Early January All-American Considerations | The Boneyard

Early January All-American Considerations

DefenseBB

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The AP has 5 team member 1st team; WBCA has a 10-member 1st team consideration

My list thus far is with the first 5 being AP:
  • Boston-SC
  • Clark-Iowa
  • Brink-Stanford
  • Reese-LSU
  • Miles-ND

  • Edwards-UConn
  • Holmes-Indiana
  • Siegrist-Villanova
  • Mikesell-OSU
  • Osborne-UCLA
Now, due to injuries, Jacy Sheldon and Azzi Fudd are not on the list. Once both return, Azzi could replace Miles on the 1st 5 (AP team) if she returns to form and she has a good game against both Tennessee and SC. Notable absentees are Haley Jones whose stats are down this year 49% FG and 15% 3 point shooting and on a team lacking Guards, she is only averaging 3.73 assists. My guess is the scribes will cite intangibles like leadership and poise (hogwash I say!). The Big 12 is not represented with their best player probably being Ashley Joens G/F.

In reviewing the stats and lists, I was surprised by the stats that Taylor Mikesell is putting up and if tOSU keeps winning, she has to get serious consideration. Osborne is on the fringe but gets the nod at the moment.

Honorable mention goes to Latson-FSU, Kitley-VaTech, Morrow-DePaul, Miller-Maryland.

What say you my fellow WCBB acolytes?
 
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After watching SCar/Georgia game and looking at Boston's stats coming into the game, I don't think she is playing like first team AA right now. I'd move Edwards up to first team
Yea Boston played quite a bit and did relatively nothing the whole game. I’m surprised she’s still mentioned at NPOY leader when her game seems to have taken a step back this season.
 
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Honorable mention goes to Latson-FSU, Kitley-VaTech, Morrow-DePaul, Miller-Maryland.
I’ll leave fussing about the 1st team list to others. But I’d drop Latson, Kitley and Morrow from the honorable mention list. None of them are having great seasons against top competition — well, maybe Latson, but I’m not totally convinced even in her case. I’m more impressed by Grace VanSlooten. I’d also include Mikulasikova and Holmes instead, because they’re leading their teams to the top of the rankings. I’d also propose Celeste Taylor, who’s playing really well for Duke and is long overdue for some recognition.

Also, if she returns to her early season form — she’s faded a little in the last couple games — I’d include Nika Muhl somewhere. If she ends the season leading D1 in assists and is widely perceived as the engineer of UConn’s latest final four run, she will be deserving of some recognition.
 

Dillon77

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The AP has 5 team member 1st team; WBCA has a 10-member 1st team consideration

My list thus far is with the first 5 being AP:
  • Boston-SC
  • Clark-Iowa
  • Brink-Stanford
  • Reese-LSU
  • Miles-ND

  • Edwards-UConn
  • Holmes-Indiana
  • Siegrist-Villanova
  • Mikesell-OSU
  • Osborne-UCLA
Now, due to injuries, Jacy Sheldon and Azzi Fudd are not on the list. Once both return, Azzi could replace Miles on the 1st 5 (AP team) if she returns to form and she has a good game against both Tennessee and SC. Notable absentees are Haley Jones whose stats are down this year 49% FG and 15% 3 point shooting and on a team lacking Guards, she is only averaging 3.73 assists. My guess is the scribes will cite intangibles like leadership and poise (hogwash I say!). The Big 12 is not represented with their best player probably being Ashley Joens G/F.

In reviewing the stats and lists, I was surprised by the stats that Taylor Mikesell is putting up and if tOSU keeps winning, she has to get serious consideration. Osborne is on the fringe but gets the nod at the moment.

Honorable mention goes to Latson-FSU, Kitley-VaTech, Morrow-DePaul, Miller-Maryland.

What say you my fellow WCBB acolytes?
Thanks for researching and compiling this list. I was planning on replying yesterday but got pulled into watching Tulane's comeback (USC's collapse?) and the Penn State - Utah (American) football games.

I think this is a pretty accurate set of names for where we are right now in the season. I prefer to wait a bit to see how players do in-conference (for a lot of players, they run into tougher competition). So, I'll offer a few thoughts to your list and add a few players that I'm watching in their respective in-conference play.

