Iowa vs. Iowa State

[visitingcock]

These are two teams that could rise to the top of their conferences with help from the Portal. Clearly potential two seeds and one could possibly gain a one seed. Possibly [ with portal help

Regardless of transfers, I'm looking forward to this matchup in 2023 and really like the fan support of that state for wbb. Joen's vs Clark is the stuff of State legends that can last for years.

Unfortunately, we don't have many fans of the two schools on this board though I understand Iowa has a pretty big social media presence.

 

[Matthew1589]

These are two teams that could rise to the top of their conferences with help from the Portal. Clearly potential two seeds and one could possibly gain a one seed. Possibly [ with portal help

Regardless of transfers, I'm looking forward to this matchup in 2023 and really like the fan support of that state for wbb. Joen's vs Clark is the stuff of State legends that can last for years.

Unfortunately, we don't have many fans of the two schools on this board though I understand Iowa has a pretty big social media presence.

It's a great rivalry in all sports but WBB is competitive, Iowa won 5 in a row until this past season. WBB in the state is a big draw with Iowa having 3 straight sellouts to close the year, Drake and UNI also draw decent crowds too. Looking forward to next season. Go Hawks!

 

[visitingcock]

Thanks for the reply. Please keep us updated on transfer news, recruiting news etc. Both teams if you can stomach talking about State.

 

[triaddukefan]

Too bad they couldn't meet up in Greensboro

 

[ISUnorth]

So, temping me to post and not just lurk?

Game this next season, in the words of late ISU MBB coach Johnny Orr, should be a "humdinger". I've sort of mellowed out of hard core rivalry for the WBB games. Sure, I want ISU to win it but I don't have the animosity that some rivals have....just doesn't carry over from the other sports. No player on either side has publicly dissed the other school etc and both teams are currently riding a tide of success. Nobody in Iowa really needs to be envious of the other right now. Even though I watched every single ISU game this season (save the one on the Long Horn Network), living in Big 10 Minnesota I probably see Hawks play more than Iowa resident Cyclones and since Gustafson they are fun to watch although not so fun when they were demolishing my home Gophers this season, woof, that 56 point massacre. . Not so much for my Iowa based Cyclones, it's an almost cult like following that's pretty limited to following and enjoying only ISU and Iowa HS players/games. Lots of them go out of the way to diss Clark as a ball hog, terrible team player and on and on. Pretty immature since she's an Iowa kid and someone we recruited and it came down to Iowa and ISU as her final two. Whether you like her high risk/high reward style or not it's dumb to think she isn't an exciting player to watch and that she generates a lot of interest in the sport. I just can't diss a young gal that has all of these little girls in the stands looking to get an autograph or a wave from her. Throw in her personality on top of the style and it's no wonder she gets more attention than Ashley Joens who comes off as way more introverted.

Sort of crazy that both schools have a top notch player and that both players are from small population Iowa. With conference titles on the line the last week of the season Iowa sold out their game for 15k and ISU was just short of 14k. Crazy attendance where, 3000 is good and 4000 is great for other Big 10 and Big 12 schools. Both schools will be in their conference title hunts. Big 12 should be ISU vs Texas unless Baylor goes portal crazy. Whether Baylor can remain Baylor with the new coach remains to be seen. With Maryland looking in turmoil, Iowa should be Big 10 fav.

As much as fans don't want to admit it, the schools over the last 10 years or so and had similar success. Both have had conference POY. Both have been in Sweet Sixteen hunts a few years in a row. Both teams sort of run similar offense with lots of threes. Neither team plays great or even very good defense. ISU is so so on D and Iowa has improved from terrible to at least mediocre. Both teams have good players with good basketball skills but neither teams is particularly physically athletic**. Both teams are very vulnerable to teams that play physical, especially those like Baylor that can play that with superior size and athletics skills. I put it that the state of Iowa fans prefer a good game of H-O-R-S-E and get pretty salty when players actually contact with one another. Both fans bases complain endlessly when their team doesn't go to the line 25 times.

