Red Sox 2021 Thread

[HuskyHawk]

Ok Red Sox fans, how are you feeling? I really think the team has added some depth, which was really needed. They are better built to withstand injuries, or Covid absences. Last season they lost the whole pitching staff. Roster analysis in the Herald.

The left side of the infield is elite, and I expect Devers to return to form. No worries there. 2B has been a trouble spot for years since Pedroia went down. I think this is the year Chavis either wins the spot and provides ok D and + power, or proves he isn't the answer. Fortunately the Sox stocked up on utility guys, including Enrique Hernandez, who signed a fairly big deal for this winter, and may be looking to show he's a full time player. Jeter Downs looms in the minors and could force his way up.
At 1B, Dalbec has power, and his defense is good. He has to stop striking out. That's a problem for Chavis as well, and he is likely the backup at 1B. I think they really lack a steady guy at 1B who can get good at bats consistently. It's a week spot, but one that could become a positive if Dalbec figures it out.

OF I look for JD Martinez to get back to something more like normal. He will mostly DH. Still that's a big boost. Verdugo proved a solid option in RF, and reminds me a bit of Dwight Evans. Franchy Cordero could break out, or could flop. He seems to have the talent. He's on the Covid list right now. Renfroe is another guy with power who hasn't quite put it all together. Anybody sensing a theme? Unless they hit on these gambles, it's possible one of the several utility infield guys lands in the OF. That's how Mookie ended up in RF being blocked by Pedroia, so if Chavis figures it out playing OF, fine with me. Missing a true CF right now, maybe JBJ returns.

Pitching. The theme remains the same. Stocking up on talented arms that have so far not lived up to their promise. If Sale was healthy, that would change things. Maybe he will be by summer. If eRod is truly healthy after his Covid related heart problems, he's a stable force. Eovaldi another talent without results. They rave about Richards' sinker, maybe he takes a leap. Houck looked promising last year. Perez offers depth until Sale returns, or if somebody falters. The bullpen looks like it is decent, with no clear cut closer. I don't trust Barnes in that role. Maybe Sawamura shows he can do it.

Overall they could surprise if these young, talented guys take a step and JD, Sale and Devers return to form. But they could also finish last again. I get the strategy. If a few of these players become solid players, the future suddenly looks pretty solid. It's a bridge year that can't be written off completely.

 

[the Q]

The left side is beyond awful defensively.

The worst in mlb.

A 3B at ss and a dh at 3B


The Red Sox were a historically bad defense last year and lost jbj. Second base is an upgrade defensively.

They did add some valuable depth at utility spots and the rotation. They didn’t have 4 full time starters at the beginning of 2020. Now they have seabold and houk at 6/7 starter spots.

This teams ceiling is probably around the 85-87 win mark though.

 

[HuskyHawk]

The left side is beyond awful defensively.

The worst in mlb.

A 3B at ss and a dh at 3B


The Red Sox were a historically bad defense last year and lost jbj. Second base is an upgrade defensively.

They did add some valuable depth at utility spots and the rotation. They didn’t have 4 full time starters at the beginning of 2020. Now they have seabold and houk at 6/7 starter spots.

This teams ceiling is probably around the 85-87 win mark though.

Devers was bad last year, but wasn't that bad the prior two years. Seems he is working on it.
Red Sox' Devers focused on getting defensive | Red Sox | unionleader.com

Bogaerts isn't that awful on D, even if he's not a + defender.

As MLB Network’s Brian Kenny put it Tuesday night, “the defensive metrics do not like [Bogaerts]. Maybe it’s accurate, maybe not quite. But otherwise he would be a WAR leader as well.”

Red Sox’ Xander Bogaerts named third-best shortstop in baseball by MLB Network – Blogging the Red Sox

I think you're right with those win totals, but I could see it being higher or lower. I know that's obvious, but this team is very hard to predict.

 

[the Q]

Devers was bad last year, but wasn't that bad the prior two years. Seems he is working on it.
Red Sox' Devers focused on getting defensive | Red Sox | unionleader.com

Bogaerts isn't that awful on D, even if he's not a + defender.

Red Sox’ Xander Bogaerts named third-best shortstop in baseball by MLB Network – Blogging the Red Sox

I think you're right with those win totals, but I could see it being higher or lower. I know that's obvious, but this team is very hard to predict.

