S.C. Media Guy on Paige

[WiseWillie]

Not sure about CC being "best player hands down". She has been the beneficiary of relentless media hype ever since Paige went out with an ACL. Paige is much more versatile and IMO a better all-around player. And this stuff on the media of CC "redefining the women's game" is just that: a lot of "media stuff". I would like someone to lay out specifically ust how she has "redefined" the women's game. Give me a break.

A post script:

"redefined the women's game"? How? By shooting long threes? Whoo Hoo. Have these supposedly brilliant sports commentators never heard of Sabrina Ionescu? And if looking at 3 pt %'s Clark 38%, Bueckers 42.1%, Taurasi 36.2%.

OK, what else does Clark bring to "redefine" the women's game? I'll wait while someone comes back with a valid answer besides the overwhelming media hype started by and continues to be promoted endlessly by none other than ESPN, their family of channels and and affiliates of Disney including ABC, et al. - all against long held and publicized criticism of biased coverage of certain teams (Iowa WBB being one?) and love affairs with superstar players (ESPN latched onto CC when PG was out with an ACL but can't jump ship and give PG the same publicity without looking foolish in the eyes of sports world so they continue the endless hype.)

It also doesn't help that Fox carries Big East games and ESPN does not. Their sports commentators aren't aware of this? Please.

 

[WiseWillie]

In response to WiseWillie, Caitlin Clark will win the NPOY, which entitles her being called the best player. In a way, she has refined the women's game, much like Steph Curry altered the NBA. Clark has demonstrated unparalleled shooting range and incorporated that into part of her normal game. Additionally, she is a dynamic passer with incredible court vision. She plays with flair, passion and a high-risk, high-reward style that attracts attention. Yes, she has helped immensely in growing the women's game.

In response to browns, CC's legacy is secure. Her run throughout last year's tourney is legendary. Lest we forget, Paige, when healthy, has led UConn to two Final Four's already. She has another season to add another NPOY to her mantle. I think too many people disregard how difficult it is to rejoin the upper echelons of sport after missing so much time due to injuries. What Paige has accomplished & performing as well as she has is largely going unnoticed nationally.

Anyone who knocks CC down or tries to diminish her accomplishments is not being magnanimous. There's no reason to tear down another player in support of the one you favor. She is spectacular, however, I believe a healthy Paige is the best overall player. Maybe not in terms of stats, but in baseball parlance, she is a 5-tool player.

Maybe UConn doesn't have the team to go all the way this year, but I feel Paige is significantly recovered to load the team on her back. I wouldn't be surprised to see UConn pull off a surprise or two.

The debate will continue, and like politics, people most likely won't change their minds. I acknowledge and applaud what Clark has done for herself, Iowa and women's basketball, but I would rather have Paige on my team.

Surly 1: No one is saying that Clark is not a great player, she most definitely is and may certainly be deserving of NPOY this year. But let's get real here. To say that she "redefines the game" flies in the face of all of the fantastic HOF players that have played and those that are playing in college and at the pro level. I can start naming some names but enough said.

In the end, we all are entitled our opinions. That's what makes forums like this if not exactly factual at least entertaining.

 

[Bone Dog]

A post script:

"redefined the women's game"? How? By shooting long threes? Whoo Hoo. Have these supposedly brilliant sports commentators never heard of Sabrina Ionescu? And if looking at 3 pt %'s Clark 38%, Bueckers 42.1%, Taurasi 36.2%.

OK, what else does Clark bring to "redefine" the women's game? I'll wait while someone comes back with a valid answer besides the overwhelming media hype started by and continues to be promoted endlessly by none other than ESPN, their family of channels and and affiliates of Disney including ABC, et al. - all against long held and publicized criticism of biased coverage of certain teams (Iowa WBB being one?) and love affairs with superstar players (ESPN latched onto CC when PG was out with an ACL but can't jump ship and give PG the same publicity without looking foolish in the eyes of sports world so they continue the endless hype.)

It also doesn't help that Fox carries Big East games and ESPN does not. Their sports commentators aren't aware of this? Please.

"Redefining the women's game" is the new version of "a generational player." It's total BS that gets overused and has to be retired for a few years until the next phrase gets re-discovered. It's not Caitlin's fault the media is so devoid of ideas, just as it wasn't Paige's when they recycled "generational player." The very fact that Juju is playing at the same time as Caitlin and Paige shows all too clearly how empty these epithets are.

 

[maple]

Not sure about CC being "best player hands down". She has been the beneficiary of relentless media hype ever since Paige went out with an ACL. Paige is much more versatile and IMO a better all-around player. And this stuff on the media of CC "redefining the women's game" is just that: a lot of "media stuff". I would like someone to lay out specifically ust how she has "redefined" the women's game. Give me a break.

