It's a Brave New World in WBB | Page 3 | The Boneyard

It's a Brave New World in WBB

Joined
Feb 19, 2017
Messages
1,600
Reaction Score
12,163
You forgot the three shots she was fouled on, where she was 6-6 from the foul line...6 points equaling the same amount of points as if she made all three shots... 8-16 (adjusted) 18 points , just two points under her average....HARDLY OWNED.
 
Joined
Dec 8, 2019
Messages
1,325
Reaction Score
9,339
You forgot the three shots she was fouled on, where she was 6-6 from the foul line...6 points equaling the same amount of points as if she made all three shots... 8-16 (adjusted) 18 points , just two points under her average....HARDLY OWNED.
Stats lie, you can argue the verb and spin stats but Bueckers did not have a huge impact on the game. Does not take away from her tremendous year one iota but while her stats are fairly comparable to McDonalds their respective influences on the game were light years apart.
 
Joined
Sep 9, 2015
Messages
2,014
Reaction Score
10,802
Paige's problem wasn't Aari, it was the lack of options for her to utilize. Buckets' game is not about scoring. If her teammates had stepped up and made fairly easy shots at the rim, there would have been no pressure on Paige to force the issue. Better still, UConn would have won the game comfortably.
No player in wcbb can carry a team alone. The nation's top scorer at Iowa could only take her team so far; without balance every team is at an ultimate disadvantage.
 

TheFarmFan

Stanford Fan, Huskies Admirer
Joined
Nov 28, 2018
Messages
1,949
Reaction Score
13,852
Another aspect in the future direction of WBB, is the development of more and more players who can create their own offense. For UConn fans who love the beautiful symphony of movement and passing that always places the Huskies among the nation’s assist leaders, I understand the reluctance to accept the inevitable change that will promote more one-on-one isolation play.

The 2014-15 UConn team still holds the all time NCAA record with 828 assists, or 21+ per game. But if we look at each of the past 4 national semifinal losses by the Huskies, one pattern emerged. Good defensive teams took UConn out of their offense by not allowing easy backdoor cuts or wide open catch and shoot 3’s, forcing UConn to play a style they were both less comfortable with and less effective at.

Going forward, among all the many talents that Paige possesses, her wonderful ability to create her own shot is the most important, imo, whether it’s off a high ball screen or simply a straight isolation. Add in the fact that both Christyn and Evina are pretty good at putting the ball on the floor and getting to their mid-range jumper or all the way to the rim and that’s an excellent trio of players who are capable of creating their own offense.

Finally, there is the prospect of Azzi, maybe the best HS player I’ve ever seen at getting to her “spot” and scoring. Hardly a “catch and shoot” player, Azzi is one of only a handful of WBB players who is adept at creating space at the arc off the dribble without losing accuracy shooting the ball. Azzi is even better at creating her own shot from mid-range with a textbook jumper that is absolutely a thing of beauty.
Between Haley Jones, Paige, and Azzi, that's three straight number one recruits who can really create their own offense in ways quite outstanding for a freshman and unusual even for a lot of top senior guards.
 

oldude

bamboo lover
Joined
Nov 15, 2016
Messages
16,818
Reaction Score
148,688
Between Haley Jones, Paige, and Azzi, that's three straight number one recruits who can really create their own offense in ways quite outstanding for a freshman and unusual even for a lot of top senior guards.
Haley Jones = the one that got away
 
Joined
Nov 6, 2012
Messages
3,417
Reaction Score
9,306
Breanna would guard Diana, Morgan would guard Swin and Moriah would guard Sue. Diana would guard Breanna, Swin would guard Morgan and Sue would guard Moriah.
 
