rehashing our ACC snub

[Macho Grande]

There's been a lot of different theories as to why Louisville beat us for the last realignment spot in the P5.

Heard Tom Jurich the other on the radio -- it was interesting hearing from the horse's mouth who helped Louisville get that last spot.

Some we've already spoken about: FSU, Clemson. No surprise there -- Southern schools culturally more of a fit with Louisville than UCONN.

The other specific people he thanked were the Syracuse AD and Duke AD: old friends of his from years back.

A couple of things struck me when I heard this: 1) Jurich plain and simple had been around for a lot longer than Manual, and had a larger set of connections and markers to call in. 2) While he didn't specifically name or speak about UCONN, he did say that he thought a big part of Louisville's selection was that it hadn't had any type of NCAA investigation/violation in any program during his 17 year stint at Louisville.

That suggests to me that UCONN couldn't have been in a worse position having been under the shadow of NCAA violations and an unproven rookie head coach during this selection process. I've heard a lot of people holding Warde Manual and Susan Herbst to the fire due to their performance during those 12 days of realignment jockeying. But UCONN's probation wasn't their fault. Calhoun couldn't have lost the reigns of our signature program at a worse time. I realize he didn't have any idea that this was going to play out this way, but let's also realize that there is a lot of blame that can be spread around.

 

[uconndogs]

Jericho is the man right now. But, he put Petrino back in charge of that football program and I would not be surprised if that came back yo bite him right in the fanny.

 

[Point6]

What really stings me every time I hear it is that Syracuse did not support us. I thought of them as our biggest rival at the time and would have expected some mutual respect.

 

[uconnell]

Maybe no violations or probation but LCC coaches sure more than made up for that with their ,ahem, misadventures.

 

[Dooley]

So let me get this straight: Syracuse and Duke compromised their academic integrity by backing LCC's invitation into the ACC because of a silly APR metric?? If the APR had any near the kind of validity that we've all been told it does, then we would have seen Oklahoma State football given postseason ban in 2014. Instead, they got a slap on the wrist with a 1 practice per week reduction. The APR is a joke and, not only that, it was retroactively applied to UCONN by a disgruntled ex-UCONN Chancellor still sore for being blamed mismanaging the UCONN 2000 campus expansion project.

Sorry, but saying that the APR ban, a metric that supposedly measures academics, was a reason for snubbing UCONN and then backing a "school" with the horrendous academic reputation of LCC just doesn't add up.

 

[NickyNewark]

I wonder why california Daryl Gross or whoever deserved a thanks from Jurich? And wasnt their old bad blood between former metro mates FSU and L'ville...if they were able to bury the hatchet why couldnt BC/Cuse see the value of a stronger eastern wing of the ACC with a UConn add? Order and respect could have been maintained by Tobacco road if they had called FSU's bluff who were'nt really going anywhere but instead they caved to their everlasting shame IMO. They gave away the hammer of respect in their scrambling panic to appease a bluff by a FB school and a couple of crying NE privates!! Then throw in ND and you've got a divided conference down the line !! Not ND's fault but the decisions by a visionless leadership will be slowly showing the negative effects for years.

 

[specialisthusky]

Wasn't Louisville football hit with apr sanctions one year before UConn? He is likely referring to our friend Nate.

 

[B1GEast]

Meh, personally I think the lawsuit was the biggest thing that hurt Uconn, and coach PP was the second biggest reason. We flat out stunk in football at the wrong time, had this heppend during FHC RE tenure when we were respectable, we may have had a better shot.

It was the perfect storm, but in the end, if we go to the B1G, it would all be worth it.

 

[UConnDan97]

Uggh. Here we go again.

When you can't figure out what the true answer is, you can usually follow the money. I hate to say it, but the Ville's athletic department is a bigger revenue draw (currently!) than ours is. It's not by leaps and bounds, but it's bigger (not sure if this link is up to date, but):

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/schools/finances/

So by all means, continue to hash out ideas about the effects of knowing the AD at SyraDuke, or the effects of the lawsuit, or of the APR controversy. I'll stick with Occam's razor, and I'll follow the money...

 

[upstater]

Uggh. Here we go again.

