Recruiting: help me understand why UCONN doesn't get more 5s & 4s | Page 2 | The Boneyard

Recruiting: help me understand why UCONN doesn't get more 5s & 4s

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Our coaching staff has a nasty habit of making recruiting too complicated. They get wrapped up in all these "other factors" they have convinced themselves make a difference, rather than just concentrating on the one thing that truly matters: the number of stars next to the name. This is a big part of why we have failed to win the NC in 12 of the past 16 seasons. Bums, all of them!
 

David 76

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I figured when I posted that I would get my fair share of the quick to pick a fight folks. I thank the people that have something to add to the conversation.
The others are sad. I'm not questioning KOs recruiting. I think he was amazing given the transitions. And I'm certainly not questioning our team. I am saying that we should be up with Duke & KY and ahead of Kansas, AZ & UNC when top kids are deciding where to go.
 
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I figured when I posted that I would get my fair share of the quick to pick a fight folks. I thank the people that have something to add to the conversation.
The others are sad. I'm not questioning KOs recruiting. I think he was amazing given the transitions. And I'm certainly not questioning our team. I am saying that we should be up with Duke & KY and ahead of Kansas, AZ & UNC when top kids are deciding where to go.
I'm not sure it's reasonable that we'd be ahead of UNC or Kansas. And Arizona is in a warm climate with enticing...uh...ancillary benefits?...and so they'll always be able to compete.

I think we'll be fine, but I don't think your question was wholly out of line. What we do with the players we do reel in is immaterial to the question of why we miss players we so clearly wanted. While we've won recruiting battles for great players like Rudy Gay, DeAndre Daniels, Roscoe Smith and others--and all recruiting is filled with losses--we do seem to miss out on our first options more often than a number of other top schools.
 

nelsonmuntz

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When I first read the post, I thought the OP was talking about Centers and Power Forwards. I had actually drafted a response that was pointing out until 2009 UConn had a dominant or at least an NBA bound center for most of the prior 16 years. Then I realized he was talking about recruiting stars.

Calhoun was the master of finding that kid that was on the verge of breaking out. There were a lot of Shabazz Napier type recruits, where Calhoun got in on an unranked recruit when there were just a couple of offers, and by the time the player committed he was sitting on 12-15 scholarship offers. It will be interesting to see if Ollie can keep it up.
 

babysheep

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When I first read the post, I thought the OP was talking about Centers and Power Forwards. I had actually drafted a response that was pointing out until 2009 UConn had a dominant or at least an NBA bound center for most of the prior 16 years. Then I realized he was talking about recruiting stars.

Calhoun was the master of finding that kid that was on the verge of breaking out. There were a lot of Shabazz Napier type recruits, where Calhoun got in on an unranked recruit when there were just a couple of offers, and by the time the player committed he was sitting on 12-15 scholarship offers. It will be interesting to see if Ollie can keep it up.
We already got TS and Turtle
 

SubbaBub

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This is very easy. Calhoun trusted his own eye above all. He also wanted "his guys" tough guys, fighters. He had little use for AAU prima donnas.

It worked out pretty well.
 
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Quite frankly how many 4s and 5s come out of New England? We don't have a lot of local talent until recently and all of those kids had UConn on their list. But, the majority of these kids are coming out of Chicago, LA, and down South. Many of them are not that familiar with Uconn and see it as the cold place far away.
New York and Boston are in our recruiting back yard.
 

Huskyforlife

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We'll one, we get plenty of 4 stars. And two, that's how you end up with kids like shabazz
 
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Threads like these make me wanna *facepalm*.

UConn over the years has gotten their fair share of highly rated and skilled kids. Sometimes the recruiting service's rankings reflect that fact and sometimes they don't. In Calhoun's heyday, a lot of these coddled wannabe superstar kids probably didn't like the prospect of going to play for a coach who would actually, you know, push them to become their best. Other times, some of these kids would recognize that that was exactly what they needed.

Another factor here is that once some of these kids do commit to the "name" schools (i.e. Duke, Kentucky, Kansas, etc.) the kid in question would get a rankings bump and would become more likely to be named a McD's AA. All of that is just a big circle jerk of promotion to keep the profile of schools the networks think will get them ratings as high as possible. Take our incoming 5* Daniel Hamilton for example, most recruiting services have him listed as a top 15-20 player, I guarantee if he had commited to an Arizona or a Duke that he'd have been named to that team.