Joined
Feb 3, 2018
Messages
1,280
Reaction Score
3,990
I've said it dozens of times, not necessarily here: If it weren't for traveling, the NBA would have no game.
You've said it dozens of times because it's old news. Watch a game! They've legislated traveling out of the NBA long ago. Harden's step-back is another story. Reminds me a little of the KLS hop before she shot. Harden is a freakishly good offensive player. You can acknowledge that, can't you?
How can people be basketball fans and not appreciate the greatest players on the planet? And arguably the greatest athletes in the world in general. I implore you to WATCH A GAME!!
 

nwhoopfan

hopeless West Coast homer
Joined
Feb 16, 2017
Messages
29,049
Reaction Score
54,193
Wow, there sure is a lot of "get off my lawn" attitude today. Apparently nobody saw the Celtics-Warriors game yesterday. Pure fun! Maybe the BY will go extinct too because of all of these changes to our game. Darn, I wish they had a jump ball after every score like Naismith called for. Darn shot clock, I miss those UVA- UNC games that ended up 8-7.
Sometimes it's not becoming to be so stodgy. It shows a lack of knowledge. (trying to be nice) The NBA is in a really good place right now. The playoffs are a month away and it should be fantastic.
I urge you to watch a game and Covid willing actually go to a game. An NBA game, especially playoff game is truly an event! Give it a try.
I've refrained from commenting about the NBA in general. Merely pointing out how silly it is with some of what they get away with.
 
Joined
Feb 3, 2018
Messages
1,280
Reaction Score
3,990
I've refrained from commenting about the NBA in general. Merely pointing out how silly it is with some of what they get away with.
I honestly think it happens so fast that a certain amount of what you're talking about has to be let go. Television doesn't do it justice. NFL is the same. A friend of mine's cousin, Scott Foster is a prominent NBA ref and my friend told me stories about how Scott would get chastised for some of his calls early in his career. Like a defender slapping Shaq's arms. Every play would be a foul. Remember Shaq inside with 3 people hanging all over him. I think it's like watching Paul Bunyan, John Henry, Green Giant, Godzilla, King Kong, and the Marvel super heroes running around on a 94 foot rectangle. Impossible. I recommend sitting back and just enjoy the spectacle.
Yes, Steph Curry went 11-19 from 3, with people draped all over him, half of them from the parking lot! The greatest shooter in the history of basketball. Enjoy it. You might miss it and you'll be disappointed you did.
 

nwhoopfan

hopeless West Coast homer
Joined
Feb 16, 2017
Messages
29,049
Reaction Score
54,193
I honestly think it happens so fast that a certain amount of what you're talking about has to be let go. Television doesn't do it justice. NFL is the same. A friend of mine's cousin, Scott Foster is a prominent NBA ref and my friend told me stories about how Scott would get chastised for some of his calls early in his career. Like a defender slapping Shaq's arms. Every play would be a foul. Remember Shaq inside with 3 people hanging all over him. I think it's like watching Paul Bunyan, John Henry, Green Giant, Godzilla, King Kong, and the Marvel super heroes running around on a 94 foot rectangle. Impossible. I recommend sitting back and just enjoy the spectacle.
Yes, Steph Curry went 11-19 from 3, with people draped all over him, half of them from the parking lot! The greatest shooter in the history of basketball. Enjoy it. You might miss it and you'll be disappointed you did.
I grew up a big Blazers fan, but my NBA fandom was killed off by the superstar treatment. Funny you should bring up Shaq. I know he complained about how much he got fouled, but I remember him putting all 300+ lbs of his body right thru the sternum of countless defenders that were sent sprawling. Not only was an offensive foul almost never called against Shaq, most of the time the hapless defender got tagged w/ a foul. For just standing there and getting annihilated by a freak of nature. The worst ever was a playoff game against the Blazers. Shaq dunked it, did a pull up on the rim, swung his legs forward and karate kicked Sabonis in the chest. Sabonis grabbed onto Shaq's foot so he didn't fall over backward. Foul on Sabonis of course. Should have been a foul, T and probably thrown out of the game against Shaq. I just couldn't deal with that kind of garbage. I think the last straw was when the refs blatantly stole a Western Conference Championship series from the Kings and handed it to Shaq and Kobe in the mid 90s. I haven't followed the NBA more than casually since then. Stern was a habitual liar and a crook, and he was running the league for decades. He's long gone, but I just couldn't bring myself to go back to being a fan. (BRoy was a stud for a few years before his knees fell apart and Dame is a monster for the Blazers, but I hardly ever watch them)
 