Imagine if Stewart had had a personal reporter following her around the entire tournament. You know, she only won 4 titles in a row and all that, beyond all her other personal accomplishments. But, oh, wait, the narrative at that time was that UConn was ruining basketball by being “too good” and it was boring and no one wanted to watch.

 

[DRR25]

Much as I sympathize with this sentiment, the @The deacon in me requires me to disagree with the claim that Caitlin’s defense is suspect. She is a great defender when she is called on to be. Iowa’s defense isn’t structured around her. But I’ve seen her make some great defensive plays.

Then let's just say she isn't "called on" much.

 

[DRR25]

Iowa was not a one player team last year, they were a two player team with Czinano at center. This year Czinano is playing in the WNBA. That being said, getting blown out in the final 102-85 by LSU, didn’t help the Iowa mystique either.

Czinano was drafted but was waived by the Sparks so she's not playing in the W. She's playing in Hungary but still has hopes to make it in the W.

 

[JonathanXIV]

Czinano was drafted but was waived by the Sparks so she's not playing in the W. She's playing in Hungary but still has hopes to make it in the W.

Anyone who has watched Paige during the 5 tournament games understands that she is the best and most impactful player in the game. No one impacts the game in as many ways as Paige. She does everything well and makes the right decision and big play when needed. Appreciate what we are seeing. I don't think God made two.

 

[darkstar1]

Relentless media hype? She’s basically averaging 32 points, 8 rebounds, and 9 assists this year. With 46/38/85 shooting splits. It was hype when she was shooting from deep like sophomore year but she’s lived up to the attention she’s been given her whole college career. You’re telling me that player isn’t hands down player of the year? On a team that’s actually well ranked? No you give me a break.

i don’t think she’s redefining the game, and I don’t know why you would mention that to me, but i see her mass appeal. It looks like NBA basketball. You know…that thing that is the pinnacle of the sport. It’s all efficient play and the analytics game. Midrange and post up is dead and young fans don’t like it. It’s not going to get people into the product. We all know boneyard users aren’t the biggest nba watchers anymore and tend to be demographic wise on the older side. It’s okay if you don’t get Caitlin Clark. I would absolutely take Paige over her, there’s a reason from that high school to college transition period she was the darling of the sport. How she plays isn’t drawing the attention anymore on a UConn team that’s not elevated anymore. She loves the midrange, she’s being forced into the post, she’s been injured. You probably can’t even put together an argument outside of opinion on why CC isn’t hands down POY. We are all homers but sometimes you have to face facts.

I am not a stat person. I think watching both players, it is clear that Oaige is the better player. She excels in every aspect of the game, including defense. If she was more selfish, she would score more points. If she was the point guard, she would get more assists. She is a true team player that only takes over when it is necessary. Despite my dislike of stats being determinative of who is the better player, the analytics alone clearly indicate that Paige is the “better” player. Clarke has all the attention this year and will therefore be the POY. All this being said, they are both great. They will both continue to excel, as long as they have their health

 

[Dynastic]

I feel sorry for Paige that the best she can look forward to is the WNBA.

Oh don’t sell Paige short. She can move to a mining town in an autocracy and increase her bank account. Paige will be like Maya … amaze us in basketball for years (with Nike) and go on to impact the world with her generous giving soul.

 

[Blacketh’D]

Totally disagree that the midrange and post up is dead. We’re talking the women’s game, not the NBA. The reason the UConn team isn’t elevated is because of of injuries. I prefer the women’s game to the NBA, analytics or no anylitics. Yes, the media hype is fueling the CC hysteria. ESPN touts Caitlin Clark, then Iowa vs Holy Cross. You have to look at the media hysteria. That’s a fact.

Some of you will never learn. This is to the people who addressed me and the rest of the boneyard. Paige is every bit as good as Clark. I like her more and always have. POY is like MVP. If you’re having the best individual season you deserve to win. Clark is clearly having a better senior season than Paige. You want to talk about 3pt percentage? Paige ATTEMPTS 5 threes a game on average. Clark MAKES 5 threes a game on average. That’s 15 points a night from just perimeter shooting. Percentage is not the end all be all. 38 percent is still probably better than college average with her attempts in double digits. Volume scoring on good efficiency is important. She has that in spades.

Breanna Stewart…a 6’4 forward in the wnba took 34% of her shots from 3 pt range. More than anywhere closer on the floor. Don’t tell me the women’s game is not the NBA. That’s where the game is trending for them too. Don’t tell me Stewie in college was a primary perimeter shooter. You know she wasn’t. Maybe saying midrange is dead is hyperbolic but long 2’s have been outed as inefficient for a long time. So has post play.

