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rehashing our ACC snub

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UConnDan97

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Note: Louisville fans don't really travel for the regular season. They were non-existent for instance at the BET. They travel to bowl games, which isn't that hard when you're talking about a short drive (10 hours to Florida, 8 to new Orleans). USA Today finances...

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/schools/finances/

Pay close attention to the ticket revenue and contributions jump in 2011 for Louisville. They went up $25.5m in revenue in 2011, but the ticket sales and seat contributions skyrocketed $20m. All Yum money.

Louisville averaged $12-13m in tv rights/licensing for the 5 years prior to that.
UConn was at $15m-23m.

Also, I didn't ask for the numbers of combined tv rights / licensing. I don't want to know about the numbers that include IMG or Nike. I want to know about straight tv rights. Can you find that for me? Otherwise, it's pointless to talk about it...
 

UConnDan97

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So you are saying that we should convince Hartford to pay for an arena it can't afford so that UConn athletics looks more attractive fiscally? Good idea, unfortunately the Rock Cats beat us to it.

That's not what I'm saying. Holy cow, people! What I'm saying is that there was a monetary valuation of the Ville vs. UConn where the Ville came out ahead. That's all. Simple. I'm not saying what the state could have done differently. I'm not saying what the school could have done differently. I'm not saying anything other than the fact that I believe the move came down to MONEY and we somehow lost.

Let me go on record as saying that I believe not only that we are close in value monetarily to the Ville, but that we have much more upside, especially in the Fairfield County / NYC areas. But my goodness, folks...
 
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Also, I didn't ask for the numbers of combined tv rights / licensing. I don't want to know about the numbers that include IMG or Nike. I want to know about straight tv rights. Can you find that for me? Otherwise, it's pointless to talk about it...

Straight TV rights are pooled with the AAC. We get less than $2m a year. ESPN owns all of it. But IMG produces the coaches shows and sells advertising and then pays UConn $8m a year. All our TV rights are owned by the AAC and by ESPN. There is absolutely no separation there. Same thing for Louisville when it was in the AAC. The AAC has tier 3 rights. And, for that matter, so does the ACC.
 

UConnDan97

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Straight TV rights is pooled with the AAC. We get less than $2m a year. ESPN owns all of it. But IMG produces the coaches shows and sells advertising and then pays UConn $8m a year. All our TV rights are owned by the AAC and by ESPN. There is absolutely no separation there. Same thing for Louisville when it was in the AAC. The AAC has tier 3 rights. And, for that matter, so does the ACC.

Then we aren't talking about the right numbers. We need to talk about ratings then, and how they are projected into dollar values.

Trust me, folks; the move was made on money. If anyone thinks there was some higher motive to choose the Ville over UConn based on anything other than money, I have some land to sell you in the Everglades...
 
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Holy cow, I can't believe that I have to really spell out what I'm saying. When I said "ticket sales", I meant that a game in Florida State would attract more Florida State fans if the opponent was the Ville instead of UConn, just like our BYU game will attract more fans than the Temple game. I hope that's clear enough now...

How in the world is anyone supposed to read your mind?

FSU, by the way, gets 75k for Bethune Cookman, and 75k for Syracuse, and 75k for a top 25 ranked ACC team. I'm not sure about this theory that they will draw a lot more fans with different opposition. Only archrival Miami created an uptick for them.
 
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Then we aren't talking about the right numbers. We need to talk about ratings then, and how they are projected into dollar values.

Trust me, folks; the move was made on money. If anyone thinks there was some higher motive to choose the Ville over UConn based on anything other than money, I have some land to sell you in the Everglades...

Show us what you are talking about so at least we can figure out what you're discussing here.
 

UConnDan97

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How in the world is anyone supposed to read your mind?

FSU, by the way, gets 75k for Bethune Cookman, and 75k for Syracuse, and 75k for a top 25 ranked ACC team. I'm not sure about this theory that they will draw a lot more fans with different opposition. Only archrival Miami created an uptick for them.

Then let's not look at FSU. Let's look at Wake. Or Duke. Or Miami. Or any other ACC school. Good God, man! I know that you understand what I'm saying, and I'm not sure why you are playing coy...
 

whaler11

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Then let's not look at FSU. Let's look at Wake. Or Duke. Or Miami. Or any other ACC school. Good God, man! I know that you understand what I'm saying, and I'm not sure why you are playing coy...

He's got some weird blind spot about Louisville where he can't see how good their football team has been.

