Reflecting on Dave Gavitt's vision and UCONN's place in it.

[Carl Spackler]

Just a quick reflection - by my standards.

In the late 1970s the intercollegiate landscape was changing - around football of course. Division 1 was split into 1A and 1AA. There was a lot of turmoil. Out of that, the leadership of a bunch of small, private, catholic colleges located in the northeast corridor decided that they wanted to form a basketball conference. Now - the northeast corridor is the most populated region in the country and the most powerful media markets. Makes sense.

Now - why would a small, land grant public, cow college in rural CT be included. What could a small public state land grant cow college in rural CT have in common with small, private, catholic schools in urban centers?

Could it be the northeast market and it's potential?

Obviously.

The people back then had the foresight to know that UCONN had the potential to be what it is now, that's what a school like UCONN had in common - location, location, location.

That UCONN has grown to what it is in the past 30 years, is the reason why petty people at schools like Syracuse and Boston College for example, who used to feel much more important, will do anything it seems, including damaging their own markets and followings to try to knock UCONN down and exclude UCONN, rather than follow through .

The visionary creator of the Big East conference, saw the potential and knew what UCONN means to the Northeast market.

I would hope that the leaders in intercollegiate world in the current century, would learn from the past, and also realize this.

It is nothing more than fear and loathing from the very few at small, private, colleges that has kept UCONN out. They need to be outnumberd.

 

[History Geek]

My u derstanding is that UConn was asked after holy cross said no. Is that true? How did it all go down back then?

 

[Carl Spackler]

My u derstanding is that UConn was asked after holy cross said no. Is that true? How did it all go down back then?

Yes.

In spring of 1978 the AD's at Georgetown, Providence, St. John's and Syracuse held meetings regarding the new rules and regulations around sports and scheduling. Independant programs, were not going to have the same access to post season tournament in basketball, that conference champions would. THe concept of a new confernece was floated. (ESPN was founded in summer of 1978). New conferences were showing up around hte country. Boston College, Rutgers and Holy Cross were asked to join Gtown, Providence, Cuse and St. Johns. Others were considered - UMass, Boston University - but not asked. All 3 that were asked, for the same reasons essentially, that the Big10 added Maryland and Rutgers quite recently. Just different media era - same media markets. Both Rutgers and Holy Cross declined, Boston College accepted. In a flip switch, Seton Hall became the catholic instituion to join in the Jersey, market while UCONN became the public university experiment to join instead of Rutgers and fit the market between NYC and Boston that was Holy Cross. UCONN - which in Storrs, CT did not exactly fit the profile, of an urban area directly - but smack dab in the middle of the entire region, was close enough. We joined. BIg EAst was incorporated in May of 1979, as a basketball only league - with Seton Hall, UConn, Boston College joining Gtown, Cuse, St. John's and the Friars as a 7 program basketball league and signed it's first contract with ESPN, giving ESPN it's first high volume sports property in the northeast corridor.

Joe Paterno - in 1982 wanted to form a northeast based division 1A athletic conference, and the big east fit. But the big east shot his effort down and excluded Penn State. PSU joined the big 10 in 1990.

If the folks in the big10 really want the northeast corridor - and do have interest in a conference of 1A level competition that owns the northeast corridor - UCONN is the final piece.

 

[HistoryMajor]

Carl - basically agree with everything in your post. In addition, Dee Rowe was a close friend of Dave G and aside from (or in addition to) your comments, I've always felt Rowe's relationship with Gavitt was a major reason for UCONN getting invited to the Big East. When I lived in CT I knew Dee fairly well but not quite well enough to ask him if my hypothesis was correct.

 

[Carl Spackler]

Carl - basically agree with everything in your post. In addition, Dee Rowe was a close friend of Dave G and aside from (or in addition to) your comments, I've always felt Rowe's relationship with Gavitt was a major reason for UCONN getting invited to the Big East. When I lived in CT I knew Dee fairly well but not quite well enough to ask him if my hypothesis was correct.