Paige will always be more efficient, but she will always never shoot as much as we would like. It’s comparing Steve Nash to Tracy McGrady. You win with both but do the stars align for either of them. Paige has always been better than Caitlin, but that doesn’t mean she’s always doing the best.

 

[Blacketh’D]

I am not a stat person. I think watching both players, it is clear that Oaige is the better player. She excels in every aspect of the game, including defense. If she was more selfish, she would score more points. If she was the point guard, she would get more assists. She is a true team player that only takes over when it is necessary. Despite my dislike of stats being determinative of who is the better player, the analytics alone clearly indicate that Paige is the “better” player. Clarke has all the attention this year and will therefore be the POY. All this being said, they are both great. They will both continue to excel, as long as they have their health

Analytics don’t say she’s the better player though. You still have to interpret the numbers

 

[diggerfoot]

Some of you will never learn. This is to the people who addressed me and the rest of the boneyard. Paige is every bit as good as Clark. I like her more and always have. POY is like MVP. If you’re having the best individual season you deserve to win. Clark is clearly having a better senior season than Paige. You want to talk about 3pt percentage? Paige ATTEMPTS 5 threes a game on average. Clark MAKES 5 threes a game on average. That’s 15 points a night from just perimeter shooting. Percentage is not the end all be all. 38 percent is still probably better than college average with her attempts in double digits. Volume scoring on good efficiency is important. She has that in spades.

Breanna Stewart…a 6’4 forward in the wnba took 34% of her shots from 3 pt range. More than anywhere closer on the floor. Don’t tell me the women’s game is not the NBA. That’s where the game is trending for them too. Don’t tell me Stewie in college was a primary perimeter shooter. You know she wasn’t. Maybe saying midrange is dead is hyperbolic but long 2’s have been outed as inefficient for a long time. So has post play.

Paige will always be more efficient, but she will always never shoot as much as we would like. It’s comparing Steve Nash to Tracy McGrady. You win with both but do the stars align for either of them. Paige has always been better than Caitlin, but that doesn’t mean she’s always doing the best.

My problem with the hype over Clark lies with her teammates. Last year they shot about 5% higher, this year they are shooting about 5% higher. That is a big difference in her teammates favor. Seven of her teammates shoot better than she does. There is a distinct chance that the Iowa offense would be even better if Clark shot less.

The focus on Clark allows her teammates to shoot better, true, but 5% better than her? Again, that is pretty significant. It allows for the counterargument that focusing on Clark risks getting burned even more by her efficient teammates, and thus keeps defenses more honest than they need to be against players like Bueckers.

Another argument can be made that Clark can elevate her game against elite teams and defenses. Also true enough. Against SC her shooting % went up a couple points, her teammates down a couple points, to where they were about the same.

Just last night I heard a hype narrative by a national reporter elevating Clark because of who her teammates are. Where would poor Iowa be without Clark? Well, where would Clark be if her teammates also collectively shot 46%? Considering their defense could they even make the sweet sixteen if the whole team shot 46%?

At some point this part of the hype has to be grating on the other players.

 

[Bone Dog]

At some point this part of the hype has to be grating on the other players.

This.

They’d never say so in public, and they must enjoy winning, but I find it hard to believe the other Hawkeyes don’t occasionally find Caitlin to be a trying teammate.

 

[diggerfoot]

This.

They’d never say so in public, and they must enjoy winning, but I find it hard to believe the other Hawkeyes don’t occasionally find Caitlin to be a trying teammate.

Why would media hype cause Clark’s teammates to find her trying?

As an upperclassmen Jefferson was the second best player in the country. Do you think she found Stewart trying because of the media hype she received? If Jefferson occasionally thought “Hey! I’m not chopped liver!” that would have been directed at the media. That’s where Clark’s teammates would direct their annoyance as well.

I was actually a little glad when some announcer touted Iowa’s four seniors as best of all time. Now that’s some serious hype, but at least it acknowledges that Iowa has been a team, rather than an individual carrying a team.

 

[Bone Dog]

Why would media hype cause Clark’s teammates to find her trying?

As an upperclassmen Jefferson was the second best player in the country. Do you think she found Stewart trying because of the media hype she received? If Jefferson occasionally thought “Hey! I’m not chopped liver!” that would have been directed at the media. That’s where Clark’s teammates would direct their annoyance as well.

I was actually a little glad when some announcer touted Iowa’s four seniors as best of all time. Now that’s some serious hype, but at least it acknowledges that Iowa has been a team, rather than an individual carrying a team.

There's other things that might try them besides media hype.