Regarding the AAU

[NHUConnfan]

So as some of you know, I'm in doctoral work at IU. One of my minors is in higher education and I'm working closely with some professors who are really in the "know how" of how this whole academia thing works (the courses are quite fascinating)

Anyway, one of my classes the other day brought up the issue of the AAU in terms of accountability and what weight rankings truly hold in the higher education business. My professor, Director at the National Student Survey of Engagement, seemed pretty certain that the AAU wasn't really going to be adding anyone--but rather probably is going to become a more exclusive club as universities get pushed out. He mentioned that seemingly every university wants to be a research-extensive university these days and that's one of the things that is driving up education costs. Eventually, the model will change and many research universities will alter their focus. As a result, the AAU will be used as one measure of the top research universities that survive.

We all know about Nebraska being pushed out, but I didn't realize Syracuse was pushed out as well in 2011. (https://chronicle.com/article/Syracuse-U-Facing-a-Forced/127363/)

The point I'm trying to make is...I don't think the AAU will invite UConn. Though, I don't think this is important to an eventual invite in the B1G. I think you'll see over the next 10 or so years a few more schools pushed out as the AAU tries to reclaim the "creme de la creme" image of research institutions--and I think a few of the B1G schools are frankly on the chopping block if that's the case.

UConn is doing what it needs to do academically. If they maintain the same path, they're going to look like a great option to the B1G, AAU invite or not.

 

[UConnJim]

I disagree. Four universities have either left or been pushed out of the AAU: Clark University (1999), Catholic University (2002), Syracuse (2011), and Nebraska (2011), all for good reason as they did not meet the organization's requirements. Nebraska was the only one that was really contested. During this time period, four universities have been added: Texas A&M (2001), Stony Brook (2001), Georgia Tech (2010), and Boston University (2012).

Since the AAU added two schools in the last 3 or 4 years, it seems they are amenable to adding deserving schools.

As for schools being pushed out in the future, Indiana has a low ranking when it comes to research compared to other AAU schools. Perhaps this is why your professor is concerned.

 

[pj]

Indiana is ahead of UConn so if they are going to be pushed out, we'll have a really difficult time getting in.

I agree that AAU for UConn is not imminent. UConn will move up the rankings but there is a long lag, really the length of a faculty career (~40 years) is about how long it takes for a big move in the rankings, even if you make large investments in facilities and hiring. You really have to rebuild the infrastructure and turn over the faculty to make a dramatic move. UConn is making the investments but it still takes time. The geographic location is a problem, if the campus had better highway access and was contiguous to the health center / located in a more densely populated area there would be more synergies.

I also agree that the AAU is not looking to expand membership. Just like the P5 want to shrink the athletics pool in a cartel arrangement to increase money, the AAU will look to shrink the research community to hoard more of the funds to themselves. If UConn brought some unique marketing advantage, that would help, but the presence of Yale in Connecticut means the AAU already has purchase on Connecticut politicians.

One thing that does work in UConn's favor is that as federal research funding ceases to grow, the AAU may start to emphasize other sources of funding. With strong state support and proximity to wealthy potential donors, UConn is well placed to take advantage of such a shift.

 

[okielite]

I would not hold my breath on getting AAU status. There are piles of schools trying to do the same thing but the reality is that few if any will make it as what the OP mentioned about membership getting smaller instead of bigger has been said over and over.

http://chronicle.com/article/As-AAU-Admits-Georgia-Tech-to/65200/


Research heavyweights that can make good arguments for joining the AAU include, but are hardly limited to, Boston University, Dartmouth College, Louisiana State University at Baton Rouge, North Carolina State University, the University of Cincinnati, the University of Georgia, and the University of Miami. Officials at several of those institutions acknowledge that they would like to join the club.

 

[NHUConnfan]

I disagree. Four universities have either left or been pushed out of the AAU: Clark University (1999), Catholic University (2002), Syracuse (2011), and Nebraska (2011), all for good reason as they did not meet the organization's requirements. Nebraska was the only one that was really contested. During this time period, four universities have been added: Texas A&M (2001), Stony Brook (2001), Georgia Tech (2010), and Boston University (2012).

Since the AAU added two schools in the last 3 or 4 years, it seems they are amenable to adding deserving schools.

