Key tweets, and it's all gone to Hell.

[Kolumbo]

All the speculation is fun but we have to speculate on what the end game even is. 10 years ago we had to get in a P5 conference. Today I am not nearly as concerned because everyone not in the P2 is trying to figure out the angles. A version of an East Coast conference although not making the same bank as the others would be fine with me. I still maintain a Big East-ACC hybrid could be a unique survivor because the Northeast/Mid-Atlantic is simply different than the rest of the country.

 

[hoopsfan22]

I still maintain a Big East-ACC hybrid could be a unique survivor because the Northeast/Mid-Atlantic is simply different than the rest of the country.

Wouldn't this just be a bigger version of the old Big East that the Catholic schools ultimately wanted nothing to do with?

 

[Kolumbo]

Wouldn't this just be a bigger version of the old Big East that the Catholic schools ultimately wanted nothing to do with?

Exactly. Except this time they could proactively design a system everyone is happy with instead of having it develop willy nilly. Duke, Wake, Pitt, ND, SU, Louisville, and BC for ballast chief, I think the Catholics would find that basketball acceptable. The Big East may not be able to hold at 10 or 11 programs long term.

 

[UConnJim]

No one cares about that. The goal is to print as much money as possible, so you'd rather have the biggest name brands with the biggest followings in your portfolio over ones that win the most often. If winning was a metric that mattered even a little bit, we'd have been one of the most sought after schools over the last couple of decades. No school has hoisted more championship trophies in front of a national TV audience over the last 20 years than UConn.

Conference realignment has been driven by football, not basketball. If UConn football had won championships in the AAC like UCF, Cincy, and Houston did, UConn would have been invited to the Big 12.

If you look at college football attendance over time, the schools with the highest attendance and largest stadiums are the schools that win the most. Do you think Alabama, Georgia, Florida, Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State... fans will be happy with 7-5 seasons and fill the stadium? Look at FSU. Dominated the ACC and won national championships. When the team struggled, attendance declined from about 80k per game down to the 50ks per game.

 

[CL82]

Conference realignment has been driven by football, not basketball. If UConn football had won championships in the AAC like UCF, Cincy, and Houston did, UConn would have been invited to the Big 12.

Conference championships have absolutely nothing to do with the selection of schools to join the P5 conferences. What championship did Rutgers win to get it into the Big Ten? UConn won the big east conference, twice, and yet we were left on the island of misfit toys, known as the American Athletic Conference.

Although conference expansion justifications change with each round of realignment, if you had to pick a particular driving factor, and being located in a major population center, that is currently not represented in a conference is probably a key indicator.

If you look at college football attendance over time, the schools with the highest attendance and largest stadiums are the schools that win the most. Do you think Alabama, Georgia, Florida, Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State... fans will be happy with 7-5 seasons and fill the stadium? Look at FSU. Dominated the ACC and won national championships. When the team struggled, attendance declined from about 80k per game down to the 50ks per game.

I think you may be confusing correlation and causation. Successful football programs draw more fans. I think we should see the impact of last season in this season’s football attendance numbers, particularly if we get off to a good start.

 

[jostar1]

 

[Jbirdp5]

All the speculation is fun but we have to speculate on what the end game even is. 10 years ago we had to get in a P5 conference. Today I am not nearly as concerned because everyone not in the P2 is trying to figure out the angles. A version of an East Coast conference although not making the same bank as the others would be fine with me. I still maintain a Big East-ACC hybrid could be a unique survivor because the Northeast/Mid-Atlantic is simply different than the rest of the country.

This is probably my dream scenario, we don’t have to leave the big east which we all love as a basketball conference, and we gain a decent and consistent football schedule. We also could possibly have yearly matchups with duke on the hardwood which would be good for visibility and recruiting. I don’t know how realistic something like this would ever be.

 

[Fairfield_1st]

Duke also could possibly have yearly matchups with us on the hardwood which would be good for their visibility and recruiting.

FIFY. It's a subtle difference, but we're the Big Dog and they would be getting the added visibility.

 

[TGW93]

This is probably my dream scenario, we don’t have to leave the big east which we all love as a basketball conference, and we gain a decent and consistent football schedule. We also could possibly have yearly matchups with duke on the hardwood which would be good for visibility and recruiting. I don’t know how realistic something like this would ever be.

It's a plausible outcome - especially since it lets ND remain independent in FB (which I think remains their sole objective).

Eighteen basketball schools under the Big East brand - a powerhouse league and tourney at MSG.

