starting to see a consistent message. hope it resonates

[Marty Jackson]

http://espn.go.com/college-football...power-5-commissioners-no-chance-moving-spring

Especially like the point where Dodd points out that the AAC champ beat the B12 Champ in the Fiesta bowl, and was one of 4 conferences with 2 teams in the Top 15.

Call it however you want. On a level playing field, there isn't as much separation between the AAC and the other conferences as the media wants you to believe.

 

[RatholeMA]

http://espn.go.com/college-football...power-5-commissioners-no-chance-moving-spring

Especially like the point where Dodd points out that the AAC champ beat the B12 Champ in the Fiesta bowl, and was one of 4 conferences with 2 teams in the Top 15.

Call it however you want. On a level playing field, there isn't as much separation between the AAC and the other conferences as the media wants you to believe.

Unfortunately there is no level playing field. The media have little interest in college football outside the P5.

 

[B1GOSU]

I understand what you are saying, but the reality is that even with those football accomplishments, they weren't achieved against the P5 in the regular season. Yes, UCF beat Baylor in a BCS Bowl. But did UCF play a meat grinder schedule against the P5 week in and week out? No. They had a month to prepare for one big game. Anything can happen in that scenario.

It would be more impressive if UCF beat Baylor one week after beating Oklahoma and two weeks after beating Texas.

Had UCF been in a Power 5 Conference, it most likely would not have finished in the Top 15, as it most likely would have lost at least one more game, if not more, when faced with a meat grinder schedule week in and week out.

One only has to look to Utah and TCU to see what happens when a Cinderella team makes it into the P5. The big money comes, but midnight strikes fast in terms of the success.

Likewise, you will most likely see Louisville with a drop off in most sports. Louisville would have finished in third place in the Atlantic Division at best last year. That would translate from almost going to a BCS bowl in the AAC to third place out of seven teams in one division of the ACC.

Louisville has won conference titles in almost all sports it has participated in just within the past few years. The Cardinals will see a huge drop off in titles in the ACC. I'm not saying they can't or won't field decent teams, I'm just saying they will not win as many titles as they have grown accustomed to in the past.

Just in their one year in the AAC, Louisville won these titles:

Men's Cross Country
Men's Soccer
Women's Volleyball
Men's Swimming & Diving
Women's Swimming & Diving
Men's Basketball (Regular Season)
Men's Basketball (Tournament)
Women's Golf
Women's Rowing
Softball
Baseball
Women's Lacrosse (as affiliate of the Big East)

Louisville won 12 conference titles last year. That won't happen in a P5 Conference.

 

[pj]

B1GOSU, what you say may be true. The AAC champion may often be over-rated because an easy schedule does not fully test a weaker team. By the same token, the AAC champion could be the best team in the nation and it won't be invited to the playoffs. It's hard not to believe that AAC teams are the losers, not the beneficiaries, from the current structure of college sports.

 

[Hoophound]

I understand what you are saying, but the reality is that even with those football accomplishments, they weren't achieved against the P5 in the regular season. Yes, UCF beat Baylor in a BCS Bowl. But did UCF play a meat grinder schedule against the P5 week in and week out? No. They had a month to prepare for one big game. Anything can happen in that scenario. It would be more impressive if UCF beat Baylor one week after beating Oklahoma and two weeks after beating Texas. Had UCF been in a Power 5 Conference, it most likely would not have finished in the Top 15, as it most likely would have lost at least one more game, if not more, when faced with a meat grinder schedule week in and week out. One only has to look to Utah and TCU to see what happens when a Cinderella team makes it into the P5. The big money comes, but midnight strikes fast in terms of the success. Likewise, you will most likely see Louisville with a drop off in most sports. Louisville would have finished in third place in the Atlantic Division at best last year. That would translate from almost going to a BCS bowl in the AAC to third place out of seven teams in one division of the ACC. Louisville has won conference titles in almost all sports it has participated in just within the past few years. The Cardinals will see a huge drop off in titles in the ACC. I'm not saying they can't or won't field decent teams, I'm just saying they will not win as many titles as they have grown accustomed to in the past. Just in their one year in the AAC, Louisville won these titles: Men's Cross Country Men's Soccer Women's Volleyball Men's Swimming & Diving Women's Swimming & Diving Men's Basketball (Regular Season) Men's Basketball (Tournament) Women's Golf Women's Rowing Softball Baseball Women's Lacrosse (as affiliate of the Big East) Louisville won 12 conference titles last year. That won't happen in a P5 Conference.

