Kiah Stokes waived by Liberty

[triaddukefan]

It's Officially Time for WNBA Expansion - Zone Coverage

Currently, there are 12 total teams in the WNBA, which is celebrating its 25th year of operation. The WNBA debuted in 1997 with eight teams, eventually

zonecoverage.com

I would go with a team in 23 or 24 snd then another in 26. With the Bay and Toronto being the leading contenders, followed by Nash/Memphis, Louisville, and Portland.

Miami is a terrible idea.

I’m down on Charlotte bc it failed once but maybe with some ex-SoCar players ….

Charlotte failed in part because of the owner Bob Johnson. Really wasn't invested in it, and gave up on the team a bit too early. I've stated before on this forum that if Michael Jordan were the owner back then, the Sting would still be in the WNBA. Plus Charlotte is an entirely different city than it was in 2006. City had about 600,000 people back then.... now its over 900,000. Metro area has gained probably close to 1 million people during the same time period.

 

[Vowelguy]

And the northeast is chop suey?

The northeast has 3 teams. What is a clear choice for a team ?
Even if you wanted to make a case for Philly, I think the advantages of expanding to new markets, new fans outweighs.

 

[CajunHusky]

Personal problems??? (you're suggesting Kiah has personal problems, which I don't see anyone alluding to beside you - a very unkind suggestion)
or
Personnel problems (as in the team has a lot of management issues to deal with as a function of league rules

My understanding is the former, which have nothing to do with Kiah's relationships with herself or others... Please, lets not get that rumor started that you suggest....

transactions (not a rumor) for June 30 from the wnba.com

New York Liberty: Kiah Stokes – Waived
New York Liberty: Kiah Stokes – Contract Amendment – Divorce

I don't know what that second one means in official CBA parlance so I left it as "personal reasons". If someone has deeper understanding of the technical meaning wrt CBA perhaps they could shed light.

Nonetheless if she was dressed and on the bench last night then my conjecture about not being available rest of the season is obviously wrong.

 

[Vowelguy]

Charlotte failed in part because of the owner Bob Johnson. Really wasn't invested in it, and gave up on the team a bit too early. I've stated before on this forum that if Michael Jordan were the owner back then, the Sting would still be in the WNBA. Plus Charlotte is an entirely different city than it was in 2006. City had about 600,000 people back then.... now its over 900,000. Metro area has gained probably close to 1 million people during the same time period.

Charlotte Metro went from ~2.02M in 2006 to ~2.66M in 2020.

 

[Boreifs]

A 2 team expansion should be in the works fairly soon. If you look at some of these rosters, there is alot of great CBB talent that can't get on the floor, as well as some rosters that have more talent than they need. There is an abundant of High School talent coming out every year, and after their college careers are done they need a place to go. Traditionally an expansion team isn't very good, but I believe it would be a little different in this league. These young kids are better than ever, and the chance to see more of them on a professional level will make the league prosper, with more fans following more hometown kids, and venturing into areas of the country who don't even follow the NBA because of non-local interest. North Carolina, Tennessee, the west coast are hotbeds of WCBB, so as they finally did in Connecticut, give then a chance to succeed. As a former player on the Sting team, maybe Dawn would offer to coach the team, and possibly invest in a new franchise. ( with Geno) ?

?? Obviously, we see things differently. I wish someone with such an opinion would name names of players who fit in this category of wasted professional-level talent. Also, when one of the 12 teams has only won one game, there is zero justification for expansion.

 

[triaddukefan]

Charlotte Metro went from ~2.02M in 2006 to ~2.66M in 2020.

I rounded up

 

[Dokey]

It's Officially Time for WNBA Expansion - Zone Coverage

Currently, there are 12 total teams in the WNBA, which is celebrating its 25th year of operation. The WNBA debuted in 1997 with eight teams, eventually

zonecoverage.com

I would go with a team in 23 or 24 snd then another in 26. With the Bay and Toronto being the leading contenders, followed by Nash/Memphis, Louisville, and Portland.

Miami is a terrible idea.

I’m down on Charlotte bc it failed once but maybe with some ex-SoCar players ….

Denver is the logical choice, the sports capitol of the non coastal west, see Broncos.

 

[Vowelguy]

. Also, when one of the 12 teams has only won one game, there is zero justification for expansion.

Huh?
maybe the team has a bad GM or bad coach or has been unlucky wrt to injuries or other factors
Individual team records indicate nothing about overall league quality.

 

[Boreifs]

Huh?
maybe the team has a bad GM or bad coach or has been unlucky wrt to injuries or other factors
Individual team records indicate nothing about overall league quality.

If I were you, I wouldn’t use that as an argument in a logic class.

 

[Vowelguy]

If I were you, I wouldn’t use that as an argument in a logic class.

I’m sure a stats class would be amused at your notion that high variance and high mean are mutually exclusive.

 

[Boreifs]

I’m sure a stats class would be amused at your notion that high variance and high mean are mutually exclusive.

