OT: International Softball Pitching

[Pinhead]

While not an avid softball fan, I watch an occasional collegiate TV game. While watching the Japan vs Australia Oly game this evening, I was surprised to learn that the pitcher is allowed to have both feet off the ground per release in international ball, vs one foot staying on the rubber in collegiate. Having seen illegal pitches called, sometimes even repetitively to the point of psyching the pitcher in collegiate, this strikes me as a major pitching advantage as it enables all that bodily momentum toward the plate. Are collegiate pitchers able to easily adopt? It strikes me as a much more than a subtle difference on both ends of a pitch. Is it a safety rule whose time has passed? Perhaps keep it in place for the young-uns', and allow the international standard for U15s and up, or similar?

 

[oldude]

In all honesty, when I watch the furious deliveries of top women’s softball pitchers like Monica Abbot and Cat Osterman, I have no idea how they could possibly keep one foot on the rubber.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

While not an avid softball fan, I watch an occasional collegiate TV game. While watching the Japan vs Australia Oly game this evening, I was surprised to learn that the pitcher is allowed to have both feet off the ground per release in international ball, vs one foot staying on the rubber in collegiate. Having seen illegal pitches called, sometimes even repetitively to the point of psyching the pitcher in collegiate, this strikes me as a major pitching advantage as it enables all that bodily momentum toward the plate. Are collegiate pitchers able to easily adopt? It strikes me as a much more than a subtle difference on both ends of a pitch. Is it a safety rule whose time has passed? Perhaps keep it in place for the young-uns', and allow the international standard for U15s and up, or similar?

Not on the rubber. On the rubber at the start of the pitch. On the ground during the delivery. The idea being that if you "hop" you are essentially getting additional power. Some years ago, I heard it claimed that actually hopping is not the advantage that is claimed for it. I personally have no clue.

 

[Dokey]

Crow hopping is called when the pitchers foot leaves the rubber and replants at release. The pitcher’s foot can leave the rubber but toe must drag. That push and drag gives more power than the illegal crow hop. As a pitching coach, I have managed to correct it during a game but it still leaves pitcher rattled. For a few years, the pitcher could keep one foot a foot or more behind rubber but that is no longer allowed.

 

[Cuango]

Crow hopping is called when the pitchers foot leaves the rubber and replants at release. The pitcher’s foot can leave the rubber but toe must drag. That push and drag gives ore power than the illegal crow hop. As a pitching oath, I ave managed to correct it during a game but it still leaves pitcher rattled. For a few years, the pitcher could keep one foot a foot or more behind rubber but that is no longer allowed.

While not an avid softball fan, I watch an occasional collegiate TV game. While watching the Japan vs Australia Oly game this evening, I was surprised to learn that the pitcher is allowed to have both feet off the ground per release in international ball, vs one foot staying on the rubber in collegiate. Having seen illegal pitches called, sometimes even repetitively to the point of psyching the pitcher in collegiate, this strikes me as a major pitching advantage as it enables all that bodily momentum toward the plate. Are collegiate pitchers able to easily adopt? It strikes me as a much more than a subtle difference on both ends of a pitch. Is it a safety rule whose time has passed? Perhaps keep it in place for the young-uns', and allow the international standard for U15s and up, or similar?

I remember when Kenzie Fowler of Arizona was called for this repeatedly in the Women’s Softball World Series! It completely unnerved her and imo may have been the primary reason we lost that year. Clearly, it was something that should have been addressed earlier but as I recall, it was something they (CSWS) decided to emphasize that had not been emphasized during the regular season. Kenzie was a great talent who had a series of tough breaks and whose career failed to match up with her talent. Fortunately, she (I believe) is now healthy and happy, which is far more important than a College Softball title.

 

[Dabber]

While not an avid softball fan, I watch an occasional collegiate TV game. While watching the Japan vs Australia Oly game this evening, I was surprised to learn that the pitcher is allowed to have both feet off the ground per release in international ball, vs one foot staying on the rubber in collegiate. Having seen illegal pitches called, sometimes even repetitively to the point of psyching the pitcher in collegiate, this strikes me as a major pitching advantage as it enables all that bodily momentum toward the plate. Are collegiate pitchers able to easily adopt? It strikes me as a much more than a subtle difference on both ends of a pitch. Is it a safety rule whose time has passed? Perhaps keep it in place for the young-uns', and allow the international standard for U15s and up, or similar?

