UConn fans should stop pretending we have a shot at the Big 12

[1husky]

If only they would turn it over to message board posters with sales experience UConn wouldn't be entering their third AAC season.

Or, athletic directors who are rock stars.

 

[junglehusky]

Translation: The only reason the Big 12 should expand is for long term sustainability. The only two schools that may provide that is BYU and UConn. The lone problem: geography.

Again, I just don't see how/why the Big12 would add from Cincy, Memphis, Houston, UCF, USF. Before that happens, Oklahoma will bolt.

By the way.... Oklahoma will be the one pushing for (2 of) those schools.

 

[The Funster]

Big 12 would be smart to go all in and move to 16. UCF, USF, Cincy, Memphis, UConn, BYU.

BOOM

 

[whaler11]

Big 12 would be smart to go all in and move to 16. UCF, USF, Cincy, Memphis, UConn, BYU.

BOOM

Yes I'm sure the media partners want to go from paying that group about $15 million to $150 million annually. It would also excite them to take traditional rivals off their football schedules and replace them with half an AAC schedule.

 

[djct1999]

Can someone explain to me how adding a school like Memphis would really help Oklahoma in recruiting? To me, this is one of the most overstated reasons for adding a specific school. It would take years for Memphis to have any impact on OU and by then, the Big12 will already be extinct. OU sells itself to recruits and beating Memphis 72-0 at the Liberty Bowl(or wherever they play) isn't going to make one bit of difference. The key to conference stability is obtaining a network, which in turn relies on tv sets. Thats it. If any of the above schools mentioned would marginally benefit the Big12, another round of expansion would already have been announced. This is all smoke. OU doesn't want any part of adding two schools from that list, they are stirring up s%@t so they can parachute out. GOR be damned.

(For what its worth, I can argue a similar argument in regards to Kansas to the B1G. Does Kansas really bring more value to the B1G than UConn? If we disregard AAU status which UConn can obtain, the answer is a resounding NO. )

I fully understand that after getting kicked in the nuts so many times that this argument against UConn becomes reflexive. Aside from that, if you look at things objectively you quickly realize that UConn offers more than any other G5 school and more than most P5 schools. Time helps UConn. Time allows people to make rational choices. Adding Memphis or Cincy or UCF or USF or HOU or anyone not named BYU or UConn is impulsive and irrational. Truth is, if you take an undefeated FSU out of the ACC and replace with a 1 or 2 loss FSU, the Big12 in most years will get their team in over the title game winner from the atlantic coast. The outlier in all of this is just that: an undefeated FSU. Any other scenario and the ACC and its average football at best gets shut out.

 

[Dooley]

Can someone explain to me how adding a school like Memphis would really help Oklahoma in recruiting? To me, this is one of the most overstated reasons for adding a specific school. It would take years for Memphis to have any impact on OU and by then, the Big12 will already be extinct. OU sells itself to recruits and beating Memphis 72-0 at the Liberty Bowl(or wherever they play) isn't going to make one bit of difference. The key to conference stability is obtaining a network, which in turn relies on tv sets. Thats it. If any of the above schools mentioned would marginally benefit the Big12, another round of expansion would already have been announced. This is all smoke. OU doesn't want any part of adding two schools from that list, they are stirring up s%@t so they can parachute out. GOR be damned.

(For what its worth, I can argue a similar argument in regards to Kansas to the B1G. Does Kansas really bring more value to the B1G than UConn? If we disregard AAU status which UConn can obtain, the answer is a resounding NO. )

I fully understand that after getting kicked in the nuts so many times that this argument against UConn becomes reflexive. Aside from that, if you look at things objectively you quickly realize that UConn offers more than any other G5 school and more than most P5 schools. Time helps UConn. Time allows people to make rational choices. Adding Memphis or Cincy or UCF or USF or HOU or anyone not named BYU or UConn is impulsive and irrational. Truth is, if you take an undefeated FSU out of the ACC and replace with a 1 or 2 loss FSU, the Big12 in most years will get their team in over the title game winner from the atlantic coast. The outlier in all of this is just that: an undefeated FSU. Any other scenario and the ACC and its average football at best gets shut out.

