Big 10 Over Hyped



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Analyzing the bubble in detail I'm a bit ticked off that Rutgers, Md, Indiana, and Minnestota are getting the benefit of the supposedly great Big 10. I think the teams are tough at the top based on the eye test, but the OOC record for the entire league is not impressive. The whole league of 14 teams has played a total of 31 games against what I would classify as being other significant programs. The league is only 17-14 in those games. Michigan didn't play any top teams at all. Maryland only played Clemson and lost by -16. Rutgers beat Syracuse but that is their only worthy out of conference game played game.

The 17 wins league wide includes: 3 wins over Notre Dame, 1 vs BC, 1 vs Syracuse, 1 vs Providence, 1 vs Butler, and 1 vs Rhode Island. Are those 8 wins impressive? The other 9 bonafide wins; 2 vs Duke, 1 North Carolina, 1 Louisville, 1 UCLA, 1 VCU, 1 Virginia Tech, 1 Stanford, 1 St Louis. How do these 17 wins rate the esteem they have been granted. NO TEAM IN THE BIG TEN WON A GAME AGAINST A BIG 12 OR SEC OPPONENT, NOR ANY TOP BIG EAST TEAM. ZERO. Yet they are drooled over based on commentator paper evaluation. Not 1 of the wins in the conference is against projected high seeds. The conference win by Penn State against Virginia Tech is the only conference win against the top 32 teams that were in Lunardi's field this morning. That means none of the BIG TEN teams projected to be in the NCAA field have a single win over any of the top 32 teams in the field from other conferences.

The league lost to 14 major schools: Illinois lost to Baylor by -15, and to Missouri by -15. Iowa Lost to Gonzaga by -11, Md lost to Clemson by -16, and Purdue lost to Clemson by -11, Indiana Lost to Texas by -22, Creighton beat Nebraska by -24, Marquette beat Wisconsin, and there were other losses to Florida St, Pitt, Nevada, Miami, Georgia Tech, and Seton Hall. Eight of the conference losses are to out of conference teams that are part of Lunardi's top 32 seeds. So the all powerful Big 10 is 0-8 vs other top teams in the field.

Penn State, Nebraska, Northwestern, are sacrificial lambs to the win totals of other teams like Depaul is for us. I suppose the Big Ten should be given credit for their history of winning in the tournament. I think there was a champion from the Big Ten 20 to 25 years ago before we had one of our 4 championships.

To summarize. BITE ME. Get these 13-10 teams to the end of the line where they belong.
 
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Been thinking the same thing all year. The lack of a real OOC schedule has allowed the charade to go on all season. To be fair to the human commentators, the weird schedule also skewed all the metrics so things like KenPom etc continue to overrate the leagues and will until the tournament.
 
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O/U on How many big10 teams make the sweet 16? I’ll say 4.5 out of the 11
 
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O/U on How many big10 teams make the sweet 16? I’ll say 4.5 out of the 11
2000 was the last time a B10 won it all (1 championship in 30 years). Much of that post is warranted. The conference rarely has a performance that justifies the lofty expectations and rankings between November and early March.
 
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This is the argument the BE dealt with in 2011. I only doubt Minnesota and Indiana at this point but they are bubble worthy. Rutgers has done their part and I fully support them being in
 

willie99

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A whole lot of self-intoxicating love. That's the beauty of SOS. Team A is better because they played Team B. Team C is better because they played Team A, and team B is better because they played teams A and C.

This year even more so than other years, it's hard to judge how good a conference is without significant interconference games
 
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Analyzing the bubble in detail I'm a bit ticked off that Rutgers, Md, Indiana, and Minnestota are getting the benefit of the supposedly great Big 10. I think the teams are tough at the top based on the eye test, but the OOC record for the entire league is not impressive. The whole league of 14 teams has played a total of 31 games against what I would classify as being other significant programs. The league is only 17-14 in those games. Michigan didn't play any top teams at all. Maryland only played Clemson and lost by -16. Rutgers beat Syracuse but that is their only worthy out of conference game played game.

The 17 wins league wide includes: 3 wins over Notre Dame, 1 vs BC, 1 vs Syracuse, 1 vs Providence, 1 vs Butler, and 1 vs Rhode Island. Are those 8 wins impressive? The other 9 bonafide wins; 2 vs Duke, 1 North Carolina, 1 Louisville, 1 UCLA, 1 VCU, 1 Virginia Tech, 1 Stanford, 1 St Louis. How do these 17 wins rate the esteem they have been granted. NO TEAM IN THE BIG TEN WON A GAME AGAINST A BIG 12 OR SEC OPPONENT, NOR ANY TOP BIG EAST TEAM. ZERO. Yet they are drooled over based on commentator paper evaluation. Not 1 of the wins in the conference is against projected high seeds. The conference win by Penn State against Virginia Tech is the only conference win against the top 32 teams that were in Lunardi's field this morning. That means none of the BIG TEN teams projected to be in the NCAA field have a single win over any of the top 32 teams in the field from other conferences.