Call them LCC, mock their scumbag coaches, question the shady deal on Yum, yes they would let Ted Bundy in if he could run for 1,500 yards: but they put good teams on the field and won a lot of games.
 
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Then let's not look at FSU. Let's look at Wake. Or Duke. Or Miami. Or any other ACC school. Good God, man! I know that you understand what I'm saying, and I'm not sure why you are playing coy...

I can only respond to things you say. How is anyone supposed to have a discussion here?

OK, let's look at Wake and Miami.

Wake first, 26k for Presbyterian, 26k for ULMonroe, 30k for NC State (a bump for extra NC State fans), 27k for Maryland, 30k for FSU, 28k for Duke.

Then comes Miami:

50k for Fla Atlantic, 77k for Florida (Tim Tebow day), 42k for Savannah st, 47k for Georgia Tech (less than for Fla. Atlantic), 49k for Virginia Tech, 44k for Virginia. Seems to me that schools like Georgia Tech, Virginia Tech and Virginia don't bring an influx of fans. In fact, you can argue Miami is better off playing FIU and FAU at home rather than ACC schools like the ones mentioned above.

The real test here is to see how many fans show up for say Boston College or Syracuse away games versus Virginia Tech games (BC/Cuse being a proxy for UConn, while Va Tech could seen as a proxy for Louisville (outside Virginia/NC because we know Va Tech fans travel well).

Then you'd see if there are any divergences between bottom ACC schools as attractors and top ACC schools. From looking at Miami, Duke and Wake Forest, it doesn't seem Virginia Tech and the like draw more fans.

Heck, Duke is even worse in this regard than the other two since more people went to see Troy St. than Miami, Fla.: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Duke_Blue_Devils_football_team
 
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He's got some weird blind spot about Louisville where he can't see how good their football team has been.

Call them LCC, mock their scumbag coaches, question the shady deal on Yum, yes they would let Ted Bundy in if he could run for 1,500 yards: but they put good teams on the field and won a lot of games.

Anything more irrelevant you have to add to this conversation?

FACT: UConn has more players in the NFL, and did back when this supposedly mattered as a criteria for adding teams.
FACT: The quality of the opponent does not seem to change attendance at any of the 4 schools that Dan mentioned.

Go ahead, ignore facts, that's what you like to do.
 

whaler11

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Anything more irrelevant you have to add to this conversation?

FACT: UConn has more players in the NFL, and did back when this supposedly mattered as a criteria for adding teams.
FACT: The quality of the opponent does not seem to change attendance at any of the 4 schools that Dan mentioned.

Go ahead, ignore facts, that's what you like to do.

Fact: In football, Louisville was much more successful than UConn while they shared the Big East/AAC.

If you are dumb enough to believe that the quality of opponent doesn't change attendance you may want to check yourself into a hospital. You are suffering from a pretty traumatic brain injury.
 

UConnDan97

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He's got some weird blind spot about Louisville where he can't see how good their football team has been.

Call them LCC, mock their scumbag coaches, question the shady deal on Yum, yes they would let Ted Bundy in if he could run for 1,500 yards: but they put good teams on the field and won a lot of games.

This is the unfortunate reality in this discussion. Unfortunately for us, the decision was not made during the time when they were led by Kragthorpe...
 
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Fact: In football, Louisville was much more successful than UConn while they shared the Big East/AAC.

If you are dumb enough to believe that the quality of opponent doesn't change attendance you may want to check yourself into a hospital. You are suffering from a pretty traumatic brain injury.

The difference between UConn/Louisville means nada.

I posted the attendance for Miami, Duke, FSU and Wake forest, the four schools mentioned by Dan.

AND, again you write something totally irrelevant. This isn't a discussion about Louisville football versus UConn football. We were discussing TV markets and money.
 
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This is the unfortunate reality in this discussion. Unfortunately for us, the decision was not made during the time when they were led by Kragthorpe...

I'm done on this. I keep providing the facts that you guys request, the $$, the attendance numbers from 4 different schools, and you guys ignore it. And then say I have a blind spot. It's hilarious. Go on doing what you do.
 

whaler11

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The difference between UConn/Louisville means nada.

I posted the attendance for Miami, Duke, FSU and Wake forest, the four schools mentioned by Dan.

AND, again you write something totally irrelevant. This isn't a discussion about Louisville football versus UConn football. We were discussing TV markets and money.

You are using bogus numbers published by schools.