I would argue that UL will kick ass and take names in any conference not called the SEC and they'd be damn good there as well. They are in it to win it and they don't mess around. They take lousy students, they hire great coaches, even ones that are dirty, and they have politicians around them that make sure things like arenas with sweetheart tenancy deals get done. UCF, they are as good as their coach, Utah lost great coaches too. Programs that want to play at a championship level every year need to play the game and pay the costs

 

[Marty Jackson]

I understand what you are saying, but the reality is that even with those football accomplishments, they weren't achieved against the P5 in the regular season. Yes, UCF beat Baylor in a BCS Bowl. But did UCF play a meat grinder schedule against the P5 week in and week out? No. They had a month to prepare for one big game. Anything can happen in that scenario.

It would be more impressive if UCF beat Baylor one week after beating Oklahoma and two weeks after beating Texas.

Had UCF been in a Power 5 Conference, it most likely would not have finished in the Top 15, as it most likely would have lost at least one more game, if not more, when faced with a meat grinder schedule week in and week out.

One only has to look to Utah and TCU to see what happens when a Cinderella team makes it into the P5. The big money comes, but midnight strikes fast in terms of the success.

Likewise, you will most likely see Louisville with a drop off in most sports. Louisville would have finished in third place in the Atlantic Division at best last year. That would translate from almost going to a BCS bowl in the AAC to third place out of seven teams in one division of the ACC.

Louisville has won conference titles in almost all sports it has participated in just within the past few years. The Cardinals will see a huge drop off in titles in the ACC. I'm not saying they can't or won't field decent teams, I'm just saying they will not win as many titles as they have grown accustomed to in the past.

Just in their one year in the AAC, Louisville won these titles:

Men's Cross Country
Men's Soccer
Women's Volleyball
Men's Swimming & Diving
Women's Swimming & Diving
Men's Basketball (Regular Season)
Men's Basketball (Tournament)
Women's Golf
Women's Rowing
Softball
Baseball
Women's Lacrosse (as affiliate of the Big East)

Louisville won 12 conference titles last year. That won't happen in a P5 Conference.

A&M and Missouri were listed as Doa going to the sec. Both have held their own.
UFC had a good team and a top qb prospect. They also had a decent schedule.
Pretty sure Louisville can handle Syracuse, bc, Pitt, wf, duke, and the other acc heavyweightS
Very weak post.

 

[upstater]

I understand what you are saying, but the reality is that even with those football accomplishments, they weren't achieved against the P5 in the regular season. Yes, UCF beat Baylor in a BCS Bowl. But did UCF play a meat grinder schedule against the P5 week in and week out? No. They had a month to prepare for one big game. Anything can happen in that scenario.

It would be more impressive if UCF beat Baylor one week after beating Oklahoma and two weeks after beating Texas.

Had UCF been in a Power 5 Conference, it most likely would not have finished in the Top 15, as it most likely would have lost at least one more game, if not more, when faced with a meat grinder schedule week in and week out.

One only has to look to Utah and TCU to see what happens when a Cinderella team makes it into the P5. The big money comes, but midnight strikes fast in terms of the success.

Likewise, you will most likely see Louisville with a drop off in most sports. Louisville would have finished in third place in the Atlantic Division at best last year. That would translate from almost going to a BCS bowl in the AAC to third place out of seven teams in one division of the ACC.

Louisville has won conference titles in almost all sports it has participated in just within the past few years. The Cardinals will see a huge drop off in titles in the ACC. I'm not saying they can't or won't field decent teams, I'm just saying they will not win as many titles as they have grown accustomed to in the past.

