Here’s a bombshell

[bendm]

Why can't they make a decision before the contract is up? They may not be able to leave before then, but I have to imagine they can make a decision to leave before then.

fair enough, they will wait to make a decision until they figure out exactly how much their next deal with NBC and/or streaming partners would be worth when their current deal expires in '25. so sometime in the next 2.5 years.

 

[upstater]

What are the penalties for Texas, OK, USC & UCLA?

The reason they are waiting until the contract for their conferences to expire before making a move is to avoid penalties.

UT & OK announced last year which is 4 years in advance of the B12 contract expiration & USC/UCLA are going to play a full 2 seasons in the PAC before they bale

But the penalties start once the announcement is made.

 

[bobbyinaz]

But the penalties start once the announcement is made.

UT & OK announced a full 4 years before they are actually leaving. What are their penalties?

The reason they are staying is to avoid penalties

 

[upstater]

UT & OK announced a full 4 years before they are actually leaving. What are their penalties?

The reason they are staying is to avoid penalties

We don't know when they'll leave but there are penalties upon announcement. I don't know what they are. It's just normally done. And in cases without a GOR, though there are penalties, the clock starts ticking when the initial announcement is made, so it actually benefits you to announce as early as possible even though you are penalized for the announcement.

 

[bobbyinaz]

We don't know when they'll leave but there are penalties upon announcement. I don't know what they are. It's just normally done. And in cases without a GOR, though there are penalties, the clock starts ticking when the initial announcement is made, so it actually benefits you to announce as early as possible even though you are penalized for the announcement.

So you are basically talking out of your *ss by saying it's normally done??

This article very clearly says they announced that they are staying until 2025 and they will not renew their GOR w the B12 at that time

Texas, Oklahoma formally request SEC membership beginning in 2025 after announcing Big 12 departure

Show me one article, tweet, post from anywhere that says that even though they are fulfilling their terms of the contract they are being penalized.

 

[upstater]

So you are basically talking out of your *ss by saying it's normally done??

This article very clearly says they announced that they are staying until 2025 and they will not renew their GOR w the B12 at that time

Texas, Oklahoma formally request SEC membership beginning in 2025 after announcing Big 12 departure

Show me one article, tweet, post from anywhere that says that even though they are fulfilling their terms of the contract they are being penalized.

Why are you so angry?

I was obviously peaking in general terms.

You're giving one example. OK and Texas.

Did you stop to think I wasn't talking about them?

I was answering a post in general that had nothing to do with OK and Texas.

It was about the ACC and Pac-10.

Here's a sample of what happens:

*3.2.4 Reduction of Distributions to Withdrawing Member. The Commissioner may, at any time (including prior to the effective date of any withdrawal or deemed withdrawal), reduce any distributions otherwise payable to a member that has provided notice of withdrawal or who has been deemed to have withdrawn, including but not limited to distributions otherwise provided for in Bylaw 31, and apply such distributions to the withdrawal fee payable by the member to the Conference. [Adopted: 1/14/21]

As soon as you announce, you're penalized because the conference then has the right to reduce your payouts.

You act like this is a mysterious thing whereas it's been well-known for awhile; it has come into play at UConn as well.

Calm down

 

[Hondo 77]

It expressly turned it down when it was offered the opportunity to move up to FBS football by the Big East.

And given money as well.

 

[Jbirdp5]

And yet, even with a full Big 10 share, they somehow are managing to lose $73 million a year. That’s impressive, even for Rutgers.

Rutgers even screwed that up, they’ve taken so many loans from the big ten they don’t get a full share now until 2026.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

And given money as well.

Yes. That whole thing was a charade.

Nova couldn't feasibly increase the size of their stadium (I believe it holds less than 15k), had no access to the Link (due to Temple's agreement with that facility and "proposed" using the Union's 20k MLS stadium for games that needed greater capacity than their field could hold. On facilities alone this could never get off the ground.

At the time (shortly before a few major conferences added schools) there was a lot of unrest between the football and non-football members of the conference. Going through that charade was necessary to get the Catholics to allow adding TCU (announced but never materialized) but it may have been the final straw in the BE as a hybrid conference.

 

[LoyalFanCT]

Couldn't Nova use UPenn's stadium or even Lincoln Financial Field. Nova is close to Philadelphia.

 

[huskymedic]

Couldn't Nova use UPenn's stadium or even Lincoln Financial Field. Nova is close to Philadelphia.

