rehashing our ACC snub

[nelsonmuntz]

Things that did not matter in realignment:

The lawsuit. Louisville screwed VTech so badly when the Metro Conference came apart that the lawsuit looks like a spilled cup of water by comparison. VTech managed to get past it.

Things that did matter:

UConn coaching situation: If the decision was made today, UConn is picked with thundering applause. Louisville has an aging basketball coach and a dirtbag football coach. Unfortunately, back then, even UConn was unwilling to endorse their basketball coach (a huge mistake in my opinion), and Pasqualoni was sleeping on the sidelines between Matlock reruns.

Boston College - Boston College does not want UConn in the ACC. It is reality, but something that Manuel and Herbst should have been able to manage.

Academics - I think this was important for a few schools, but surprisingly, one of the snootiest schools academically, BCU, didn't care. That said, the Tobacco Road schools care a lot which is why they were pro-UConn.

Market - Another place where UConn probably won against Louisville. We border NYC where the ACC and Big 10 were fighting it out for market share. Louisville is an island on the corner of the Big 10 and SEC that will never be the primary draw in their own modest market.

Leadership - UConn got crushed in this department. Up until 24 hours prior to the announcement, UConn was a "done deal" to the ACC. Herbst and Manuel blew it, pure and simple. Manuel should have been fired for that.

 

[SubbaBub]

Things that did matter:

Boston College - Boston College does not want UConn in the ACC. It is reality, but something that Manuel and Herbst should have been able to manage.

It boggles the mind that people still don't get this. It was an inability to get a consensus of ACC decision makers to invite UConn. BC was a major reason along with FSU and the other southern FB programs wanting the better FB program (UL). I know head to head, Krags, blah blah. They won high profile games and BCS bowls, they were a bigger FB name, from a southern state, and had as solid a hoops history.

If you want to attribute swings votes or "yea whatever" votes to the old boy network Jurich had over the UCONN team or lingering dislike for Calhoun or Cuse giving the 'we'd rather not have them with us' high sign, I won't argue, but that's 10% at most. FB was 60% and BC was 30%.

 

[upstater]

It boggles the mind that people still don't get this. It was an inability to get a consensus of ACC decision makers to invite UConn. BC was a major reason along with FSU and the other southern FB programs wanting the better FB program (UL). I know head to head, Krags, blah blah. They won high profile games and BCS bowls, they were a bigger FB name, from a southern state, and had as solid a hoops history.

If you want to attribute swings votes or "yea whatever" votes to the old boy network Jurich had over the UCONN team or lingering dislike for Calhoun or Cuse giving the 'we'd rather not have them with us' high sign, I won't argue, but that's 10% at most. FB was 60% and BC was 30%.

I don't know of a single person here who disagrees with the point about Louisville football being the reason they were added. Everyone understands this.

The point of contention was money earlier in this thread, which means market.

Most UConn fans bring up BC in the context of 2011 and the selection of Pitt/Cuse.

Let's not get things confused.

There were 4 different poachings of the BE by the ACC. BC figured against UConn in the 3rd poaching. The 4th poaching was really all about FSU and Clemson asserting their preferences for football.

I think we tend to mash all these factors together as though this happened all at once.

 

[amory]

Paul Pasqualoni may have single-handedly ruined UConn's chance of ever being in a top conference again. He's literally the worst thing that's ever happened to our athletic department. Even if we're mediocre after Edsall leaves, going 6-6 and playing in a bowl game each season (even if we don't win them), I think we get into the ACC. His utter incompetence and the way he stopped our momentum cold and drove the program into the ground killed any shot we had at getting invited anywhere. Our football has been an embarrassment for 3 years now.

We can talk about the B1G and the ACC and finding a realignment partner and the AAU and all this other stuff until we're blue in the face. Our only real hope is Bob Diaco turning us into a perennial 9 or 10 win team and winning bowl games. That'll up our attendance and get us some looks, especially if we continue to succeed the way we do in basketball.

