Our depth | The Boneyard

Our depth

Joined
Sep 16, 2011
Messages
40,187
Reaction Score
74,255
The depth Hurley talked about all preseason and start of the season is now nonexistent, especially with Tyrese out. Against MSU without Whaley coming off a brutal Auburn game which wore us down. We became an 8 man rotation which is basically now a 7 man rotation with Akok scoring 2 total points in his last 4 games. Tyrese looks to be down a month or so...

Coach simply needs to start playing Samson and Diggins. Depth and athleticism are supposed to be the hallmarks of this team. We don't execute like Nova on the offensive end we neuter ourselves by not playing more players. We need to be the ones wearing other teams down.
 
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
871
Reaction Score
2,394
Just saw this and said something similar in another thread.
 
Joined
Nov 15, 2018
Messages
176
Reaction Score
405
The depth Hurley talked about all preseason and start of the season is now nonexistent, especially with Tyrese out. Against MSU without Whaley coming off a brutal Auburn game which wore us down. We became an 8 man rotation which is basically now a 7 man rotation with Akok scoring 2 total points in his last 4 games. Tyrese looks to be down a month or so...

Coach simply needs to start playing Samson and Diggins. Depth and athleticism are supposed to be the hallmarks of this team. We don't execute like Nova on the offensive end we neuter ourselves by not playing more players. We need to be the ones wearing other teams down.
What good is our depth if we don't play our bench much? With Martin out you would expect to take advantage of our "depth" but he sat Diggins, Johnson and Akok played very little... and against a cupcake team.
 
Joined
Jan 12, 2014
Messages
236
Reaction Score
441
The depth Hurley talked about all preseason and start of the season is now nonexistent, especially with Tyrese out. Against MSU without Whaley coming off a brutal Auburn game which wore us down. We became an 8 man rotation which is basically now a 7 man rotation with Akok scoring 2 total points in his last 4 games. Tyrese looks to be down a month or so...

Coach simply needs to start playing Samson and Diggins. Depth and athleticism are supposed to be the hallmarks of this team. We don't execute like Nova on the offensive end we neuter ourselves by not playing more players. We need to be the ones wearing other teams down.
Agree. The writing is on the wall for a big disappointment if we do not get this figured out. Akok is a shell of himself right now. For the thousands of shots Jackson has taken during the off season, he has not demonstrated a feel for taking a jump shot. Gaffney - if you like your guards playing slow with their back to their defenders, he's your guy - but it thwarts our efforts to use our athleticism to an advantage. While watching the MES game, I could almost hear Calhoun going nuts..."Hit the m*fer."
 

August_West

"Quasimodo predicted all of this."
Joined
Aug 29, 2011
Messages
45,972
Reaction Score
93,915
What good is our depth if we don't play our bench much? With Martin out you would expect to take advantage of our "depth" but he sat Diggins, Johnson and Akok played very little... and against a cupcake team.

I don't like Hurley not giving guys looks. I'm still mystified why Diggins didn't get a 2 minute look against VCU when we couldn't get the ball past 1/2 court, but for last night? He gets a pass from me on that. I'm sure he was planning on getting some run for those guys, but quite simply we probably would've lost the game and the opportunity never presented itself.

What scares me is that it's obvious Sanogo is supposed to be our "best" player and for his skillset he probably is (although I think Cole is making a huge case for being our "best" player now) , but there are many times where our "best" team on the floor is Whaley at the 5. Certainly that was the case last night.
 
Joined
Feb 2, 2012
Messages
2,146
Reaction Score
4,195
We clearly don't have "9 starters" like DH said to start the Season. More like 7 and now 6 with Martin out.

Akok isn't there yet unfortunately and barely plays & Gaffney hasn't progressed, he'll play but can't run the team in crunch time.

We also look soft besides Cole/Whaley/Martin & Sanogo. Ajax & Hawkins need to be tougher to fill the Martin void and Polley needs to be more consistent obviously.

DH now talking "core 4" (Cole/Whaley/Martin/Sanogo I assume) and not much "9 starters" anymore.