I’m not talking about stats. The issue is that a league which can’t field 12 competitive teams shouldn’t be thinking about adding two more. Having three instead of one that lose almost all their games doesn’t enhance the product.

 

[Dokey]

Expansion is a horrible idea when teams lose money, relocation is more successful. Just ask the wings from Tulsa to Dallas, the Aces from San Antonio to Vegas. Fever would be my guess to move but nothing has suggested expansion is gonna help the league

The main reason for expansion is to make the league more visible. While my hometown newspaper has a large sports section, the WNBA is never mentioned, as there is not a team in the area. We have a team is every other major sport.

 

[Boreifs]

The main reason for expansion is to make the league more visible. While my hometown newspaper has a large sports section, the WNBA is never mentioned, as there is not a team in the area. We have a team is every other major sport.

There are WNBA games on Amazon Prime. I suspect that impacts more people in your community than the home newspaper.

 

[Carnac]

I love the WNBA!! I would like to see the league grow to 14 teams at some point in the future. However, I must agree with Jordy that the league must also be balanced and ready for expansion. Having a team (Indiana Fever) that has only 2 wins (they won their 2nd game of the season yesterday) out of 18 games should give pause for concern.

ALL 12 teams should be competitive BEFORE any serious thought of expansion can take place. It's like having an 8 cylinder engine but only 7 of them are working, yet you want to push the engine to go/perform at greater speeds for long periods of time without damaging the engine.

I believe there are several cities that could and would support a WNBA team, however, you never want to dilute your product for the sake of expansion. All things in time. I also agree that RIGHT NOW, there is not enough talent to go around to support 14 teams, and all of them be competitive. Hopefully THAT day is on the horizon, and will manifest itself soon. We'll get there. Remember, the league began with only 8 teams in 1996. 25 years later, there's still breath left in that body.

On April 24, 1996, women’s basketball announced “We Got Next” as the NBA Board of Governors approved the concept of a Women’s National Basketball Association (WNBA) to begin play in June 1997. The WNBA began with eight teams: the Charlotte Sting, Cleveland Rockers, Houston Comets, and New York Liberty in the Eastern Conference; and the Los Angeles Sparks, Phoenix Mercury, Sacramento Monarchs, and Utah Starzz in the Western Conference. It's been a tough journey. Only 3 of the original 8 teams are still in existence. The Liberty, the Mercury and the Sparks.

 

[bbsamjj]

Easy fill. Really? Care to name names. I see a 12-team league right now that struggles to find eight people on a team who can play at a professional level. The Liberty, which is my local team, has trouble finding seven. The Fever has trouble finding five. Productive play on the college level does not automatically cross over into Pro basketball. Now if they could get the top International players into the league, that would change overnight, but they are reluctant to spend 12 months a year playing basketball when the pay and working conditions in the WNBA are so far inferior.

The fact that the Fever are horrible I think says more to do with that organization than the ability of the league to add 1-2 more teams, given that teams #4-#11 are all within 3 games of each other. In my mind, the Fever are the league outlier...and even they found a way to beat CT yesterday.

I think it's odd you pick the Liberty as your example, when they have 10 players averaging at least 14mpg, all of whom look like legitimate WNBA players (Ionescu, Laney, Howard, Whitcomb, Onyenwere, Gray, Allen, Jones, Shook, Odom).

Would an expansion team be bad at first? of course, it's an expansion team. If the league wanted an expansion team to be competitive immediately, I think you'd want to limit teams to only be able to protect 7 players (maybe even 6).

Let's say they add one team and everyone gets to protect 7 players. Here is who could be immediately available:

NYL: Jazmine Jones
Atlanta: E. Williams
Chicago: R. Hebard
Dallas: M. Jefferson
CT: Kaila Charles
IND: L. Allen
Vegas: R. Williams
LA: Chiney Ogwumike
MN: N. Anchonwa
Phx: S. Cunningham
Seattle: S. Talbot
Was: T. Plaisance

Potential depth chart of:
E. Williams/R. Hebard
T. Plaisance/N. Acnhonwa
S. Talbot/Chiney/Charles
R. Williams/Jaz Jones/Cunningham
M. Jefferson/L. Allen

I'm not arguing that team is making the playoffs, but it could be competitive (especially if/when they could add a Bueckers or Clark).

 

[CTrefugee]

This is why we need an expansion to 14 teams next year and hopefully eventually 16 teams.

Why would they expand and lose more money than they lose now?

 

[Carnac]

The WNBA's announcement on Stokes:

Aces Sign Six-Year Veteran Center Kiah Stokes - Las Vegas Aces

Las Vegas (July 2, 2021)— Las Vegas Aces General Manager Dan Padover announced today that the team signed six-year veteran center Kiah Stokes to a rest-of-season contract. Through nine games with the New York Liberty in 2021, Kiah averaged 1.2 points and 4.2 rebounds over 15.0 minutes per game...

aces.wnba.com

 

[Vowelguy]

I’m not talking about stats. The issue is that a league which can’t field 12 competitive teams shouldn’t be thinking about adding two more. Having three instead of one that lose almost all their games doesn’t enhance the product.