Lastly, as TCF so succinctly outlined, all those other issues surrounding conference affiliation, our former coach, and our school's sanctions likely conspired to keep us off the lists of a fair number of quality prospects who otherwise might have more strongly considered us.

But fear not, the future is bright indeed.
 
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Dear OP,
If you replaced "5s & 4s" with "National Championships" in your title thread, would you really give a damn?

Sincerely,
Reality
 

David 76

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I'm not sure it's reasonable that we'd be ahead of UNC or Kansas..

I know that the experts would agree with you. But I don't. UNC has not won Championships like we have lately. They have an academic scandal. Why aren't we ahead of them? Tradition? Kansas has been incredibly consistent. But they haven't won a whole lot of NCs. And they have to sell kids on moving to KANSAS!
I appreciate your post but at this point, I think we've learned to feel inferior to these Blue Blood teams and I'm tired of it
 
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I think UCONN is a national powerhouse equal to anyone. We are the dominant championship team over the past 15 years. So why do the top 10 recruits repeatedly go to KY, Duke, UNC. Kansas and even AZ.

I understand we don't focus on one-and-dones and I understand why. I love the way we find great value in 3 star players (and off the radar players) and are great at developing those players. I understand and appreciate a true team concept.

But that aside, why are most of those kids keeping us on their short list? We've won more championships, have a Coach who is a charisma magnet, and a dozen NBA players. I know the conference is a part of it and that we had a coaching transition and a recent sanction. But this seemed to be going on when we were still ruling the BE with a long-time coach.

But every year KY gets about 5 top ten players, Duke, UNC, & Kansas divide up the rest with an occasional player not going to those top 4 colleges. I don't want to be KY, but I just don't get it.
Good and interesting question. I understand you are not complaining but just curious. Why people have completely misunderstood your question is beyond me? I have always wondered how come when we go head to head with Duke, Kentucky, UNC, etc we usually lose. I consider us on par or better than those schools. But in the end it has worked out for us.
 
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I actually like getting the 3-low 4* players with upside. For exactly the reason you state (one and done), I enjoy getting to know these players, watching them develop and ultimately win a National Championship. Recruiting like Kentucky is like playing craps or roulette. no one class (or roll) affects the next and the results one year are completely separate from the next years' results (i.e. Win the National Title in 2012, not even make the Tournament in 2013, return to the Final 4 in 2014. At least if a player stays for a couple, two/tree years, they can at least plug holes.
The bold was actually Calhoun's preference for most of his time at UCONN. He spoke about it on several occasions at various events. He wanted players who had a big upside and room to develop.
 
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actually, they don't / didn't want to play for Jim Calhoun. They want promises, they want freedom, they want to be pampered, they don't want to be yanked out of games, they want a lot of playing time

hence they go somewhere else. I'm not knocking my man one iota, I wouldn't want it any other way

Ollie came in with a lot of uncertainties. Those uncertainties are melting away and I suspect more top 10 recruits will come his way
+1

I think you are exactly right on BOTH accounts.
 
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In terms of Top 10 recruits, I think a lot if had to do with Calhoun. Those types of kids (huge egos, pampered, questionable work ethic, prima donnas, over-inflated sense of self-worth, etc) want a player's coach, not some old-school screamer like Calhoun. We'll see how Ollie fairs with heavyweight recruits soon enough.
 
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I suppose it's a legitimate question, but in my opinion people put way too much stock in getting multiple overall top 10 players every year when we get plenty of great 3-4-5 star recruits that keep bringing home the hardware, which is the whole point of recruiting players to begin with.

Some here seem to act like jilted lovers whenever a hyped-up superstar athlete picks a different school, as if "we're not pretty enough" and it's an indictment against the program that all of the Jabari Parkers, Andrew Wiggins and Julius Randles aren't banging down our door every year. In all honesty Duke, Kentucky, Kansas and UNC can go ahead and fill up on all of the top-flight recruits they want. Lately it's done nothing but set expectations sky-high only to end in heartbreak more often than not. Meanwhile our Shabazz Napiers, Niels Giffeys, Ryan Boatrights, Jeremy Lambs, and Phil Nolans keep winning rings.

The point of recruiting is to win championships, not the other way around.

I know that the experts would agree with you. But I don't. UNC has not won Championships like we have lately. They have an academic scandal. Why aren't we ahead of them? Tradition? Kansas has been incredibly consistent. But they haven't won a whole lot of NCs. And they have to sell kids on moving to KANSAS!
I appreciate your post but at this point, I think we've learned to feel inferior to these Blue Blood teams and I'm tired of it

In the past 20 years we're ahead of UNC in what counts. I don't think UCONN is inferior to the supposed "Blue Blood" teams at all.
 