I have no idea what Diggins, Johnson and Springs can give us this year...clearly DH doesn't think they are ready to contribute much.

Panicked...No. Concerned...Yes.
 
Last edited:

ClifSpliffy

surf's up
Joined
Nov 9, 2018
Messages
7,346
Reaction Score
6,227
We clearly don't have "9 starters" like DH said to start the Season. More like 7 and now 6 with Martin out.

Akok isn't there yet unfortunately and barely plays & Gaffney hasn't progressed, he'll play but can't run the team in crunch time.

We also look soft besides Cole/Whaley/Martin & Sanogo. Ajax & Hawkins need to be tougher to fill the Martin void and Polley needs to be more consistent obviously.

DH now talking "core 4" (Cole/Whaley/Martin/Sanogo I assume) and not much "9 starters" anymore.

I have no idea what Diggins, Johnson and Springs can give us this year...clearly DH doesn't think they are ready to contribute much.

Panicked...No. Concerned...Yes.
'Gaffney hasn't progressed,'
hmmmm, 8 games in, aaaaannnnnndddddd
3rd in steals
2nd in fta's,
1st in a/to %.
1st in 3%, 48% on 3rd most attempts.

all at only 19 minutes per game.

ramble on. the best part? he has consistently shown that he is a breakdown penetrator against anyone. anyone. it's almost a pattern. things get sideways, coach sez 'jmoney! get in there and fix this offense mess! get it, drive, get fouled, make some freebies!' did i mention shooting 48% on 3's?
math is our friend, or
 
Last edited:
Joined
Sep 16, 2011
Messages
40,187
Reaction Score
74,255
I don't like Hurley not giving guys looks. I'm still mystified why Diggins didn't get a 2 minute look against VCU when we couldn't get the ball past 1/2 court, but for last night? He gets a pass from me on that. I'm sure he was planning on getting some run for those guys, but quite simply we probably would've lost the game and the opportunity never presented itself.

What scares me is that it's obvious Sanogo is supposed to be our "best" player and for his skillset he probably is (although I think Cole is making a huge case for being our "best" player now) , but there are many times where our "best" team on the floor is Whaley at the 5. Certainly that was the case last night.
Agreed, Whaley and Sanogo are both 5's at the college level but they are both so good they can make it work IMO. I'm more concerned with how we've shrunk depth wise.

I'm a big proponent in you don't know what you have in young players unless they are given real playing time and are allowed to play through mistakes. You can't know what you have from just watching them in practices. I also don't believe guys like Gaffney and Akok are so good they should be keeping the freshmen off the floor. If you aren't bringing it you should always know/have the fear that someone will be put in the game to take your place.
 
Joined
Mar 6, 2014
Messages
445
Reaction Score
1,267
The depth Hurley talked about all preseason and start of the season is now nonexistent, especially with Tyrese out. Against MSU without Whaley coming off a brutal Auburn game which wore us down. We became an 8 man rotation which is basically now a 7 man rotation with Akok scoring 2 total points in his last 4 games. Tyrese looks to be down a month or so...

Coach simply needs to start playing Samson and Diggins. Depth and athleticism are supposed to be the hallmarks of this team. We don't execute like Nova on the offensive end we neuter ourselves by not playing more players. We need to be the ones wearing other teams down.

Exactly right about Johnson and Diggins. It is strange that two high-end four-star recruits have not shown enough in practice to warrant ever being on the floor when the game is on the line. There's only so much you can prove playing with walk-ons.

DH is doing to the freshman Johnson what KO did to the freshman Kentan Facey. Remember how Facey used to stuff the stat sheets in the few minutes he was allowed on the floor. But, like Johnson, he couldn't break into the tight rotation his coach preferred. Of course, that rotation featured Daniels and Giffey at the corners and led to a NC.
 