 

[ISUnorth]

Thanks for the reply. Please keep us updated on transfer news, recruiting news etc. Both teams if you can stomach talking about State.

Some speculation regarding Oregon State post/forward Kennedy Brown and Iowa State. Mostly based on two factors (1) ISU, at least to the rabbling of fans, needs more of a post presence and (2) her younger sister is committed to ISU for 2023. Also a Kansas midwestern gal so not as crazy speculation as some post from Florida or something that would be SEC bound.

Some, IMHO, dumb speculation was Minnesota's Scalia to either Iowa or ISU. ISU doesn't need another shooting guard and Iowa's Bluder has not, up until this point, been a big portal recruiter. Iowa also has a couple of ranked gals in their 2022 class. ISU has been more active in the portal than Iowa although I think for them to take/get anyone this year it would have to be someone they viewed as a significant contributor since the roster is pretty full and four kids are already committed for 2023.

 

[GCKSFN4L]

I think College GameDay should be an annual event and the Iowa vs Iowa State game should get the billing. I expect both teams to be top 10 teams and they draw great crowds plus the media attention Caitlin draws. Next year could be big for both schools and they need take advantage of their position with the portal and elevate their respective programs.

 

[GoChips20]

Some speculation regarding Oregon State post/forward Kennedy Brown and Iowa State. Mostly based on two factors (1) ISU, at least to the rabbling of fans, needs more of a post presence and (2) her younger sister is committed to ISU for 2023. Also a Kansas midwestern gal so not as crazy speculation as some post from Florida or something that would be SEC bound.

Some, IMHO, dumb speculation was Minnesota's Scalia to either Iowa or ISU. ISU doesn't need another shooting guard and Iowa's Bluder has not, up until this point, been a big portal recruiter. Iowa also has a couple of ranked gals in their 2022 class. ISU has been more active in the portal than Iowa although I think for them to take/get anyone this year it would have to be someone they viewed as a significant contributor since the roster is pretty full and four kids are already committed for 2023.

Both these teams are stocked full of guards. ISU could use some interior help. Iowa less so with Czinano, but a defensive post could augment their overall D significantly. For as awesome as Czinano is offensively, she’s lower-tier on the other end of the floor.

I do think Brown would fit the ISU system well as a tall post who shoots from the perimeter.

 

[cancontent]

Both these teams are stocked full of guards. ISU could use some interior help. Iowa less so with Czinano, but a defensive post could augment their overall D significantly. For as awesome as Czinano is offensively, she’s lower-tier on the other end of the floor.

I do think Brown would fit the ISU system well as a tall post who shoots from the perimeter.

Iowa lost some of their interior depth to injury if memory serves correct. One player was lost due to an ACL (Goodman?) before the season started which left them with a freshman to back up Czinano. Hopefully Goodman will be fully recovered by the start of next season. She played some significant minutes during her freshman season and showed potential. I think they have another P/F player coming in with their 2022 class as well.

ISU definitely need to figure out what they're doing at the P/F position. Kane and Jordao are serviceable, but they're not that vaunted "1-2" punch Coach Fennelly likes to talk about if you ask me. I'm curious to see what happens with Zingaro as I've seen her play here in Canada. I think she could do well with more time but it's still unknown. Will be curious to see if they hit the transfer portal again this year.

 

[DefenseBB]

Too bad they couldn't meet up in Greensboro

Noted, but couldn't we use the transitive formula?
Iowa lost to Creighton by x points at home
Iowa State lost to Creighton by y points in Greensboro
Therefore Iowa would have beaten Iowa State (conversely-Iowa State would have beaten Iowa) by xx

You're a Duke guy, what's the answer?

 

[bballnut90]

So, temping me to post and not just lurk?