 

[upstater]

Paul Pasqualoni may have single-handedly ruined UConn's chance of ever being in a top conference again. He's literally the worst thing that's ever happened to our athletic department. Even if we're mediocre after Edsall leaves, going 6-6 and playing in a bowl game each season (even if we don't win them), I think we get into the ACC. His utter incompetence and the way he stopped our momentum cold and drove the program into the ground killed any shot we had at getting invited anywhere. Our football has been an embarrassment for 3 years now.

We can talk about the B1G and the ACC and finding a realignment partner and the AAU and all this other stuff until we're blue in the face. Our only real hope is Bob Diaco turning us into a perennial 9 or 10 win team and winning bowl games. That'll up our attendance and get us some looks, especially if we continue to succeed the way we do in basketball.

While I agree with much of what you write, imagine the sour pusses on the faces of the big Louisville backers in the ACC when Paul pasqualoni beat a ranked Charlie Strong team AT Louisville in front of a half-filled stadium.

 

[UConnJim]

There is another factor that has been overlooked.

In my opinion, ultimately, the ACC thinks they will end up with 16 all sports schools. I really think they believe ND will be forced to join a conference for all sports in the future. They may be wrong, but I think that is the way they are thinking.

When you look at options out there for the ACC replacement of Maryland, it really came down to Louisville vs UConn. Clearly, there are plusses and minuses to both schools that have been rehashed in this thread, but Louisville had a possible other conference option and UConn did not. If the ACC took UConn, and Louisville went to the Big 12, who would be the options at #16 if ND joined the conference for football? Cincinnati? UCF? USF? They don't seem to be real options for the ACC, although Cincinnati could be a possibility.

 

[pj]

There is another factor that has been overlooked.

In my opinion, ultimately, the ACC thinks they will end up with 16 all sports schools. I really think they believe ND will be forced to join a conference for all sports in the future. They may be wrong, but I think that is the way they are thinking.

When you look at options out there for the ACC replacement of Maryland, it really came down to Louisville vs UConn. Clearly, there are plusses and minuses to both schools that have been rehashed in this thread, but Louisville had a possible other conference option and UConn did not. If the ACC took UConn, and Louisville went to the Big 12, who would be the options at #16 if ND joined the conference for football? Cincinnati? UCF? USF? They don't seem to be real options for the ACC, although Cincinnati could be a possibility.

Yes, agreed, I've previously argued this was the decisive consideration.

But ... it may backfire against the ACC. I think for political reasons the B12 was always going to avoid expansion, as it destabilizes the conference in the long run. And the B1G has always been planning entry into the northeast, which makes UConn attractive to them. The ACC may have miscalculated in who to take. We shall see.

 

[The Funster]

I think it will be years before the truth comes out on who supported whom behind closed doors. Penn State for years thought Syracuse was one of the schools blocking them from the Big East, but turns out we were a supporter. I could be wrong but I suspect Syracuse was a supporter for UConn.

I bet it actually went something like this:
- D Gross: yes, we like UConn. Good regional rival. Great hoops. Close road trips.
-Swofford: Daryl, they dont have the votes. Florida State and Clemson want Louisville. What do you think.
- D Gross: yes, we like Louisville. Great basketball, up and coming athletic department, and we've enjoyed beating them in football recently.

All I am saying we dont know what was said, who supported whom, and the context in which it happend.

The Cuse isnt a bunch of nancies, nor are we afraid of UConn. Respected rival, yes, but not afraid.

I don't think Cuse is afraid of UConn as BC was afraid of UConn. I think whatever Cuse decided was more pragmatic than emotional. They may not have actively stuck up for UConn but I don't think they kicked us to curb so much as went along with the way the wind was already blowing in the ACC regarding Louisville. BC was scared. No doubt about that.

 

[UConnJim]

Yes, agreed, I've previously argued this was the decisive consideration.

But ... it may backfire against the ACC. I think for political reasons the B12 was always going to avoid expansion, as it destabilizes the conference in the long run. And the B1G has always been planning entry into the northeast, which makes UConn attractive to them. The ACC may have miscalculated in who to take. We shall see.