Miami's attendance numbers are less reliable than North Korea's World Cup scores. The schools just print a bunch of free tickets that fall into black holes and then publish what they distribute.

Maybe you'll understand this: Published attendance is just like a president filling out a US News survey.
 

whaler11

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I'm done on this. I keep providing the facts that you guys request, the , the attendance numbers from 4 different schools, and you guys ignore it. And then say I have a blind spot. It's hilarious. Go on doing what you do.

When NickyNewark is liking your posts maybe it's time for some self-reflection?
 
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I'm done on this. I keep providing the facts that you guys request, the , the attendance numbers from 4 different schools, and you guys ignore it. And then say I have a blind spot. It's hilarious. Go on doing what you do.
Watching the back and forth of you guys is.. i hate to say it but.. hilarious upstater...now Im completely lost lol smh??
 

whaler11

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Literally two seconds to look up Michigan's ticket prices for individual home games this season would make it clear that the opponent impacts attendance. They don't charge $35 for Utah State because the demand is the same as the $100 games.
 

UConnDan97

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I'm done on this. I keep providing the facts that you guys request, the , the attendance numbers from 4 different schools, and you guys ignore it. And then say I have a blind spot. It's hilarious. Go on doing what you do.

I said, "or any other ACC school." I said, "...ratings numbers." I said a lot of things, but I just don't care to have this discussion any further with you. We're not getting anywhere....fast...
 

pj

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I said, "or any other ACC school." I said, "...ratings numbers." I said a lot of things, but I just don't care to have this discussion any further with you. We're not getting anywhere....fast...

I want to know why you think we can go 13-0 yet not outdraw Louisville.
 

UConnDan97

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I want to know why you think we can go 13-0 yet not outdraw Louisville.

PJ, you're killing me, dude. Seriously, you're killing me.

Do you think that our football team is as respected in the eyes of others (especially southerners) as the Ville is? I'm being serious, now. When people think of our football, they either think of the Fiesta Bowl that they believe we didn't belong in, or they think about the Pasqualoni years where we went "bowl-less". When they think of the Ville's football team, they think of Teddy Bridgewater or they think of them pasting Florida in a BCS bowl. That's a fact. And that has NOTHING to do with the fact that we're gonna go 13-0 this year!

This is not about my feelings for our team. Nor is it necessarily the reality of our future. But it's the current perception. And in college football, perception becomes the reality...
 
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PJ, you're killing me, dude. Seriously, you're killing me.

Do you think that our football team is as respected in the eyes of others (especially southerners) as the Ville is? I'm being serious, now. When people think of our football, they either think of the Fiesta Bowl that they believe we didn't belong in, or they think about the Pasqualoni years where we went "bowl-less". When they think of the Ville's football team, they think of Teddy Bridgewater or they think of them pasting Florida in a BCS bowl. That's a fact. And that has NOTHING to do with the fact that we're gonna go 13-0 this year!

This is not about my feelings for our team. Nor is it necessarily the reality of our future. But it's the current perception. And in college football, perception becomes the reality...
The reality of the perception outside of the NE is simply.....they DON'T remember we were in the Fiesta Bowl, they remember us playing the University of Richmond in FB...they think of us as a basketball school...damn good one but our FB program has zero status.
 

pj

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PJ, you're killing me, dude. Seriously, you're killing me.

Do you think that our football team is as respected in the eyes of others (especially southerners) as the Ville is? I'm being serious, now. When people think of our football, they either think of the Fiesta Bowl that they believe we didn't belong in, or they think about the Pasqualoni years where we went "bowl-less". When they think of the Ville's football team, they think of Teddy Bridgewater or they think of them pasting Florida in a BCS bowl. That's a fact. And that has NOTHING to do with the fact that we're gonna go 13-0 this year!

This is not about my feelings for our team. Nor is it necessarily the reality of our future. But it's the current perception. And in college football, perception becomes the reality...

No, I don't think UConn football is respected. Louisville football is respected now, but a few years ago it was in CUSA and worse than mediocre. I think the current perception of UConn football is just as changeable as Louisville's past perception was. There is a predominant "what have you done for me lately" attitude. And if UConn were to go 13-0, as you so presciently predict, we would soon rise above Louisville in people's football perception.

Regardless of that, it's a short-sighted attitude to grade universities and athletic departments on recent performance of the football team. The ACC just did that, but it was under great stress. Also, it was choosing between two athletic programs very similar in stature, so small considerations could tip the balance.