triaddukefan

Tobacco Road Gastronomer
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
19,358
Reaction Score
59,032
I grew up a big Blazers fan, but my NBA fandom was killed off by the superstar treatment. Funny you should bring up Shaq. I know he complained about how much he got fouled, but I remember him putting all 300+ lbs of his body right thru the sternum of countless defenders that were sent sprawling. Not only was an offensive foul almost never called against Shaq, most of the time the hapless defender got tagged w/ a foul. For just standing there and getting annihilated by a freak of nature. The worst ever was a playoff game against the Blazers. Shaq dunked it, did a pull up on the rim, swung his legs forward and karate kicked Sabonis in the chest. Sabonis grabbed onto Shaq's foot so he didn't fall over backward. Foul on Sabonis of course. Should have been a foul, T and probably thrown out of the game against Shaq. I just couldn't deal with that kind of garbage. I think the last straw was when the refs blatantly stole a Western Conference Championship series from the Kings and handed it to Shaq and Kobe in the mid 90s. I haven't followed the NBA more than casually since then. Stern was a habitual liar and a crook, and he was running the league for decades. He's long gone, but I just couldn't bring myself to go back to being a fan. (BRoy was a stud for a few years before his knees fell apart and Dame is a monster for the Blazers, but I hardly ever watch them)

davidstern.gif



I just watched that replay of that Shaq dunk... and they gave a tech to Sabonis..
 
Joined
Nov 4, 2018
Messages
1,984
Reaction Score
13,055
The fundamental question in any basketball game is what do you do with your possessions. Since the opposing team gets the ball after a made basket, each team ultimately has approximately the same amount of possessions each game. So how many points do you average for each possession during a game, and how many times can you stop your opponent from capitalizing on their possessions. That's why turnovers are such an important statistic, as it represents both stopping your opponent from capitalizing on a possession and gives your team another opportunity to score.

There is little question that the existence of the 3 point line, and an increased ability to shoot effectively from it, has altered the game. Yes, it does allow the opportunity to score 3 points instead of 2 (Paige, at almost 50% from 3 for the season, had an effective FG percentage of 75% - 1.5 points per shot from three). But, in my eyes, the primary impact of the increased use of the 3 point line is space. With so many players spotting up outside the 3 point line, there is much more space inside the 3 point line.

There are numerous ripples from this style of play. Post players have more run to operate and are less likely to be doubled and, if they are, can pass out for open looks from 3. There is also more run for cutting and backdoors, as well as better enabling the use of the pick and roll. This spread of offensive players, along with the danger of allowing good shooters and open look at 3 points, places new pressures on the defense.

Defensive players also need to operate in space. It means quick, athletic defenders who can operate in space and can readily switch to cover other players. This is what limits the use of traditional post players. It's not that post players aren't valuable offensively, but that they can be problems on defense if they are not quick enough to guard players other than the opposing team's post player.

I think that we have seen Geno respond to this new reality. Particularly on defense. I don't recall Geno playing as aggressively a switching defense as he has the past few years. UConn switches on almost everything, often jumping out before a player gets to the pick to force the switch, with the other players quickly rotating. Offensively, Geno continues to use a movement offense, but I feel that he has incorporated the pick and roll (particularly with Paige who has an excellent feel for it) more than he has in the past. Furthermore, the use of movement can still incorporate finding players spotting at the 3 point line and, in fact, I expect him to utilize this more next season with the 3 point shooters he will have at his disposal.