There are only 3 stable conferences: B1G, SEC, and Pac 12. If the SEC asked Clemson or FSU to join, they would join. I don't see the Pac 12 schools joining any other conference as they are too distant to other conferences. But, I could see 4 Big 12 teams joining the Pac 12 at some point or 2 joining the SEC. The B1G seems solid, especially with the BTN, although I did think at one time the ACC had a small shot at PSU.

The Big 12 at ten schools is not stable in the long run.

 

[upstater]

I don't think Cuse is afraid of UConn as BC was afraid of UConn. I think whatever Cuse decided was more pragmatic than emotional. They may not have actively stuck up for UConn but I don't think they kicked us to curb so much as went along with the way the wind was already blowing in the ACC regarding Louisville. BC was scared. No doubt about that.

Cuse's huge decline in football coincided with UConn's rise. No more Tebucky Jones's and Dwight Freeney's for them, nor Floyd Little's for that matter. Plus, they could own NYC in bball once again.

 

[UConnDan97]

No, I don't think UConn football is respected. Louisville football is respected now, but a few years ago it was in CUSA and worse than mediocre. I think the current perception of UConn football is just as changeable as Louisville's past perception was. There is a predominant "what have you done for me lately" attitude. And if UConn were to go 13-0, as you so presciently predict, we would soon rise above Louisville in people's football perception.

Regardless of that, it's a short-sighted attitude to grade universities and athletic departments on recent performance of the football team. The ACC just did that, but it was under great stress. Also, it was choosing between two athletic programs very similar in stature, so small considerations could tip the balance.

The B1G has smarter people thinking about realignment from a secure position and able to take a long-term view. They also have a different model which rewards state flagships with strong loyalty and values basketball more than ESPN does. (ESPN has a ton of pro and college winter sports inventory and won't pay up for an additional bit of college basketball; the BTN has no pro sports inventory and gains great benefit from quality winter sports.) Given that the ACC has sold itself lock stock and barrel to ESPN, UConn isn't as valuable to them, because our quality sports aren't needed by ESPN. But UConn is extremely valuable to the B1G, for its basketball, multiple quality sports, domination of Connecticut, reach into New York and New England, and football potential.

What I'm saying is that, among the decision-makers I care about, Louisville's recent football success won't matter a damn. Think about it from the B1G's perspective. They would never in a million years consider Louisville, even if Louisville won a national championship in football, or ten national championships. They will consider UConn, even if our football team stays mediocre.

So, you agree with me about the fact that our perception was not that of the Ville's.
So, you agree with me that the perception affected the decision from the ACC.
So you agree with me that UConn's upside is greater than that of the Ville.

So what the heck are you fighting with me for???

 

[pj]

So, you agree with me about the fact that our perception was not that of the Ville's.
So, you agree with me that the perception affected the decision from the ACC.
So you agree with me that UConn's upside is greater than that of the Ville.

So what the heck are you fighting with me for???

I'm not fighting with you! Just teasing you that you don't acknowledge that our coming 13-0 seasons will raise our profile past Ville's. I think you're a little weak in the knees with your 13-0 ... a little lacking in confidence ...

P.S. - We did have a minor scuffle on another thread over whether Missouri would consider leaving the SEC for the B1G. You said that was crazy. I said it was reasonable for Mizzou to leave. But, that's not important.

 

[UConnDan97]

I'm not fighting with you! Just teasing you that you don't acknowledge that our coming 13-0 seasons will raise our profile past Ville's. I think you're a little weak in the knees with your 13-0 ... a little lacking in confidence ...

P.S. - We did have a minor scuffle on another thread over whether Missouri would consider leaving the SEC for the B1G. You said that was crazy. I said it was reasonable for Mizzou to leave. But, that's not important.

Ah. I must be getting old, because all the threads are merging into one thread in my head.

As for the 13-0...you can bank on it, slap it up, flip it, and rub it down! 13-0 is happening, my friend. The only question left is whether or not you're ready to handle the 13-0. Whether or not you're ready to embrace the 13-0. Prepare yourself emotionally, because we only have a few more weeks left before the magic starts happening...

 

[pj]

Ah. I must be getting old, because all the threads are merging into one thread in my head.