Game this next season, in the words of late ISU MBB coach Johnny Orr, should be a "humdinger". I've sort of mellowed out of hard core rivalry for the WBB games. Sure, I want ISU to win it but I don't have the animosity that some rivals have....just doesn't carry over from the other sports. No player on either side has publicly dissed the other school etc and both teams are currently riding a tide of success. Nobody in Iowa really needs to be envious of the other right now. Even though I watched every single ISU game this season (save the one on the Long Horn Network), living in Big 10 Minnesota I probably see Hawks play more than Iowa resident Cyclones and since Gustafson they are fun to watch although not so fun when they were demolishing my home Gophers this season, woof, that 56 point massacre. . Not so much for my Iowa based Cyclones, it's an almost cult like following that's pretty limited to following and enjoying only ISU and Iowa HS players/games. Lots of them go out of the way to diss Clark as a ball hog, terrible team player and on and on. Pretty immature since she's an Iowa kid and someone we recruited and it came down to Iowa and ISU as her final two. Whether you like her high risk/high reward style or not it's dumb to think she isn't an exciting player to watch and that she generates a lot of interest in the sport. I just can't diss a young gal that has all of these little girls in the stands looking to get an autograph or a wave from her. Throw in her personality on top of the style and it's no wonder she gets more attention than Ashley Joens who comes off as way more introverted.

Sort of crazy that both schools have a top notch player and that both players are from small population Iowa. With conference titles on the line the last week of the season Iowa sold out their game for 15k and ISU was just short of 14k. Crazy attendance where, 3000 is good and 4000 is great for other Big 10 and Big 12 schools. Both schools will be in their conference title hunts. Big 12 should be ISU vs Texas unless Baylor goes portal crazy. Whether Baylor can remain Baylor with the new coach remains to be seen. With Maryland looking in turmoil, Iowa should be Big 10 fav.

As much as fans don't want to admit it, the schools over the last 10 years or so and had similar success. Both have had conference POY. Both have been in Sweet Sixteen hunts a few years in a row. Both teams sort of run similar offense with lots of threes. Neither team plays great or even very good defense. ISU is so so on D and Iowa has improved from terrible to at least mediocre. Both teams have good players with good basketball skills but neither teams is particularly physically athletic**. Both teams are very vulnerable to teams that play physical, especially those like Baylor that can play that with superior size and athletics skills. I put it that the state of Iowa fans prefer a good game of H-O-R-S-E and get pretty salty when players actually contact with one another. Both fans bases complain endlessly when their team doesn't go to the line 25 times.

Great synopsis. Hope to see you post around here more frequently.

 

[Matthew1589]

Iowa lost some of their interior depth to injury if memory serves correct. One player was lost due to an ACL (Goodman?) before the season started which left them with a freshman to back up Czinano. Hopefully Goodman will be fully recovered by the start of next season. She played some significant minutes during her freshman season and showed potential. I think they have another P/F player coming in with their 2022 class as well.

ISU definitely need to figure out what they're doing at the P/F position. Kane and Jordao are serviceable, but they're not that vaunted "1-2" punch Coach Fennelly likes to talk about if you ask me. I'm curious to see what happens with Zingaro as I've seen her play here in Canada. I think she could do well with more time but it's still unknown. Will be curious to see if they hit the transfer portal again this year.

In the frontcourt Iowa returns Czinano and Warnock in the starting lineup. 6'3 Sharon Goodman will return from her ACL and is a physical post who runs the floor well, coach Bluder is really high on her. 6'4 Addie O'Grady is back and played well down the stretch showing good shot blocking ability and has a midrange game too. 6'3 AJ Ediger also returns but didn't see much action this year, she is the best perimeter shooter of all the posts.

They have 6'2 Hannah Stuelke coming in next season, she could be the x-factor bringing athleticism, a high motor, good range, and rebounding to the 4. 6'1 Jada Gyamfi is incoming too and is talented but might be a good redshirt candidate.

 

[Bjbod]

ISUnorth has provided great analysis. It is impressive that Iowa, with a population of 3 million, has been able to produce two Top Ten teams as well as two other teams who perennially threaten to make the Big Dance out of the Missouri Valley: Drake and Northern Iowa.