Like all sports, the game of basketball is evolving. and as the game changes, the value of some players will decrease and, for others, increase. Players in the mold of big, slow posts where the offense waits for them to post up and can't guard anyone outside the paint are much less valuable than they have been. In comparison, the game has always valued smart, athletic players who can shoot. Now, if anything, the premium for these players is even greater now. I think UConn is well positioned to take advantage of the game's evolution. And it should be really fun to watch.
 

nwhoopfan

hopeless West Coast homer
Joined
Feb 16, 2017
Messages
29,049
Reaction Score
54,193
I just watched that replay of that Shaq dunk... and they gave a tech to Sabonis..
Oof, even worse than I remember it. I was watching that game w/ family in the Eugene area. Room full of people, mostly Blazers fans, but there was a contingent from SoCal rooting for the Lakers. That was a tense living room.
 

triaddukefan

Tobacco Road Gastronomer
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
19,358
Reaction Score
59,032
Oof, even worse than I remember it. I was watching that game w/ family in the Eugene area. Room full of people, mostly Blazers fans, but there was a contingent from SoCal rooting for the Lakers. That was a tense living room.

Never watch a game with mixed company.
 
Joined
Apr 1, 2013
Messages
6,581
Reaction Score
16,220
I honestly think it happens so fast that a certain amount of what you're talking about has to be let go. Television doesn't do it justice. NFL is the same. A friend of mine's cousin, Scott Foster is a prominent NBA ref and my friend told me stories about how Scott would get chastised for some of his calls early in his career. Like a defender slapping Shaq's arms. Every play would be a foul. Remember Shaq inside with 3 people hanging all over him. I think it's like watching Paul Bunyan, John Henry, Green Giant, Godzilla, King Kong, and the Marvel super heroes running around on a 94 foot rectangle. Impossible. I recommend sitting back and just enjoy the spectacle.
Yes, Steph Curry went 11-19 from 3, with people draped all over him, half of them from the parking lot! The greatest shooter in the history of basketball. Enjoy it. You might miss it and you'll be disappointed you did.

Last night's game was absolutely incredible. It's great to see a small guard have such an enormous impact hitting so many amazing amazing shots.

He's the antithesis of low-post power basketball which is in part why I love it. Not just one way to win.

I suppose this is why I love the UCONN women as much as I do. While I would love for him to have every year the great post players along with the great guards and wings- the super elite posts never seem to come while UCONN gets the elite guards and wings.

I prefer the style of play of guards/wings running and playing fast-paced basketball over the pound-and-grind game or near similar.

So last night when Curry was doing his thing and Tatum was also on fire- it was an amazing spectacle for anyone that loves to watch skill. Perimeter play- I love it!
 
Joined
Apr 19, 2020
Messages
882
Reaction Score
6,682
Position-less basketball will never eliminate the need for a Big who can rebound and defend the Paint. But it will require Bigs who are more athletic, can defend out on the perimeter, pass the ball and, hopefully, shoot the ball reasonably well beyond 5’ from the basket.
Great point. There are always going to be post bangers like Boston and Cunane, they’re just now going to also have a 3 point shot
 
Joined
Feb 3, 2018
Messages
1,280
Reaction Score
3,990
Last night's game was absolutely incredible. It's great to see a small guard have such an enormous impact hitting so many amazing amazing shots.

He's the antithesis of low-post power basketball which is in part why I love it. Not just one way to win.

I suppose this is why I love the UCONN women as much as I do. While I would love for him to have every year the great post players along with the great guards and wings- the super elite posts never seem to come while UCONN gets the elite guards and wings.

I prefer the style of play of guards/wings running and playing fast-paced basketball over the pound-and-grind game or near similar.

So last night when Curry was doing his thing and Tatum was also on fire- it was an amazing spectacle for anyone that loves to watch skill. Perimeter play- I love it!
Great weekend showcase of NBA. Hope you also got a glimpse of perhaps the new prototypical post player- Bam Adebayo for Miami. What a performance against the Nets. I felt good for him hitting that shot at the buzzer! Like Jonathan said, the days of the big, lumbering big may be waning.
 