Thank you. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills anytime somebody posts something to the affect of "Memphis adds football recruiting to the B12". Other than being located in TN, Memphis offers nothing of the sort. By that metric, why not invite Middle Tennessee State? They are located in TN and have a 551-410 all-time football record (compared with Memphis' 455-504 all-time football record). Our all-time football record of 502-541 doesn't look so bad, all of a sudden! If football recruiting is the sole factor in B12 expansion, then the only candidates should be UCF/USF/Cincinnati/Houston. If they want to stoop into the next lower level, why not look at SMU/Tulsa/ECU or even SDSU/Fresno St??

Because I'm tired of debating whether or not Memphis is a realistic candidate to be a power conference member, let's look at their resume...

Football:
Pros - located in Tennessee; play in a stadium that seats over 60K
Cons - despite being located in such a fertile football recruiting territory, post an all-time football record of 455-504; have never come close to actually selling out its 60K stadium

Basketball:
Pros - play in a nice FedEx Forum arena; made it to 1* Final Four
Cons - a lot of their program's success has been vacated due to improper cheating (*2 Final Four appearances have been vacated)

Academics:
Pros - 73.2% acceptance rate means that if any 4 nitwits applied, 3 would get in!
Cons - their ranking is listed as "RNP"...I have no idea what "RNP" stands for ("Reading Not Prequired"? "Ranking Near Poop"? "Really Not Post-Graduate"??); makes Louisville look like a Kentucky Ivy

Brand:
Pros - Tigers are scary, especially when they're mauling their handlers during a Vegas act; Memphis provided some cool backdrop shots to the shooting of the movie "The Firm"
Cons - ask 100 college fans "what school has a tiger for a mascot?" and 100/100 will answer "LSU"; no movie set has ever returned to Memphis after "The Firm" because, eh, we are talking about Memphis

Sugar Daddys:
Pro - I guess the FedEx dude has offered a pittance package to the B12 to take pity and invite his Memphis Tigers (?)
Con - FedEx dude should put some money into the school's $217M endowment (about half of UConn's low amount that is argued against us!); unless he is willing to give the school $1.5B like the state of CT just did, his private money pales in comparison with full state support

Again, if football recruiting territory is the only metric being used by the B12 in expansion, then the following schools should have an easy leg up over Memphis:

UCF
USF
Cincinnati
Houston
SMU
Tulsa
SDSU
Fresno St
Temple!

That all said, Memphis will probably get into the B12 because the metrics for evaluating/inviting new members have grown increasingly short-sided and dumb over the years (anything to justify obeying CR Rule #1 and not inviting UConn!). And like I've said before, if Memphis is invited to a power conference before UConn, then some very serious damage control will need to be issued by our leaders to calm the outrage and pitchforks that will surely come from our fanbase (rightfully so!).

 

[DarthGrumpy]

Brand:
Pros - Tigers are scary, especially when they're mauling their handlers during a Vegas act; Memphis provided some cool backdrop shots to the shooting of the movie "The Firm"
Cons - ask 100 college fans "what school has a tiger for a mascot?" and 100/100 will answer "LSU"; no movie set has ever returned to Memphis after "The Firm" because, eh, we are talking about Memphis

Not 100%, afterall, there's that so-so football school in Alabama that also uses Tiger nickname. Though they mascot is an Eagle. Never understood that one. But, I know their fans are easily offended and may resort to violence.

 

[Dooley]

Not 100%, afterall, there's that so-so football school in Alabama that also uses Tiger nickname. Though they mascot is an Eagle. Never understood that one. But, I know their fans are easily offended and may resort to violence.

LOL - yup, I typed that one up too quick without giving it any thought. Maybe the CON should read that 100% will NOT answer "Memphis". Yeah, LSU, Auburn (sorry Auburn fans!) and Missouri (sorry Mizzou fans!) dominate the market on Tigers.

