Belichick system | The Boneyard

Belichick system

HuskyHawk

The triumphant return of the Blues Brothers.
Joined
Sep 12, 2011
Messages
31,862
Reaction Score
81,489
Joined
Aug 24, 2011
Messages
10,833
Reaction Score
28,324
1610308963955.jpg
 
Joined
Aug 24, 2011
Messages
10,833
Reaction Score
28,324
Maybe give the guy some weapons?
So, I was looking at the numbers. In 2015, Brady had a 64% completion rate, 4,770 yds, 36 TDs and 7 ints. His WR's were Edelman, Brandon LaFell, Danny Amendola and Keyshawn Martin. He was already 38 at that point so it's not like he was young.

Did the lack of weapons hurt him there?
 

HuskyHawk

The triumphant return of the Blues Brothers.
Joined
Sep 12, 2011
Messages
31,862
Reaction Score
81,489
So, I was looking at the numbers. In 2015, Brady had a 64% completion rate, 4,770 yds, 36 TDs and 7 ints. His WR's were Edelman, Brandon LaFell, Danny Amendola and Keyshawn Martin. He was already 38 at that point so it's not like he was young.

Did the lack of weapons hurt him there?

Not sure what your point is. Josh's offense has needed a major overhaul for years. The reason they didn't is because Brady knew it so well and his knowledge was an asset. On the other hand, that overly complex system was very difficult for new players to learn.

I think 2020 was a transition year. They incorporated some read option but it remained too structured and complex. More changes will come this season. Tampa has as good a receiving corps as exist in the NFL. Brady was sacked 21 times vs 27 in 2019. But he only avoided that sack total being higher by throwing the ball away frequently last year (37 times). The OL was a disaster, playing almost all backups and 3rd string guys.
 
Joined
Aug 24, 2011
Messages
10,833
Reaction Score
28,324
I guess I don't know what to think. These are all things I've heard over the years.

1) Brady was a system QB, it was really Belichick.
2) Brady doesn't need the talent, he makes guys like Chris Hogan work.
3) Brady didn't do well last year because he didn't have the talent around him.
4) Brady's cooked. You could see it last year.

Then he goes to a new team, new system, new coach, no preseason, limitations on practicing....and puts up a great year.
 

HuskyHawk

The triumphant return of the Blues Brothers.
Joined
Sep 12, 2011
Messages
31,862
Reaction Score
81,489
I guess I don't know what to think. These are all things I've heard over the years.

1) Brady was a system QB, it was really Belichick.
2) Brady doesn't need the talent, he makes guys like Chris Hogan work.
3) Brady didn't do well last year because he didn't have the talent around him.
4) Brady's cooked. You could see it last year.

Then he goes to a new team, new system, new coach, no preseason, limitations on practicing....and puts up a great year.

Brady is a great QB. He has often played without great receivers. In the Patriots system he made that work because it was about precision and timing. The basketball equivalent of a perfect backdoor cut run by Princeton. He did have Moss and Gronk who could do more, and guys like Branch, Welker and Edelman who got open with superior quickness (if not straight line speed).

Arians runs a vertical passing system that relies on talent at WR to beat their man. Brady had a whole bunch of early hiccups adapting to that. As he became comfortable he was very good at executing it. He has 2 good TEs, three very good WR, 2 good RBs and a good OL. That offense is loaded.

Brady was not good in 2019 because the OL was obliterated and he's a human statue. Running an offense that is based on timing and precise route running, with pre-snap reads doesn't work if they other team can blitz you every down and get to you in about 2 seconds. It's worse when the receivers are young and don't know your pre-snap reads and route adjustments. Even then he threw for 4000 yards.

Miami fired their OC before this season. He was a Patriots guy. Flores said he can't run a Patriots offense with young players. The trend is away from complex pre-snap reads and adjustments, where Brady and Manning were the best ever, to post snap adjustments. Defenses disguise coverage so well that the adjustments frequently come post snap. Improvisational, athletic guys making plays. You can see it with most of the QBs still playing. Mahomes, Allen, Mayfield, Jackson etc. QB mobility, and read option means the offense is changing the play post snap. Brady can't run that. Brees can't run that. Rodgers probably can.
 

Waquoit

Mr. Positive
Joined
Aug 24, 2011
Messages
32,184
Reaction Score
82,216
So, I was looking at the numbers. In 2015, Brady had a 64% completion rate, 4,770 yds, 36 TDs and 7 ints. His WR's were Edelman, Brandon LaFell, Danny Amendola and Keyshawn Martin. He was already 38 at that point so it's not like he was young.

Did the lack of weapons hurt him there?
Just shows you how great he is. He's even better when he has weapons.
 

HuskyHawk

The triumphant return of the Blues Brothers.
Joined
Sep 12, 2011
Messages
31,862
Reaction Score
81,489
Do any Patriots fans have predictions on what they do at QB? I am sure much depends on how the draft falls and it is hard to predict. Will Bill even want to roll with a rookie? Is there a veteran that will be available at a cheap enough price? I kept hearing Stafford and Ryan but they aren’t going anywhere. Watson would cost too much in draft picks and we have other holes to fill.