Toner was the AD at UCONN through all of this, and he had connections all over as well. Toner, to my knowledge, was a proponent of the split of division 1 athletics into 1A and 1AA and wanted UCONN in the 1-AA category in football. In the same 1978-1979 time frame, the Yankee conference went 1-AA in football, with our football program at the same time as Toner took the men's basketball program out of that conference, and put it into division 1 with the newly formed BIg East. As soon as Lew Perkins took over from Toner, he began working on the project of upgrading football to 1A.

If I'm not mistaken, the first and maybe the first 2 or 3 Big East men's b-ball tourneys were held in Hartford, before they got the deal at MSG.

Anyway - it's a nice trip down memory lane. We are now a division 1A athletic department and have been for 14 years or so now - and if Joe Paterno's vision of division 1A conference is ever to replace Dave Gavitt's vision of a northeast corridor big time athletics conference - UCONN should be in it.

 

[Adios]

13-0.

Now if we can translate a football season into such a record...

 

[Adios]

Anyway - it's a nice trip down memory lane. We are now a division 1A athletic department and have been for 14 years or so now - and if Joe Paterno's vision of division 1A conference is ever to replace Dave Gavitt's vision of a northeast corridor big time athletics conference - UCONN should be in it.

Have to wonder if delaying the football side of the conference actually benefited us.

 

[Carl Spackler]

It's all fun and games, but the reality is that our current conference is the American Athletic Conference.

THis conference by all signs and info gathered possible, has been strung together based on some decent fundamental aspects of building an athletic conference. It has the potential to grow, from literally nothing, just like the Big East did.

It would be nice, to see the good vision that Joe Paterno had, of a northeast based conference or regional athletic departments that encompassed all intercollegiate athletics at the highest level come to fruition - and UCONN would definitely need to be part of that for it to ever happen. But until UCONN is invited to join such a thing, which the Big10 is closest to having as of now - it's just fantasy.

The reality is the American AThletic Conference, adn like the Big EAst - we got to build it up from nothing as a group of institutions.

It's not like UCONN hasn't done it before. You know - win championships, help build and maintain entire athletic conferences to the peak of intercollegiate sports.

been there done that. Will do it again.

 

[The Funster]

Am I a bad person for still wishing for what coulda, woulda and shoulda been?:

UConn
BC
Rutgers
Syracuse
Pitt
Penn State
Louisville
Cincy
WVU
VTech

 

[Palatine]

By 1978, UConn had demonstrated it owned an urban market, Hartford, playing before large crowds in the new Hartford Civic Center.

 

[Waquoit]

If I'm not mistaken, the first and maybe the first 2 or 3 Big East men's b-ball tourneys were held in Hartford, before they got the deal at MSG.

The 1st BET was in Providence, 2nd in Cuse, 3rd and last before the move to MSG was at the HCC.

I dispute the influence given to Toner and Dee Rowe. If it was all that, we wouldn't have been behind Cross and Rutgers in the pecking order. The true hero of the story is Corny Thompson. If he went to Virginia, he would have been the power forward Ralph Sampson never had and UConn would be in the A-10 today. This was a basketball league. How the hell could you keep out the program on the come? Corny led UConn to the ECAC championship as a freshman. Rhody was the power and UConn beat them so bad that Sly Williams spent the post-game in the UConn lockerroom saying he should have gone to UConn. UConn looked like a force for years to come. Dee Rowe had so much influence on Gavitt that PC would never play UConn.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

The biggest mistake made by the Big E was keeping Penn State out. The second was giving ND a ‘partial’ membership. If both had been in the Big East on a full-time basis by 2000, the basketball-only Catholic would still have left, maybe sooner than it happened; but, I can picture the Big E eating the ACC and not the other way around.

Original, 1980
1) Boston College, 2) Syracuse, 3) Pittsburgh, 4) Rutgers, 5) West Virginia
1991 Expansion
6) Penn State, 7) U Miami, 8) Florida State, 9) Virginia Tech
2000 Expansion
10) Notre Dame, 11) UConn, 12) Temple/Villanova
2012 Expansion
13) Maryland, 14) Virginia, 15) UNC, 16) Duke, 17) NC State, 18) Clemson, 19) Georgia Tech, 20) Louisville

Ah, Days of Future Past…

 

[Sea Goat]

Just a quick reflection - by my standards.

