Is Sabrina the G.O.A.T?

[Reypl21]

Funny how in 2017 Ionescu's Oregon lost to UConn 90-52. UConn lacked a center and a power forward, at least according to those who say that a successful team needs a center that has to be BIG and a power forward that has to be at least 6'3" with uber strength. UConn had neither while Oregon had Hebard and the putative GOAT at the point.
How was that possible???????????????????



LOL

They were freshman give them a break. Sheesh. Did you see them plow UConn this year when the roles were reversed?

 

[nwhoopfan]

They were freshman give them a break. Sheesh. Did you see them plow UConn this year when the roles were reversed?

Except UConn had some veterans, they weren't all Frosh and Sophs like Oregon was when they got thumped.

 

[X conn]

Easily above Breanna Stewart.

 

[hoophuskee]

They were freshman give them a break. Sheesh. Did you see them plow UConn this year when the roles were reversed?

The title of this thread "Is Sabrina the GOAT?" Yet when we discuss that her team got pounded - there's the excuse "Well she was just a freshman? I can easily point to two freshmen that were super in the NCAA Tourney as freshmen leading to titles. So as for giving Sabrina "a break" when we discuss GOAT status-- we're supposed to ignore the pounding because she was a frosh while also ignore the frosh that weren't?

I just want to remind some on here- the Sabrina-led team as a frosh didn't "just get beat." They got pummeled. And in that game-- how did she individually perform? I want to remind some on here -- this thread is referring to GOAT. To GOAT. To GOAT. The freshman season regarding who is GOAT counts too.

 

[nwhoopfan]

If we're gonna hold games during a player's Freshman year against them...anybody wanna talk about Taurasi's performance in a loss to Notre Dame during the Final 4? She would probably get the majority of votes for the GOAT, so it seems like her reputation was able to overcome that particular game. Just sayin'.

 

[hoophuskee]

If we're gonna hold games during a player's Freshman year against them...anybody wanna talk about Taurasi's performance in a loss to Notre Dame during the Final 4? She would probably get the majority of votes for the GOAT, so it seems like her reputation was able to overcome that particular game. Just sayin'.

Sure. But then let's look at her leading up the point leading to the final four. She got Player of the Region in her frosh year. How did Sabrina fare in her region?

Now to further your point about DT-- let's look at how many other freshman get named MOST OUTSTANDING PLAYER IN THEIR REGION AS A FROSH.

SO now that you brought up DT-- please advise how many others were most outstanding in their region leading up to Final Four as a freshman?

As we know DT even beat out Sue Bird for that award. Pretty darn impressive. How impressive was Sabrina in the E8 game vs UCONN vs what DT did leading up to the Final Four?

 

[Zanzman]

If we're gonna hold games during a player's Freshman year against them...anybody wanna talk about Taurasi's performance in a loss to Notre Dame during the Final 4? She would probably get the majority of votes for the GOAT, so it seems like her reputation was able to overcome that particular game. Just sayin'.

After the ND game she won 3ncaa titles the last 2 carrying the team on her back can Sabrina say that NO case closed please end the thread

 

[JonathanXIV]

If we're gonna hold games during a player's Freshman year against them...anybody wanna talk about Taurasi's performance in a loss to Notre Dame during the Final 4? She would probably get the majority of votes for the GOAT, so it seems like her reputation was able to overcome that particular game. Just sayin'.

I understand the defensiveness about some of these "attacks." But seriously, as a thoughtful observer of women's basketball can't we agree that this conversation is way, way premature, and unfair to Sabrina. Because if we are having these conversation about her career thus far, can't we all agree that she is not in the GOAT conversation. Maybe, maybe, some day. But compared to Diana, Maya, Cheryl, Tamika, etc., she doesn't belong in this conversation. Yet.

 

[Alydar]

They were freshman give them a break. Sheesh. Did you see them plow UConn this year when the roles were reversed?

Thanks, you made my point. Others have used a lack of size as a reason to dismiss certain players from being effective at certain positions for UConn. Like: "Griffin/Makurat could never play against a true power forward (of Hebard's size)". Hebard as a freshman power forward was inept and ineffectual against Collier in that game despite all her talent and yet some here, prior to the game, would have dismissed her chances against Hebard based solely on a size comparison. Some say that there was no chance for a Collier-sized player from ever being able to handle a true power forward like Hebard.
I was trying to get a response like yours in order to show that it is possible for a 6'1" pseudo-power forward to dominate a 6'3" forward, even one as big & mobile as Hebard. There's more than a "tale of the tape" involved.

Griffin and Makurat were freshmen, just like Hebard was in that game. And size had absolutely nothing to do with which forward was better that day. It was experience. And that is a fact.