The league lost to 14 major schools: Illinois lost to Baylor by -15, and to Missouri by -15. Iowa Lost to Gonzaga by -11, Md lost to Clemson by -16, and Purdue lost to Clemson by -11, Indiana Lost to Texas by -22, Creighton beat Nebraska by -24, Marquette beat Wisconsin, and there were other losses to Florida St, Pitt, Nevada, Miami, Georgia Tech, and Seton Hall. Eight of the conference losses are to out of conference teams that are part of Lunardi's top 32 seeds. So the all powerful Big 10 is 0-8 vs other top teams in the field.

Penn State, Nebraska, Northwestern, are sacrificial lambs to the win totals of other teams like Depaul is for us. I suppose the Big Ten should be given credit for their history of winning in the tournament. I think there was a champion from the Big Ten 20 to 25 years ago before we had one of our 4 championships.

To summarize. BITE ME. Get these 13-10 teams to the end of the line where they belong.
Can you please send this or tweet to one of the college bball talking heads.

Excellent commentary.
 

CTBasketball

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I think the Big 10 sees a lot of first weekend upsets. I’ve watched a good amount of their games, and only Illinois and Wisconsin stick out as teams that can go far.

Michigan, Ohio State, and Iowa all lack really great (and deep) guard play. They have nice frontcourts but watching their offense is painful. It’s not as bad as UConn’s, but close.

Rutgers can also make a splash into the second weekend I think. They have the talent. Purdue, Indiana, Minnesota, Maryland and the rest of them are so meh. They would struggle in the Big East, and any other power conference.
 
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Analyzing the bubble in detail I'm a bit ticked off that Rutgers, Md, Indiana, and Minnestota are getting the benefit of the supposedly great Big 10. I think the teams are tough at the top based on the eye test, but the OOC record for the entire league is not impressive. The whole league of 14 teams has played a total of 31 games against what I would classify as being other significant programs. The league is only 17-14 in those games. Michigan didn't play any top teams at all. Maryland only played Clemson and lost by -16. Rutgers beat Syracuse but that is their only worthy out of conference game played game.

The 17 wins league wide includes: 3 wins over Notre Dame, 1 vs BC, 1 vs Syracuse, 1 vs Providence, 1 vs Butler, and 1 vs Rhode Island. Are those 8 wins impressive? The other 9 bonafide wins; 2 vs Duke, 1 North Carolina, 1 Louisville, 1 UCLA, 1 VCU, 1 Virginia Tech, 1 Stanford, 1 St Louis. How do these 17 wins rate the esteem they have been granted. NO TEAM IN THE BIG TEN WON A GAME AGAINST A BIG 12 OR SEC OPPONENT, NOR ANY TOP BIG EAST TEAM. ZERO. Yet they are drooled over based on commentator paper evaluation. Not 1 of the wins in the conference is against projected high seeds. The conference win by Penn State against Virginia Tech is the only conference win against the top 32 teams that were in Lunardi's field this morning. That means none of the BIG TEN teams projected to be in the NCAA field have a single win over any of the top 32 teams in the field from other conferences.

The league lost to 14 major schools: Illinois lost to Baylor by -15, and to Missouri by -15. Iowa Lost to Gonzaga by -11, Md lost to Clemson by -16, and Purdue lost to Clemson by -11, Indiana Lost to Texas by -22, Creighton beat Nebraska by -24, Marquette beat Wisconsin, and there were other losses to Florida St, Pitt, Nevada, Miami, Georgia Tech, and Seton Hall. Eight of the conference losses are to out of conference teams that are part of Lunardi's top 32 seeds. So the all powerful Big 10 is 0-8 vs other top teams in the field.

Penn State, Nebraska, Northwestern, are sacrificial lambs to the win totals of other teams like Depaul is for us. I suppose the Big Ten should be given credit for their history of winning in the tournament. I think there was a champion from the Big Ten 20 to 25 years ago before we had one of our 4 championships.

To summarize. BITE ME. Get these 13-10 teams to the end of the line where they belong.

Great analysis. I wish someone in the national media would make light of this.
 

tzznandrew

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2000 was the last time a B10 won it all (1 championship in 30 years). Much of that post is warranted. The conference rarely has a performance that justifies the lofty expectations and rankings between November and early March.
Sure, they haven't won the title, but it's not like they're all out first weekend. Michigan State, Michigan, Ohio State, and Wisconsin have all played in the title game.

