're right. I've seen a fired up player get a tech for merely staring and clapping their hands in the direction of an opponent. And they weren't "up in their face" when they did it.

 

[Sluconn Husky]