  • Boston and Haley Jones are players that have -- in the past -- risen to the challenges. Let's see if that happens this year because right now, I fear the ball in Hannah Jump's hands a lot more than Jones.
  • Mikesell is having one of those "oh wow" years. Not only is she covering for Sheldon, but for Madison Greene, who is lost for the year with the exact same injury she had last year.
  • Miles controls the game for ND. The difference between she and, say, Clark, is that Clark has to/chooses to shoot a lot more; probably because she has to for Iowa to succeed. ND has better options than Clark (beyond Monka C). Clark is as close to a one-person game for a Top 20 offense as we see.
  • If Edwards continues to play at the level she's shown, I could see an argument for her being first team. However, voters have a hard time getting established names out of their heads.
  • Kitley is pre-eminent center, but I haven't seen her push Va. Tech to the next level. So far, the engine is Georgia Amoore, the point guard.
  • Will Latson hold up in the ACC regular season? It's a long season.


Here are some players I'm paying attention to as conference play continues. Probably won't make Top Two teams but could make Honorable mention.

  • Mikesell has some talented teammates at OSU. Rebeka Mikulasikova is a revelation on improving, once given a chance (thanks Dorka!). Cotie McMahon is going to make a lot of top-frosh lists if she plays like she has the last few games.
  • Michigan has a three-headed hydra of Emily Kiser/Laila Phelia/Leigha Brown. Will Kiser hang tough in the B1G? Brown tends to shine in the big games, but Phelia might be the star down the road.
  • Makenna Marisa is a really good player (1500 points) on a perfectly mediocre Penn State (at best) team.
  • Celeste Taylor of Duke is one of those players you choose on your sandlot team because she does everything well and won't overshoot. Here's the difference from past years: her long-distance shooting is getting more consistent.
  • A somewhat similar player to Taylor is Sonia Citron, who is Miles running mate at ND. While averaging 14.9 ppg, she's shooting 54% from overall, 44% from three and 88% from the FT line, while racking up 6.5 rpg, leading the Irish in minutes and usually drawing the toughest defensive assignment. In my opinion, excellence shouldn't be limited to scoring averages, but there are only so many slots on each team. Still, ND's not the same team without #11.
  • Alisa Pili is putting up some seriously consistent scoring and rebounding totals for Utah. Let's see how that plays out in in-league play.
  • Will continue to see if Hayley Frank can score nearly 17 ppg for Missouri in the SEC.


-
 
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HuskyNan

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Thanks for researching and compiling this list. I was planning on replying yesterday but got pulled into watching Tulane's comeback (USC's collapse?) and the Penn State - Utah (American) football games.
My husband, the ND football fan, is ready to adopt Tulane as a third team to root for. He was pulling for Utah (beat USC twice) but the mojo ran out.
 

CBus13

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Mikulasikova started the season strong but her last 7 games she's scored a total of 56 points. Seems to be regressing towards the mean. The single game in that run where she scored in double digits was against Oregon and had 27, which was an impressive and valuable output. So, she averages 8 points a game in those 7 games, to drop her average to 14.3. Mikesell now leads the team in scoring and Thierry leads the team in rebounds. Ohio State might not even have an All-American this season do to their style of play that doesn't really require one person to consistently be the star, but I'd have to imagine if one person gets the nod it would be Mikesell.

From the games I've seen the only post players who really deserve All-American team placement, are Edwards and Brink. I know a lot has been said about how Boston doesn't play as many minutes this season because of the talent and level of competition, but the games I have seen her play she doesn't seem like the same hyper-focused talent from last season. Her rebounds and FGA are down by 4 each from last season, I know she's playing 4 less minutes a game but her averages this season at 11.4pts, 8.9 rebounds, 1.6 blocks in 23.2 minutes. But Brink averages 13.2 pts, 8.9 rebounds, and 3.1 blocks on 21.4 minutes. Much has been said about Brink's fouling but her fouls per game average is actually down by .7 so far this season. I still think Boston is a tremendous talent and if she gets rolling in the coming games and into the post season SCAR will be tough, but so far, it's too much Cooke on the ball. I'd really think SCAR would average more than 15 assists a game with Boston, Cardoso, and Saxton in the paint...but I guess that's up from last season. Must not be the style they want to play.

EDIT I need to amend that Mackenzie Holmes for IU is an impressive post player who deserve AA recognition.
 
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Dillon77

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My husband, the ND football fan, is ready to adopt Tulane as a third team to root for. He was pulling for Utah (beat USC twice) but the mojo ran out.
I probably watched 5 minutes of Tulane football all season, but was channel surfing and saw the Green Wave-Trojan was relatively close, so I stuck with it. Glad I did. Late 4th quarter was a rush! Lincoln Riley needs to pay some attention to (some form of) defense for the Trojans next year.