As for schools being pushed out in the future, Indiana has a low ranking when it comes to research compared to other AAU schools. Perhaps this is why your professor is concerned.

My professor has little allegiance to IU. He's a researcher first and hasn't taught for very long. He comes across as a general advocate for higher ed (see Directer of NSSE) and not particularly loyal to one school (though he has mentioned his background at Stanford and Dartmouth several times.)

 

[NHUConnfan]

I would not hold my breath on getting AAU status. There are piles of schools trying to do the same thing but the reality is that few if any will make it as what the OP mentioned about membership getting smaller instead of bigger has been said over and over.

http://chronicle.com/article/As-AAU-Admits-Georgia-Tech-to/65200/


Research heavyweights that can make good arguments for joining the AAU include, but are hardly limited to, Boston University, Dartmouth College, Louisiana State University at Baton Rouge, North Carolina State University, the University of Cincinnati, the University of Georgia, and the University of Miami. Officials at several of those institutions acknowledge that they would like to join the club.

And there are slews of others that desire to be in as well.

 

[okielite]

And there are slews of others that desire to be in as well.

Yep. Colorado State, OU, Houston, etc..

 

[UConnJim]

Indiana is ahead of UConn so if they are going to be pushed out, we'll have a really difficult time getting in.

I agree that AAU for UConn is not imminent. UConn will move up the rankings but there is a long lag, really the length of a faculty career (~40 years) is about how long it takes for a big move in the rankings, even if you make large investments in facilities and hiring. You really have to rebuild the infrastructure and turn over the faculty to make a dramatic move. UConn is making the investments but it still takes time. The geographic location is a problem, if the campus had better highway access and was contiguous to the health center / located in a more densely populated area there would be more synergies.

I also agree that the AAU is not looking to expand membership. Just like the P5 want to shrink the athletics pool in a cartel arrangement to increase money, the AAU will look to shrink the research community to hoard more of the funds to themselves. If UConn brought some unique marketing advantage, that would help, but the presence of Yale in Connecticut means the AAU already has purchase on Connecticut politicians.

One thing that does work in UConn's favor is that as federal research funding ceases to grow, the AAU may start to emphasize other sources of funding. With strong state support and proximity to wealthy potential donors, UConn is well placed to take advantage of such a shift.

Indiana is ahead of UConn? It depends if you include UConn's medical school or not.

Indiana: $157 million of research (2010)
UConn: $240 million of research, $131 million excluding medical school (2010)

 

[Dooley]

AAU status would be nice for UCONN's B1G resume, but I don't think it would be a complete deal breaker either. UCONN already measures favorably with AAU criteria: http://provost.uconn.edu/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/2012-November-7-Department-Head-Presentation.pdf. It's obvious that UCONN's academics are on par with any P5 conference. The faculty hiring initiative should also help, especially during a time when it seems that most other schools are downsizing...

UConn is also in the midst of an unprecedented faculty hiring period that would bring almost 300 new faculty to UConn, and it has been noticed by some important folks:

"The university's hiring strategy runs counter to what is happening at many universities and colleges around the country", according to Gwendolyn Bradley,senior program officer for the American Association of University Professors. "We haven't heard of any other large-scale hiring plans for largepublic universities or really anywhere," Bradley said. She noted that large public universities have been particularly hard-hit by the recession and tend to be cutting faculty rather than adding."

Academics will not be an issue for UCONN to get into the ACC or B1G. The bigger issues are the endowment being $330M (being addressed by the faculty hiring initiative and hiring the Emory fundraiser) and restoring football back to pre-Pasqualoni levels. Doubling our Spring Game attendance from 2013 is a decent start, although figuring out a way to get 20,000 fannies in the stands would have been better. Of course, we need the Rent to be sold out. Season tickets, mini plans, individual game tickets...whatever gets people into the stadium. I was encouraged to see a table set up for the Army game at Yankee Stadium at the Spring Game. Hopefully the marketing department gets really aggressive with that and we can pack the house. Remember, our measuring sticks are 35K for Fruit/USC and 40K for Army/RU. Selling out Yankee Stadium for Army/UCONN would go a long way to piggy back on the MSG home court advantage we showed in the tournament.

 

[woomba]

Not sure how research funding is driving up costs. I can think of several ways this happens (i.e. when many more students go into STEM which is costlier). But overall, half of the research money goes to the university for operations and thus keeps cost lower. The only time it drives up costs is when you're spending MORE money on research projects than what you take in.