The football-playing schools could have a football-specific conference called the Atlantic Coast Conference - all football money from that conference is segregated from the Big East. Add a few other schools to the football conference - Army, Navy, Temple, USF, James Madison, ECU (e.g., schools "in-footprint") - and as long as it has access to a playoff spot (even if the access is shared with ND) it could thrive.

 

[UConnJim]

Conference championships have absolutely nothing to do with the selection of schools to join the P5 conferences. What championship did Rutgers win to get it into the Big Ten? UConn won the big east conference, twice, and yet we were left on the island of misfit toys, known as the American Athletic Conference.

Getting a call up from the G5 to P5 has been almost solely based on football performance. Six G5 schools have gotten the call up to the P5: TCU, Utah, Cincy, Houston, UCF, and BYU. All of the schools were doing very well in football before they were called up. Here were their records in the 4 years before they moved conferences and number of Top 25 final poll rankings:

TCU: 47-5 (4 Top 25 finishes)
Utah: 42-10. (3)
Cincy: 42-9 (3)
UCF: 37-12. (2) 5 years ago they were 13-0.
Houston: 27-20 (1)
BYU: 35-16. (2)

The Big East was a BCS conference, not a G5 conference. Rutgers was mediocre in football, but they showed their commitment to football by expanding their stadium before they got the Big 10 invite, they were an AAU university, and they brought NYC and NJ cable boxes.

 

[CL82]

Rutgers was mediocre in football, but they showed their commitment to football by expanding their stadium before they got the Big 10 invite, they were an AAU university, and they brought NYC and NJ cable boxes.

You kind of make my point for me here. Rutgers didn’t have on the field success, but “showed commitment” and was located in the right spot. He seem to be looking at the last round of expansion and defining, all conference realignment by it. Practically speaking, football success hasn’t been the engine that drives it cable boxes has been. In the future, that will change from cable boxes, to “potential online subscribers”. Conference realignment isn’t about making conference is better, it’s about making conference’s richer.

 

[TheCatsLair]

You kind of make my point for me here. Rutgers didn’t have on the field success, but “showed commitment” and was located in the right spot. He seem to be looking at the last round of expansion and defining, all conference realignment by it. Practically speaking, football success hasn’t been the engine that drives it cable boxes has been. In the future, that will change from cable boxes, to “potential online subscribers”. Conference realignment isn’t about making conference is better, it’s about making conference’s richer.

But there are different levels. On-field success is important for non-power conferences schools but schools jumping from one power conference to another are already in the club and far more often than not are given the benefit of the doubt based on "potential" something non-BCS/G5 rarely given.

 

[Ldandy]

It's a plausible outcome - especially since it lets ND remain independent in FB (which I think remains their sole objective).

Eighteen basketball schools under the Big East brand - a powerhouse league and tourney at MSG.

The football-playing schools could have a football-specific conference called the Atlantic Coast Conference - all football money from that conference is segregated from the Big East. Add a few other schools to the football conference - Army, Navy, Temple, USF, James Madison, ECU (e.g., schools "in-footprint") - and as long as it has access to a playoff spot (even if the access is shared with ND) it could thrive.

Let me get this straight. You're good with the idea of a hybrid sports conference comprised of basketball only Catholic Schools and FBS Level Football Schools? A conference that would allow ND to fully benefit while giving next to nothing of value back? Where have I seen this before? UConn Fans don't walk, run from this. Tell your AD and president to call Yormak everyday until he either says yes or puts a restraining order on your entire leadership.

 

[CL82]

But there are different levels. On-field success is important for non-power conferences schools but schools jumping from one power conference to another are already in the club and far more often than not are given the benefit of the doubt based on "potential" something non-BCS/G5 rarely given.

I’m not convinced that it matters much. You have to be in the club, have to play D1 football, but the value of on the field success is probably limited to brand recognition.

 

[hoopsfan22]

I’m not convinced that it matters much. You have to be in the club, have to play D1 football, but the value of on the field success is probably limited to brand recognition.

That's been my argument. The B1G has been a loser conference for almost my entire (relatively short) life and still rakes in the big bucks. I think the last time I saw a team win anything on national TV was Ohio State's championship a decade ago, and before that who knows. They didn't bring on Rutgers and Maryland because of their storied football success or to provide cannon fodder for Penn State on the eastern flank of the conference. They were brought in for a share of the 30 million potential viewers in the I-95 corridor from NYC metro on down to the DC metro. The most recent additions from California bring an 18 million person metro area. The B1G is going after the population centers because that equals viewers which equals dollars. Big schools with big brands and big alumni bases and big population centers - that's the current strategy in a nutshell.