 

[Adriacus]

In response to the OP, if a draft was held which included the 22 year old version of every female player from 1980 to the present, Sabrina Ionescu would not be among the first 10 picks. Miller, Leslie, Parker, Griner, Taurasi, Moore, Catchings, Swoopes, Jackson, Thompson, Delle Donne, Stewart, Cambage, etc. would all EASILY be drafted before Ionescu was even ”in the mix“ for consideration. Average measurables, average attainables (athleticism), mediocre D. She is 90% marketing, 10% product.

 

[Reypl21]

Thanks, you made my point. Others have used a lack of size as a reason to dismiss certain players from being effective at certain positions for UConn. Like: "Griffin/Makurat could never play against a true power forward (of Hebard's size)". Hebard as a freshman power forward was inept and ineffectual against Collier in that game despite all her talent and yet some here, prior to the game, would have dismissed her chances against Hebard based solely on a size comparison. Some say that there was no chance for a Collier-sized player from ever being able to handle a true power forward like Hebard.
I was trying to get a response like yours in order to show that it is possible for a 6'1" pseudo-power forward to dominate a 6'3" forward, even one as big & mobile as Hebard. There's more than a "tale of the tape" involved.

Griffin and Makurat were freshmen, just like Hebard was in that game. And size had absolutely nothing to do with which forward was better that day. It was experience. And that is a fact.

Experience does help, but talent and skill is probably the deciding factor with this example. Makurat and Griffin are going to be sophomores, but neither of them will be even close to as good as Napheesa was as a sophomore (which was the year they matched up). Napheesa also has a huge wingspan that allows her to play bigger. She was scoring in the paint against Wilson and Turner earlier that season. I dont think anyone was discounting Napheesa in that matchup. Its too bad Oregon couldn't match up with the Huskies when Pheesa and KLS were around.

 

[Alydar]

You are right.

If we're gonna hold games during a player's Freshman year against them...anybody wanna talk about Taurasi's performance in a loss to Notre Dame during the Final 4? She would probably get the majority of votes for the GOAT, so it seems like her reputation was able to overcome that particular game. Just sayin'.

But Taurasi went on to win 3 titles, the last two with her team on her back. Not so for Sabrina. After her freshman year she never was able to even get to a title game.

 

[Alydar]

Experience does help, but talent and skill is probably the deciding factor with this example. Makurat and Griffin are going to be sophomores, but neither of them will be even close to as good as Napheesa was as a sophomore (which was the year they matched up). Napheesa also has a huge wingspan that allows her to play bigger. She was scoring in the paint against Wilson and Turner earlier that season. I dont think anyone was discounting Napheesa in that matchup. Its too bad Oregon couldn't match up with the Huskies when Pheesa and KLS were around.

I'm not arguing with your POV. I agree that Collier was very effective defending the 4 and gave "true power forwards" fits when they tried to guard her. But if some of the posters here were coaching she would never have been put in that position. No, she would have been put at the wing where she would have shared minutes with Williams who was another wing that couldn't play inside. Why not Williams? Because she was 5'11" and we all know that is far too small to play against 4's and 5's. Wings must play the wing position only. Why, a coach would have to be insane to think those 2 could be effective inside in D1 basketball.




Sarcasm flag is flying.

 

[Reypl21]

You are right.

But Taurasi went on to win 3 titles, the last two with her team on her back. Not so for Sabrina. After her freshman year she never was able to even get to a title game.

This question is dumb, because everyone knows Taurasi is the Goat. But I want to piggy back off of you. I think Sabrina disappeared her sophomore and junior year when they lost. She was hot in the first half against ND, and then got shut down in the second. She had her moments against Baylor, but didn't have enough in the tank. She had more than enough talent at her disposal to win both of those games. I thought that this year could be an SC vs Oregon finish. Who knows how that could have played out. I think that Baylor could have beat them again if they met in the Semifinals. She has zero rings, so there is no way she is even in the discussion for Goat. She can be the goat for players who never won a national championship, maybe.

 

[Shades]

"Her competitive spirit and her toughness reminds me a lot of Diana (Taurasi)."

Kobe recognized the gold standard and GOAT.

Yes, he did. What more needs to be said?

 

[Adriacus]

Ionescu: 1 Final Four, shot 6 for 24 from the field against Baylor in Semis, eliminated. Every season her teams suffered inexplicable regular season losses to much inferior competition.

 

[Alydar]

This question is dumb, because everyone knows Taurasi is the Goat. But I want to piggy back off of you. I think Sabrina disappeared her sophomore and junior year when they lost. She was hot in the first half against ND, and then got shut down in the second. She had her moments against Baylor, but didn't have enough in the tank. She had more than enough talent at her disposal to win both of those games. I thought that this year could be an SC vs Oregon finish. Who knows how that could have played out. I think that Baylor could have beat them again if they met in the Semifinals. She has zero rings, so there is no way she is even in the discussion for Goat. She can be the goat for players who never won a national championship, maybe.