While Iowa and Iowa State are bitter rivals, they are alike in many ways. Both have offenses that are beautiful to watch: ISU usually has 4 girls on the floor that can drain 3's while Iowa's Czinano can be a machine inside balancing the highlight reel talents of Caitlyn Clark from literally anywhere on the court....until they run into a real in-your-face kind of defense. Both teams, Iowa especially, do not like to be pressed.

Both Iowa and Iowa State can boast cultures where you'd love to send your daughters to play. Because of the immense respect for all who go there, they are very careful about who they add to the roster out of the portal. While this is admirable, it probably will limit their ability to get beyond the Elite 8. Both teams potentially could reach the Final Four, but it would take either an other-worldly performance from the 3 point line or an extremely lucky bracket draw whereby they avoid physical/athletic teams. I'd give Iowa a slight edge in potentially pulling this off just because Clark always has the capability for throwing in 43 and Czinano having a little bit of an inside threat offensively.

I love Ashley Joens, but last year was not as good as the previous for her. Personally I think she pressed a bit by trying to score too much inside. Sorry this is tedious, but 20-21 stats: 24.2 ppg, 9.5 rbs, 46.3 fg %, 33.6 3pt %. 21-22: 20.3 ppg, 9.5 rbs, 40.9 fg %, 37.6 3pt %, 9.5 rbs. Takeaway for me: 4 points less per game but 5% lower fg %. Check out these fg stats: 4-16 vs Omaha, 5-16 vs S Dak St, 7-22 vs UMass, 9-28 vs Iowa, 4-16 vs UNI, 5-25 vs Oklahoma, 4-13 vs Okie St, 4-14 and 4-19 vs Baylor, 2-10 and 4-16 vs W Virginia, 3-11 vs Creighton. That's 12 games with very poor shooting for an All-American. I think teams are figuring her out down low, but she puts her head down and plows ahead anyway.

Monica Czinano can be a great scorer inside, but I think great defensive posts can really neutralize her. Her defensive and rebounding skills are average at best. Clark is Clark and the surrounding cast is decent, but they need to play with more mental toughness. They were impressive in an underdog role vs UConn in last years' Sweet Sixteen battle, but looked scared in their upset loss to Creighton this year in front of a packed house. They say experience is learning from your mistakes...both teams hopefully learned their lessons.

Both teams could take a step up with the right addition through the portal. Unfortunately I'd be surprised if either does.

 

[ISUnorth]

What do you peeps that follow either Cyclones or Hawks think about 2023 Iowan Audi Crook? Seems both schools have offered her. Being a Minnesota guy I haven't seen her play at all but am a little skeptical of the hype over a small town class player that rarely sees any opposition size. I've seen a few peeps rave about her and a couple from that HS area that are bewildered by the state of Iowa hype for her. Are they offering because they really think she's a quality Div 1 player or are they offering because it's a long shot project they fear missing on? If she is a worthy project would Iowa, with some history of developing unranked posts, be a good spot for her?

 

[cancontent]

What do you peeps that follow either Cyclones or Hawks think about 2023 Iowan Audi Crook? Seems both schools have offered her. Being a Minnesota guy I haven't seen her play at all but am a little skeptical of the hype over a small town class player that rarely sees any opposition size. I've seen a few peeps rave about her and a couple from that HS area that are bewildered by the state of Iowa hype for her. Are they offering because they really think she's a quality Div 1 player or are they offering because it's a long shot project they fear missing on? If she is a worthy project would Iowa, with some history of developing unranked posts, be a good spot for her?

Audi Crook seems to be an intriguing prospect. I believe she's got offers from several BIG10 schools. Raoul's website has a page with some details.

I've only seen clips on YouTube. She seems to move well, maybe better than people assume. Iowa could be a good fit for sure based on their track record.

 

[cockhrnleghrn]

ISUnorth has provided great analysis. It is impressive that Iowa, with a population of 3 million, has been able to produce two Top Ten teams as well as two other teams who perenially threaten to make the Big Dance out of the Missouri Valley: Drake and Northern Iowa.