As for the Irish, QB Tyler Buchner was must-see TV. He givith, he taketh away...but you couldn't take your eyes off him. A normally staid golf restaurant (my brother's club) sounded like a sports bar watching him. We'll see what happens in the off-season/next year but it was a heck of a closer to the season.

Now, back to our regularly scheduled sport....:)
 
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DefenseBB

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Some good and some interesting feedback on this thread. Before I post the various stats that I compiled on this list of players, let me give my perspective of the world this AA selection operates in:
  • As Dillon correctly noted, certain players are already in the Scribes national consciousness like Aaliyah Boston and Haley Jones and as they are on the dominant 2 teams in the country, it will be hard to unseat them even if their stats PROVE they do not warrant those accolades. Just the nature of the beast.
  • Conversely, teams that are not in the elite status and whose players are having only good years, will not be considered-Van Ohlhoffen-OSU, Taylor-Duke, Marissa-PSU, Brown-Mich, Kiser-Mich, Phelia-Mich to name a few.
  • However, a player whose stats are phenomenal but whose team is merely good will warrant a review-See Ta'Niya Latson from FSU, who IS having a phenomenal start to her college career. Against 8 P6 teams and 8 others, she is averaging 25.2 points, shooting 50/41/84 along with 35 steals. Those are impressive regardless. But this is still only early January so all of the ACC conference play will determine both her and FSU's success and her candidacy.
  • Great teams with secondary stars whose stats are merely complimentary will not garner accolades-Mikulasikova fits that as both Mikesell and Sheldon (when healthy) drive that team. Plus her stats are not really that impressive when compared to the other front court players. Additionally, Nika needs to improve her scoring and drive this UConn team against the elite (TN and SC are left on this schedule) otherwise she too is lost in the complimentary player category despite most of us knowing she is the energizer bunny. Truth hurts-Sorry.
In reviewing the actual stats from 14-16 games completed by most of these players. Caitlin Clark is the CLEAR Player of the Year. Statistically, she is shooting better this year 45/37/82 with 7.4 rebounds per game and 6.9 assists while averaging 27.1 pts per game. The next best is Angel Reese from LSU but her stats are against pathetic teams. If she keeps up in SEC play (and she is that talented) she would garner support.
Last note-Alissa Pili really is having a great year thus far and if Utah continues and performs well in PAC12 play, she should be considered for AA.
 

DefenseBB

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NameSchoolPosGPAvgFGFGAFG%3FG3FGA3FG%FTFTAFT%RRebATOBlkStPtsAve
SiegristVillanovaF
15​
34​
157​
298​
53%​
26​
63​
41%​
80​
95​
84%​
142​
9.47​
20​
22​
14​
23​
420​
28.00​
ReeseLSUF
14​
31.4​
129​
215​
60%​
0​
3​
0%​
77​
117​
66%​
209​
14.93​
37​
29​
20​
27​
335​
23.93​
HolmesIndianaC
14​
28.9​
120​
176​
68%​
1​
5​
20%​
52​
72​
72%​
107​
7.64​
17​
23​
25​
11​
293​
20.93​
EdwardsUConnF
13​
33.6​
91​
147​
62%​
1​
1​
100%​
41​
55​
75%​
128​
9.85​
36​
40​
15​
11​
224​
17.23​
BostonSCC
14​
23.7​
58​
103​
56%​
0​
8​
0%​
43​
58​
74%​
125​
8.93​
19​
19​
23​
7​
159​
11.36​
BrinkStanfordC
16​
21.5​
73​
130​
56%​
8​
31​
26%​
57​
76​
75%​
142​
8.88​
26​
30​
49​
10​
211​
13.19​
PiliUtahF
14​
24.2​
114​
179​
64%​
12​
30​
40%​
36​
45​
80%​
86​
6.14​
30​
30​
14​
17​
276​
19.71​
KitleyVPIC
14​
33.6​
100​
185​
54%​
1​
4​
25%​
55​
73​
75%​
152​
10.86​
23​
32​
30​
9​
256​
18.29​
MorrowDePaulF
15​
34.1​
159​
365​
44%​
19​
90​
21%​
57​
94​
61%​
178​
11.87​
24​
42​
15​
43​
394​
26.27​
CzinanoIowaC
15​
29.2​
107​
173​
62%​
0​
1​
0%​
48​
67​
72%​
102​
6.80​
21​
25​
3​
10​
262​
17.47​
MiktOSUC
15​
27.6​
83​
159​
52%​
22​
61​
36%​
26​
34​
76%​
82​
5.47​
29​
31​
0​
14​
214​
14.27​
ClarkIowaG
15​
33.3​
131​
288​
45%​
47​
128​
37%​
98​
119​
82%​
111​
7.40​
104​
51​
6​
27​
407​
27.13​
LatsonFSUG
16​
29.3​
136​
271​
50%​
24​
59​
41%​
107​
127​
84%​
80​
5.00​
51​
53​
14​
35​
403​
25.19​
MikeselltOSUG
15​
33.2​
92​
210​
44%​
46​
116​
40%​
33​
37​
89%​
48​
3.20​
38​
21​
4​
25​
267​
17.80​
CookeSCG
14​
24.1​
71​
170​
42%​
28​
75​
37%​
44​
55​
80%​
20​
1.43​
31​
20​
16​
214​
15.29​
JonesStanfordG
16​
28.9​
85​
173​
49%​
3​
21​
14%​
39​
51​
76%​
123​
7.69​
61​
41​
10​
16​
212​
13.25​
Van OelhoffenOSUG
14​
30.9​
76​
180​
42%​
25​
76​
33%​
56​
62​
90%​
80​
5.71​
47​
32​
9​
20​
233​
16.64​
TaylorDukeG
14​
27.3​
63​
143​
44%​
19​
51​
37%​
25​
33​
76%​
59​
4.21​
28​
27​
7​
29​
170​
12.14​
MuhlUConnG
12​
34.8​
22​
56​
39%​
13​
36​
36%​
14​
22​
64%​
46​
3.83​
115​
39​
1​
18​
71​
5.92​
 