Gus Mahler

Popular Composer
Joined
Mar 31, 2015
Messages
4,849
Reaction Score
17,852
You've said it dozens of times because it's old news. Right. Watch a game! I started watching NBA ball in the mid-60s and watched for decades. They've legislated traveling out of the NBA long ago. Right again. Harden's step-back is another story. Reminds me a little of the KLS hop before she shot. Harden is a freakishly good offensive player. You can acknowledge that, can't you? No. I don't have to acknowledge anything. How can people be basketball fans and not appreciate the greatest players on the planet? Seems easy to me. And arguably the greatest athletes in the world in general I'll give you that. I implore you to WATCH A GAME!! Probably not.
 

oldude

bamboo lover
Joined
Nov 15, 2016
Messages
16,818
Reaction Score
148,688
Great point. There are always going to be post bangers like Boston and Cunane, they’re just now going to also have a 3 point shot
Boston actually hits an occasional 3, but I sure wouldn’t want her taking them when they really count, like in OT of the UConn game, when she found herself with the ball in her hands at the top of the key and inexplicably stepped back to the arc and fired away, missing a bad shot at a critical time of the game.
 
Joined
Feb 19, 2017
Messages
1,600
Reaction Score
12,163
The fundamental question in any basketball game is what do you do with your possessions. Since the opposing team gets the ball after a made basket, each team ultimately has approximately the same amount of possessions each game. So how many points do you average for each possession during a game, and how many times can you stop your opponent from capitalizing on their possessions. That's why turnovers are such an important statistic, as it represents both stopping your opponent from capitalizing on a possession and gives your team another opportunity to score.

There is little question that the existence of the 3 point line, and an increased ability to shoot effectively from it, has altered the game. Yes, it does allow the opportunity to score 3 points instead of 2 (Paige, at almost 50% from 3 for the season, had an effective FG percentage of 75% - 1.5 points per shot from three). But, in my eyes, the primary impact of the increased use of the 3 point line is space. With so many players spotting up outside the 3 point line, there is much more space inside the 3 point line.

There are numerous ripples from this style of play. Post players have more run to operate and are less likely to be doubled and, if they are, can pass out for open looks from 3. There is also more run for cutting and backdoors, as well as better enabling the use of the pick and roll. This spread of offensive players, along with the danger of allowing good shooters and open look at 3 points, places new pressures on the defense.

Defensive players also need to operate in space. It means quick, athletic defenders who can operate in space and can readily switch to cover other players. This is what limits the use of traditional post players. It's not that post players aren't valuable offensively, but that they can be problems on defense if they are not quick enough to guard players other than the opposing team's post player.

I think that we have seen Geno respond to this new reality. Particularly on defense. I don't recall Geno playing as aggressively a switching defense as he has the past few years. UConn switches on almost everything, often jumping out before a player gets to the pick to force the switch, with the other players quickly rotating. Offensively, Geno continues to use a movement offense, but I feel that he has incorporated the pick and roll (particularly with Paige who has an excellent feel for it) more than he has in the past. Furthermore, the use of movement can still incorporate finding players spotting at the 3 point line and, in fact, I expect him to utilize this more next season with the 3 point shooters he will have at his disposal.

Like all sports, the game of basketball is evolving. and as the game changes, the value of some players will decrease and, for others, increase. Players in the mold of big, slow posts where the offense waits for them to post up and can't guard anyone outside the paint are much less valuable than they have been. In comparison, the game has always valued smart, athletic players who can shoot. Now, if anything, the premium for these players is even greater now. I think UConn is well positioned to take advantage of the game's evolution. And it should be really fun to watch.
Its nice to read a post where someone understands the OP, and gets the gist of the points made. Well said!!
 
Joined
Apr 1, 2013
Messages
6,581
Reaction Score
16,220
Great weekend showcase of NBA. Hope you also got a glimpse of perhaps the new prototypical post player- Bam Adebayo for Miami. What a performance against the Nets. I felt good for him hitting that shot at the buzzer! Like Jonathan said, the days of the big, lumbering big may be waning.

No. When that game was going on I was in my car and I caught a part of it. Actually I listened to the point of about 3:20 left when the Nets were ahead. I had errands. Came back to car and heard they lost. But he looks so fluid for a big. Built like a mack truck. Can run the pg on fastbreaks. Russell could do that but not many.