When you can't figure out what the true answer is, you can usually follow the money. I hate to say it, but the Ville's athletic department is a bigger revenue draw (currently!) than ours is. It's not by leaps and bounds, but it's bigger (not sure if this link is up to date, but):

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/schools/finances/

So by all means, continue to hash out ideas about the effects of knowing the AD at SyraDuke, or the effects of the lawsuit, or of the APR controversy. I'll stick with Occam's razor, and I'll follow the money...

The ACC teams don't see any of that money. AND, you need to rewind a few years to see UConn ahead of Louisville in revenue until the Yum opened. The Yum was a sweetheart deal that takes money out of the taxpayer's pockets and gives it to he bball program. BUT, that money has nothing to do with the rest of the ACC. It stays in Louisville. AND, we don't know what the future holds for the Yum. Same thing might not occur in the future.

 

[UConnDan97]

The ACC teams don't see any of that money. AND, you need to rewind a few years to see UConn ahead of Louisville in revenue until the Yum opened. The Yum was a sweetheart deal that takes money out of the taxpayer's pockets and gives it to he bball program. BUT, that money has nothing to do with the rest of the ACC. It stays in Louisville. AND, we don't know what the future holds for the Yum. Same thing might not occur in the future.

First of all, I don't need to rewind anything. The Yum Center was in place prior to their invitation, so I'm not sure what your point is. And of course the ACC is going to see some of that money. They are going to see it at the very least indirectly, either through better ratings that improve their brand / negotiating power, or through their football strength of schedule that helps them secure higher paying bowl spots, or through other avenues that increase their membership's worth (ticket sales, etc.).

But I don't have to explain this stuff to anyone here (or at least, I shouldn't have to). I'm not fond of being put in the position of defending a choice that went against UConn. Suffice it to say that I think our upside is MUCH higher than the Ville from a monetary standpoint, regardless of whether or not the ACC felt that way. But they made their decision off of the current situation, where they saw at least a 20 million dollar difference in AD revenue and a large difference in current football product, and that's why we are where we are.

Feel free to believe anything else you want to believe...

 

[UConn990411]

What really stings me every time I hear it is that Syracuse did not support us. I thought of them as our biggest rival at the time and would have expected some mutual respect.

Like BC, Syracuse is hoping UConn will die on the vine.

Those nancies are terrified of competition.

 

[Pudge]

It's all true ...

1. YES. I think Calhoun's departure and the cloud that existed in that period made Louisville (more a hoop school than football - as Charlie Strong was still reasonably new & Kragthorpe was still in memory) a BETTER College Sports brand than UConn. There was a period that you could legitimately wonder what was the future in Storrs post-Calhoun. Whoooops. We seem to have gone into overdrive to solve that. Ollie trumps 15 others in our 7 year time frame. We are strong & will be competitive through the next big TV contract.

2. YES. The Yum Center and the Papa John improvements did impact that decision. Football Cardinals look bigtime as we were not really moving positively (and PP was a question mark from day one ... as would have been Whipple/McGee/etc ... we just were less of a good picture for the Football strength of the ACC conference). The Stadium issue was not nearly as big with the ACC than the B1G: look at BC or Syracuse or Miami. The B1G cares what the facilities and Capital budget for Athletics look like; the ACC like the buzz of a 50 year old brand like Cuse.

3. YES. None of the stalwart BE peers have shown their friendship. Pitt? Nope. Syracuse? Darryl Gross is a punk & never understood how much UConn could raise their profile in this their home region. They'll suffer because they're divorced from the hoop roots that gave them a platform. It's not NC-centric. It is the BE profile that helps. Nationally ... a lot is gained; regionally ... they lose lose lose. Just not as connected. BC also was short-sighted. They have their branding in the Southern Catholic markets they desired: what does that do for you? They ARE more National since going to the ACC. They will strive not to be an also-ran in their ACC sports; they won't succeed.

4. YES. The APR and the Recruiting/Nochimsen was absurdly used against UConn at precisely a crucial time. Neither rank as oderous in the grand scheme of scandals in athletics. But ... we had a sniff at a bad time. Today> We are the HUNGRY HUSKIES & we have made our point. Ollie looks spectacular in the Student-Athlete mythology. Our Academics is improving dramatically.