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Thanks for the chart. That's good work assembling all these "direct" stats. I'd also like to see the complex stats.

Clark lost out to Paige in her freshman year even though she had better "direct" stats. Paige had better "WinShares" iirc. I think lots of folks thought Clark was the CLEAR choice for POY then.
 

MilfordHusky

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I haven't seen that many games this season, but I like our pair of Aaliyah Edwards and Lou Lopez-Senechal. I love Azzi Fudd when she's healthy.

Boston's numbers are down substantially from last year. She was a non-factor in the Georgia game. She is not my NPOY. First team? Not based on this year.

I think I would take Stanford's Brink over Jones.

I would definitely consider Miles, though she has been a bit up and down.

Angel Reese piled up big numbers against cupcakes. We'll see how she does against real teams.

Clark is prolific as usual, but not efficient.

I like Maddie Siegrist for the top 10.
 

MilfordHusky

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Lots of great candidates. I couldn't leave Haley Jones off any AA list. Impossible to ignore how impactful Haley Jones is to the Stanford WBB Team.

For me, it's a question of where HaJo is on a list? Top 5? Top 20? I don't think she's playing at a top 5 level, but she's definitely in the top 20.
 

Coler

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I haven't seen that many games this season, but I like our pair of Aaliyah Edwards and Lou Lopez-Senechal. I love Azzi Fudd when she's healthy.

Boston's numbers are down substantially from last year. She was a non-factor in the Georgia game. She is not my NPOY. First team? Not based on this year.

I think I would take Stanford's Brink over Jones.

I would definitely consider Miles, though she has been a bit up and down.

Angel Reese piled up big numbers against cupcakes. We'll see how she does against real teams.

Clark is prolific as usual, but not efficient.

I like Maddie Siegrist for the top 10.
25/20r against Oregon State
19/16 vs Arkansas
21/17 vs Vandy

Those aren't cupcakes.
 
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Lots of great candidates. I couldn't leave Haley Jones off any AA list. Impossible to ignore how impactful Haley Jones is to the Stanford WBB Team.
Well said, LoTrader.

'My guess is the scribes will cite intangibles like leadership and poise (hogwash I say!).'

So said DefenseBB earlier on this thread, hopefully with a generous helping of snark, about Haley Jones.

Seriously, 'hogwash?' Leadership and poise don't count toward a player's All-American credentials? Yikes! You couldn't possibly have meant that.

Okay, then let's see what Haley has been doing statistically, an area in which many on the BY regularly disparage the Stanford All-American:

As Stanford's schedule has gotten tougher, so has Haley's statistical game improved. During the last five games, against Tennessee, Creighton, California, Arizona State and Arizona, Haley is averaging 18 points on 57 percent shooting, and bringing down 10 rebounds per game. For the season, she's shooting 49 percent... that she's 15 percent for threes is almost inconsequential. She shoots about one per game.

As I said on a recent thread, those who don't have Jones on their All-American teams don't watch her play.
 
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I haven't seen that many games this season, but I like our pair of Aaliyah Edwards and Lou Lopez-Senechal. I love Azzi Fudd when she's healthy.