Paging @Zissou

 

[auror]

Why are you so angry?

I was obviously peaking in general terms.

You're giving one example. OK and Texas.

Did you stop to think I wasn't talking about them?

I was answering a post in general that had nothing to do with OK and Texas.

It was about the ACC and Pac-10.

Here's a sample of what happens:

*3.2.4 Reduction of Distributions to Withdrawing Member. The Commissioner may, at any time (including prior to the effective date of any withdrawal or deemed withdrawal), reduce any distributions otherwise payable to a member that has provided notice of withdrawal or who has been deemed to have withdrawn, including but not limited to distributions otherwise provided for in Bylaw 31, and apply such distributions to the withdrawal fee payable by the member to the Conference. [Adopted: 1/14/21]

As soon as you announce, you're penalized because the conference then has the right to reduce your payouts.

You act like this is a mysterious thing whereas it's been well-known for awhile; it has come into play at UConn as well.

Calm down

Reduces your payouts but it goes towards any exit fees, so is not extra punishment. In a way, you're both right. Waiting until GOR ends to leave means you pay less penalties/forfeit less rights. Announcing early hinders your cash flow because some of your revenue is directed immediately towards penalties you do have (like conference exit fee separate from GOR). But you'd have paid that eventually anyways.

 

[freescooter]

Yes. That whole thing was a charade.

Nova couldn't feasibly increase the size of their stadium (I believe it holds less than 15k), had no access to the Link (due to Temple's agreement with that facility and "proposed" using the Union's 20k MLS stadium for games that needed greater capacity than their field could hold. On facilities alone this could never get off the ground.

At the time (shortly before a few major conferences added schools) there was a lot of unrest between the football and non-football members of the conference. Going through that charade was necessary to get the Catholics to allow adding TCU (announced but never materialized) but it may have been the final straw in the BE as a hybrid conference.

IfI recall correctly, the Big East football schools ultimately vote Villanova down.

 

[jayfromfla]

IfI recall correctly, the Big East football schools ultimately vote Villanova down.

Actually in order to allow Miami vatec WV and Rutgers, villanova and UConn were granted admission to be football until a set date. UConn joined while Villanova declined. Vu was not rejected.

 

[Zissou]

Paging @Zissou

lol, poking the bear.

LoyalFanCT said:
Couldn't Nova use UPenn's stadium or even Lincoln Financial Field. Nova is close to Philadelphia.

Yes, Nova has stadium options. One scenario is having most home games at the Philadelphia Union MLS stadium. It’s 18 miles (30 minutes) from campus, seated 18,500 (and was built to expand beyond that). Occasional larger games, like Penn State or ND, (and an annual game against Temple) would be at the Linc (Eagle’s and Temple’s home). This was the plan when Nova was considering the Big East FBS invite. Pitt and WVU rejected this Nova stadium plan as they were negotiating themselves out of the Big East.

 

[LoyalFanCT]

Also, UPenn's Franklin Field seats over 50,000. The Eagles played there for a dozen years. I'm sure Nova could play a half dozen games a year there for a fair deal.

 

[Zissou]

Actually in order to allow Miami vatec WV and Rutgers, villanova and UConn were granted admission to be football until a set date. UConn joined while Villanova declined. Vu was not rejected.

The Nova story with FBS invites had a few twists and turns, and the truth lies in the middle of the above discussion. Nova was formally invited to move up to FBS twice by the Big East. The first invite was when UConn was also invited. UConn moved up and Nova declined. Then Nova was invited again in 2010.

Below is an excerpt from an excellent source.

Nova and UConn were invited up in the 1990s. UConn moved up and Nova declined. At the time Nova’s stadium was an issue (12,500) and the administration was weak on sports.

By 2010 the Big East was in need of Nova to move up. Nova was invited, but instead of being ready or proactively planning for the potential opportunity, Nova didn’t know how to respond. The AD was a guy promoted up from running the ticket office and was in way over his head. The President (same one as today) was a theatre guy with no interest in sports, and he would openly talk down sports. Having Jay Wright was a very fortunate and lucky position for the basketball program. He built the program in spite of the lack of interest, and had a long leash because of the lack of interest.

Nova decided that it needed to produce a “study“ to respond to the invite. So it studied, and dithered, and discussed, and pondered. For over 6 months. While Nova dithered, the conference needed a member. TCU signed up. With a study complete and a recommendation to Nova’s leadership to accept the invite, a Board of Trustees meeting was set up to rubber stamp the move.

