#11 Clemson vs #6 Notre Dame - 3/04/21

[Vowelguy]

ND is at 15 next year right? They lose the grad transfer and the walk on but add Citron and Dodson?

 

[DefenseBB]

Miles is good. Westbeld is good. Mabrey is decent for what she is.

The rest of the team is just bad.

Vaughn fouled out when a guard just grabbed the ball right out of her hands. Brunelle fouled out on 5 of the silliest fouls you'll ever seen. Walker blew a wide open fast break layup. Peoples plays hard but has no offense besides post-ups.

When the going got tough, time after time ND folded down the stretch of games this year.

Citron joining next year will bring ND up to 4 good players. Maybe that will help turn the tide. Plus maybe Marshall is good and Dodson is probably better than Vaughn at least.

ND better hope it can turn it around with who is signed now. Because I can't imagine elite recruits wanting to join this soft team that finds a way to lose.

Westbeld and Miles are very very good. I am not sold on Mabry as she takes too many ill advised shots and thinks she’s better than she is. Will she accept being a role player as really needed next year? I don’t see that happening.
I also think that Niele made a huge mistake dumping Cunningham for Washington especially considering how bad Ivey is as a game coach. The turnovers were what killed the Irish all year but give the team to Miles and that should improve. It really is mind boggling how ND is now mirroring a “Holly Tennessee” team, with McDonald’s All-Americans and underachieving. Sorry my fine Irish colleague, very sorry.

 

[Orangutan]

ND is at 15 next year right? They lose the grad transfer and the walk on but add Citron and Dodson?

I don't think Vaughn has definitively stated her plans yet.

Though there were some comments (can't find them at the moment) that led me to believe that she was leaning towards moving on.

 

[Orangutan]

Westbeld and Miles are very very good. I am not sold on Mabry as she takes too many ill advised shots and thinks she’s better than she is. Will she accept being a role player as really needed next year? I don’t see that happening.
I also think that Niele made a huge mistake dumping Cunningham for Washington especially considering how bad Ivey is as a game coach. The turnovers were what killed the Irish all year but give the team to Miles and that should improve. It really is mind boggling how ND is now mirroring a “Holly Tennessee” team, with McDonald’s All-Americans and underachieving. Sorry my fine Irish colleague, very sorry.

Holly's teams were never this bad, tbh.

 

[Vowelguy]

It really is mind boggling how ND is now mirroring a “Holly Tennessee” team, with McDonald’s All-Americans and underachieving.

Think you may be overstating. Remember this was a bad team last year even with McGraw.

 

[triaddukefan]

I am really bummed you couldn’t go to give us the Mabry family take on the situation

I'm sure there was some colorful language involved. Add in the fact of an almost empty arena.. I'm sure he was quite audible

 

[rvwsleep]

A side note to the ND game.
Baba Ghanouj, a poster on the ND forum, McGraw's Bench, ran a quiz each game.
This being the last game for ND before the NCAA's, the quiz ended with today's game.
Who was the winner of the quiz you ask ?

Bench Baffler ACC Championship Results

ndnation.com

How did a non ND fan win a ND quiz ?
It's not because I know more about ND women's basketball. Clearly, I don't.
It could be random probability. But that answer seems unsatisfying.
Imo, it was a lack of cognitive bias.
My choices were made without a desired outcome in mind (Other than wanting to pick the correct choice, of course). I contend that it was the advantage that enabled me to win the contest. Now all I have to do is contact Dawn to see where I can have a banner made.

 

[Plebe]

What's that you say? Notre Dame lost to CLEMSON ... AGAIN?

 

[donalddoowop]

Hey Plebe, Antonelli said during the game that ND should be in the big tournament because they do not have a bad loss. They had more than one and they had one tonight. I just wondered what you thought when you heard that, being such a big fan of theirs.

 

[donalddoowop]

I thought ND has only one guard, Citron, due next season, seeing how Miles is already there. Who else is coming?

 

[Plebe]

Hey Plebe, Antonelli said during the game that ND should be in the big tournament because they do not have a bad loss. They had more than one and they had one tonight. I just wondered what you thought when you heard that, being such a big fan of theirs.

Meh, par for the course. She's always stumping for whatever loser team she's calling.

 

[Wbbfan1]

Notre Dame has to get some quality players from the Transfer Portal if they want to reduce how long it takes them to get back to Elite Status.

 

[cancontent]

Notre Dame is going to be crazy good next season. They just have to learn from this season and move on. But the talent that they have coming and the talent that they have now, plus the coaching. They will be a force pretty soon.

Guard play improved with Miles enrolling early. As much as Mabry thought (thinks) she's a fit at PG, she's much better as a SG.

 

[DefenseBB]

As noted elsewhere, ND has "roster issue" of 15 payers for next year. Vaughn is unknow if she will return. I suspect the that the 3rd Hayes sister who last week opted out of the season due to Covid (and lack of playing time ) will leave the program. So how much room is available for any type of player is subject for debate unless more transfer themselves.

 

[donalddoowop]

Guard play improved with Miles enrolling early. As much as Mabry thought (thinks) she's a fit at PG, she's much better as a SG.

I read that she left Virginia Tech because she wanted to be a point guard. Tech's coach said no way she would be a point guard there. For whatever reason, Brunelle has been reduced to a so-so player. Maybe next season she will blossom. Also, there is no sound reason ND should get an invite to the big tourney. Some Mid Majors probably deserve an invite more than they do, imo.

 

[MSSportsGuy]

The fall of ND has been very quick considering their program had a lot of success and some pedigree, in addition to being an excellent school. I still maintain something bigger was going on in 19-20 that we will never know about to cause such dysfunction and for McGraw to decide to hang it up. Ivey can get the program back but it will take time. There is a lot of name recognition on the roster but a lot of holes as well. They may still be a year away from being back in the conference race.