It’s been the worst defensive left side of the infield like 3 years running.

Doubt it’s a coincidence

 

[Chin Diesel]

Lifelong Six fans since late 70's

Currently I couldn't name five Sox players.

The roster is uninteresting up and down the lineup.

 

[The Viking]

Crazy roster, loaded with guys who play multiple positions. Guys who could hit jackpot or flop. Pitchers who we think are healthy but not sure. Their best starting pitcher won't be back til July-August and how will he do when he returns?
The Bogaerts thing confuses the hell out of me. He always seems like he's a good defender when I watch but the ratings always crush him. I don't get it.
Anyway, I have no idea at all where they will finish up...so that kind of makes it interesting.

I think either next offseason or the one after is where they will have plenty of money to spend and a minor league system that will finally be regarded as good. Just have to go through 1-2 more seasons of blah before we get there.

I do like Bloom and trust in his process. Anyone who can go grab a Jacob Wallace for 2 months of Kevin Pillar knows what the hell he is doing. And I think the Benintendi trade will look really good once we get the 3 PBTNL and get a minor league season under our belt.

Los Angeles Dodgers East is what he's trying to copy from his old boss Friedman. Just have to be a little patient to get there.

 

[Husky25]

They are down a lot of material. I don't really have any expectations other than a better pitching staff than what I'd be able to see at Dunkin' Donuts Park.

Last season was just so strange. With no fans, there was no energy. It absolutely emphasized that games are too long and the nickel and dime fixes aren't working fast enough.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Crazy roster, loaded with guys who play multiple positions. Guys who could hit jackpot or flop. Pitchers who we think are healthy but not sure. Their best starting pitcher won't be back til July-August and how will he do when he returns?
The Bogaerts thing confuses the hell out of me. He always seems like he's a good defender when I watch but the ratings always crush him. I don't get it.
Anyway, I have no idea at all where they will finish up...so that kind of makes it interesting.

I think either next offseason or the one after is where they will have plenty of money to spend and a minor league system that will finally be regarded as good. Just have to go through 1-2 more seasons of blah before we get there.

I do like Bloom and trust in his process. Anyone who can go grab a Jacob Wallace for 2 months of Kevin Pillar knows what the hell he is doing. And I think the Benintendi trade will look really good once we get the 3 PBTNL and get a minor league season under our belt.

Los Angeles Dodgers East is what he's trying to copy from his old boss Friedman. Just have to be a little patient to get there.

I think he’s building the Rays, but with money. Meaning a couple of actual stars. They keep reloading that team even with no money. They trade guys get loads of prospects and keep it going. Great at developing pitchers, where the Sox have been terrible. I wouldn’t be shocked to see them trade Devers if some of these young guys pan out.

 

[The Viking]

I could see that but ultimately he will build dodgers because they let him spend 200 mil a year. So for now with the contracts already in place restraining his spending he's Rays, he will eventually be Dodgers in a good 2-3 years.

 

[the Q]

I could see that but ultimately he will build dodgers because they let him spend 200 mil a year. So for now with the contracts already in place restraining his spending he's Rays, he will eventually be Dodgers in a good 2-3 years.

Yup. Got some contracts that need to expire or be moved. JDM, sale and Eovaldi for starters.

A bogaerts traded will be on the table in the next 14 months if they still stink. He can opt out after next season.

 

[The Viking]

After we get through the 22 season, the Eovaldi and JD contracts are off the books as well as the payouts to Price. Between those 3 it's about 55 million that Bloom will be able to work with towards extensions, arbs, and free agency.

To me the 2022-2023 offseason is where Bloom will really be able to get this franchise competing for the AL East division title again. The farm system should be much improved (esp. after this strong draft coming up) and he will have a ton of financial flexibility.

The timing would be perfect since we seem to go through a WS title every 5 years while turning over the roster.

 

[the Q]

After we get through the 22 season, the Eovaldi and JD contracts are off the books as well as the payouts to Price. Between those 3 it's about 55 million that Bloom will be able to work with towards extensions, arbs, and free agency.

To me the 2022-2023 offseason is where Bloom will really be able to get this franchise competing for the AL East division title again. The farm system should be much improved (esp. after this strong draft coming up) and he will have a ton of financial flexibility.

The timing would be perfect since we seem to go through a WS title every 5 years while turning over the roster.