Joined
Feb 2, 2012
Messages
2,146
Reaction Score
4,195
'Gaffney hasn't progressed,'
hmmmm, 8 games in, aaaaannnnnndddddd
3rd in steals
2nd in fta's,
1st in a/to %.
1st in 3%, 48% on 3rd most attempts.

all at only 19 minutes per game.

ramble on. the best part? he has consistently shown that he is a breakdown penetrator against anyone. anyone. it's almost a pattern. things get sideways, coach sez 'jmoney! get in there and fix this offense mess! get it, drive, get fouled, make some freebies!' did i mention shooting 48% on 3's?
math is our friend, or
If you've watched and are still confident Gaffney can run this team God Bless. I don't think DH agrees with you.

Gaffney has played out of necessity & not much in big games against good teams. He made zero 3 pointers and 2 FG's total against the 3 legit teams played so far.

Gaffney played 13 mins in a double OT against Auburn....0 FG , 6 FT's made. Cole played 47 mins vs Auburn

Gaffney played 15 mins against MSU and scored 3 points. Cole played 27 mins, fouled and we lost...wonder why.

Gaffney's stats are all against the "cupcakes" & if Cole misses any time this season we're screwed. I doubt the plan was to play Cole 40 minutes per game but against good teams he may need to.
 
Last edited:

ClifSpliffy

surf's up
Joined
Nov 9, 2018
Messages
7,346
Reaction Score
6,227
Agreed, Whaley and Sanogo are both 5's at the college level but they are both so good they can make it work IMO. I'm more concerned with how we've shrunk depth wise.

I'm a big proponent in you don't know what you have in young players unless they are given real playing time and are allowed to play through mistakes. You can't know what you have from just watching them in practices. I also don't believe guys like Gaffney and Akok are so good they should be keeping the freshmen off the floor. If you aren't bringing it you should always know/have the fear that someone will be put in the game to take your place.
'I also don't believe guys like Gaffney and Akok are so good they should be keeping the freshmen off the floor. '
48% on 3%, 3rd most attempts. what u got? 48%.
'feelings. whoa, whoa, whoa, feeeeeeelings.....'
 
Joined
Aug 22, 2016
Messages
2,508
Reaction Score
7,554
Depth is good for practices and good for when there are multiple injuries.

A lot of times, depth just causes unhappy players who can't get in a rhythm.

Gaffney has been mostly bad, akok has looked lost since the start of Atlantis and Diggins and Johnson don't seem to have any place in the rotation and are probably pissed, especially after last night when the main guys in the rotation couldn't outplay a low level team. Hawkins and Jackson look amazing on some plays and reckless on others. There is a lot of problems right now and its on Hurley to fix them.
 
Joined
Aug 27, 2011
Messages
6,573
Reaction Score
8,364
Starting to see the same Hurley weaknesses pop out. Great recruiter, great motivator, but seems to struggle with player management, game adjustments, and closeouts. Hope he starts figuring it out.
 
Joined
Aug 27, 2011
Messages
150
Reaction Score
41
'Gaffney hasn't progressed,'
hmmmm, 8 games in, aaaaannnnnndddddd
3rd in steals
2nd in fta's,
1st in a/to %.
1st in 3%, 48% on 3rd most attempts.

all at only 19 minutes per game.

ramble on. the best part? he has consistently shown that he is a breakdown penetrator against anyone. anyone. it's almost a pattern. things get sideways, coach sez 'jmoney! get in there and fix this offense mess! get it, drive, get fouled, make some freebies!' did i mention shooting 48% on 3's?
math is our friend, or
No it's an accurate statement, we're 8 games into the year and competition against weaker opponents make it easy to say look he's playing well but in the Bahamas where we played high level competition his lack of progress was evident:
1 for 11 from the floor
0 for 5 from three
5 assists vs. 6 turnovers

You mention third in steals and I'll counter with how Gaffney's on-ball defense leaves him getting blown by on a consistent basis, not to mention offensively he struggles with any sort of pressure defense, and going forward we need a lot more out of him or it may be time for Diggins to get a shot.
 

Rico444

Strive for Five
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
7,354
Reaction Score
13,352
No it's an accurate statement, we're 8 games into the year and competition against weaker opponents make it easy to say look he's playing well but in the Bahamas where we played high level competition his lack of progress was evident:
1 for 11 from the floor
0 for 5 from three
5 assists vs. 6 turnovers

You mention third in steals and I'll counter with how Gaffney's on-ball defense leaves him getting blown by on a consistent basis, not to mention offensively he struggles with any sort of pressure defense, and going forward we need a lot more out of him or it may be time for Diggins to get a shot.