My guess is that the professor is referring to the schools who are over-investing in infrastructure & personnel in their quest to get AAU status - not all of the investment is warranted and going to pay off.

There's a fun chart here that shows the schools that are on the chopping block - University of Oregon is probably the next public university that will lose AAU status.

 

[Limbo Land]

I don,t think aau is a deal breaker either since we do hold a research card only 3 others in the nation have... universitas 21. UVA and us have been part with michigan and Maryland just joining. No one else in the nation. Good stuff!

 

[woomba]

I don,t think aau is a deal breaker either since we do hold a research card only 3 others in the nation have... universitas 21. UVA and us have been part with michigan and Maryland just joining. No one else in the nation. Good stuff!

Michigan left Universitas 21 a few years back - Ohio State is a member though

 

[huskypantz]

There's a fun chart here that shows the schools that are on the chopping block - University of Oregon is probably the next public university that will lose AAU status.

2010 print date.

 

[woomba]

2010 print date.

Eh, the numbers are outdated but the schools that are at the highest risk of losing AAU is pretty accurate. Oregon actually has an initiative in place to try to keep its AAU status - there's a report here from last year if you're interested.

 

[pj]

Re Oregon, entertaining article here: http://www.uomatters.com/2013/05/uo-starts-substituting-carnegie-rank.html

 

[NHUConnfan]

No infrastructure, no personnel, no research grants. You have to make the investment if you want faculty to win grants.

One more thing, the link only shows fed research dollars. The AAU considers all competitive research grants that go through peer review. The link however shows non-peer reviewed money, but money that is allocated, and that is not part of the AAU formula. UBuffalo is listed there as having $157m in fed research, but the total amount of research (peer reviewed) is $350m.

His point was that there are too many schools are that are geared towards trying to become a research intensive university and thus diluting the university/college market. He wasn't talking about the schools you and I would know very readily. He was talking more about University of Illinois Chicago and other regional type campuses that quite honestly never will be a research intensive university. The costs it takes to hire faculty and build the facilities to host intensive research is quite costly, especially if one does not have a significant infrastructure in place.

 

[NHUConnfan]

The thing is, Illinois is a pretty big state, and they have no second public university. I take his point-of-view to mean we shouldn't invest as much in research overall, since clearly the demographics support more research institutions. Schools are not expanding their size.

How does the demographics support more research institutions when there is literally an impending cliff for the number of college applications to be sent in the upcoming decade?

 

[Drew]

if i remember correctly part of the reason nebraska got kicked out was because their med school is in omaha and those dollars didnt count towards their research earnings

 

[Yawkey Way]

There is not a single TV network executive in America that is concerned with a school's " Academics "

For example, as an " Academic exercise " one could line up all the teams in the P5 Conferences( as well as every other FBS school conferences for that matter ), spend 5 minutes looking at the teams in each conference, and readily conclude from such an exercise that a school's " Academics " has not a shred of import whatsoever as to who are in all these leagues.

 

[NHUConnfan]

We're seeing massive overcrowding in the CCs. Schools haven't adapted to demographics in decades. The smaller # of grads over the next decade is not going to change the situation. California in particular is absolutely jampacked to the gills.

The solution to overcrowded community colleges is not more research institutions. It is more community colleges. And frankly we need more...a lot more.

You can rightfully blame states for that. Indiana pretty much disallowed CCs to form (public ones) until someone realized there was money to be had in a private CC system...now the second largest college system in Indiana.

 

[upstater]

The solution to overcrowded community colleges is not more research institutions. It is more community colleges. And frankly we need more...a lot more.

You can rightfully blame states for that. Indiana pretty much disallowed CCs to form (public ones) until someone realized there was money to be had in a private CC system...now the second largest college system in Indiana.

When we looked at the cohort at the community colleges, we saw kids with high SATs and high school grades there. As much as people want to say we are pushing kids to college who don't want to go, the research we're looking at shows the exact opposite. There are high performing kids who would do well in a research setting but the lack of support for college is sending them to CCs. CCs should be there to prepare kids who are not quite prepared for a 4 year institution. They shouldn't be used as substitutes to the extent they are now. I'm pretty confident that even in the face of the coming demographic shift, we could greatly increase the size of enrollment in universities without much falloff in the quality of student. The only thing holding us back is administrative fear of the USNWR.