Boston's numbers are down substantially from last year. She was a non-factor in the Georgia game. She is not my NPOY. First team? Not based on this year.

I think I would take Stanford's Brink over Jones.

I would definitely consider Miles, though she has been a bit up and down.

Angel Reese piled up big numbers against cupcakes. We'll see how she does against real teams.

Clark is prolific as usual, but not efficient.

I like Maddie Siegrist for the top 10.
I’m not the most passionate defender of Clark but 45.5% shooting is pretty efficient for a guard taking the volume (and difficulty level) of shots she does.

Now, do I think she could abandon a few of the logo threes a game and raise to 48ish%? Probably.
 

DefenseBB

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Thanks for the chart. That's good work assembling all these "direct" stats. I'd also like to see the complex stats.

Clark lost out to Paige in her freshman year even though she had better "direct" stats. Paige had better "WinShares" iirc. I think lots of folks thought Clark was the CLEAR choice for POY then.
Ok, I did or tried to do some "WinShares" research for WCBB to no avail. Do you know the formula? I did however find the "Efficiency" calculation which is PTS+Rebounds+Assists+Blocks+Steals-missed shots-TURNOVERS.
Here is the top 10 list using that metric from data above. I did add in Aliyah Edwards game stats tonight, which moved her from 8th to 7th. Angel Reese would be the dominant player at this juncture (again she has played only cupcakes). And yes, @bballnut90 I ran her numbers from 2021-22 which produced a 23.7 Efficiency so tougher competition lowered her effectiveness. h.
Name
Reese36.6
Siegrist30.4
Clark29.8
Morrow27.1
Holmes26.7
Kitley25.2
Edwards24.9
Latson24.6
Pili23.4
Brink21.9
 
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HerHoopStats has advanced stats, including Win Shares. I’m not currently subscribed, but they have a small sample for non-subscribers under “Notable NCAA Players”.
 

Sluconn Husky

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HerHoopStats has advanced stats, including Win Shares. I’m not currently subscribed, but they have a small sample for non-subscribers under “Notable NCAA Players”.

Lot of good win shares do. Napheesa Collier led the nation in win shares her senior season and wasn't a finalist for the Naismith award.
 
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Thanks again, @DefenseBB, for this. I don’t have a formula for WinShares. Looking at the PER table you have produced, and making an eyeball correction for SoS, it looks like Holmes is the most credible leader. Of course, that’s just my guess on the assumption that Indiana leads the others in SoS. Perhaps a case could be made for Siegrist or Clark. And I have no idea how an SoS factor could actually be incorporated to make more nuanced adjustments.
 
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The AP has 5 team member 1st team; WBCA has a 10-member 1st team consideration

My list thus far is with the first 5 being AP:
  • Boston-SC
  • Clark-Iowa
  • Brink-Stanford
  • Reese-LSU
  • Miles-ND

  • Edwards-UConn
  • Holmes-Indiana
  • Siegrist-Villanova
  • Mikesell-OSU
  • Osborne-UCLA
Now, due to injuries, Jacy Sheldon and Azzi Fudd are not on the list. Once both return, Azzi could replace Miles on the 1st 5 (AP team) if she returns to form and she has a good game against both Tennessee and SC. Notable absentees are Haley Jones whose stats are down this year 49% FG and 15% 3 point shooting and on a team lacking Guards, she is only averaging 3.73 assists. My guess is the scribes will cite intangibles like leadership and poise (hogwash I say!). The Big 12 is not represented with their best player probably being Ashley Joens G/F.

In reviewing the stats and lists, I was surprised by the stats that Taylor Mikesell is putting up and if tOSU keeps winning, she has to get serious consideration. Osborne is on the fringe but gets the nod at the moment.

Honorable mention goes to Latson-FSU, Kitley-VaTech, Morrow-DePaul, Miller-Maryland.

What say you my fellow WCBB acolytes?
My five would be Siegrist, Morrow, Caitlin Clark, Angel Reese, McKenna Hofschild (I know this one is out of left field but she’s like 5’2, leads the nation in assist to turnover ratio, 2nd in the nation in assists, leads her team in scoring and shoots very efficiently). Siegrists numbers are ridiculous, she’s shooting over 50/40/80 and averaging less than 2 turnovers a game on a team where she has not much of a supporting cast. My player of the year so far.
 
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If you are taking Boston off this list you need to move Zia Cooke onto it. Teams are literally triple teaming Boston to the point of being ridiculous and Zia is taking advantage of it. If SC remains the #1 team in the country one of those will be on it.
 

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