Maybe they haven't had the best team, but they've had a variety of really good, final weekend teams.

I think they're overrated this year, but let's not overstate the case here.
 
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The Big East got in 11 and got demolished in the first two weeks. Thank God Uconn won it all! The same argument back then existed. So comparing the B10 to other conferences, they have a legitimate 9 in my opinion. Not in any specific order
Ohio State
Michigan
M State
Illinois
Wisconsin
Rutgers
Purdue
Iowa
Maryland

Indiana and Minnesota eh not sure yet
 
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The Big East got in 11 and got demolished in the first two weeks. Thank God Uconn won it all! The same argument back then existed. So comparing the B10 to other conferences, they have a legitimate 9 in my opinion. Not in any specific order
Ohio State
Michigan
M State
Illinois
Wisconsin
Rutgers
Purdue
Iowa
Maryland

Indiana and Minnesota eh not sure yet
Not exactly the same argument. The BE murdered their non con matchups in 2011.
 
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This is going to be a tough year to be a good mid major. There really is very little by way of measuring stick for how conferences compare, so they will fall back on picking by names. Who will draw eyeballs. And that means the Big 10, ACC will get the benefit of the doubt. The B12 and SEC are both really deep anyway but will probably get extra spots as will the Big East which is Villanova and Creighton. Probably deserving of 3 bids but will get 5. If I’m a really good mid major coach I would be really hoping I don’t lose in the conference tournament because my team has no chance. I also think after losing last year the NCAA and the tv folks can’t have any interlopers in the final four. While Loyolas and Virginia Commonwealths draw attention in the early rounds, they tend not to get the audience in the Semi-finals. The NCAA needs 4 household names this year.
 

olehead

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Analyzing the bubble in detail I'm a bit ticked off that Rutgers, Md, Indiana, and Minnestota are getting the benefit of the supposedly great Big 10. I think the teams are tough at the top based on the eye test, but the OOC record for the entire league is not impressive. The whole league of 14 teams has played a total of 31 games against what I would classify as being other significant programs. The league is only 17-14 in those games. Michigan didn't play any top teams at all. Maryland only played Clemson and lost by -16. Rutgers beat Syracuse but that is their only worthy out of conference game played game.

The 17 wins league wide includes: 3 wins over Notre Dame, 1 vs BC, 1 vs Syracuse, 1 vs Providence, 1 vs Butler, and 1 vs Rhode Island. Are those 8 wins impressive? The other 9 bonafide wins; 2 vs Duke, 1 North Carolina, 1 Louisville, 1 UCLA, 1 VCU, 1 Virginia Tech, 1 Stanford, 1 St Louis. How do these 17 wins rate the esteem they have been granted. NO TEAM IN THE BIG TEN WON A GAME AGAINST A BIG 12 OR SEC OPPONENT, NOR ANY TOP BIG EAST TEAM. ZERO. Yet they are drooled over based on commentator paper evaluation. Not 1 of the wins in the conference is against projected high seeds. The conference win by Penn State against Virginia Tech is the only conference win against the top 32 teams that were in Lunardi's field this morning. That means none of the BIG TEN teams projected to be in the NCAA field have a single win over any of the top 32 teams in the field from other conferences.

The league lost to 14 major schools: Illinois lost to Baylor by -15, and to Missouri by -15. Iowa Lost to Gonzaga by -11, Md lost to Clemson by -16, and Purdue lost to Clemson by -11, Indiana Lost to Texas by -22, Creighton beat Nebraska by -24, Marquette beat Wisconsin, and there were other losses to Florida St, Pitt, Nevada, Miami, Georgia Tech, and Seton Hall. Eight of the conference losses are to out of conference teams that are part of Lunardi's top 32 seeds. So the all powerful Big 10 is 0-8 vs other top teams in the field.

Penn State, Nebraska, Northwestern, are sacrificial lambs to the win totals of other teams like Depaul is for us. I suppose the Big Ten should be given credit for their history of winning in the tournament. I think there was a champion from the Big Ten 20 to 25 years ago before we had one of our 4 championships.

To summarize. BITE ME. Get these 13-10 teams to the end of the line where they belong.
Thanks for this. I wanted to get my gripe on about how overblown the BIG is. We're competing with ok teams like Rutgers and Indiana for seeding, give me a break. Both institutions can thank league affiliation rather than on-court performance in the event they make it in the tournament.
 

willie99

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Changing sports, I remember the season where everyone thought Michigan should replay Ohio St for the national championship. They were thought to be the two best teams in the country and their first game was amazing

Well, the selection committee didn't listen. The end result is that both Ohio St and Michigan were non competitive in their respective bowl games. They were both destroyed. If they were given that rematch, the country would still be thinking that they were the two best teams that year.