 

[greenday61892]

I would disagree on the notion in your original post that UConn isn't among the "creme de la creme" of research institutions. My mom is on the faculty of the sociology department there and the research aspect of the university has been on the rise since she got there 25 years ago and is STILL on the rise to this day. Also, on this wikipedia page, UConn is listed under "very high research activity". I would not rule out AAU membership in the future at ALL.

 

[Stray_Dog]

When we looked at the cohort at the community colleges, we saw kids with high SATs and high school grades there. As much as people want to say we are pushing kids to college who don't want to go, the research we're looking at shows the exact opposite. There are high performing kids who would do well in a research setting but the lack of support for college is sending them to CCs. CCs should be there to prepare kids who are not quite prepared for a 4 year institution. They shouldn't be used as substitutes to the extent they are now. I'm pretty confident that even in the face of the coming demographic shift, we could greatly increase the size of enrollment in universities without much falloff in the quality of student. The only thing holding us back is administrative fear of the USNWR.

I think CC's offer something that the state Universities can't. A major discount for their first two years of schools. In fact what a student saves is likely not having to take out student loans for their first two years. This allows parents to save more money for when the student transfers to the state college. Add in the fact that most kids going to CC's are able to commute and do not need to find local housing or on campus housing. Then factor what the students major might be. If when you leave a state college/university after four years for a job that doesn't pay 40K, statistically you are better off not having gone - from a purely financial stand point. And what student adviser is going to discuss with their freshman students - their earning potential prospects. In fact here is a philosophy I think the universities share with big business - we like our employees/students smart but NOT that smart! So my point is that if the private sector is only going to pay "X" for an employee with specific training/knowledge within Field "Y", then the school should be charging "N" amount. In other words, I think a better model for student tuition rates should be based with an added variable of average earning potential. And with the schools offering business and math degrees, they should certainly be able to evaluate that potential based on where they are getting their degree from. Truthfully, state colleges and universities are losing money to the CC's as wise students know that they do not need to list to the CC they attended when it only matters where they graduated from. Until your colleges and universities address the high cost of tuition for students during their freshman and sophomore years, I suspect the current enrollment trend to continue. This is just my two cents and I would need to really examine the data but I did recall reading an article about 4 year students from universities with the average attendance cost with the average student loan rate that a kid with a high-school degree may actual out earn over their lifetime the student that went to college. Therefore, one should really ask the student, what is your learning passion worth to you? Will you be comfortable doing something you love but with little to no financial reward. Artists, play-writes, musicians, and even athletes understand this passion for when they go to school many realize the importance of having a degree to fall back on. But what is the purpose of that degree for you to fall back on, if it doesn't let you earn the freedom through dollars to leave your parents house.

 

[pj]

I would disagree on the notion in your original post that UConn isn't among the "creme de la creme" of research institutions. My mom is on the faculty of the sociology department there and the research aspect of the university has been on the rise since she got there 25 years ago and is STILL on the rise to this day. Also, on this wikipedia page, UConn is listed under "very high research activity". I would not rule out AAU membership in the future at ALL.

The Carnegie VHRA classification has 108 universities, AAU is about 62 and they're not looking to expand. It's nice to be in the top 108 but it doesn't mean we can easily get into the top 62. Unfortunately it's hard to tell online how UConn ranks in the metrics the AAU uses. We are probably ahead of the bottom few AAU schools but behind maybe 10 to 20 non-AAU schools, maybe more depending on what the criteria are.

 

[FAIRTIDES]

The Carnegie VHRA classification has 108 universities, AAU is about 62 and they're not looking to expand. It's nice to be in the top 108 but it doesn't mean we can easily get into the top 62. Unfortunately it's hard to tell online how UConn ranks in the metrics the AAU uses. We are probably ahead of the bottom few AAU schools but behind maybe 10 to 20 non-AAU schools, maybe more depending on what the criteria are.

I believe "Upstater," on a number of occasions, has indicated that UCONN's Carnegie Tier-1 classification was subject to a more severe investigative/evaluation process than AAU provides; at least I think that's what he wrote. If that's the case are the AAU academics the only ones' touting AAU over Carnegie, and is that because AAU is a financial consortium while Carnegie is a rating based on a stringent evaluation?