It is really surprising to me why absolutely no one is upset with, using the NCAA womens basketball as a prototype to short change women's sports, the Olympic organizers saw fit to have the softball games played on an unbelievably poorly altered baseball diamond. It looks like a field that had been altered for little leaguers to play on. Very very demeaning for women's sports. The Olympic organizers should be called on this demeaning gesture, just as the NCAA was back in March

 

[Bama fan]

In all honesty, when I watch the furious deliveries of top women’s softball pitchers like Monica Abbot and Cat Osterman, I have no idea how they could possibly keep one foot on the rubber.

Having avidly watched softball for years, I am convinced Cat Osterman can walk on water , or levitate, or do anything she darn well pleases. She has been a joy to behold since her early days.

 

[oldude]

Having avidly watched softball for years, I am convinced Cat Osterman can walk on water , or levitate, or do anything she darn well pleases. She has been a joy to behold since her early days.

Watching a nail biter between the US & Canada right now. US up 1-0 through 6 innings. Abbott is dealing.

 

[Bama fan]

Watching a nail biter between the US & Canada right now. US up 1-0 through 6 innings. Abbott is dealing.

Abbott has a very strange posture just before her release, but she can bring the heat. Interesting to watch Canada change pitchers will nilly. USA not hitting with gusto so far through two games. Our Haley McKinney continues to shine though.

 

[eebmg]

Canada had a chance and their only hit with a player in scoring position almost gave them the tying run but was gunned down at the plate. Done deal. Canada did not look happy after the loss, Nothing worse for Canadians than to lose to the USA.

 

[Pinhead]

Abbott has a very strange posture just before her release, but she can bring the heat. Interesting to watch Canada change pitchers will nilly. USA not hitting with gusto so far through two games. Our Haley McKinney continues to shine though.

Monica Abbott! Holy smokes, how do you hit against her?

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

It is really surprising to me why absolutely no one is upset with, using the NCAA womens basketball as a prototype to short change women's sports, the Olympic organizers saw fit to have the softball games played on an unbelievably poorly altered baseball diamond. It looks like a field that had been altered for little leaguers to play on. Very very demeaning for women's sports. The Olympic organizers should be called on this demeaning gesture, just as the NCAA was back in March

As I noted somewhere in another post - this was a deal brokered by a joint baseball / softball application to return to the Olympics after last being included in 2008. Part of the application was to use the same facilities for both sports as this was thought to make the application more attractive.

I also saw some clips of Abbott playing for her Japanese team (she has been playing there for like 9 years) and some of the clips also showed this type of field.

That said, as I said in my other post, given that softball is popular and Michelle Smith has confirmed that they have some nice softball facilities, I don't quite get it.

 

[Frodo]

This is a bit off topic, but watching some of the U.S vs Canada game I was stunned to see that the games were being played on a converted baseball field rather than a standard softball diamond. Seems pretty gauche to me.

 

[Dabber]

This is a bit off topic, but watching some of the U.S vs Canada game I was stunned to see that the games were being played on a converted baseball field rather than a standard softball diamond. Seems pretty gauche to me.

It was not just a terrific optic but also an insult to all of the women's softball teams. With the incredulous amount of money that went into producing to the Olympics how could anyone be happy with this sharing of a baseball diamond?

 

[oldude]

It was not just a terrific optic but also an insult to all of the women's softball teams. With the incredulous amount of money that went into producing to the Olympics how could anyone be happy with this sharing of a baseball diamond?

While the playing field looks a little strange, my biggest problem with the configuration is that the dugouts are nowhere near the softball field. So all the players are standing along the fences on the 1st & 3rd base lines.

 

[Dabber]

While the playing field looks a little strange, my biggest problem with the configuration is that the dugouts are nowhere near the softball field. So all the players are standing along the fences on the 1st & 3rd base lines.

Right, the entire softball field is contorted/out of sync.