But as for the NBA- I don't see many NBA games any more. Between baseball and other things - so I had to slow down watching. But I did catch Curry again tonight. Did you? Another amazing game - 49 points.

For anyone with a thought of being interested as MD has said just watch him - go on youtube and watch him. He's a little guy whose shot is breathtakingly unreal. Think of how hot Paige was. Or when Maya or DT was on a roll. They are 25 feet+ from the basket - Curry has broken a record for 30 footers. And he's so small vs so many. And he still can't be stopped.

As olddude points out - the game is changing. But bruising basketball will always be around and still a force to win titles. The big girl from SC and the bigs from Baylor and Stanford ofc are a big worries.
 
Joined
Feb 3, 2018
Messages
1,280
Reaction Score
3,990
No. When that game was going on I was in my car and I caught a part of it. Actually I listened to the point of about 3:20 left when the Nets were ahead. I had errands. Came back to car and heard they lost. But he looks so fluid for a big. Built like a mack truck. Can run the pg on fastbreaks. Russell could do that but not many.

But as for the NBA- I don't see many NBA games any more. Between baseball and other things - so I had to slow down watching. But I did catch Curry again tonight. Did you? Another amazing game - 49 points.

For anyone with a thought of being interested as MD has said just watch him - go on youtube and watch him. He's a little guy whose shot is breathtakingly unreal. Think of how hot Paige was. Or when Maya or DT was on a roll. They are 25 feet+ from the basket - Curry has broken a record for 30 footers. And he's so small vs so many. And he still can't be stopped.

As olddude points out - the game is changing. But bruising basketball will always be around and still a force to win titles. The big girl from SC and the bigs from Baylor and Stanford ofc are a big worries.
I’m a Yankee fan, so I’m watching more NBA this spring. I’m coming home from Alaska finally. Hope to catch some live games. Would pay to watch a Sixer- Celtic playoff game if they let fans in.
 
Joined
Jan 9, 2020
Messages
885
Reaction Score
2,618
At one of the FF pressers a reporter asked Geno how the WNBA had influenced WCBB. Geno took a somewhat different tack in his answer, talking about how the NBA had influenced WCBB and basketball in general. He spoke about “position-less” basketball and spreading the floor where everyone can shoot the 3. If you watch the NBA recently, that is primarily how the games are played. That style of play has certainly filtered into both MCBB as well as the WNBA, and it is slowly but surely making its way into WCBB as well,

You need look no further than the BE to see a bunch of teams who spread the floor and shoot 3’s. In the case of the BE, this strategy is as much out of necessity as anything else. Doug Bruno’s DePaul teams have largely dominated the conference as an early proponent of spreading the floor and shooting 3’s. In addition, other than UConn, the rest of the BE does not have the size or overall talent to grind it out every night like the SEC.

Beyond the BE, the number of teams that are moving in the direction of the “spread the floor, shoot the 3" offensive mindset is growing significantly. IMO, the most talented team to fully embrace this type of basketball is MD. The Sweet 16 battle between a MD team that wanted to run the floor and shoot 3’s and a TX team that walked the ball up the court, used the 30-second clock and pounded the ball inside was truly a battle between the future and the past. In that instance, the past prevailed. But it was probably the biggest upset of the Tournament.

UConn is not all the way there yet, but the 2016 team had 5 talented players who could all knock down 3’s, and there was no team in the country that came within 10 points of beating them. This year Geno surprised many by going largely with a 4-guard offense that worked particularly well up until Nika’s injury. After the AR game, when the Razorbacks swarmed Liv in the low post, UConn gravitated to an offense that often left the lane open for players to drive to the basket, cut backdoor or pick and roll, effectively spreading the floor.

As WBB continues to evolve in this direction, I think it will have a significant impact on personnel. While small. explosive guards like Crystal Dangerfield and Aari McDonald will always be around, top teams will put a premium on big guards and wings who can shoot it, attack the basket, defend out to the arc and battle in the post on defense if they get caught on a switch against a Big.