The B1G has smarter people thinking about realignment from a secure position and able to take a long-term view. They also have a different model which rewards state flagships with strong loyalty and values basketball more than ESPN does. (ESPN has a ton of pro and college winter sports inventory and won't pay up for an additional bit of college basketball; the BTN has no pro sports inventory and gains great benefit from quality winter sports.) Given that the ACC has sold itself lock stock and barrel to ESPN, UConn isn't as valuable to them, because our quality sports aren't needed by ESPN. But UConn is extremely valuable to the B1G, for its basketball, multiple quality sports, domination of Connecticut, reach into New York and New England, and football potential.

What I'm saying is that, among the decision-makers I care about, Louisville's recent football success won't matter a damn. Think about it from the B1G's perspective. They would never in a million years consider Louisville, even if Louisville won a national championship in football, or ten national championships. They will consider UConn, even if our football team stays mediocre.
 
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No, I don't think UConn football is respected. Louisville football is respected now, but a few years ago it was in CUSA and worse than mediocre. I think the current perception of UConn football is just as changeable as Louisville's past perception was. There is a predominant "what have you done for me lately" attitude. And if UConn were to go 13-0, as you so presciently predict, we would soon rise above Louisville in people's football perception.

Regardless of that, it's a short-sighted attitude to grade universities and athletic departments on recent performance of the football team. The ACC just did that, but it was under great stress. Also, it was choosing between two athletic programs very similar in stature, so small considerations could tip the balance.

The B1G has smarter people thinking about realignment from a secure position and able to take a long-term view. They also have a different model which rewards state flagships with strong loyalty and values basketball more than ESPN does. (ESPN has a ton of pro and college winter sports inventory and won't pay up for an additional bit of college basketball; the BTN has no pro sports inventory and gains great benefit from quality winter sports.) Given that the ACC has sold itself lock stock and barrel to ESPN, UConn isn't as valuable to them, because our quality sports aren't needed by ESPN. But UConn is extremely valuable to the B1G, for its basketball, multiple quality sports, domination of Connecticut, reach into New York and New England, and football potential.

What I'm saying is that, among the decision-makers I care about, Louisville's recent football success won't matter a damn. Think about it from the B1G's perspective. They would never in a million years consider Louisville, even if Louisville won a national championship in football, or ten national championships. They will consider UConn, even if our football team stays mediocre.

I don't want the B1G just because of the ACC snub of UConn. I think the ACC's expansion has been expedient and reactive. The moves have been stupid and short sighted IMO. The B1G is clearly a superior opportunity for UConn - let's hope it happens.
 
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No, I don't think UConn football is respected. Louisville football is respected now, but a few years ago it was in CUSA and worse than mediocre. I think the current perception of UConn football is just as changeable as Louisville's past perception was. There is a predominant "what have you done for me lately" attitude. And if UConn were to go 13-0, as you so presciently predict, we would soon rise above Louisville in people's football perception.

Regardless of that, it's a short-sighted attitude to grade universities and athletic departments on recent performance of the football team. The ACC just did that, but it was under great stress. Also, it was choosing between two athletic programs very similar in stature, so small considerations could tip the balance.

The B1G has smarter people thinking about realignment from a secure position and able to take a long-term view. They also have a different model which rewards state flagships with strong loyalty and values basketball more than ESPN does. (ESPN has a ton of pro and college winter sports inventory and won't pay up for an additional bit of college basketball; the BTN has no pro sports inventory and gains great benefit from quality winter sports.) Given that the ACC has sold itself lock stock and barrel to ESPN, UConn isn't as valuable to them, because our quality sports aren't needed by ESPN. But UConn is extremely valuable to the B1G, for its basketball, multiple quality sports, domination of Connecticut, reach into New York and New England, and football potential.

What I'm saying is that, among the decision-makers I care about, Louisville's recent football success won't matter a damn. Think about it from the B1G's perspective. They would never in a million years consider Louisville, even if Louisville won a national championship in football, or ten national championships. They will consider UConn, even if our football team stays mediocre.
As usual pj very eloquently put !! I think the B1G knows what their product is and who they want to appeal to and tap into it because it theirs and Swoffys product is already bought and sold so take their marching orders from the eSpin who has more focus on their baby the SEC who if they pushed an ACCN it would be a drain on their SEC FB moneytree. Espin knows where their bread is buttered and leave the ACC with just enough of the margerine to keep them afloat!!
 
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