 

[CL82]

Princeton.

 

[Dooley]

Princeton.

Honestly, more people would probably say Princeton than Memphis.

 

[IMind]

The geography argument is silly. It's not like by adding Memphis and Cinci all of a sudden they can fly west and then take a bus everywhere..

If "geography" were the rational used and you wanted to add travel partners for WVU.. UConn and Cinci are the only two that are "close" to Morgantown. UConn is closer than Memphis or UCF or whatever..

Morgantown is just a bitch to get to...

I also don't understand why BYU is this great geographic fit. They're almost as far away from Dallas, TX as UConn is.

That being said even my "logic" is garbage because once you get outside of a few hours distance between campus you're travelling by air anyway.

If geography had ANYTHING at all to do with it they'd just at Houston and Rice and say "Welcome back to the SWC" and call it a day.

---

There is real no great add for the B12. They did miss the boat with Louisville... and should have just added Louisville and Cinci when they added WVU.

There choices are add some geographic outliers that probably move the needle some in terms of revenue: UConn and BYU.

Add a couple of schools that might be closer, but still really don't help out that much: Memphis and Cinci... and travel STILL sucks.

Try to beat a GOR. (Which they might not be in a hurry to do because it would invalidate their GOR)

If I were in the B12 shoes? I'd add UConn and UCF. New York/Northeast market and Florida recruiting.

Which is why they're staying at 10 until someone or something forces them too. (NCAA/Economics)

 

[1husky]

Can someone explain to me how adding a school like Memphis would really help Oklahoma in recruiting? To me, this is one of the most overstated reasons for adding a specific school. It would take years for Memphis to have any impact on OU and by then, the Big12 will already be extinct. OU sells itself to recruits and beating Memphis 72-0 at the Liberty Bowl(or wherever they play) isn't going to make one bit of difference. The key to conference stability is obtaining a network, which in turn relies on tv sets. Thats it. If any of the above schools mentioned would marginally benefit the Big12, another round of expansion would already have been announced. This is all smoke. OU doesn't want any part of adding two schools from that list, they are stirring up s%@t so they can parachute out. GOR be damned.

(For what its worth, I can argue a similar argument in regards to Kansas to the B1G. Does Kansas really bring more value to the B1G than UConn? If we disregard AAU status which UConn can obtain, the answer is a resounding NO. )

I fully understand that after getting kicked in the nuts so many times that this argument against UConn becomes reflexive. Aside from that, if you look at things objectively you quickly realize that UConn offers more than any other G5 school and more than most P5 schools. Time helps UConn. Time allows people to make rational choices. Adding Memphis or Cincy or UCF or USF or HOU or anyone not named BYU or UConn is impulsive and irrational. Truth is, if you take an undefeated FSU out of the ACC and replace with a 1 or 2 loss FSU, the Big12 in most years will get their team in over the title game winner from the atlantic coast. The outlier in all of this is just that: an undefeated FSU. Any other scenario and the ACC and its average football at best gets shut out.

No, Memphis is a lock. There is NO WAY Warde can be held accountable if we get beat out for the final spot in the P5 by a POWERHOUSE like Memphis.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

I would have thought the Big 10 or ACC would have added UConn years ago, but they clearly are not interested. They could each have UConn any time they wanted. They are not interested. The only P5 league for which the decision factors have changed is the Big 12. The Big 12 wants 2 more teams for both markets and to get its numbers up. BYU and UConn are far and away the two best prospects left, although neither is geographically ideal. BYU has a huge national following and is strong in both major sports. UConn is excellent in hoops, has an untouched market of 3.6MM that is wealthy, could arguably compete throughout New England and into New York. And New York is still available for a P5 league, since the ACC and Big 10 have not exactly locked it down with Syracuse and Rutgers.

Cincinnati is solid as a school and program and a bit better geographically than BYU and UConn, and then there is a huge drop. Boise should probably be next on the list with great football and decent basketball plus a decent metro with no competition and proximity to BYU.