Just in their one year in the AAC, Louisville won these titles:

Men's Cross Country
Men's Soccer
Women's Volleyball
Men's Swimming & Diving
Women's Swimming & Diving
Men's Basketball (Regular Season)
Men's Basketball (Tournament)
Women's Golf
Women's Rowing
Softball
Baseball
Women's Lacrosse (as affiliate of the Big East)

Louisville won 12 conference titles last year. That won't happen in a P5 Conference.

if the P5 were really the meat grinder you say it is, you would expect the teams that left the BE to suffer in that meat grinder.

Instead, Syracuse, BC, and Pitt all improved upon leaving. Only WVa fell off and that coincided with coaching weirdness. If it's such a meat grinder, then why are teams improving when they enter the grinder?

 

[itgoeslike]

Here's Ohio State's Meat Grinder schedule. If you consider that UConn at it lowest point almost (should have) beat Michigan, there is only one legitimate team on OSU's schedule (Wisconsin). UCF beat Penn State at Penn State, Louisville at Louisville, should have beaten USCAR at USCAR, and beat Baylor at what was essentially a home game for Baylor. The meat grinder schedule exists, but only in a P1 or P2 world.
http://www.fbschedules.com/ncaa-12/mid-amer/2012-buffalo-bulls-football-schedule.php
Saturday
Aug. 31
Buffalo Bulls
Ohio Stadium, Columbus, OHWon 40-20---
Saturday
Sept. 7
San Diego State Aztecs
Ohio Stadium, Columbus, OHWon 42-7---
Saturday
Sept. 14
at California Golden Bears
California Memorial Stadium, Berkeley, CAWon 52-34---
Saturday
Sept. 21
Florida A&M Rattlers
Ohio Stadium, Columbus, OHWon 76-0---
Saturday
Sept. 28
Wisconsin Badgers
Ohio Stadium, Columbus, OHWon 31-24---
Saturday
Oct. 5
at Northwestern Wildcats
Ryan Field, Evanston, ILWon 40-30---
Saturday
Oct. 12---Open Date------
Saturday
Oct. 19
Iowa Hawkeyes (HC)
Ohio Stadium, Columbus, OHWon 34-24---
Saturday
Oct. 26
Penn State Nittany Lions
Ohio Stadium, Columbus, OHWon 63-14---
Saturday
Nov. 2
at Purdue Boilermakers
Ross-Ade Stadium, West Lafayette, INWon 56-0---
Saturday
Nov. 9---Open Date------
Saturday
Nov. 16
at Illinois Fighting Illini
Memorial Stadium, Champaign, ILWon 60-35---
Saturday
Nov. 23
Indiana Hoosiers
Ohio Stadium, Columbus, OHWon 42-14---
Saturday
Nov. 30
at Michigan Wolverines
Michigan Stadium, Ann Arbor, MIWon 42-41

 

[HuskyBandDad]

Here's Ohio State's Meat Grinder schedule. If you consider that UConn at it lowest point almost (should have) beat Michigan, there is only one legitimate team on OSU's schedule (Wisconsin). UCF beat Penn State at Penn State, Louisville at Louisville, should have beaten USCAR at USCAR, and beat Baylor at what was essentially a home game for Baylor. The meat grinder schedule exists, but only in a P1 or P2 world.
Saturday
Aug. 31
Buffalo Bulls
Ohio Stadium, Columbus, OHWon 40-20---
Saturday
Sept. 7
San Diego State Aztecs
Ohio Stadium, Columbus, OHWon 42-7---
Saturday
Sept. 14
at California Golden Bears
California Memorial Stadium, Berkeley, CAWon 52-34---
Saturday
Sept. 21
Florida A&M Rattlers
Ohio Stadium, Columbus, OHWon 76-0---
Saturday
Sept. 28
Wisconsin Badgers
Ohio Stadium, Columbus, OHWon 31-24---
Saturday
Oct. 5
at Northwestern Wildcats
Ryan Field, Evanston, ILWon 40-30---
Saturday
Oct. 12---Open Date------
Saturday
Oct. 19
Iowa Hawkeyes (HC)
Ohio Stadium, Columbus, OHWon 34-24---
Saturday
Oct. 26
Penn State Nittany Lions
Ohio Stadium, Columbus, OHWon 63-14---
Saturday
Nov. 2
at Purdue Boilermakers
Ross-Ade Stadium, West Lafayette, INWon 56-0---
Saturday
Nov. 9---Open Date------
Saturday
Nov. 16
at Illinois Fighting Illini
Memorial Stadium, Champaign, ILWon 60-35---
Saturday
Nov. 23
Indiana Hoosiers
Ohio Stadium, Columbus, OHWon 42-14---
Saturday
Nov. 30
at Michigan Wolverines
Michigan Stadium, Ann Arbor, MIWon 42-41