More significantly, I personally believe the days of dominant post players like Aaliyah Boston and Elissa Cunane are numbered. I grew up before the 3-pt shot, watching the titanic battles between Wilt Chamberlain and Bill Russell. In today’s NBA, Chamberlain and Russell would have to develop significantly different skillsets to be effective.

In WBB, players with size who can handle the ball and shoot it are increasingly prominent: Nalyssa Smith, Ashton Prechtel and hopefully Dorka Juhasz to name a few. The gold standard of course are players like Stewie and EDD. I know, great players like Stewie and EDD don’t grow on trees. But right now, there are literally thousands of tall young girls, dribbling a basketball wherever they go and practicing 3-pt shots until they can’t lift their arms. It’s a Brave New World in WBB.

As with most everything, the truth is somewhere in the middle. I disagree that bigs like Boston and Cunane are "numbered". We can also talk about Lauren Cox and Teaira McCowan in recent years, or even Oregon's Ruthy Hebard, who was a 4 more than a 5 but averaged 16.0+ ppg and 9.0+ rpg and .650 FG% for her career, but never attempted a single 3-pt shot.

And its origins are Chamberlain, Russell, and Abdul-Jabbar: they ALWAYS have been numbered. People talk about Jordan being the greatest NBA player ever. But Jordan could only DREAM of dominating his era the way Wilt did his, stat wise. Wilt only didn't win many titles, because Russell and the Celtics had their historic run during his era.

But when they do pop up among us, they'll NEVER be square-pegged into round holes of being fast, skinny, face-the-basket jump-shooters. Those teams that are fortunate to get players of that rare kind will be.......fortunate to get players of that rare kind.

The problems are for the "rest of us". In the past bigs who were not rare talents were still taught to try and play like them, and they got dominated. And they always will. In the past, the 3-pt. line was considered more of a novelty: like at the local town fair - hit the ducky on the pin wheel with the BB-gun, and win the stuffed teddy bear. It was used more as a last-second last gasp, or for sharpshooters who were really feeling it. It still is today, but now it's more of an actual strategy for offenses, while in the past it was never that.

But days of dominant post players will still be with us, whenever they pop up from time to time. The defenses will get spread out to deal with the guards and wings shooting the threes, but the bigs won't have to go outside very much - the other bigs they defend won't be among the best of the shooters. If anything, the spreading of defenses will only HELP - not hurt - the truly special bigs to dominate even more, as long as the coaching staffs teach their smalls to pass to them. It should help generate more passing, more assists, more wide-open offense all around. Reduce the clogging of the paint defensively.

This season everyone talked about Boston's dominance for South Carolina - also Cunane's impact for NC St. Last season Cox was a major topic here for Baylor, and how they played depending on her being available or not. The days of the TRULY big girls haven't descended with the sunset. Not yet. We're all still waiting for the next one to show.....
 
Joined
Jan 9, 2020
Messages
885
Reaction Score
2,618
I honestly think it happens so fast that a certain amount of what you're talking about has to be let go. Television doesn't do it justice. NFL is the same. A friend of mine's cousin, Scott Foster is a prominent NBA ref and my friend told me stories about how Scott would get chastised for some of his calls early in his career. Like a defender slapping Shaq's arms. Every play would be a foul. Remember Shaq inside with 3 people hanging all over him. I think it's like watching Paul Bunyan, John Henry, Green Giant, Godzilla, King Kong, and the Marvel super heroes running around on a 94 foot rectangle. Impossible. I recommend sitting back and just enjoy the spectacle.
Yes, Steph Curry went 11-19 from 3, with people draped all over him, half of them from the parking lot! The greatest shooter in the history of basketball. Enjoy it. You might miss it and you'll be disappointed you did.