Memphis is a community college that has 6 P5 schools within 5 hour drives. UCF splits its market with 3 powerhouse programs. Houston is probably #3 or #4 in its market when it is winning 10+ games in football, and not even on the radar when it is .500 or worse..

UConn, Cincinnati, BYU, and Boise are the only candidates that are even 1 or 2 in their own markets in terms of fan interest.

 

[junglehusky]

Can someone explain to me how adding a school like Memphis would really help Oklahoma in recruiting? To me, this is one of the most overstated reasons for adding a specific school. It would take years for Memphis to have any impact on OU and by then, the Big12 will already be extinct. OU sells itself to recruits and beating Memphis 72-0 at the Liberty Bowl(or wherever they play) isn't going to make one bit of difference. The key to conference stability is obtaining a network, which in turn relies on tv sets. Thats it. If any of the above schools mentioned would marginally benefit the Big12, another round of expansion would already have been announced. This is all smoke. OU doesn't want any part of adding two schools from that list, they are stirring up s%@t so they can parachute out. GOR be damned.

(For what its worth, I can argue a similar argument in regards to Kansas to the B1G. Does Kansas really bring more value to the B1G than UConn? If we disregard AAU status which UConn can obtain, the answer is a resounding NO. )

I fully understand that after getting kicked in the nuts so many times that this argument against UConn becomes reflexive. Aside from that, if you look at things objectively you quickly realize that UConn offers more than any other G5 school and more than most P5 schools. Time helps UConn. Time allows people to make rational choices. Adding Memphis or Cincy or UCF or USF or HOU or anyone not named BYU or UConn is impulsive and irrational. Truth is, if you take an undefeated FSU out of the ACC and replace with a 1 or 2 loss FSU, the Big12 in most years will get their team in over the title game winner from the atlantic coast. The outlier in all of this is just that: an undefeated FSU. Any other scenario and the ACC and its average football at best gets shut out.

I think you are overestimating the rationality of the BXII. I think they will either do nothing, or make an impulsive knee jerk addition.

By the way, Kansas is a huge brand name, UConn is getting close to where they are but in the B1G's eyes they are probably a bball equivalent of Nebraska. If Kansas, OU and one other football brand can head to the B1G, UConn will make a case for being the 4th addition. 2bb + 2fb.

 

[junglehusky]

I would have thought the Big 10 or ACC would have added UConn years ago, but they clearly are not interested. They could each have UConn any time they wanted. They are not interested.

Why does that "logic" apply to those two conferences and not the B12? The Big East was interested in Temple, then they kicked them out and were not interested, and then they were interested again. Things change (sometimes).

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Why does that "logic" apply to those two conferences and not the B12? The Big East was interested in Temple, then they kicked them out and were not interested, and then they were interested again. Things change (sometimes).

Things change when something changes them. The decision factors for the ACC and Big 10 are the same now as they were 4 years ago. UConn got passed over for Rutgers, Maryland, Pitt, Syracuse and Louisville. Not exactly a murderers row of athletic programs. At any point during the last 4 years, the ACC or Big 10 could have added UConn. They didn't. What is going to change going forward? A new Big 10 ESPN TV deal? A drop in the bucket for the overall economics for that league. If they thought they needed UConn, they would have added us already.

Nothing has or will change on the ACC side short of an ACC Network, which seems increasingly unlikely. Ironically, as often happens on this board, we rejoice too much in the pain of others when the event causing that pain, the likely mothballing of the ACCN, is also the final nail in UConn's coffin with that league.

Which brings us to the Big 12. They have announced they are considering expansion and have hired a committee. That is the gift horse, and you are looking for its mouth. This is likely the last hope for UConn or anyone else to get to a P5, and you can expect every school to pull out all the stops if this gets any momentum. My fear is that this expansion threat is just to get Texas to drop the LHN, and once the LHN is gone, Oklahoma decides it doesn't need the Big 12 to expand.