Not a very tough schedule.

 

[B1GOSU]

Better than a glorified Conference USA schedule.

 

[upstater]

Better than a glorified Conference USA schedule.

It is better. But the point remains. The grinder you describe is not a grinder at all. The teams in AAC are just as tough as the teams outside your conference leaders. If this weren't the case, we'd see drastic differences in the records of AAC/old BE teams when they moved to P5 conferences. And UConn's P5 record is similar to its BE record. The BCS bowl record shows the same thing as well.

 

[B1GOSU]

Another way to look at this ---- TV Networks are in business to make money.

The Baylor-UCF Fiesta Bowl ratings were down 11% from the previous year's matchup of Oregon-Kansas State. The TV Networks expect big money teams to play in these big-money games. No team in the AAC can pull off the ratings of a Power 5 matchup.

 

[itgoeslike]

The average P5 schedule is stronger. However the disparity is tempered when you have a conference schedule that features only a couple of tough opponents gets watered down with cupcake OOC opponents. Conversely, a conference like the AAC, which has a handful of decent teams, but no great teams, is forced to seek out high profile OOC games to compensate. It doesn't balance out completely, but it helps close the gap with the bottom ranks of the P5. UCF deserves credit for their victories against Baylor, Penn State, Louisville, etc.

The grinder does exist in the SEC (and to a lesser degree PAC12 and B12) which is why, generally speaking, they feel the need schedule a light OOC schedule. There are a couple exceptions annually and LSU and SCAR often seek out risky OOC match ups. However the Big Ten can't afford a light OOC schedule these days, especially within the context of the new playoff format. The ACC concedes this reality and have actively sought to build up their OOC schedule.

 

[B1GOSU]

The average P5 schedule is stronger. However the disparity is tempered when you have a conference schedule that features only a couple of tough opponents gets watered down with cupcake OOC opponents. Conversely, a conference like the AAC, which has a handful of decent teams, but no great teams, is forced to seek out high profile OOC games to compensate. It doesn't balance out completely, but it helps close the gap with the bottom ranks of the P5. UCF deserves credit for their victories against Baylor, Penn State, Louisville, etc.

The grinder does exist in the SEC (and to a lesser degree PAC12 and B12) which is why, generally speaking, they feel the need schedule a light OOC schedule. There are a couple exceptions annually and LSU and SCAR often seek out risky OOC match ups. However the Big Ten can't afford a light OOC schedule these days, especially within the context of the new playoff format. The ACC concedes this reality and have actively sought to build up their OOC schedule.

So by your argument, the B1G should never add UCONN because it would just further water down a weak conference. Is that what you are saying?

 

[pj]

Another way to look at this ---- TV Networks are in business to make money.

The Baylor-UCF Fiesta Bowl ratings were down 11% from the previous year's matchup of Oregon-Kansas State. The TV Networks expect big money teams to play in these big-money games. No team in the AAC can pull off the ratings of a Power 5 matchup.

The AAU's fan support may increase. The AAC was just formed. UCF was formerly #5 in its home market, but could become to Orlando what Louisville is its home town as the AAC raises its visibility and fan support.

But in any case, it's already a false claim for at least some AAC schools. UConn's 2011 Fiesta Bowl appearance had a 9.0 rating on ESPN, UCF's 2014 appearance got an 8.9. These are pretty typical for New Year's Day bowls on ESPN, http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/20...crease-for-rose-fiesta-bowls-combined/226259/ and http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2012/01/03/rose-bowl-fiesta-bowl-ratings-rise-vs-2011/115179/. Note the Rose Bowl in 2011 got exactly the same ratings as the Fiesta Bowl with UConn. Did the Rose Bowl not feature "big money teams"?