Gaffney kept getting blown past to the rim on defense last night. It was driving me crazy.
 
Joined
Apr 13, 2018
Messages
619
Reaction Score
929
The depth Hurley talked about all preseason and start of the season is now nonexistent, especially with Tyrese out. Against MSU without Whaley coming off a brutal Auburn game which wore us down. We became an 8 man rotation which is basically now a 7 man rotation with Akok scoring 2 total points in his last 4 games. Tyrese looks to be down a month or so...

Coach simply needs to start playing Samson and Diggins. Depth and athleticism are supposed to be the hallmarks of this team. We don't execute like Nova on the offensive end we neuter ourselves by not playing more players. We need to be the ones wearing other teams down.
I believe once we roll into big east play there will be an 8 man rotation of rj, gaffney, hawkins, aj, adama, whaley, martin and polley. Unfortunately that means the rest of them will be riding the pine unless injuries take place.
 
Joined
Nov 30, 2020
Messages
197
Reaction Score
335
It's clear Hurley believes Diggins has zero ability to play right now. A reporter asked him about it actually recently on why he didn't bring him in during Bahama's to break press. Hurley had his usual snide remark (think it was something along the lines of "and then do what? bring a guy in just to break a press?") but the indication was that Diggins is non existent right now with playing time.

That's too bad.
 

ClifSpliffy

surf's up
Joined
Nov 9, 2018
Messages
7,346
Reaction Score
6,227
It's clear Hurley believes Diggins has zero ability to play right now. A reporter asked him about it actually recently on why he didn't bring him in during Bahama's to break press. Hurley had his usual snide remark (think it was something along the lines of "and then do what? bring a guy in just to break a press?") but the indication was that Diggins is non existent right now with playing time.

That's too bad.
'peak' sool could look like mark jackson - hoops brain far beyond apparent physical ability, which is a good thing. and, like ajax, who really is a valuable component for a winning squad, his points will come when he is scoring the ball, not from shooting it. one month and 8 games into his 2nd season, aj's assist/to ratio is still only 1/1, despite his above average ability to see the floor. first, he'll improve his slip pass execution, which is turrible right now.
i like watching the veggie plants going from barely making it thru a late spring cold snap, to pumping out tomatos in august like a factory. tasty.
 
Joined
Apr 14, 2020
Messages
2,104
Reaction Score
3,583
IMO.. Not having Martin for the next few weeks is going to force bench players/rotation players/ and the freshmen to accelerate their growth and show their value to DH/staff. PT is up for grabs without Martin's presence in the lineup.

In an odd way it may force DH to experiment/implement some lineup changes ahead of when he might ordinarily do it based on his coaching history.

Who wants to accept the challenge and show it in practice and on the court? May not end up being a bad thing for our success in March to develop the roster in Dec/Jan.

Quick comment on Hawk. Bet you he would see more passes coming his way if he occasionally returned a pass to an open teammate vs just looking for his shot. Being a good teammate is a good thing.
 

ClifSpliffy

surf's up
Joined
Nov 9, 2018
Messages
7,346
Reaction Score
6,227
Gaffney kept getting blown past to the rim on defense last night. It was driving me crazy.
it is essential to our team success that he is available to play at endgame, so piling up fouls which could lead to not being available then is a bad idea. having said that, right now he is just an average defender, tho the steal part of his skill is above average. often, first time defending a new player, he plays soft in an attempt to learn-by-doing what the guy has. equally often, the second time can result in a good foul, often hacking both hands as the player tries a repeat drive. also often, jmoney thwarts that attempt the 2nd time. his d brain gravitates more to steal the rock, than defend the rock. as his patience grows on d, the results will be more apparent. in the meantime, let's have a tune!

i am so enjoying his journey. still shooting 48% on 3's. he never seems overly bothered by a miscue, kinda like a mlb closer.
 