Meh. 43% is still 43%. Used to be NBA staffs would jump on their players to not take so many threes. Once there were guys who regularly shot .50% or better from the arc, but they took much much fewer attempts. The idea was, "great, you're hitting 45%-50% from the three, but pass it to the bigs who are hitting 55%-60% from the paint, AND they are getting fouled which means the other team's bigs are getting into foul trouble". Plus, taking a ton of deep perimeter shots often remove the token carom away from the reach of the bigs - the very same guys who are paid to lead their teams in rebounds.

A guy who drives the paint and takes mid-range 10-15 ft. jumpers hitting 11-19 is great. It's almost Michael Jordan-level, although with him it'd be more like 14-25. But Jordan took a ton more of his shots at or just above the rim, so he was a better overall shooter than Curry has ever been.

If Curry had more of these 11-19 shooting games throughout the season, THEN I'd be more impressed. As it is, he's not even the best active 3-pt shooting NBA player in the family, currently.......
 

oldude

bamboo lover
Joined
Nov 15, 2016
Messages
16,818
Reaction Score
148,688
As with most everything, the truth is somewhere in the middle. I disagree that bigs like Boston and Cunane are "numbered". We can also talk about Lauren Cox and Teaira McCowan in recent years, or even Oregon's Ruthy Hebard, who was a 4 more than a 5 but averaged 16.0+ ppg and 9.0+ rpg and .650 FG% for her career, but never attempted a single 3-pt shot.

And its origins are Chamberlain, Russell, and Abdul-Jabbar: they ALWAYS have been numbered. People talk about Jordan being the greatest NBA player ever. But Jordan could only DREAM of dominating his era the way Wilt did his, stat wise. Wilt only didn't win many titles, because Russell and the Celtics had their historic run during his era.

But when they do pop up among us, they'll NEVER be square-pegged into round holes of being fast, skinny, face-the-basket jump-shooters. Those teams that are fortunate to get players of that rare kind will be.......fortunate to get players of that rare kind.

The problems are for the "rest of us". In the past bigs who were not rare talents were still taught to try and play like them, and they got dominated. And they always will. In the past, the 3-pt. line was considered more of a novelty: like at the local town fair - hit the ducky on the pin wheel with the BB-gun, and win the stuffed teddy bear. It was used more as a last-second last gasp, or for sharpshooters who were really feeling it. It still is today, but now it's more of an actual strategy for offenses, while in the past it was never that.

But days of dominant post players will still be with us, whenever they pop up from time to time. The defenses will get spread out to deal with the guards and wings shooting the threes, but the bigs won't have to go outside very much - the other bigs they defend won't be among the best of the shooters. If anything, the spreading of defenses will only HELP - not hurt - the truly special bigs to dominate even more, as long as the coaching staffs teach their smalls to pass to them. It should help generate more passing, more assists, more wide-open offense all around. Reduce the clogging of the paint defensively.

This season everyone talked about Boston's dominance for South Carolina - also Cunane's impact for NC St. Last season Cox was a major topic here for Baylor, and how they played depending on her being available or not. The days of the TRULY big girls haven't descended with the sunset. Not yet. We're all still waiting for the next one to show.....
Interesting analysis. I don’t necessarily believe that Bigs must be able to shoot 3’s in my Brave New World. But they need to be athletic and consistently be able to hit an open 15’+ jump shot. For that reason I would not include Cox in with Boston & Cunane. Cox consistently makes that shot. In addition, according to Kim Mulkey, Cox was athletic enough to guard any player on the court.

As for Jordan not dominating games like Russell, Chamberlain or Jabbar. Maybe not. But that’s actually the point. If you’re going to spread the floor and shoot the 3, everyone on the team has to contribute.

In another post on this thread I indicate that Bigs will always be around but they will become more athletic with more versatile skill sets. Jabbar was more versatile than Chamberlain. Olajuwon was more versatile than Jabbar. Durant is more versatile than Olajuwon. They are all NBA champions, but in different eras.
 
Last edited:

Online statistics

Members online
537
Guests online
3,707
Total visitors
4,244

Forum statistics

Threads
156,893
Messages
4,069,621
Members
9,951
Latest member
Woody69


Top Bottom