 

[itgoeslike]

So by your argument, the B1G should never add UCONN because it would just further water down a weak conference. Is that what you are saying?

No. I was making the argument that UCF's victory over the Big12 champion deserves reasonable credit. They beat them on the field, which was a de facto home game for Baylor.

With regard to UConn football, if you look at their performance over the past ten years you'll see a program that made great strides. UConn, over time, would hold their own in the Big Ten. The upcoming season(s) will be telling, but I suspect they will be able to compete with Indiana, Illinois, Purdue, Maryland, Rutgers, Northwestern, Minnesota and perhaps Iowa right out of the gate. Tradition is one thing. Winning national championships is another. UConn has proven it knows how to compete when given the opportunity.

 

[B1GOSU]

That may change. The AAC was just formed. UCF was #4 or #5 in its home market, but the AAC is greatly raising its visibility and fan support. UConn's 2011 Fiesta Bowl appearance had a 9.0 rating on ESPN, UCF's 2014 appearance got an 8.9. These are pretty typical for New Year's Day bowls on ESPN, http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/20...crease-for-rose-fiesta-bowls-combined/226259/ and http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2012/01/03/rose-bowl-fiesta-bowl-ratings-rise-vs-2011/115179/. Note the Rose Bowl in 2011 got exactly the same ratings as the Fiesta Bowl with UConn. Did the Rose Bowl not feature "big money teams"?

While the AAC was just formed, it existed for over a decade as Conference USA with UConn replacing Louisville in the lineup. Did Conference USA = ratings the last decade?

 

[itgoeslike]

Another way to look at this ---- TV Networks are in business to make money.

The Baylor-UCF Fiesta Bowl ratings were down 11% from the previous year's matchup of Oregon-Kansas State. The TV Networks expect big money teams to play in these big-money games. No team in the AAC can pull off the ratings of a Power 5 matchup.

That's probably not a great measuring stick. If your point is that a game featuring Baylor (small private) and UCF (new on scene) which don't have a national following still garnered 91% of the previous years rating, yes it's true, and also not surprising. But consider other key bowl game rating that featured P5 teams.

Capital One -18% South Caroline vs. Wisconsin
Cotton -46% Oklahoma State vs. Missouri
Outback -25% Iowa vs. LSU

 

[Adios]

While the AAC was just formed, it existed for over a decade as Conference USA with UConn replacing Louisville in the lineup. Did Conference USA = ratings the last decade?

You know very well that some C-USA teams used to be in "P5" level conferences. You can thank the Metro Conference for all of the B1G's TV sets. Since it was initially their idea.

 

[itgoeslike]

While the AAC was just formed, it existed for over a decade as Conference USA with UConn replacing Louisville in the lineup. Did Conference USA = ratings the last decade?

No. You need to go do some research. UConn was in the Big East as a football member before Louisville arrived from CUSA. The AAC is the former Big East BCS Conference with 3 of its teams remaining (UConn, South Florida and Cincinatti). It's technically not a new conference. Granted there are many new arrivals from Conference USA (+Temple and Navy), but you can't assign that league's performance. top to bottom to the AAC.

 

[B1GOSU]

No. You need to go do some research. UConn was in the Big East as a football member before Louisville arrived from CUSA. The AAC is the former Big East BCS Conference with 3 of its teams remaining (UConn, South Florida and Cincinatti). It's technically not a new conference. Granted there are many new arrivals from Conference USA (+Temple and Navy), but you can't assign that league's performance. top to bottom to the AAC.

Actually, you need to do some research. Every team in the AAC was in CUSA at one time in the past decade except for UCONN and Temple.

 

[Adios]

It's all perception, semantics, etc.

Bottom line, AAC schools are powerful.

 

[B1GOSU]

You know very well that some C-USA teams used to be in "P5" level conferences. You can thank the Metro Conference for all of the B1G's TV sets. Since it was initially their idea.