 

[HuskylnSC]

I have never seen a troll post get so much attention as this has generated. Simply answer NO and move on.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Sorry about stirring a hornets nest a bit last night. I don't think I've ever actually said I think Ionescu is the GOAT. I don't believe that she is. Of course Taurasi won 3 Championships and Ionescu won none, that is a stark contrast. I was just pointing out a disappointing single game during a Fr. season.

 

[hoophuskee]

Sorry about stirring a hornets nest a bit last night. I don't think I've ever actually said I think Ionescu is the GOAT. I don't believe that she is. Of course Taurasi won 3 Championships and Ionescu won none, that is a stark contrast. I was just pointing out a disappointing single game during a Fr. season.

The thread is about if Sabrina is GOAT. So why would you do post about DT when you know DT was superior? You mean when I made my post you couldn't figure out for yourself that other years count too? You realize I didn't say freshman year is the only year you count, right? Bottom-line is that your post was so bizarre - that's why you received so many replies. I mean don;t you understand what DT did as a frosh in the NCAA Tourney leading up to the Final Four? That doesn't count? You seriously equated Sabrina and DT the same in this instance?

DT was the ALL-Regional MVP while Sabrina wasn't. So what was your point? Unless you are trying to suggest ALL Region MVP doesn't count? Or are you trying to suggest getting to an E8 is the same as getting to the FF? DT led her team further than Sabrina led hers, right? You can't understand the difference with that combined with a player who is MVP in her Region as a frosh vs the other who clearly wasn't?

You clearly questioned why some fans have DT as number 1 because of my reply. So are you saying that you know how great DT performed leading up the Final Four as freshman, then along with what she achieved afterwards, that you still can't understand why some fans say DT is GOAT over Sabrina? I'll remind you this thread is about Sabrina. -- Seriously?

 

[nwhoopfan]

@hoophuskee you've put a whole lot more thought into this than I did when I made my post. It's really not that serious.

As far as equating things goes, you also can clearly see that that stacked UConn team was nothing like an Oregon team that didn't even have a winning record in conference that season and had been a fairly downtrodden program for quite a while, right? Yes UConn had 2 devastating injuries w/ Svet and Ralph, but they still had a Jr. class of Bird, Cash, Williams and Jones. Oregon had almost nothing as far as upperclassmen go. Getting that Oregon team to the Elite 8 vs. that UConn team to the Final 4 is about as apples and oranges as you can possibly get.

 

[hoophuskee]

@hoophuskee you've put a whole lot more thought into this than I did when I made my post. It's really not that serious.

As far as equating things goes, you also can clearly see that that stacked UConn team was nothing like an Oregon team that didn't even have a winning record in conference that season and had been a fairly downtrodden program for quite a while, right? Yes UConn had 2 devastating injuries w/ Svet and Ralph, but they still had a Jr. class of Bird, Cash, Williams and Jones. Oregon had almost nothing as far as upperclassmen go. Getting that Oregon team to the Elite 8 vs. that UConn team to the Final 4 is about as apples and oranges as you can possibly get.

If this was all apples-to-oranges as you suggest why did you even bring up DT in the 1st place? I didn't bring up DT in this. YOU DID. YOU DID the comparison.

 

[nwhoopfan]

If this was all apples-to-oranges as you suggest why did you even bring up DT in the 1st place? I didn't bring up DT in this. YOU DID. YOU DID the comparison.

My suggestion to you, and you're free to ignore it--let it go! This is a thread that has dragged on for WAY TOO LONG. I made a post in it. It's really meaningless in the grand scheme of things. If you wanna wade back thru 13 pages, I bet I'm not the first person who brought up DT in this thread, but I'm sure the heck not going to go thru the whole thread looking for it. I'm certain several other players have been brought up somewhere along the line. I'm done with this thread, but you can keep having at it if you want to.

 

[hoophuskee]

My suggestion to you, and you're free to ignore it--let it go! This is a thread that has dragged on for WAY TOO LONG. I made a post in it. It's really meaningless in the grand scheme of things. If you wanna wade back thru 13 pages, I bet I'm not the first person who brought up DT in this thread, but I'm sure the heck not going to go thru the whole thread looking for it. I'm certain several other players have been brought up somewhere along the line. I'm done with this thread, but you can keep having at it if you want to.

Great. You seemed to be arguing with me previously though. There's a reason why so many replied to you and in addition why I made further posts to you. For me, I made a simple post that you initially had a problem with. If you don't any longer- great.

 

[ochoopsfan]

Just wanted to make sure this topic didnt fall through the cracks. With Sabrina's 33 points the other night, it certainly solidifies her spot as the GOAT