 

[junglehusky]

If the Big 12 adds two it will not be the last stop. GORs aren't forever.

 

[CallMeBruce]

The ACC Network is going to happen, but you can believe ESPN really doesn't want to do it.

 

[Fishy]

The ACC Network is going to happen, but you can believe ESPN really doesn't want to do it.

Then why would it happen?

 

[CallMeBruce]

Then why would it happen?

Because eventually their member schools are going to start losing a lot of money relative to what they'd be making with a network, and some of those members will leave the league. There's no way that ESPN can afford to tell the ACC that they won't pay for an ACCN while the Big 12 is actively seeking new membership. FOX is throwing stupid money around to really try to take ESPN's legs out from under them, and this is a great opportunity.

 

[Fishy]

Because eventually their member schools are going to start losing a lot of money relative to what they'd be making with a network, and some of those members will leave the league. There's no way that ESPN can afford to tell the ACC that they won't pay for an ACCN while the Big 12 is actively seeking new membership. FOX is throwing stupid money around to really try to take ESPN's legs out from under them, and this is a great opportunity.

But the problem with ESPN starting an ACC Network is that it probably won't make much money - which is why they're reticent to start one.

If this was a venture that was going to start piling up money for its partners, don't you think ESPN would have already committed to it?

And if it came to the point where the ACC was to start losing members, ESPN can help guide some of that value to the SEC or whatever else they control at that point and just write down the ACC. It's not like they haven't done this before...

 

[billybud]

I think that ESPN is in sort of a "pause mode" until the Big Ten negotiations get finalized.

I don't expect much news re the ACC until the scheduled five year "look in" date of 2017. That's when the shoe will have to drop...go or no go on ACC channel.

Whatever happens...the SEC and Big Ten will be light years ahead of the other conferences in revenue per team. That will not change....

 

[nelsonmuntz]

But the problem with ESPN starting an ACC Network is that it probably won't make much money - which is why they're reticent to start one.

If this was a venture that was going to start piling up money for its partners, don't you think ESPN would have already committed to it?

And if it came to the point where the ACC was to start losing members, ESPN can help guide some of that value to the SEC or whatever else they control at that point and just write down the ACC. It's not like they haven't done this before...

ESPN had a chance to fillet the ACC when it was locked into a 15 year, $12MM/team a year deal, and ESPN renegotiated the contract and boosted the payouts, in the process paying a crapload of money to shred the Big East when they probably could have held that league together for half or less of what they ended up paying for all the schools but UConn, Cincinnati and USF to leave.

ESPN has only 2 leagues committed to the worldwide leader, the SEC and ACC. It will not let either one of them fail. If ESPN has to sprinkle a few million more a year on the ACC to hold it together, ESPN will sprinkle.

 

[1husky]

I think you are overestimating the rationality of the BXII. I think they will either do nothing, or make an impulsive knee jerk addition.

If our AD is doing his job then no one should be making any knee jerk additions at this point unless they include UConn. Every AD, President, and League Commissioner should know what we bring, why it's important, how that adds value to their league, and what cool people we are. It seems like 1/2 the people on this board consider UConn's value to be zero. And we're the die hard fans. If that's the case then we are never getting out of the AAC. If any other school in the country had our resume they would instantly be picked up by a P5 conference. It's on our leadership to make it happen.

 

[junglehusky]

If our AD is doing his job then no one should be making any knee jerk additions at this point unless they include UConn. Every AD, President, and League Commissioner should know what we bring, why it's important, how that adds value to their league, and what cool people we are. It seems like 1/2 the people on this board consider UConn's value to be zero. And we're the die hard fans. If that's the case then we are never getting out of the AAC. If any other school in the country had our resume they would instantly be picked up by a P5 conference. It's on our leadership to make it happen.

All it takes is the AD telling other schools & conferences what UConn brings and they will add us, nobody has added us so the AD must not have told them how good we are. Of course - it's so simple!

Who on this board has ever said UConn's value is zero? Not me - I'm in the camp that UConn can make a case to the B1G / ACC.