Joined
Feb 2, 2012
Messages
2,146
Reaction Score
4,195
it is essential to our team success that he is available to play at endgame, so piling up fouls which could lead to not being available then is a bad idea. having said that, right now he is just an average defender, tho the steal part of his skill is above average. often, first time defending a new player, he plays soft in an attempt to learn-by-doing what the guy has. equally often, the second time can result in a good foul, often hacking both hands as the player tries a repeat drive. also often, jmoney thwarts that attempt the 2nd time. his d brain gravitates more to steal the rock, than defend the rock. as his patience grows on d, the results will be more apparent. in the meantime, let's have a tune!

i am so enjoying his journey. still shooting 48% on 3's. he never seems overly bothered by a miscue, kinda like a mlb closer.
dear lord...whatever, enjoy your tunes lol.

You do realize that Gaff is a junior & his 3pt % against real teams this year is 0.0% ? So he can close against cupcakes....we have 1 cupcake left and then not so much.
 
Joined
Sep 16, 2011
Messages
40,187
Reaction Score
74,255
IMO.. Not having Martin for the next few weeks is going to force bench players/rotation players/ and the freshmen to accelerate their growth and show their value to DH/staff. PT is up for grabs without Martin's presence in the lineup.

In an odd way it may force DH to experiment/implement some lineup changes ahead of when he might ordinarily do it based on his coaching history.

Who wants to accept the challenge and show it in practice and on the court? May not end up being a bad thing for our success in March to develop the roster in Dec/Jan.

Quick comment on Hawk. Bet you he would see more passes coming his way if he occasionally returned a pass to an open teammate vs just looking for his shot. Being a good teammate is a good thing.
We all hope so but outside of Cole and Whaley everyone was really lousy last night and he didn't play the two freshman we're talking about at all. Hurley said he did a horrible job of preparing the team to play last night and it won't happen again, if it does he'll take out the guys on the court and put in all the guys on the bench. Again, I like what he said but it's just words at this point. Last night seemed like the perfect time to send a message and put in the guys who don't play.
 

ClifSpliffy

surf's up
Joined
Nov 9, 2018
Messages
7,346
Reaction Score
6,227
dear lord...whatever, enjoy your tunes lol.

You do realize that Gaff is a junior & his 3pt % against real teams this year is 0.0% ? So he can close against cupcakes....we have 1 cupcake left and then not so much.
i realize that you, like most here, don't actually play basketball.
 
Joined
Jul 6, 2019
Messages
318
Reaction Score
788
I think Gaffney is a player that can certainly have a role on a good team. I don't think he should be starting (which he isn't), and he shouldn't have ball handling responsibilities. I definitely didn't think by his junior year he'd still be turning his back on his defender to get across half court. But Cole can't be the only primary ball handler on this team. I really wish Hurley would have Diggins run the point for 3 or 4 possessions against WVU, just to see what he can do. If he succeeds, great, if not so be it. If Diggins can just move the ball across half court and find a good pass in an offensive set then he'd be worthwhile to give Cole a 3 minute rest.
 
Joined
Apr 14, 2020
Messages
2,104
Reaction Score
3,583
We all hope so but outside of Cole and Whaley everyone was really lousy last night and he didn't play the two freshman we're talking about at all. Hurley said he did a horrible job of preparing the team to play last night and it won't happen again, if it does he'll take out the guys on the court and put in all the guys on the bench. Again, I like what he said but it's just words at this point. Last night seemed like the perfect time to send a message and put in the guys who don't play.
We agree. Losing one of his "guys"(for a month) who was off to a great start this year has got to impact his rotations/who he plays. Feel bad for TM but we've got to pivot and change things until he's back.

Sometimes circumstances beyond our control dictate our actions. I don't think we can succeed with a short rotation. Guys will flame out and there will be no younger player development. Ball is in his court to be flexible and adjust.
 

Online statistics

Members online
625
Guests online
1,616
Total visitors
2,241

Forum statistics

Threads
165,168
Messages
4,006,319
Members
8,790
Latest member
Cutthacheck


Top Bottom