By this “logic” if i coach Indiana and they go 0-30 then the league isn’t ready for expansion but if Geno coaches THE SAME PLAYERS and they go 12-18 then it is.

Lol

 

[Vowelguy]

Why would they expand and lose more money than they lose now?

Because it’s owned by the NBA and a minuscule portion of league business, Unclear how much money the W makes or loses. The league has an interest in downplaying revenue as it reduces players ability to demand more money.

by bringing the league to new markets, expansion can increase tv ratings and general interest, and grow the league. Also cuts travel costs.

Not that you can just expand like crazy, but modest measured expansion can work if done right and carefully.

 

[Boreifs]

Because it’s owned by the NBA and a minuscule portion of league business, Unclear how much money the W makes or loses. The league has an interest in downplaying revenue as it reduces players ability to demand more money.

by bringing the league to new markets, expansion can increase tv ratings and general interest, and grow the league. Also cuts travel costs.

Not that you can just expand like crazy, but modest measured expansion can work if done right and carefully.

If I understand correctly, the NBA no longer owns the WNBA. Some NBA owners own WNBA franchises, but the league is now self financing. Of course, I could be wrong.

 

[Carnac]

Stokes played 14 minutes off the bench today in the Aces 118-95 victory over the Dream. 4 Rebounds (3 off), no shots taken, no assists, no blocks.

 

[Boreifs]

The fact that the Fever are horrible I think says more to do with that organization than the ability of the league to add 1-2 more teams, given that teams #4-#11 are all within 3 games of each other. In my mind, the Fever are the league outlier...and even they found a way to beat CT yesterday.

I think it's odd you pick the Liberty as your example, when they have 10 players averaging at least 14mpg, all of whom look like legitimate WNBA players (Ionescu, Laney, Howard, Whitcomb, Onyenwere, Gray, Allen, Jones, Shook, Odom).

Would an expansion team be bad at first? of course, it's an expansion team. If the league wanted an expansion team to be competitive immediately, I think you'd want to limit teams to only be able to protect 7 players (maybe even 6).

Let's say they add one team and everyone gets to protect 7 players. Here is who could be immediately available:

NYL: Jazmine Jones
Atlanta: E. Williams
Chicago: R. Hebard
Dallas: M. Jefferson
CT: Kaila Charles
IND: L. Allen
Vegas: R. Williams
LA: Chiney Ogwumike
MN: N. Anchonwa
Phx: S. Cunningham
Seattle: S. Talbot
Was: T. Plaisance

Potential depth chart of:
E. Williams/R. Hebard
T. Plaisance/N. Acnhonwa
S. Talbot/Chiney/Charles
R. Williams/Jaz Jones/Cunningham
M. Jefferson/L. Allen

I'm not arguing that team is making the playoffs, but it could be competitive (especially if/when they could add a Bueckers or Clark).

Thank you for naming names. If each team got to protect eight, which is more likely. and two teams were added, I shudder at the possibilities. Your assessment of the Liberty roster is obviously different than mine, but that’s why they play the games.

 

[Bald Husky]

The fever have two of WCBB recent stars, Tiffany and Kelsey Mitchell. I'm not saying that they can carry a team, just saying that all the teams have some very good players. I believe that the problem in the WNBA is quality coaching. Dan Hughes and Brian Agler recently retired, two long time coaches that won championships with multiple teams. Two teams are led by former NBA players, James Wade of the Sky, and Derrick Fisher of the Sparks. These guys had zero experience coaching women, and their experience coaching men is minimal, if any. The league needs some of the high profile college coaches to step up and move up to the pros. Now, I admit that I am one of the people that think a move like that is risky, why moving from a comfortable setting to one that is questionable. The NBA is a players league, but the WNBA isn't at that point as yet. The players listen to the coaches, as they do in college. All I'm saying is that if the league wants to expand, dynamic coaches would be just as enticing to the fans as dynamic players.

 

[DEpup]

I agree with many posters that the Fever can not be used as a decision point for expansion. There is talent on that team, their issues are something else.

 

[bbsamjj]

Thank you for naming names. If each team got to protect eight, which is more likely. and two teams were added, I shudder at the possibilities. Your assessment of the Liberty roster is obviously different than mine, but that’s why they play the games.

Why do you think 8 is more likely? Because of precedent? What I don't know is what the new collective bargaining agreement says about the possibility of expansion--if you've signed a 3-year deal with a team, can you then be drafted in an "expansion" draft?

I'm curious also who from the Liberty's roster you don't think is a WNBA talent. I feel mixed about Shook, but she's had multiple double digit scoring and rebounding games this year. Reshanda Gray is a league journeywoman (which exist in every league), but she just posted 11pts and 6 rebounds and was key to the Liberty's comeback against the Mystics. Odom is giving you 5ppg on 53% FG shooting in 14mpg. I dont' think your 9th or 10th player on the depth chart need to be world beaters to show there is room to grow the league.