As for the 13-0...you can bank on it, slap it up, flip it, and rub it down! 13-0 is happening, my friend. The only question left is whether or not you're ready to handle the 13-0. Whether or not you're ready to embrace the 13-0. Prepare yourself emotionally, because we only have a few more weeks left before the magic starts happening...

I can embrace 13-0. In fact, I can hug and kiss 14-0. But I will go all the way with 15-0.

 

[CL82]

Ah. I must be getting old, because all the threads are merging into one thread in my head.

As for the 13-0...you can bank on it, slap it up, flip it, and rub it down! 13-0 is happening, my friend. The only question left is whether or not you're ready to handle the 13-0. Whether or not you're ready to embrace the 13-0. Prepare yourself emotionally, because we only have a few more weeks left before the magic starts happening...

You know Dan I will be sending you my therapy bill but for now count me in.

 

[Marty Jackson]

this thread is like someone saying, "hey, remember that colonoscopy you had? would love for you to share the details again."

 

[Marty Jackson]

PJ, you're killing me, dude. Seriously, you're killing me.

Do you think that our football team is as respected in the eyes of others (especially southerners) as the Ville is? I'm being serious, now. When people think of our football, they either think of the Fiesta Bowl that they believe we didn't belong in, or they think about the Pasqualoni years where we went "bowl-less". When they think of the Ville's football team, they think of Teddy Bridgewater or they think of them pasting Florida in a BCS bowl. That's a fact. And that has NOTHING to do with the fact that we're gonna go 13-0 this year!

This is not about my feelings for our team. Nor is it necessarily the reality of our future. But it's the current perception. And in college football, perception becomes the reality...

it does reflect how much a credible coach can change perception. UofL was all about Strong and the potential he brought. Bridgwater was icing on the cake. People forgot all about the experiment called "Kragthorpe"....
Diaco could very likely have the same success as Strong, and hopefully would have the same effect on perception.

 

[Sea Goat]

it does reflect how much a credible coach can change perception. UofL was all about Strong and the potential he brought. Bridgwater was icing on the cake. People forgot all about the experiment called "Kragthorpe"....
Diaco could very likely have the same success as Strong, and hopefully would have the same effect on perception.

A lot of truth here - in case anyone thought that HCPP and effingJH didn't hurt us big time. But I think Diaco can be transformational and that will certainly help. But, someone has to be looking when we're looking good!

 

[Gampeltiles]

There's been a lot of different theories as to why Louisville beat us for the last realignment spot in the P5.

Heard Tom Jurich the other on the radio -- it was interesting hearing from the horse's mouth who helped Louisville get that last spot.

Some we've already spoken about: FSU, Clemson. No surprise there -- Southern schools culturally more of a fit with Louisville than UCONN.

The other specific people he thanked were the Syracuse AD and Duke AD: old friends of his from years back.

A couple of things struck me when I heard this: 1) Jurich plain and simple had been around for a lot longer than Manual, and had a larger set of connections and markers to call in. 2) While he didn't specifically name or speak about UCONN, he did say that he thought a big part of Louisville's selection was that it hadn't had any type of NCAA investigation/violation in any program during his 17 year stint at Louisville.

That suggests to me that UCONN couldn't have been in a worse position having been under the shadow of NCAA violations and an unproven rookie head coach during this selection process. I've heard a lot of people holding Warde Manual and Susan Herbst to the fire due to their performance during those 12 days of realignment jockeying. But UCONN's probation wasn't their fault. Calhoun couldn't have lost the reigns of our signature program at a worse time. I realize he didn't have any idea that this was going to play out this way, but let's also realize that there is a lot of blame that can be spread around.

It certainly reasonable to surmise that UCONN football has not paid its dues. For , we have people on this board suggesting we return to FCS status. If we don't support the program why should ANY other school support the program?

Louisville got the nod. The timing was horrendous from a UCONN perspective as the OP so rightfully notes. I won't rehash it, it is covered very well. However, there is something that does not get mentioned. I hate to bring it up but it is part of UCONN's cache, unfortunately. Neither Rutgers nor Louisville had a Jaspar Howard incident, right in the middle of campus. To this day we ask why???

