something that's not utterly amazing

[bags27]

All 4 #1 seeds just beat the #9 seeds.

 

[chrissaran]

There have been more upsets this year of high seeds than I can remember in recent memory. Louisville and Maryland and Miami and Florida. The playing field is becoming more level. We'll see if anyone can take down UConn. Then you would have the story of the year in women's college basketball.

 

[cockhrnleghrn]

There have been more upsets this year of high seeds than I can remember in recent memory. Louisville and Maryland and Miami and Florida. The playing field is becoming more level. We'll see if anyone can take down UConn. Then you would have the story of the year in women's college basketball.

It's unlikely, but stranger things have happened. For the growth of the sport, more competitive games and a deeper talent pool should help attendance and viewership.

 

[UcMiami]

And a lot of very competitive games throughout the brackets with high seeds struggling to win on their own court. You can look at the four 1 seeds and say they have distanced themselves, but the rest of the field has generally been very competitive. MD certainly looked like the strongest 2 seed, and got beaten, ASU looked like a weak two seed (thought UCLA was better) and was smacked.
first round:
two 5 seeds bow to 12 seeds
two 7 seeds bow to 10 seeds
and all four 8 seeds lose to 9 seeds
Second round:
two 2 seeds bow to 7 seeds
one 3 seed bows to 6 seed
two 4 seeds bow to 5 seeds (one on the 5 seeds home court.)
And a 4 seed beat a 12 seed by one point, two 3 seeds struggled to beat 6 seeds and even a 1 seed had to sweat a bit on their home court.

 

[JordyG]

It's unlikely, but stranger things have happened. For the growth of the sport, more competitive games and a deeper talent pool should help attendance and viewership.

For me I've never understood the idea that more competitive games and/or a deeper talent pool helps attendance. What moved WCBB and WBB in general before are rivalries that capture the country's attention. That's what happened in pro basketball as well with LA and Boston. This is what generates excitement. A rivalry with two teams from different parts of the country with different approaches to the sport. Pittsburgh and Dallas in football. This is what WCBB needs.

 

[cockhrnleghrn]

For me I've never understood the idea that more competitive games and/or a deeper talent pool helps attendance. What moved WCBB and WBB in general before are rivalries that capture the country's attention. That's what happened in pro basketball as well with LA and Boston. This is what generates excitement. A rivalry with two teams from different parts of the country with different approaches to the sport. Pittsburgh and Dallas in football. This is what WCBB needs.

South Carolina and UCONN? UCONN/ND?

 

[EricLA]

South Carolina and UCONN? UCONN/ND?

Right now I'd say it's more UCONN vs. ND. I saw a stat during the UCONN game - I think in the last 4 years UCONN has lost only 5 times and in the past 5 years UCONN has lost 10 times. 6 of those 10 total losses was to Notre Dame. 2 were to Baylor, 1 to SJU and Stanford round out who beat UCONN In the past 5 years.

But I really think if you want to promote a rivalry, it needs to be between 2 teams who are fairly evenly matched and who take turns beating each other. ND is the only current team out there who has beaten UCONN on a consistent basis in the past 5 years, and then some...

 

[uconnfan68]

Right now I'd say it's more UCONN vs. ND. I saw a stat during the UCONN game - I think in the last 4 years UCONN has lost only 5 times and in the past 5 years UCONN has lost 10 times. 6 of those 10 total losses was to Notre Dame. 2 were to Baylor, 1 to SJU and Stanford round out who beat UCONN In the past 5 years.

But I really think if you want to promote a rivalry, it needs to be between 2 teams who are fairly evenly matched and who take turns beating each other. ND is the only current team out there who has beaten UCONN on a consistent basis in the past 5 years, and then some...

But you needed to narrow their history to come close to making your argument. Bottom line, since 2001 (ND title), we have 8.

 

[EricLA]

But you needed to narrow their history to come close to making your argument. Bottom line, since 2001 (ND title), we have 8.

So I guess UCONN has no rivals. At least according to you. I suspect Geno would disagree.

 

[Gus Mahler]

Did you see the graphic in some game that showed if you took UConn out of ND's record the past three years, ND's record would be 104-1? Not chopped liver.

 

[JordyG]

South Carolina and UCONN? UCONN/ND?

Honestly a rivalry that captures nationwide interest requires a few things. 1) Two or three teams that have different and distinct team/coaching philosophies. 2) Teams and coaches that dislike/hate each other. 3) The teams need to be in very different and distinct areas of the country with different and distinct regional characteristics. 4) The teams need superstar players with different styles of play. It really helps if the players that have a history of either playing against each other previously, with each other previously and/or don't like each other. It also helps if one team is seen as "establishment" and the other as "flashy" or "trendy" or "troubled" 5) One team needs to be on top for quite some time and is then challenged by an upstart that steals their thunder. 6) Rabid and established fan bases. All of these factors went into the Dallas/Pittsburgh football rivalry of the past that elevated football. Also the Jet/Baltimore rivalry of earlier football. The LA/Boston rivalry had all of these factors which pushed football to where it is today. South Carolina is eliminated by #2. ND is eliminated by #1 and partially by #2. There is really only one team that currently has all of these factors with UConn, and that's UT. Perhaps another will rear up to challenge UConn with all of these factors. Perhaps Dawn and Geno will learn to hate each other.