 

[Vowelguy]

As noted elsewhere, ND has "roster issue" of 15 payers for next year. Vaughn is unknow if she will return. I suspect the that the 3rd Hayes sister who last week opted out of the season due to Covid (and lack of playing time ) will leave the program. So how much room is available for any type of player is subject for debate unless more transfer themselves.

Then again, "15" will not be the limit in 21-22....

 

[oldude]

A few months back I suggested that ND WBB was at a critical point. After MM’s retirement, they could end up in one of two ways. Niele Ivy could rebuild the program, or WBB could go the way of MBB at ND, falling to a middle of the pack ACC team that no one particularly fears any longer.

By any stretch of the imagination, 10-10 and missing the Big Dance is a disappointment for the Irish. That will remove ND from the list of most top recruits in 2022, 2023, etc. It’s not quite over yet for ND WBB, but the fat lady is warming up her vocal chords in the wings.

 

[Vowelguy]

A few months back I suggested that ND WBB was at a critical point. After MM’s retirement, they could end up in one of two ways. Niele Ivy could rebuild the program, or WBB could go the way of MBB at ND, falling to a middle of the pack ACC team that no one particularly fears any longer.

By any stretch of the imagination, 10-10 and missing the Big Dance is a disappointment for the Irish. That will remove ND from the list of most top recruits in 2022, 2023, etc. It’s not quite over yet for ND WBB, but the fat lady is warming up her vocal chords in the wings.

Dunno, think that's a bit hasty.

They benefit from the pandemic and coaching change to say "it was crazy times" and can pitch that recruits can have an impact from day one and be the player to lead them back to glory. Now if they struggle for a couple more years ....

With some non-conference wins they probably would've made the tournament this year, so I'm sure they will next year and can start the rebuild.

 

[donalddoowop]

Dunno, think that's a bit hasty.

They benefit from the pandemic and coaching change to say "it was crazy times" and can pitch that recruits can have an impact from day one and be the player to lead them back to glory. Now if they struggle for a couple more years ....

With some non-conference wins they probably would've made the tournament this year, so I'm sure they will next year and can start the rebuild.

Your last sentence, couldn't that be said of a number of teams this season?

 

[oldude]

Dunno, think that's a bit hasty.

They benefit from the pandemic and coaching change to say "it was crazy times" and can pitch that recruits can have an impact from day one and be the player to lead them back to glory. Now if they struggle for a couple more years ....

With some non-conference wins they probably would've made the tournament this year, so I'm sure they will next year and can start the rebuild.

Maybe so. A number of ND fans were really bummed when they lost Clark to Iowa last year. That’s how it starts. Lose 1 or 2 key recruits every year or so, and eventually you become a secondary choice.

There is also the question of Niele Ivey’s HC ability. There is no doubt she was a great recruiter and assistant coach. But she still has to prove herself as a HC, and that too may give recruits pause.

 

[npignatjr]

Notre Dame is going to be crazy good next season. They just have to learn from this season and move on. But the talent that they have coming and the talent that they have now, plus the coaching. They will be a force pretty soon.

A coach with no head coaching resume, the verdict for 10-10 season tells you the coach will be good, based on what?

 

[cancontent]

I read that she left Virginia Tech because she wanted to be a point guard. Tech's coach said no way she would be a point guard there. For whatever reason, Burnell has been reduced to a so-so player. Maybe next season she will blossom. Also, there is no sound reason ND should get an invite to the big tourney. Some Mid Majors probably deserve an invite more than they do, imo.

Re Mabrey - that is correct from what I recall last year when she put her name into the portal. Most suspect she saw the writing on the wall with Amore coming in. What happens next season will be interesting, especially with Citron coming in. Watched her with Miles on the U16 USA squad in 2019. Enjoyed her game, until they blasted the Canadian team ?

Brunelle is a mystery this year, but I believe she's been dealing with injuries. It doesn't fully explain things at the same time however. I'd defer to our ND expert @dillon to provide insight there.

Regarding the tourney, I'd be surprised if they did make the round of 64. I don't see it happening but I am not a bracketologist like others in this forum. I'm going off of gut feeling on my opinion.

 

[cancontent]

Dunno, think that's a bit hasty.

They benefit from the pandemic and coaching change to say "it was crazy times" and can pitch that recruits can have an impact from day one and be the player to lead them back to glory. Now if they struggle for a couple more years ....

With some non-conference wins they probably would've made the tournament this year, so I'm sure they will next year and can start the rebuild.

And in fairness, the team dynamics have changed with Miles joining the team. Add in Citron with that group next season and I think the offense will be more effective. By how much, who knows but it's too soon to say they're going to drop off in the ACC.

 

[oldude]

Re Mabrey - that is correct from what I recall last year when she put her name into the portal. Most suspect she saw the writing on the wall with Amore coming in. What happens next season will be interesting, especially with Citron coming in. Watched her with Miles on the U16 USA squad in 2019. Enjoyed her game, until they blasted the Canadian team ?

Brunelle is a mystery this year, but I believe she's been dealing with injuries. It doesn't fully explain things at the same time however. I'd defer to our ND expert @dillon to provide insight there.

Regarding the tourney, I'd be surprised if they did make the round of 64. I don't see it happening but I am not a bracketologist like others in this forum. I'm going off of gut feeling on my opinion.

IMO, SB is the victim of inflated expectations as a result of her previous designation as the #1 HS player in her class. She is a nice player, with a solid game, but she doesn’t appear to be a player who can dominate at the college level.