If you don't think other schools consider this when it is time to vote, you are wrong. It tips the scales, and should.

It weighs on the program, and pushes "the dues" up. It is what it is, and can only be healed by separation, TIME. Years and years of TIME. Get used to the AAC, we are not going anywhere soon.

 

[06029]

It certainly reasonable to surmise that UCONN football has not paid their dues. For , we have people on this board suggesting we return to FCS status. If we don't support the program why should ANY other school support the program?

Louisville got the nod. The timing was horrendous from a UCONN perspective as the OP so rightfully notes. I won't rehash it, it is covered very well. However, there is something that does not get mentioned and I hate to bring it up but it is part of UCONN's cache, neither Rutgers nor Louisville had a Jaspar Howard incident, right in the middle of campus. To this day we ask why???

If you don't think other schools consider that incident when it is time to vote, you are wrong. It tips the scales, and should.

It weighs on the program, and pushes "the dues" up. It is what it is and can only be healed by time.

Only Uconn? Maybe not on campus but..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bryan_Pata
http://espn.go.com/college-football...ootball-player-demarius-reed-found-shot-death
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/03/27/man-arrested-allegedly-stabbing-fla-college-football-player/

Maybe there is 0.001% factor from Howard but most of the schools realize stuff like that can and will happen anywhere.

Follow the money. Then throw in the egos. If you really think Roy and Coach rat face at Duke are big Uconn supporters, I'll have some of whatever you are drinking or taking. Uconn in the spotlight means no spotlight for them. They can deal with slimey Rick because he has implosion and suspension written all over him but with Uconn, they have real competition on a yearly basis.

 

[Gampeltiles]

Only Uconn? Maybe not on campus but..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bryan_Pata
http://espn.go.com/college-football...ootball-player-demarius-reed-found-shot-death
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/03/27/man-arrested-allegedly-stabbing-fla-college-football-player/

Maybe there is 0.001% factor from Howard but most of the schools realize stuff like that can and will happen anywhere.

Follow the money. Then throw in the egos. If you really think Roy and Coach rat face at Duke are big Uconn supporters, I'll have some of whatever you are drinking or taking. Uconn in the spotlight means no spotlight for them. They can deal with slimey Rick because he has implosion and suspension written all over him but with Uconn, they have real competition on a yearly basis.

I disagree. K. & Williams----phonies? Maybe. Tough to take? Absolutely.

However, I think they know it is in the best interest of ACC basketball is to have us. It's about the future of the ACC. They are stronger with us than without us.

Our futility in CR is about our football and University reputation.

 

[Pudge]

That's complete BS.

Of all the dumb comments. Jasper Howard has NOTHING to do with this. You think you know the broader stories? Syracuse has had two separate stabbing incidents involving football players in the last 20 years. And sexual assaults and crime are all over these schools; rare when you have one of the P5 Programs without one in 10 years.

 

[Gampeltiles]

So murder is just a teeny little problem we sweep under the rug. Got it.
Look at Penn State, murder is just a blip on the radar compared to what happened under the beloved JoePa.
And the incidents at other Universities that you site in your misguided post, so what??? Why try to correct it? It's just, ya know, normal, especially in a P5 school (still trying to piece together any sense of logic there, I'm wondering if there is a rape per year minimum in a P5 school) ...those wacky kids will be kids!
Thanks for pointing out the broader perspective, I feel truly enlightened now, thanks again.
btw--do you have any kids in college?

 

[whaler11]

So murder is just a teeny little problem we sweep under the rug. Got it.
Look at Penn State, murder is just a blip on the radar compared to what happened under the beloved JoePa.
And the incidents at other Universities that you site in your misguided post, so what??? Why try to correct it? It's just, ya know, normal, especially in a P5 school (still trying to piece together any sense of logic there, I'm wondering if there is a rape per year minimum in a P5 school) ...those wacky kids will be kids!
Thanks for pointing out the broader perspective, I feel truly enlightened now, thanks again.
btw--do you have any kids in college?

What is wrong with you?

 

[coachcap]

This thread has taken a repulsive turn.