The problem is X will probably opt out as well.

They are going to need to think about moving him at some point if they aren’t contenders

 

[HuskyHawk]

The problem is X will probably opt out as well.

They are going to need to think about moving him at some point if they aren’t contenders

That is the attitude I expect Bloom to take. It's what Tampa did. Sell stars, get top prospects, reload. The difference is that the Sox can splurge on a star or two to supplement that strategy.

 

[HuskyHawk]

So, are they decent? Do they suck? Certainly Matt Barnes is looking great so far. JD is crushing the ball.

 

[The Viking]

So far so good, but it's only what, 10 games?

It should be interesting if they can hang in there to see what they can get out of Chris Sale come July/August.

The Pivetta and Seabold for Workman trade looks like a steal for Bloom. After a handful of starts with Boston going back to last year, Pivetta looks like a possible 3 or 4 and Seabold will be someone to watch in AAA.

 

[HuskyHawk]

So far so good, but it's only what, 10 games?

It should be interesting if they can hang in there to see what they can get out of Chris Sale come July/August.

The Pivetta and Seabold for Workman trade looks like a steal for Bloom. After a handful of starts with Boston going back to last year, Pivetta looks like a possible 3 or 4 and Seabold will be someone to watch in AAA.

Yeah and the Rule 5 pickup Whitlock looks like a real steal as well. The first 3 games were so awful that I am encouraged by the way they turned it around from there. +15 run differential despite the bad early losses.

 

[the Q]

Yeah and the Rule 5 pickup Whitlock looks like a real steal as well. The first 3 games were so awful that I am encouraged by the way they turned it around from there. +15 run differential despite the bad early losses.

The bullpen still looks troublesome.

The rotation seems to have some depth with sale coming back and houck and seabold in the minors

 

[The Viking]

Whitlock looks great. And he's just learning that change now thanks to Andriese, which will only make him better.

 

[the Q]

Whitlock looks great. And he's just learning that change now thanks to Andriese, which will only make him better.

He could be a rotation option for next season if he keeps this up.

 

[Husky25]

How is this not being done on the 15th of a month?

 

[The Viking]

Favorite player probably ever. Great player, never took a play off, big chip on his shoulder. Outstanding defender, great at turning two.

When Theo called him to tell him he was drafted with their 2nd round pick, he yells at him "What the hell took you so long?"

 

[Travelman6]

Just curious to hear from Sox fan because I never really asked.

I always thought both Damon and Buckner were hall of fame players. Why didn't they gain any traction for the HoF? In fact Damon only got 2% votes and was taken out of consideration after his first year. Was it simply because he was part of a stacked field and voters are limited to just 10 players?

Damon had a .284 BA with 2769 hits (tons of doubles), 1139 rbis (top 200 all time), 15 WAR (15th best CF), and was a solid outfielder with a .9885 career fielding percentage (top 125 all time) and great baserunner. I felt bad for him because he tried for many years, from 2013, to get signed but no one took interest even though he kept himself in excellent shape. I think if a team had taken a chance on him for 2 years he'd surpass 3000 and his HoF candidacy wouldn't be in doubt. Tim Raines has a very comparable career and made the HoF (Raines was a much better base runner). Damon only made 2 allstars but was a major part of the team that "broke the curse".

As far as being known for one single negative play, Buckner, I think more than any other player in any major sport, has been impacted more than anyone. But he had a solid career too, dear I say, HoF worthy. 2715 hits, .289 BA, .991 fielding percentage for his career at first base and .9858 overall for his career, good for top 225 all time. He NEVER struck out 2 times in a game in 22 years (Even excellent batter Ichiro struck out 3 times in a game 22 times). He went to the plate more than 10,000 times and just over 450 strikeouts including one season of 32 at-bats per strikeout and never more than 40 strikeouts in a season, one season having more walks than strikeouts. He only made one all-star game though but got MVP votes multiple seasons and won a batting title.

 

[60'sfan]

Just curious to hear from Sox fan because I never really asked.

I always thought both Damon and Buckner were hall of fame players. Why didn't they gain any traction for the HoF? In fact Damon only got 2% votes and was taken out of consideration after his first year. Was it simply because he was part of a stacked field and voters are limited to just 10 players?