Unfortunately, the President and the AD completely mishandled the process. They were all patting themselves on the back and getting ready to formalize the move up, but they had not stayed close and informed with their conference peers. With TCU signed, the conference need was less. The invite was not still fresh and they didn’t even know it. The plan was to play in the nearby Philadelphia Union stadium (18,000). Pitt, WVU, and Rutgers conspired to withdraw the invite. Pitt was a leader in the politics. At the same time Pitt was screwing up the conf TV deal and also back channeling to the ACC for membership. No honor among conference presidents.

With an embarrassingly stale invite, the Nova BOT cancelled their vote. The rest is history.

Nova had won the FCS title in 2009 and was competitive with FBS programs like Temple.

While other programs in the conference conspired against Nova, the biggest fault in the failed move lies with Nova itself. The leadership was incompetent and fumbled the invite. In hindsight it wasn’t a scandal, because they didn’t care that they mismanaged it. It’s only football.

Source: Zissou

Of note is the change in ascension rules to FBS since the 2010/2011 debacle. Liberty set precedent that a move to FBS may be made independently without strict adherence to the prior rule of an FBS conference invite.

 

[Zissou]

Now, for the larger discussion, Nova to the ACC is unlikely from many directions.

Nova is more interested in the Big East. Nova is “Basketball-First” and the Big East is a great conference and a platform to compete at the highest level.

The ACC ain’t what it used to be, even today before any potential poaching. Fans of the Old ACC schools think that the New ACC is diluted and cumbersome, not playing old members as much in a scheduling compromise. Fans of schools new to the New ACC mostly see failure on the court and the field with outlier status for recruiting and rivalries: Pitt, Cuse, BC…

The ACC isn’t that attractive to Nova.

In the other direction, why would the ACC want Nova? Basketball excellence for sure, but what else? Football now drives even the ACC, but even Nova moving up would dilute the average. It could work in an overall strategy to fill a spot and strengthen hoops, support rivalries for other Northern schools like Pitt, Cuse, and BC, but it’s not really a driving force for consideration. Another discussion point is academic prestige. There was a time when that was critical for the PAC, the Big Ten, and the ACC, but the ACC gave up on that long ago with FSU and Ville so it not much of a consideration today.

It’s really likely there will be unexpected turns for those outside the P2 and resulting opportunities. The Big East might play in that with additions, but really UConn is the only risk to leave. Nova is unlikely. UConn leaving would likely benefit their football but detract from hoops. It would be another unattractive compromise, making the best of what is left.

 

[Zissou]

Also, UPenn's Franklin Field seats over 50,000. The Eagles played there for a dozen years. I'm sure Nova could play a half dozen games a year there for a fair deal.

Franklin Field is a glorious historical stadium dating back to the 1800s as home to the annual Penn Relays and with most of its architecture from the 1920s expansion.

It was home to the Eagle’s and their 1960 NFL Championship win.

As much as I love Franklin Field, the stadium amenities are poor, it’s location is difficult to access, and parking (and tailgating) is a problem. The capacity is more than needed for most games as well.

The Union’s stadium is newer with great amenities (bathrooms, concessions, etc), easy access, and ample parking. 18,500 seating is right sized for a non-P2 FBS program, especially with the Linc available for the occasional high profile visitor.

 

[Hurleyman216]

No offense to @Zissou because I have a lot of respect for the Nova program, but Jay Wright is what made that program work. UConn is Exhibit A along with many others (Indiana, UNC, UCLA etc) in how difficult it is to replace a HOF coach. I expect Nova will still stay around the top third of the BE, but the next 3-5 years are crucial. This isn’t a knock on Nova, if Gonzaga just lost Few we’d be saying the same thing. I get that in the eyes of Nova fans you guys are still the best team in the league, but whether you realize it or not there’s a 95% chance that UConn just leapfrogged you for the next 5-7 year stretch. You might want to start thinking about football as being a more important piece because your basketball program isn’t as good as it was 4 months ago.

 

[ctchamps]

No offense to @Zissou because I have a lot of respect for the Nova program, but Jay Wright is what made that program work. UConn is Exhibit A along with many others (Indiana, UNC, UCLA etc) in how difficult it is to replace a HOF coach. I expect Nova will still stay around the top third of the BE, but the next 3-5 years are crucial. This isn’t a knock on Nova, if Gonzaga just lost Few we’d be saying the same thing. I get that in the eyes of Nova fans you guys are still the best team in the league, but whether you realize it or not there’s a 95% chance that UConn just leapfrogged you for the next 5-7 year stretch. You might want to start thinking about football as being a more important piece because your basketball program isn’t as good as it was 4 months ago.