You have to play the game(s)
 

McLovin

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I never understood the analysts have with the big ten in basketball. They haven’t won a title in 2 decades.

edit: outside of the urban years at OSU their football power has been overrated too for the past 20 years.
 
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I think the Big 10 sees a lot of first weekend upsets. I’ve watched a good amount of their games, and only Illinois and Wisconsin stick out as teams that can go far.

Michigan, Ohio State, and Iowa all lack really great (and deep) guard play. They have nice frontcourts but watching their offense is painful. It’s not as bad as UConn’s, but close.

Rutgers can also make a splash into the second weekend I think. They have the talent. Purdue, Indiana, Minnesota, Maryland and the rest of them are so meh. They would struggle in the Big East, and any other power conference.
Michigan is LEGIT and easily one of the best teams in the country brother
 
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I haven’t been impressed by them!
Well I can respect that bro.. and I agree with you about Ohio St and especially Iowa and the big 10 in general.. im just impressed by what juwan Howard has done with them so far.. I think only them and maybe the Illini can make a run because with ayo dosunmu I can see them takin off.. MAYBE
 

CTBasketball

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Well I can respect that bro.. and I agree with you about Ohio St and especially Iowa and the big 10 in general.. im just impressed by what juwan Howard has done with them so far.. I think only them and maybe the Illini can make a run because with ayo dosunmu I can see them takin off.. MAYBE
The whole Big Ten over inflation is a very good argument. I think Illinois is the most tournament capable team too.

I’ve watched a lot of Iowa and they do not impress me at all. Dump it down to Garza and see what happens, they push the ball but it’s slow. In general I think the Big Ten will see issues with smaller teams running wild and spraying 3s.

Once someone punches Michigan in the mouth I expect them to stay down. Only team capable of fighting back is Illinois.
 
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The whole Big Ten over inflation is a very good argument. I think Illinois is the most tournament capable team too.

I’ve watched a lot of Iowa and they do not impress me at all. Dump it down to Garza and see what happens, they push the ball but it’s slow. In general I think the Big Ten will see issues with smaller teams running wild and spraying 3s.

Once someone punches Michigan in the mouth I expect them to stay down. Only team capable of fighting back is Illinois.
Yes I definitely agree with you overall
 
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Using Lunardi's brackets from yesterday, Rutgers was #30, Maryland #37, Indiana #43, Minn #46 in the field. I'm tossing out quad wins, nets, Pom ratings, home and away, eye tests, and just parsing these teams on my own criteria which I will explain. Start with the overall record, conference record, and OOC. Subtract OOC cupcake games where the opponent shouldn't win, to equal adjusted record. Now you have an Adjusted Record against caliber teams.

Now I want to parse the conference record.
What was the record against the top 5 big ten teams (Mich/OhioSt/Illinois/Wisc/Iowa)
What was the record of these bubble teams against each other (Indiana/rutgers/Minn/Md)
Record vs Yeoman teams (MichSt/PennSt/Purdue) Teams that win their share a la Butler/Gtown
Record vs Bottom Feeders (Nebraska/Northwestern)
Big Boy Record excluding bottom feeders

Edit: Sorry guys - these columns are set up nice until they're posted

Rec Conf OOC Cup AdjRec OOC Top Bbbl Yeo Bttm x-Bttm
Rutgers 12-9 8-9 4-0 -3-0 9-9 1-0 (syr) 1-6 3-1 2-2 2-0 7-9
Maryland 14-10 8-9 6-1 -6-0 8-10 0-1 Clem 2-5 3-2 1-2 2-0 6-10
Indiana 12-10 7-8 5-2 -2-0 10-10 3-2 2-4 2-1 1-2 2-1 8-9
Minn 13-10 6-10 7-0 -5-0 8-10 2-0 3-5 0-4 2-1 1-0 7-10

Indiana OOC wins vs Prov, Stanford, Butler, FL St good loss in OT, Wisc & Illinois Losses in OT
Minn win vs Michigan, OOC St Louis & BC,

What in the world accounts for Rutgers at #30 in the field?

Remaining vs Top Bubble Yeoman Bottom
Rutgers 0 Ind/Minn 0 Neb
Maryland 0 0 MichSt/PennSt NW
Indiana Mich Rutgers MichSt/Purdue 0
Minn 0 Rutgers Penn St Neb/NW

Hope these columns come out straight when posted
Edit: They didn't - good luck
 
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