 

[EdSaid]

Athens Greece's softball stadium from the 2004 Olympics (photo is from 2018). Stadium was never used again. Softball was dropped after 2008 Olympics, Due mainly to stadium construction costs. Softball was re-added this time around. Title 9 is a U.S. thing only. I suppose its better that softball is back for the women that get to play, even with the insulting playing field.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Gabby Plain pitches for U. of Washington and also participates in international competitions for her native Australia. Every time she finishes playing for Australia and comes back to UW, she gets called for a bunch of illegal pitches while she readjusts to the difference in rules.

 

[EricLA]

Fortunately the US has 2 really good pitchers because the players seem to have left their batting skills back home. Japan and Canada lit up Australia scoring runs in bunches. USA was able to manage only 3 or 4 hits the entire game till they scored 2 runs in the bottom of the 8th to come from behind. No idea how to address that, but it seems like they won't be able to rely on offense to win anything in these games...

 

[Happydad745]

It is really surprising to me why absolutely no one is upset with, using the NCAA womens basketball as a prototype to short change women's sports, the Olympic organizers saw fit to have the softball games played on an unbelievably poorly altered baseball diamond. It looks like a field that had been altered for little leaguers to play on. Very very demeaning for women's sports. The Olympic organizers should be called on this demeaning gesture, just as the NCAA was back in March

I thought the very same thing when I first viewed our team playing Mexico or Canada. Women's sports, like women in general, are not being treated equally in a male dominate world....this really needs to change.

 

[hoopsfan22]

Athens Greece's softball stadium from the 2004 Olympics (photo is from 2018). Stadium was never used again. Softball was dropped after 2008 Olympics, Due mainly to stadium construction costs. Softball was re-added this time around. Title 9 is a U.S. thing only. I suppose its better that softball is back for the women that get to play, even with the insulting playing field.

View attachment 68724

Wow so what happens to that stadium? Does it just stay like that forever or do they do something else with the land? With all of those chairs installed couldn't they turn it into a little space for small concerts or other public performances?

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

I thought the very same thing when I first viewed our team playing Mexico or Canada. Women's sports, like women in general, are not being treated equally in a male dominate world....this really needs to change.

I keep posting - for whatever reason in order to get baseball and softball into this Olympics (they will be gone again in the next, possibly back when it returns to the US) the body / bodies that govern the sports tried to make the proposal more appealing by offering to play in the same stadiums. Pictures of a US player that plays in Japan showed that this is not something "just for the Olympics" (as it was a dual field) although there are also nice softball stadiums in Japan.

I have no idea why they did this - but to simply and exclusively argue that it is unequal treatment of women's sports is probably way to simplistic in this case. The issue, ultimately, is that softball - and baseball - lacks popularity in Europe and much of the rest of the globe for that matter so there is very little demand to have them in the Olympics. Why they have been out since 2008. And Softball and Baseball are inexorably intertwined in the view of the rest of the world.

 

[MainefanSC]

I understand everyone's disappointment with the venue and condition of the playing field. It is probably degrading to the players and coaches. However, if any one of them was asked, I suspect their answer would be that it is better to have disrespect and play, than to not play at all.
I know I have enjoyed watching the games. The situation they play under is better than not being able to see them at all. JMHO

 

[EdSaid]

Wow so what happens to that stadium? Does it just stay like that forever or do they do something else with the land? With all of those chairs installed couldn't they turn it into a little space for small concerts or other public performances?

I found some more info on the 2004 Greece Olympics. There are just 10 baseball teams in Greece. The facility of fields have never been used again.
"
Hellinikon Olympic Complex was one of four sports complexes built in the Athens area for the 2004 Games. According to the Wall Street Journal, the five-venue complex, which also hosted softball and field hockey, cost about $212 million. In total, roughly $7 billion was spent on Olympic-related expenses by the Greek government, according to the Ministry of Finance.

“It was really painful for me personally and everybody,” Mazarakis added, ”especially when you consider the fact that Major League Baseball was very interested in taking over the field and maintaining them and bringing to Greece MLB baseball teams to play tournaments [during] spring training.”

Greece Olympic baseball stadium as of 2016

The baseball field built for the 2004 Athens Olympics is now being put to more urgent uses – as a home for tents housing some of the thousands of refugees seeking safety in Greece.

 

[eebmg]

US losing to Japan 2-0 entering bottom of 5th. Since we know US cant hit, we are in deep doo-doo