5. YES. All that is going on at UConn exhibits that we are a work-in-progress to being one of the top National Publics. The Tech Park; a real Collegetown; better STEM; 6500 targeted increase in enrollment; Capital Improvements all over the system. This is not really going on at other Publics. We look spectacular in the overall playing field as an on the move University. Rutgers & Maryland, btw, both struggle. I would not get too down on this ... the CR has more to go.

6. YES. We are not a cultural fit with FSU and Clemson. If the Virginia friend bstimpy wants them, he can have them.

 

[uconndogs]

Could not agree more with #3.

Folks like GDF are not business people. They are beaurocrats looking to protect turf, not grow something. Very small minds.....visions.

 

[RegisteredUconn]

Could not agree more with #3.

Folks like GDF are not business people. They are beaurocrats looking to protect turf, not grow something. Very small minds.....visions.

They are certainly in the right conference then.

 

[upstater]

First of all, I don't need to rewind anything. The Yum Center was in place prior to their invitation, so I'm not sure what your point is. And of course the ACC is going to see some of that money. They are going to see it at the very least indirectly, either through better ratings that improve their brand / negotiating power, or through their football strength of schedule that helps them secure higher paying bowl spots, or through other avenues that increase their membership's worth (ticket sales, etc.).

But I don't have to explain this stuff to anyone here (or at least, I shouldn't have to). I'm not fond of being put in the position of defending a choice that went against UConn. Suffice it to say that I think our upside is MUCH higher than the Ville from a monetary standpoint, regardless of whether or not the ACC felt that way. But they made their decision off of the current situation, where they saw at least a 20 million dollar difference in AD revenue and a large difference in current football product, and that's why we are where we are.

Feel free to believe anything else you want to believe...

You need to rewind to see UConn ahead of Louisville in revenues right before the Yum opened.

These two schools were neck and neck in revenues just 3 years ago. At $60m.
At the time, UConn actually generated more in TV Rights and Licensing, and still does today (or until the ACC $$$ for Ville). In 2010, Louisville generated $12,600,500 in TV Rights and Licensing, while UConn generated $23,500,000. UConn is at $26m in TV rights right now.

The next year, the sweet heart deal at the Yum gave Louisville an extra $26m in revenue.

But as I said in my above post on this issue, we don't know what is going to happen with all the Yum lawsuits taking place right now. That revenue might disappear. The city of Louisville certainly can't afford it.

When you look at Louisville's stratospheric jump of $26m in revenue, only $3m of that jump came from sources other than the Yum. They went up $3m in TV rights from $12m.

And for the rest of the conference, it is much more interested in TV money/market rights, because that money shows media interest and branding power. That's what is shared. Ticket revenue as a result of the Yum is wildly in Louisville's favor. But that doesn't help the ACC at all.

 

[ZooCougar]

Louisville is sleaze. And with Miami and UNC going on the ACC has no shame. Yeah we would go over there in a heartbeat, but they are basically all scum over there.

 

[Pudge]

Louisville is sleaze. And with Miami and UNC going on the ACC has no shame. Yeah we would go over there in a heartbeat, but they are basically all scum over there.

Yup.

I agree. Why B1G? That is what UConn should aspire to. Big vibrant growth University, with a big push for research that dominates our region and internationally, and good solid commitment to athletics through all the sports. We are not of the same culture as Miami, Florida State, Clemson. And by now ... BC and Syracuse should make us vomit. It is about bringing in the money and growing that Gross Revenue line; but, there is so much more bandwidth for US in the B1G. And the Football is still better top to bottom than ACC.

 

[SyracuseMiami]

Like BC, Syracuse is hoping UConn will die on the vine.

Those nancies are terrified of competition.

I think it will be years before the truth comes out on who supported whom behind closed doors. Penn State for years thought Syracuse was one of the schools blocking them from the Big East, but turns out we were a supporter. I could be wrong but I suspect Syracuse was a supporter for UConn.

I bet it actually went something like this:
- D Gross: yes, we like UConn. Good regional rival. Great hoops. Close road trips.
-Swofford: Daryl, they dont have the votes. Florida State and Clemson want Louisville. What do you think.
- D Gross: yes, we like Louisville. Great basketball, up and coming athletic department, and we've enjoyed beating them in football recently.

All I am saying we dont know what was said, who supported whom, and the context in which it happend.

The Cuse isnt a bunch of nancies, nor are we afraid of UConn. Respected rival, yes, but not afraid.