 

[uconnfan68]

So I guess UCONN has no rivals. At least according to you. I suspect Geno would disagree.

I suspect Geno considered Holy Cross a rival. I suspect you've been drinking that media-flavored kool-aid that desperately wants a real rival.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

For me I've never understood the idea that more competitive games and/or a deeper talent pool helps attendance. What moved WCBB and WBB in general before are rivalries that capture the country's attention. That's what happened in pro basketball as well with LA and Boston. This is what generates excitement. A rivalry with two teams from different parts of the country with different approaches to the sport. Pittsburgh and Dallas in football. This is what WCBB needs.

I think that most attendance - at a given school - is in the long run helped by spread out talent, competitive games, etc. One of the factors that will help attendance at a P5 school is the idea that they can compete against the good teams, and whether it is because they have grabbed a really good player or just that they see more and more teams being able to compete, the result is the same.

Over all, folks attend the local team's game. We have 2 passionate ex-Connecticut residents who are big UConn fans out here that stopped attending the local team's games because the local team (U of A) wasn't competitive (the coach was finally let go at the end of this season). A good rivalry for the local team will bring out the fans, for example, in theory at least, the ASU game out here would draw the best.

A national rivalry, like UConn / Tennessee was, for example, might get eyes on the TV set, but it isn't going to translate into a significant long-term attendance bump for anyone but the 2 involved teams and perhaps their peers. The development of a modest amount of parity resulting in competitive games in the tourney can help attendance in the long run.

 

[cockhrnleghrn]

Honestly a rivalry that captures nationwide interest requires a few things. 1) Two or three teams that have different and distinct team/coaching philosophies. 2) Teams and coaches that dislike/hate each other. 3) The teams need to be in very different and distinct areas of the country with different and distinct regional characteristics. 4) The teams need superstar players with different styles of play. It really helps if the players that have a history of either playing against each other previously, with each other previously and/or don't like each other. It also helps if one team is seen as "establishment" and the other as "flashy" or "trendy" or "troubled" 5) One team needs to be on top for quite some time and is then challenged by an upstart that steals their thunder. 6) Rabid and established fan bases. All of these factors went into the Dallas/Pittsburgh football rivalry of the past that elevated football. Also the Jet/Baltimore rivalry of earlier football. The LA/Boston rivalry had all of these factors which pushed football to where it is today. South Carolina is eliminated by #2. ND is eliminated by #1 and partially by #2. There is really only one team that currently has all of these factors with UConn, and that's UT. Perhaps another will rear up to challenge UConn with all of these factors. Perhaps Dawn and Geno will learn to hate each other.

I honestly disagree about the different and distinct areas of the country. The fiercest and longest last rivalries have geographic proximity. Rivalries are about fans as much as teams and living in close proximity to your rivals creates contempt. Yankees/Red Sox, Carolina/Clemson, Duke/UNC, Alabama/Auburn, etc. If the rivalries are based on current coaches/players only, then the rivalries won't stand the test of time.

 

[JordyG]

I honestly disagree about the different and distinct areas of the country. The fiercest and longest last rivalries have geographic proximity. Rivalries are about fans as much as teams and living in close proximity to your rivals creates contempt. Yankees/Red Sox, Carolina/Clemson, Duke/UNC, Alabama/Auburn, etc. If the rivalries are based on current coaches/players only, then the rivalries won't stand the test of time.

Yes, regional rivalries work and are clearly longer lasting. But they work only for local fan bases. As a native New Yorker I can safely say who cares about the (I hate the)Yankees/Boston outside of those regions? Carolina/Clemson, Alabama/Auburn the same. But Alabama/USC or ND. Yankees/LA. These resonate across the country and help build these games' popularity exponentially. The rivalries you speak of happen yearly. The rivalries I speak of happen more occasionally and media attention and fan interest builds more in anticipation.

 

[JordyG]

I think that most attendance - at a given school - is in the long run helped by spread out talent, competitive games, etc. One of the factors that will help attendance at a P5 school is the idea that they can compete against the good teams, and whether it is because they have grabbed a really good player or just that they see more and more teams being able to compete, the result is the same.

Over all, folks attend the local team's game. We have 2 passionate ex-Connecticut residents who are big UConn fans out here that stopped attending the local team's games because the local team (U of A) wasn't competitive (the coach was finally let go at the end of this season). A good rivalry for the local team will bring out the fans, for example, in theory at least, the ASU game out here would draw the best.

A national rivalry, like UConn / Tennessee was, for example, might get eyes on the TV set, but it isn't going to translate into a significant long-term attendance bump for anyone but the 2 involved teams and perhaps their peers. The development of a modest amount of parity resulting in competitive games in the tourney can help attendance in the long run.

I respectively disagree. The UConn/UT rivalry garnered interest in the casual fan to the point where many still talk about it to this day. Viewership on ESPN means national interest, and this interest propelled WCBB to unprecedented heights. To the point where professional BB was made viable in this country. I believe WBB needs this type of boost again.

 

[Sonny44]

It's unlikely, but stranger things have happened. For the growth of the sport, more competitive games and a deeper talent pool should help attendance and viewership.

I don't call these upsets. After the top 12 or so it's a crap shoot, certainly after the top 16 which incorporates the 4 seeds.