 

[Jbirdp5]

Let me get this straight. You're good with the idea of a hybrid sports conference comprised of basketball only Catholic Schools and FBS Level Football Schools? A conference that would allow ND to fully benefit while giving next to nothing of value back? Where have I seen this before? UConn Fans don't walk, run from this. Tell your AD and president to call Yormak everyday until he either says yes or puts a restraining order on your entire leadership.

Geographical outliers rarely do well in their conferences. The big 12 sounds good til our players are flying all over the south weekly.

 

[billybud]

Every year. the B1G has some of the most watched games on TV....that is the value...

 

[businesslawyer]

Let me get this straight. You're good with the idea of a hybrid sports conference comprised of basketball only Catholic Schools and FBS Level Football Schools? A conference that would allow ND to fully benefit while giving next to nothing of value back? Where have I seen this before? UConn Fans don't walk, run from this. Tell your AD and president to call Yormak everyday until he either says yes or puts a restraining order on your entire leadership.

Your point makes sense from a PSU perspective, not a UConn perspective. Would I prefer a P5 conference with no hoops onlies? Of course I would. Would a take a hybrid ACC/Big East over where we are now with football without a conference and hoops dependent on the Big East not being cut out when one day big time football leaves the NCAA? Also of course I would.

 

[billybud]

Geographical outliers rarely do well in their conferences. The big 12 sounds good til our players are flying all over the south weekly.

Well, come on down...to Tallahassee, Clemson, GT, UNC, NC State, Wake, Miami etc...

But you are right about ACC outliers...Cuse and BC .

 

[CL82]

Your point makes sense from a PSU perspective, not a UConn perspective. Would I prefer a P5 conference with no hoops onlies? Of course I would. Would a take a hybrid ACC/Big East over where we are now with football without a conference and hoops dependent on the Big East not being cut out when one day big time football leaves the NCAA? Also of course I would.

I agree, in theory. In practice, the interests of the basketball only’s and the football playing schools, maybe to divergent for any union of them to have stability.

 

[businesslawyer]

I agree, in theory. In practice, the interests of the basketball only’s and the football playing schools, maybe to divergent for any union of them to have stability.

I agree with that. But if the union comes apart, at least we’re now associated with other P5 football schools.

 

[Ldandy]

I agree, in theory. In practice, the interests of the basketball only’s and the football playing schools, maybe to divergent for any union of them to have stability.

This.

The fundamental issue that hastened the demise of the original Big East would exist in this league, but potentially be even greater due to the economic pressures of the current media landscape. The needs of a school attempting to operate a successful FBS Football Program are far different than those seeking to operate an FCS Program or none at all.

For any conference to work long term the programs in it need to view it as mutually beneficial as well as feeling collectively stronger together than apart. Is Marquette going to care if UConn Football is struggling to retain coaches, recruit decent players, or put fans in the stands? As long as it doesn't tank the basketball team they could not care less if UConn can't keep the lights on in the stadium.

 

[Husky25]

If Big time "college" football breaks from the NCAA, is it really college football anymore? Will players be beholden to APR requirements? If not, will it be worth it for these institutions to sponsor such non-curricular activities? Will it force the NFL to follow the NBA and provide a G League of sorts? If so, who gets the media money? 'Cause the networks have already demonstrated that there is not enough to go around.

If Herbst was correct about anything, it was that athletics are the front porch of an institution. State schools in SEC country need athletics to drive enrollment and maintain the façade of a worthwhile education, but without football and all else being equal, what is the appeal of the University of Alabama for a Texas kid that has how many other local options that are better or offer more prestige?

 

[billybud]

If athletes become employees...they should also be students...if not, what you end up with are university sponsored and branded teams.

I read somewhere that the majority of "fans" of most major college teams never attended school there. They pick a team for their allegance.

 

[Kolumbo]

This.

The fundamental issue that hastened the demise of the original Big East would exist in this league, but potentially be even greater due to the economic pressures of the current media landscape. The needs of a school attempting to operate a successful FBS Football Program are far different than those seeking to operate an FCS Program or none at all.

For any conference to work long term the programs in it need to view it as mutually beneficial as well as feeling collectively stronger together than apart. Is Marquette going to care if UConn Football is struggling to retain coaches, recruit decent players, or put fans in the stands? As long as it doesn't tank the basketball team they could not care less if UConn can't keep the lights on in the stadium.

I don't think their interests would be so different. Play in a great conference and make money. The Catholic 7 left because the Big East was becoming a weaker basketball conference given the new additions. A merger of sorts with Duke, Wake et al is an entirely different kind of conference, altogether.