 

[UConnDan97]

You need to rewind to see UConn ahead of Louisville in revenues right before the Yum opened.

These two schools were neck and neck in revenues just 3 years ago. At $60m.
At the time, UConn actually generated more in TV Rights and Licensing, and still does today (or until the ACC $ for Ville). In 2010, Louisville generated $12,600,500 in TV Rights and Licensing, while UConn generated $23,500,000. UConn is at $26m in TV rights right now.

The next year, the sweet heart deal at the Yum gave Louisville an extra $26m in revenue.

But as I said in my above post on this issue, we don't know what is going to happen with all the Yum lawsuits taking place right now. That revenue might disappear. The city of Louisville certainly can't afford it.

When you look at Louisville's stratospheric jump of $26m in revenue, only $3m of that jump came from sources other than the Yum. They went up $3m in TV rights from $12m.

And for the rest of the conference, it is much more interested in TV money/market rights, because that money shows media interest and branding power. That's what is shared. Ticket revenue as a result of the Yum is wildly in Louisville's favor. But that doesn't help the ACC at all.

When I said "ticket sales", I meant putting butts into the opponent's stadium due to the matchup. Not the revenue from the Yum.

Also, if what you're telling me is true, that UConn was 10 million dollars higher in tv revenue at the time of the decision than the Ville, then how was the Ville at 60 million in AD revenue prior to the Yum? In other words, show me the data that shows UConn was ahead of the Ville by 10 million at that time. If you show me that data, I'll rescind my comment about the money. But let me tell you that it would be the first that I'm hearing of it, which would mean that the Connecticut press has failed us miserably if true...

 

[upstater]

When I said "ticket sales", I meant putting butts into the opponent's stadium due to the matchup. Not the revenue from the Yum.

Also, if what you're telling me is true, that UConn was 10 million dollars higher in tv revenue at the time of the decision than the Ville, then how was the Ville at 60 million in AD revenue prior to the Yum? In other words, show me the data that shows UConn was ahead of the Ville by 10 million at that time. If you show me that data, I'll rescind my comment about the money. But let me tell you that it would be the first that I'm hearing of it, which would mean that the Connecticut press has failed us miserably if true...

Note: Louisville fans don't really travel for the regular season. They were non-existent for instance at the BET. They travel to bowl games, which isn't that hard when you're talking about a short drive (10 hours to Florida, 8 to new Orleans). USA Today finances...

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/schools/finances/

Pay close attention to the ticket revenue and contributions jump in 2011 for Louisville. They went up $25.5m in revenue in 2011, but the ticket sales and seat contributions skyrocketed $20m. All Yum money.

Louisville averaged $12-13m in tv rights/licensing for the 5 years prior to that.
UConn was at $15m-23m.

 

[CL82]

Uggh. Here we go again.

When you can't figure out what the true answer is, you can usually follow the money. I hate to say it, but the Ville's athletic department is a bigger revenue draw (currently!) than ours is. It's not by leaps and bounds, but it's bigger (not sure if this link is up to date, but):

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/schools/finances/

So by all means, continue to hash out ideas about the effects of knowing the AD at SyraDuke, or the effects of the lawsuit, or of the APR controversy. I'll stick with Occam's razor, and I'll follow the money...

So you are saying that we should convince Hartford to pay for an arena it can't afford so that UConn athletics looks more attractive fiscally? Good idea, unfortunately the Rock Cats beat us to it.

 

[06029]

Could not agree more with #3.

Folks like GDF are not business people. They are beaurocrats looking to protect turf, not grow something. Very small minds.....visions.

Yet BC is in the ACC and Uconn is in the AAC. How small minded was it being one of the first the move? And if the push was to be more national and to tap into Southern Catholics to help the university grow, and it is working , how was that small minded? GDF is/was petty and vindictive. He also let his big mouth cost him a job. But, he was not the driving force at BC behind the move.

 

[uconndogs]

Not even remotely related to the point. But, carry on......

 

[UConnDan97]

Note: Louisville fans don't really travel for the regular season. They were non-existent for instance at the BET.

Holy cow, I can't believe that I have to really spell out what I'm saying. When I said "ticket sales", I meant that a game in Florida State would attract more Florida State fans if the opponent was the Ville instead of UConn, just like our BYU game will attract more fans than the Temple game. I hope that's clear enough now...