I think they need to try to get one of the top 4 guys in the draft, or grab a serviceable but cheap veteran like Fitzgerald or Tyrod Taylor. Maybe both. Somebody who will play on a one year deal.

I think there is a chance that Trey Lance or Zach Wilson slides into the teens. But then there will be teams trying to trade up. Will Bill move up 3-4 spots? He may need to. I think #15 is too early for Mac Jones. He looks like a 2nd round guy to me even with those weapons. His receiving corps at Bama is better than the Patriots have.
 
Joined
Aug 24, 2011
Messages
10,833
Reaction Score
28,324
I don't see what good it would be to bring in Stafford or Ryan. You're not making a run within the next 2-3 years. Strip it down and build it back up while you still have Belichick.
 

HuskyHawk

The triumphant return of the Blues Brothers.
Joined
Sep 12, 2011
Messages
31,862
Reaction Score
81,489
I don't see what good it would be to bring in Stafford or Ryan. You're not making a run within the next 2-3 years. Strip it down and build it back up while you still have Belichick.

I don’t think they are 2-3 years away. They had several Covid opt outs from key players and have loads of salary cap space. They are a QB, WR and DT away from being a playoff team next year. That said, I don’t see them trading away picks for an aging QB. Especially QBs with bigger contracts than they gave Brady. That’s not how Bill does things.
 
Joined
Aug 24, 2011
Messages
10,833
Reaction Score
28,324
I don’t think they are 2-3 years away. They had several Covid opt outs from key players and have loads of salary cap space. They are a QB, WR and DT away from being a playoff team next year. That said, I don’t see them trading away picks for an aging QB. Especially QBs with bigger contracts than they gave Brady. That’s not how Bill does things.

Factor in the division isn't in their laps anymore.
Factor in whoever they get at QB isn't TB12.
Factor in they still have to get through KC, Baltimore, Tennessee, etc.
Factor in they could or will likely have to win road playoff games for once.
 
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
4,085
Reaction Score
2,046
Do any Patriots fans have predictions on what they do at QB? I am sure much depends on how the draft falls and it is hard to predict. Will Bill even want to roll with a rookie? Is there a veteran that will be available at a cheap enough price? I kept hearing Stafford and Ryan but they aren’t going anywhere. Watson would cost too much in draft picks and we have other holes to fill.

I think they need to try to get one of the top 4 guys in the draft, or grab a serviceable but cheap veteran like Fitzgerald or Tyrod Taylor. Maybe both. Somebody who will play on a one year deal.

I think there is a chance that Trey Lance or Zach Wilson slides into the teens. But then there will be teams trying to trade up. Will Bill move up 3-4 spots? He may need to. I think #15 is too early for Mac Jones. He looks like a 2nd round guy to me even with those weapons. His receiving corps at Bama is better than the Patriots have.

Watson is worth ALOT of picks.
 

HuskyHawk

The triumphant return of the Blues Brothers.
Joined
Sep 12, 2011
Messages
31,862
Reaction Score
81,489
Watson is worth ALOT of picks.

Second best QB in the league in my opinion, maybe 3rd if you count Rodgers. But still I wouldn't both pay his huge contract and give up 3 first round picks for him. That's crippling to any franchise. Caserio will talk to him and try to reassure him. No idea why Houston didn't interview Biennamy.
 
Joined
Nov 18, 2019
Messages
581
Reaction Score
2,357
I am glad it was Tampa Bay winning with Brady rather than The Patriots and Belicheck winning without Brady.
 

HuskyHawk

The triumphant return of the Blues Brothers.
Joined
Sep 12, 2011
Messages
31,862
Reaction Score
81,489
Things are getting interesting in the game of QB musical chairs. Russell Wilson evidently annoyed Seattle with his comments. Watson almost has to be moved now, and rumors are he likes Denver and SF, maybe Miami and doesn't want to go to the Jets. That means the Jets likely draft Wilson from BYU...unless they trade for David Carr or Russell Wilson. Wentz may be available too.

I think Belichick is in a really solid position to get somebody capable and possibly draft a QB. Guys like Dalton are going to be available. I can see him taking a chance with somebody like Trubisky as well. Lots of talent, and could be a reclamation project. Not that worried about QB.

The cuts are starting now. With the reduced cap, good player who perform a little under their cap hit are being let go. And New England is there with loads of cap space to grab them. With so many teams over the cap, they aren't able to even compete for those players.
 
Joined
Aug 24, 2011
Messages
10,833
Reaction Score
28,324
With Belichick's poor historical draft results, hoarding of picks and refusal to dole out big FA money, why do you think they're in a really solid position to get a good QB?

They're not giving away the picks for Watson or Wilson. Or the picks to move up for Wilson or Fields. Last year, they appeared headed into week 1 with Stidham and Hoyer until grabbing Cam Newton on the cheap off the scrap heap.
I can absolutely see them going cheap with a Dalton or Carr and finishing 4th place in the AFC East next season.
 