You’re going to get reamed that you specified a 95% chance and not a 96% chance.

Gonzaga might not be the best example given Mark Few was the assistant to Dan Monson who was 52-17 during his tenure at Gonzaga.

 

[Zissou]

No offense to @Zissou because I have a lot of respect for the Nova program, but Jay Wright is what made that program work. UConn is Exhibit A along with many others (Indiana, UNC, UCLA etc) in how difficult it is to replace a HOF coach. I expect Nova will still stay around the top third of the BE, but the next 3-5 years are crucial. This isn’t a knock on Nova, if Gonzaga just lost Few we’d be saying the same thing. I get that in the eyes of Nova fans you guys are still the best team in the league, but whether you realize it or not there’s a 95% chance that UConn just leapfrogged you for the next 5-7 year stretch. You might want to start thinking about football as being a more important piece because your basketball program isn’t as good as it was 4 months ago.

Jay took Nova to a new level, but Jay isn’t to Nova what Calhoun was to UConn.

Nova had been to Final Fours and had won a title before Jay. Jay was another in a long tradition of winning, and took the program to another level. I’m excited to see what Nova might accomplish with Neptune, and I like that Jay shaped the transition and is part of the ongoing program. We shall see!

UConn won a title after Calhoun, then faltered. I do like where Hurley is on the rebuild.

Ville, UK, Kansas, and UNC have won over many coaches, with bumps in the road.

While Duke was good pre-K (final four with Gminski/Spanarkel/Banks), their title success is only with K. They truly have a succession test.

Few is more defining for the Zags as well.

You’re off base on the importance of football to Nova. I’m in the minority at Nova that even recognizes the football potential.

 

[Hurleyman216]

Jay took Nova to a new level, but Jay isn’t to Nova what Calhoun was to UConn.

Nova had been to Final Fours and had won a title before Jay. Jay was another in a long tradition of winning, and took the program to another level. I’m excited to see what Nova might accomplish with Neptune, and I like that Jay shaped the transition and is part of the ongoing program. We shall see!

UConn won a title after Calhoun, then faltered. I do like where Hurley is on the rebuild.

Ville, UK, Kansas, and UNC have won over many coaches, with bumps in the road.

While Duke was good pre-K (final four with Gminski/Spanarkel/Banks), their title success is only with K. They truly have a succession test.

Few is more defining for the Zags as well.

You’re off base on the importance of football to Nova. I’m in the minority at Nova that even recognizes the football potential.

If you want to count your 1939 and 1971 final fours as being relevant when the NIT was still the main tournament at the time then so be it. Nova had 1 other good run with Rolli in 1985 which is exactly the equivalent to UConn and Kevin Ollie in 2014 (even the seeds were almost the same). Nova had a few good years with Kerry Kittles, but was otherwise irrelevant until Jay Wright took over. Even if you don’t think it’s true, your program was HUGELY successful the past 10 years and that is 100% because of Jay Wright. He absolutely was your Jim Calhoun.

My point still stands that Nova should be putting 1000% of their effort into football because the future of their basketball program depends on it.

 

[Hondo 77]

lol, poking the bear.

LoyalFanCT said:
Couldn't Nova use UPenn's stadium or even Lincoln Financial Field. Nova is close to Philadelphia.

Yes, Nova has stadium options. One scenario is having most home games at the Philadelphia Union MLS stadium. It’s 18 miles (30 minutes) from campus, seated 18,500 (and was built to expand beyond that). Occasional larger games, like Penn State or ND, (and an annual game against Temple) would be at the Linc (Eagle’s and Temple’s home). This was the plan when Nova was considering the Big East FBS invite. Pitt and WVU rejected this Nova stadium plan as they were negotiating themselves out of the Big East.

Nothing says big time like an 18k seat soccer stadium.

 

[Zissou]

Nothing says big time like an 18k seat soccer stadium.

It’s definitely not big time. That’s the point. Don’t build a new stadium with unrealistic expectations. Use a MLS venue that is close and right sized for a program that is not big time.

UConn didn’t reach 19,000 for a single game last year and averaged 14,700 per game.