Yes, I know some of the teams used to be in what is now a P5 conference. However, they were conferences that had to be blown up because they couldn't make it financially. Houston and SMU are left overs from the old Southwest Conference. Temple played Big East football for years. UConn played Big East football in the final phase of football for the conference, as did Cincy and USF, but UConn had traditionally been FCS prior to that, and Cincy and USF were CUSA schools that backfilled into the Big East. Navy is also an old power of yesteryear that will join next season. And we can't forget that Tulane was a former member of the SEC!

All that is left now is for the AAC to add former power independent Army; former SW Conference member Rice; and former what-became-the PAC12 member Idaho. Then the AAC would have every big name school in history that plays FCS football today that is not in the P5.

There are two arguments to be made here and depending on which argument a person makes is how I view the situation.

If the argument is "Should UConn be in a P5 conference?" I will agree 100%.

If the argument is "Should the AAC be a "P6"? Hell no!

 

[itgoeslike]

Actually, you need to do some research. Every team in the AAC was in CUSA at one time in the past decade except for UCONN and Temple.

These are totally different animals. Cincinnati and South Florida haven't been in the CUSA for almost a decade, with Cincinnati winning BCS match ups. Louisville is another great example. The CUSA new comers to the AAC, for the most part, have had the strongest programs in the conference. The AAC's worst teams are among the best former teams of CUSA. These new comers will, for the very first time, experience a level of national TV exposure that will be envied by many on the lower rungs of the P5. That will help build their brands. Having said all this, I'm not sure what we are arguing about. No one is suggesting that Tulane's ratings are going to rival Michigan's. But, getting back to the original contention, UCF deserves more credit than they were given. The disparity between an AAC schedule which has two or three tough OOC opponents, away, is worse, but not by leaps a bounds, than a lesser P5 conference schedule that has cupcakes across the board on its OOC schedule. I think we are agreement that UCF could have 1 (maybe 2) more losses playing a B1G schedule However, a 10-2 or 9-3 Big Ten team would have still garnered a top 20 ranking. They deserved the ranking they got.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

I understand what you are saying, but the reality is that even with those football accomplishments, they weren't achieved against the P5 in the regular season. Yes, UCF beat Baylor in a BCS Bowl. But did UCF play a meat grinder schedule against the P5 week in and week out? No. They had a month to prepare for one big game. Anything can happen in that scenario.

It would be more impressive if UCF beat Baylor one week after beating Oklahoma and two weeks after beating Texas.

Had UCF been in a Power 5 Conference, it most likely would not have finished in the Top 15, as it most likely would have lost at least one more game, if not more, when faced with a meat grinder schedule week in and week out.

One only has to look to Utah and TCU to see what happens when a Cinderella team makes it into the P5. The big money comes, but midnight strikes fast in terms of the success.

Likewise, you will most likely see Louisville with a drop off in most sports. Louisville would have finished in third place in the Atlantic Division at best last year. That would translate from almost going to a BCS bowl in the AAC to third place out of seven teams in one division of the ACC.

Louisville has won conference titles in almost all sports it has participated in just within the past few years. The Cardinals will see a huge drop off in titles in the ACC. I'm not saying they can't or won't field decent teams, I'm just saying they will not win as many titles as they have grown accustomed to in the past.

Just in their one year in the AAC, Louisville won these titles:

Men's Cross Country
Men's Soccer
Women's Volleyball
Men's Swimming & Diving
Women's Swimming & Diving
Men's Basketball (Regular Season)
Men's Basketball (Tournament)
Women's Golf
Women's Rowing
Softball
Baseball
Women's Lacrosse (as affiliate of the Big East)

Louisville won 12 conference titles last year. That won't happen in a P5 Conference.

So Louisville is going to finish 3rd in the ACC Atlantic, but will also probably be the 3rd best team overall in a conference that had a national champion last year that is also preseason favorite to win it all this year. So your argument is that Louisville is not better than the national champion, therefore the non-P5 schools all suck. Got it.

You are also saying is that since the other schools are not in the P5, they and the athletes at those schools should not be allowed to even compete, simply because those schools are not part of an arbitrary club.

Did I miss anything?