HuskyHawk

The triumphant return of the Blues Brothers.
Joined
Sep 12, 2011
Messages
31,862
Reaction Score
81,489
With Belichick's poor historical draft results, hoarding of picks and refusal to dole out big FA money, why do you think they're in a really solid position to get a good QB?

They're not giving away the picks for Watson or Wilson. Or the picks to move up for Wilson or Fields. Last year, they appeared headed into week 1 with Stidham and Hoyer until grabbing Cam Newton on the cheap off the scrap heap.
I can absolutely see them going cheap with a Dalton or Carr and finishing 4th place in the AFC East next season.

You consider Carr going cheap? He has better career numbers than Stafford and is younger. Over 4000 yards each of the last 3 years, and not many INTs. Dalton is going cheap, but is competent. There are more competent starters than there are teams. Draft a QB and sign a decent bridge QB like Dalton, Fitzgerald etc. The other option is to gamble on Trubisky or Winston or trade for Wentz.

I think it's comical that teams think drafting somebody solves this position. A team like Miami has Tua, but at this point he's not shown that he's better than a Dalton. I think the odds are as high that a Trubisky or Winston can take the next step (entirely mental) than that Justin Fields becomes a stud QB out of the gate.
 
Joined
Aug 24, 2011
Messages
10,833
Reaction Score
28,324
Of the QBs you mentioned. Carr, Dalton, Fitzgerald, Trubisky, Wentz. They've already hit their ceiling and are pretty far from exceeding that ever again. You bank on Tua or Fields with the hopes they have higher, longer ceilings, obviously.

That's why teams like the Jets hire a Saleh over a retread like Jeff Fisher or Norv Turner.
 

Waquoit

Mr. Positive
Joined
Aug 24, 2011
Messages
32,184
Reaction Score
82,216
I'll tell you who Brady got paid: His OC's. Weis and O'Brien made bank thanks to him. McDaniels got his shot, blew it. And I can't see him getting another HC job after his one year without Brady.
 
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
33,488
Reaction Score
96,161
I'll tell you who Brady got paid: His OC's. Weis and O'Brien made bank thanks to him. McDaniels got his shot, blew it. And I can't see him getting another HC job after his one year without Brady.

Belichick got them paid and Tom assisted. The brains and the GOAT. Don't forget the Lions little fatty coach who Bill made millions for, not Tom. Also remember according to Pats fans they never had good players anywhere so obviously besides Toms ability as the GOAT the coach had to assemble and put in position to win with crappy players. LOL. Nothing Tom did this year takes away from Belichick unless that's what you want to see.
 

HuskyHawk

The triumphant return of the Blues Brothers.
Joined
Sep 12, 2011
Messages
31,862
Reaction Score
81,489
Of the QBs you mentioned. Carr, Dalton, Fitzgerald, Trubisky, Wentz. They've already hit their ceiling and are pretty far from exceeding that ever again. You bank on Tua or Fields with the hopes they have higher, longer ceilings, obviously.

That's why teams like the Jets hire a Saleh over a retread like Jeff Fisher or Norv Turner.

My current first choice, if they can get him, is Mariota. He is smart, has legs, can throw on the move and is careful with the ball. Injuries and bad offenses have derailed his career, but he's still young. In a new situation there is no reason he can't be what he was supposed to be when drafted #2. Trade for him and draft Jamie Newman (WF/UGA) who has all the athletic talent needed, but will need a couple of years to learn.
 
Joined
Aug 24, 2011
Messages
10,833
Reaction Score
28,324
Not gonna lie. Seeing Brady hammered on a boat, throwing the Lombardi around.....and having Pats fans view Marcus Mariota as their best case scenario makes me happy.
 

HuskyHawk

The triumphant return of the Blues Brothers.
Joined
Sep 12, 2011
Messages
31,862
Reaction Score
81,489
Not gonna lie. Seeing Brady hammered on a boat, throwing the Lombardi around.....and having Pats fans view Marcus Mariota as their best case scenario makes me happy.

Until you realize that Mariota's early career stats look a lot like Drew Brees' from San Diego. The Saints came out ok with that signing.

It's simple math. Watson costs too much in trade. Wentz costs too much against the cap and has his own problems. There is no top 10 QB available, and drafting a QB (as Jets fans know well) is like buying a scratch ticket. There is a lot more value in seeing if some crappy team and system ruined their high draft pick QB. It's why the Jets should probably keep Darnold and see what the new staff can do with him rather than buying another scratch ticket. Why the Giants should stay with Jones and upgrade the roster elsewhere.

The smart move it to get two chances. Sign a reclamation project to a fairly cheap contract, and draft a QB outside the first round. So that's Mariota (former #2), Trubisky (former #3), Winston (former #1) as the value options. Low cost, high potential upside.
 

Online statistics

Members online
840
Guests online
4,326
Total visitors
5,166

Forum statistics

Threads
155,787
Messages
4,031,635
Members
9,865
Latest member
Sad Tiger


Top Bottom