Damon had a .284 BA with 2769 hits (tons of doubles), 1139 rbis (top 200 all time), 15 WAR (15th best CF), and was a solid outfielder with a .9885 career fielding percentage (top 125 all time) and great baserunner. I felt bad for him because he tried for many years, from 2013, to get signed but no one took interest even though he kept himself in excellent shape. I think if a team had taken a chance on him for 2 years he'd surpass 3000 and his HoF candidacy wouldn't be in doubt. Tim Raines has a very comparable career and made the HoF (Raines was a much better base runner). Damon only made 2 allstars but was a major part of the team that "broke the curse".

As far as being known for one single negative play, Buckner, I think more than any other player in any major sport, has been impacted more than anyone. But he had a solid career too, dear I say, HoF worthy. 2715 hits, .289 BA, .991 fielding percentage for his career at first base and .9858 overall for his career, good for top 225 all time. He NEVER struck out 2 times in a game in 22 years (Even excellent batter Ichiro struck out 3 times in a game 22 times). He went to the plate more than 10,000 times and just over 450 strikeouts including one season of 32 at-bats per strikeout and never more than 40 strikeouts in a season, one season having more walks than strikeouts. He only made one all-star game though but got MVP votes multiple seasons and won a batting title.

I have never thought of Johnny Damon as Hall of Fame material. He was a solid hitter and a good base runner but I remember that he had a pretty weak throwing arm. His life-time batting average was less than spectacular and he was not a particularly great post season player. (unless you want to focus on game seven vs the Yankees in 2004. I would have voted for him as mayor of Boston after that)

Bill Buckner was the victim of one play that will probably haunt him the rest of his life. The truth is that game was lost already when he let that ball skip between his legs. The game was tied at the time and the Sox had no one left in the pen. It was probably the most painful game for me in my history of watching the Sox. Buckner was a great player and they would not have been in World Series without him.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Just curious to hear from Sox fan because I never really asked.

I always thought both Damon and Buckner were hall of fame players. Why didn't they gain any traction for the HoF? In fact Damon only got 2% votes and was taken out of consideration after his first year. Was it simply because he was part of a stacked field and voters are limited to just 10 players?

Damon had a .284 BA with 2769 hits (tons of doubles), 1139 rbis (top 200 all time), 15 WAR (15th best CF), and was a solid outfielder with a .9885 career fielding percentage (top 125 all time) and great baserunner. I felt bad for him because he tried for many years, from 2013, to get signed but no one took interest even though he kept himself in excellent shape. I think if a team had taken a chance on him for 2 years he'd surpass 3000 and his HoF candidacy wouldn't be in doubt. Tim Raines has a very comparable career and made the HoF (Raines was a much better base runner). Damon only made 2 allstars but was a major part of the team that "broke the curse".

As far as being known for one single negative play, Buckner, I think more than any other player in any major sport, has been impacted more than anyone. But he had a solid career too, dear I say, HoF worthy. 2715 hits, .289 BA, .991 fielding percentage for his career at first base and .9858 overall for his career, good for top 225 all time. He NEVER struck out 2 times in a game in 22 years (Even excellent batter Ichiro struck out 3 times in a game 22 times). He went to the plate more than 10,000 times and just over 450 strikeouts including one season of 32 at-bats per strikeout and never more than 40 strikeouts in a season, one season having more walks than strikeouts. He only made one all-star game though but got MVP votes multiple seasons and won a batting title.

Agree with @60'sfan. I'll add that I don't think of them as players that if they went to the HOF, would be wearing Red Sox caps. Damon - Royals, and Buckner - Dodgers. Dwight Evans was a better player than Damon over his career, and he's not in.

The best Red Sox HOF candidate who isn't there and is eligible is Clemens. I think they need to ignore the PED allegations, because we just don't know who did what in that era. They guy would otherwise be a unanimous first ballot HOFer. Even now, the illegal sticky substances being enforced has suddenly created an explosion of offense.

 

[Husky25]

Damon is in the Hall of Very Good.

If there is a knock on Bill Buck, it's that he was a compiler, but was not among the best of his peers for a period of time, as far as I remember.

Evans was dropped from the ballot way too early. He was a very good defensive right fielder in one of the most difficult parks in the Majors, an under appreciated hitter outside of New England, and had one the the best mustaches of all time in any profession.

Both Evans and Buckner are deserving of the Hall of Fame over Harold Baines.