In the late 1970s the intercollegiate landscape was changing - around football of course. Division 1 was split into 1A and 1AA. There was a lot of turmoil. Out of that, the leadership of a bunch of small, private, catholic colleges located in the northeast corridor decided that they wanted to form a basketball conference. Now - the northeast corridor is the most populated region in the country and the most powerful media markets. Makes sense.

Now - why would a small, land grant public, cow college in rural CT be included. What could a small public state land grant cow college in rural CT have in common with small, private, catholic schools in urban centers?

Could it be the northeast market and it's potential?

Obviously.

The people back then had the foresight to know that UCONN had the potential to be what it is now, that's what a school like UCONN had in common - location, location, location.

That UCONN has grown to what it is in the past 30 years, is the reason why petty people at schools like Syracuse and Boston College for example, who used to feel much more important, will do anything it seems, including damaging their own markets and followings to try to knock UCONN down and exclude UCONN, rather than follow through .

The visionary creator of the Big East conference, saw the potential and knew what UCONN means to the Northeast market.

I would hope that the leaders in intercollegiate world in the current century, would learn from the past, and also realize this.

It is nothing more than fear and loathing from the very few at small, private, colleges that has kept UCONN out. They need to be outnumberd.

Especially Syracuse! Syracuse is envious of UConn for a number of reasons. First, we have eclipsed it academically and that gap will grow. Second, Syracuse is a very expensive, second tier private school costing about $65k/year. UConn at 1/3 the cost is a better school. How does Syracuse compete against UConn when it 3 times the cost and not as selective? Third, once UConn got going in the BE it eclipsed Syracuse in athletics. UConn started slowly in the BE, but ended up winning the most BB titles in BE history. Simply put, Syracuse will do what it can to keep UConn out of the ACC, because it doesn't want to be compared to us anymore.

 

[Stinger92860]

The 1st BET was in Providence, 2nd in Cuse, 3rd and last before the move to MSG was at the HCC.

I dispute the influence given to Toner and Dee Rowe. If it was all that, we wouldn't have been behind Cross and Rutgers in the pecking order. The true hero of the story is Corny Thompson. If he went to Virginia, he would have been the power forward Ralph Sampson never had and UConn would be in the A-10 today. This was a basketball league. How the hell could you keep out the program on the come? Corny led UConn to the ECAC championship as a freshman. Rhody was the power and UConn beat them so bad that Sly Williams spent the post-game in the UConn lockerroom saying he should have gone to UConn. UConn looked like a force for years to come. Dee Rowe had so much influence on Gavitt that PC would never play UConn.

Corny, McKay, Dulin, Chuck, etc. imagine if matthews, garris, barley, foster, pinone, oldynick, Luckette, etc, had joined him!

 

[Ldandy]

The biggest mistake made by the Big E was keeping Penn State out. The second was giving ND a ‘partial’ membership. If both had been in the Big East on a full-time basis by 2000, the basketball-only Catholic would still have left, maybe sooner than it happened; but, I can picture the Big E eating the ACC and not the other way around.

Original, 1980
1) Boston College, 2) Syracuse, 3) Pittsburgh, 4) Rutgers, 5) West Virginia
1991 Expansion
6) Penn State, 7) U Miami, 8) Florida State, 9) Virginia Tech
2000 Expansion
10) Notre Dame, 11) UConn, 12) Temple/Villanova
2012 Expansion
13) Maryland, 14) Virginia, 15) UNC, 16) Duke, 17) NC State, 18) Clemson, 19) Georgia Tech, 20) Louisville

Ah, Days of Future Past…

Personally I'm glad that PSU was left out of the original Big East. I absolutely loathed the Frankenstien's Monster conglomeration of bigger state schools carrying the dead weight of tiny Catholic Privates.

Schools that are barely relevant in even one sport like Gtown, Nova, Providence and St. Johns have no place in major college sports. I still like the idea of an all Eastern League, and could live with privates if they were the right athletic profile. The Catholic Privates were leeches feeding off a sickly host.

If prior to Penn State joining The B1G in 1991, the Northeast Majors of the Big East could have came to their senses and thrown off the yokes of oppression placed on them by tiny private Catholic Schools, there could have been something real and legit founded. A conference that IMO would have been around today and viewed as a P5 Conference.