While Iowa and Iowa State are bitter rivals, they are alike in many ways. Both have offenses that are beautiful to watch: ISU usually has 4 girls on the floor that can drain 3's while Iowa's Czinano can be a machine inside balancing the highlight reel talents of Caitlyn Clark from literally anywhere on the court....until they run into a real in-your-face kind of defense. Both teams, Iowa especially, do not like to be pressed.

Both Iowa and Iowa State can boast cultures where you'd love to send your daughters to play. Because of the immense respect for all who go there, they are very careful about who they add to the roster out of the portal. While this is admirable, it probably will limit their ability to get beyond the Elite 8. Both teams potentially could reach the Final Four, but it would take either an other-worldly performance from the 3 point line or an extremely lucky bracket draw whereby they avoid physical/athletic teams. I'd give Iowa a slight edge in potentially pulling this off just because Clark always has the capability for throwing in 43 and Czinano having a little bit of an inside threat offensively.

I love Ashley Joens, but last year was not as good as the previous for her. Personally I think she pressed a bit by trying to score too much inside. Sorry this is tedious, but 20-21 stats: 24.2 ppg, 9.5 rbs, 46.3 fg %, 33.6 3pt %. 21-22: 20.3 ppg, 9.5 rbs, 40.9 fg %, 37.6 3pt %, 9.5 rbs. Takeaway for me: 4 points less per game but 5% lower fg %. Check out these fg stats: 4-16 vs Omaha, 5-16 vs S Dak St, 7-22 vs UMass, 9-28 vs Iowa, 4-16 vs UNI, 5-25 vs Oklahoma, 4-13 vs Okie St, 4-14 and 4-19 vs Baylor, 2-10 and 4-16 vs W Virginia, 3-11 vs Creighton. That's 12 games with very poor shooting for an All-American. I think teams are figuring her out down low, but she puts her head down and plows ahead anyway.

Monica Czinano can be a great scorer inside, but I think great defensive posts can really neutralize her. Her defensive and rebounding skills are average at best. Clark is Clark and the surrounding cast is decent, but they need to play with more mental toughness. They were impressive in an underdog role vs UConn in last years' Sweet Sixteen battle, but looked scared in their upset loss to Creighton this year in front of a packed house. They say experience is learning from your mistakes...both teams hopefully learned their lessons.

Both teams could take a step up with the right addition through the portal. Unfortunately I'd be surprised if either does.

I think you're right; teams without much of an inside presence are always going to have a ceiling. Likewise, teams with a great inside presence and nothing outside will struggle to score.

 

[Matthew1589]

What do you peeps that follow either Cyclones or Hawks think about 2023 Iowan Audi Crook? Seems both schools have offered her. Being a Minnesota guy I haven't seen her play at all but am a little skeptical of the hype over a small town class player that rarely sees any opposition size. I've seen a few peeps rave about her and a couple from that HS area that are bewildered by the state of Iowa hype for her. Are they offering because they really think she's a quality Div 1 player or are they offering because it's a long shot project they fear missing on? If she is a worthy project would Iowa, with some history of developing unranked posts, be a good spot for her?

I know a few of her extended family members, she wants a future in basketball. Her Bishop Garrigan team has played a few larger schools early in the season the last few years and she's more than held her own, she has dominated when on the floor. For a big kid she has good moves around the basket and is expanding her range too. She has the skills so she isn't a project at all. The physicality of D1 won't bother her but the pace of the game will be something she has to adjust to. She isn't a 30 mpg player but more like 15-20 mpg until she makes the commitment to improving her fitness. I think her just getting on a college campus and getting in a basketball routine will benefit her considerably.

Last I looked she was ranked by ESPN #58 in her class. Jan Jensen at Iowa certainly would help her develop her skill set and Audi is definitely worthy of the Iowa offer she holds.

 

[ThatCG1801]

These are two teams that could rise to the top of their conferences with help from the Portal. Clearly potential two seeds and one could possibly gain a one seed. Possibly [ with portal help

Regardless of transfers, I'm looking forward to this matchup in 2023 and really like the fan support of that state for wbb. Joen's vs Clark is the stuff of State legends that can last for years.

Unfortunately, we don't have many fans of the two schools on this board though I understand Iowa has a pretty big social media presence.

Kind of in line with the in-state rivalry aspect of your post, but I sometimes totally forget that "other" school we share the state of South Carolina with even HAS a WBB team. LOL.

 

[visitingcock]

Kind of in line with the in-state rivalry aspect of your post, but I sometimes totally forget that "other" school we share the state of South Carolina with even HAS a WBB team. LOL.

Start Olivia for one game of her senior season!

 

[ThatCG1801]

Start Olivia for one game of her senior season!

Would LOVE to see this happen!

 

[cockhrnleghrn]

Kind of in line with the in-state rivalry aspect of your post, but I sometimes totally forget that "other" school we share the state of South Carolina with even HAS a WBB team. LOL.

They've been irrelevant for so long, I don't think they do.

 

[Iowa57]

One thing to watch next year for Iowa is how teams defend Clark. Indiana and Creighton both limited her offense somewhat toward the end of the year by hitting her constantly and daring the officials to call fouls. If teams play her more physically next year, will she be able to make adjustments?

As an Iowa fan, I'd like to see her work on floaters or short pullup jumpers. She's great at penetrating, and those shots would allow her to get close to the basket, but not have to shoot around contact that isn't called.

 

[HuskyNan]

One thing to watch next year for Iowa is how teams defend Clark. Indiana and Creighton both limited her offense somewhat toward the end of the year by hitting her constantly and daring the officials to call fouls. If teams play her more physically next year, will she be able to make adjustments?

As an Iowa fan, I'd like to see her work on floaters or short pullup jumpers. She's great at penetrating, and those shots would allow her to get close to the basket, but not have to shoot around contact that isn't called.

Big 10 and Big East are two of the more physical leagues but bumping, holding, and pushing a star player is pretty routine. Diana Taurasi used to be covered with black and blues and Maya Moore had to wear rib protectors when she played. Watch what defenses to do Paige Bueckers, too. Caitlin needs to adjust to the physical play.

 

[cancontent]

One thing to watch next year for Iowa is how teams defend Clark. Indiana and Creighton both limited her offense somewhat toward the end of the year by hitting her constantly and daring the officials to call fouls. If teams play her more physically next year, will she be able to make adjustments?

As an Iowa fan, I'd like to see her work on floaters or short pullup jumpers. She's great at penetrating, and those shots would allow her to get close to the basket, but not have to shoot around contact that isn't called.

Big 10 and Big East are two of the more physical leagues but bumping, holding, and pushing a star player is pretty routine. Diana Taurasi used to be covered with black and blues and Maya Moore had to wear rib protectors when she played. Watch what defenses to do Paige Bueckers, too. Caitlin needs to adjust to the physical play.

I've viewed this differently at different points of the past season. In the beginning of the season, I thought that Clark was drawing some fouls through her attacking style, sometimes selling the contact. Towards the end of the season, I thought she was getting frustrated when they weren't made as frequently.

Bluder seemed to imply the same during her final press conference during the tournament as she said how fouls were called changed once the tournament started. I agree she needs to get used to the physical play more but I'm also curious as to what others think of my interpretation.

 

[Iowa57]

I've viewed this differently at different points of the past season. In the beginning of the season, I thought that Clark was drawing some fouls through her attacking style, sometimes selling the contact. Towards the end of the season, I thought she was getting frustrated when they weren't made as frequently.

Bluder seemed to imply the same during her final press conference during the tournament as she said how fouls were called changed once the tournament started. I agree she needs to get used to the physical play more but I'm also curious as to what others think of my interpretation.

For a large chunk of the season Clark was drawing a lot of fouls, and some were certainly soft. Towards the end of the season, teams were challenging her with contact at the basket more and the officials called the same, or even fewer, fouls.

Coach Bluder's press conference was a little different. Her main issue was that Iowa averaged something like 34 fouls called in its games during the regular season, but only 22 were called in the Creighton game. The Creighton game was also one of Iowa's most physical of the season, so in theory you would expect more fouls than average, not significantly fewer.