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UCONN basketball facilities were some of the worst in the BE and not even close to what Duke, Kentucky and other schools have. Now that is about to change and I expect recruits will take notice. Hopefully UCONN starts to market our new BB facility. Invite media, open house etc. don't under estimate what our new facilities will due for recruiting!
 

whaler11

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Recruiting is a means to an end. If you are winning national championships clearly you are recruiting well enough.

It's like ending up with Kate Upton and saying you aren't happy with her middle school yearbook picture.
 
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Calhoun was on the outs with AAU programs and handlers. The most egregious case was BABC and Leo Papile. UConn had some difficulty
breaking into the NYC area, the players UConn was able to garner from that area with big reputations were those who didn't have ties to premier AAU programs. Taliek Brown played his AAU basketball in Houston. Ben Gordon stopped playing AAU ball. Emeka Okafor
played for a top AAU program in Houston coached by Josh Pastner's father. There were some problems there. Okafor was way undervalued;
he was a composite 99 in the rankings.

This was of course before the second championship. After winning the second championship; UConn was able to successfully more highly ranked players. Still UConn doesn't have a specific area which year in year has produced quality players who were successfully recruited
by UConn. One example of this is New Jersey; Andrew Bynum is the lone high profile recruit who opted for UConn. Calhoun actually
beat out UNC for him; of course he went directly into the NBA draft. Charlie Villaneuva went to prep school in NJ, but he was actually
from the Bronx. He is an example of another current; UConn got late signings where the primary school had something happen. Ben Gordon is another; Deandre Daniels is a more recent example as is Ryan Boatright.

We will have to see how recruiting under Coach Ollie plays out. Currently he is riding a crest of good publicity. Even this past fall
we were concerned that players were blowing UConn off. Rakim Lubin and Sam Casalle Jr. were way down the recruiting board.
Now UConn is in with some pretty high profile players for 2015. We have two verbals from UConn type players already. 2016
should be a very good year. Players are committing earlier than ever. The impact of the 2014 championship will be felt even more
strongly with that group of players.

Of course there are negatives; currently the single biggest negative is conference affiliation. Things could become worse on that front
by NCAA action. How the NBA plays the age limitation also will factor in the equation. I believe that the UConn staff can work harder
and smarter than virtually all the other programs; unfortunately they will need to just to stay at the top of college basketball.
 
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Exactly this. We are winning more than anyone else doing what we are doing. Period. End of discussion. You can say it's a valid question to ask why we don't do this or that, but the question is since we're winning more than anyone else doing what we are doing, why would you ask why we're not doing something differently? Because in most things in life, it's not just "if it's not broke don't fix it" -- it's why are you wasting your time discussing how you could fix it if it's working better than anyone else's version.

This is a college basketball message board in the off season, we're all wasting our time discussing things.

The OP asked an interesting question. He's not criticizing the staff, or saying he wishes things were different. He's just wondering why, with all of the success we have had, more players ranked by the recruiting services in the top ten in their class aren't clamoring to go to UConn like they are for some of the other premier programs.
 
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This is a college basketball message board in the off season, we're all wasting our time discussing things.

The OP asked an interesting question. He's not criticizing the staff, or saying he wishes things were different. He's just wondering why, with all of the success we have had, more players ranked by the recruiting services in the top ten in their class aren't clamoring to go to UConn like they are for some of the other premier programs.

I'll try one more time, as politely as I can. The interesting question is why UNC and Kansas and others don't copy our method of only playing lightly in the market for the Top 25 kids, since it is our method -- and not their method -- that is producing more championships. That is the point I -- and others before me I think -- were trying to make.

The answer to the original question, by the way, in my opinion, is that Calhoun wouldn't put up with the BS just because you were a star that other coaches would. And since the Burger AAs were coddled by high school coaches or they'd go elsewhere, and looked forward to playing in the NBA where if they were good enough they would be more powerful than their coaches, most players of that level simply made other choices.
 
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I figured when I posted that I would get my fair share of the quick to pick a fight folks. I thank the people that have something to add to the conversation.
The others are sad. I'm not questioning KOs recruiting. I think he was amazing given the transitions. And I'm certainly not questioning our team. I am saying that we should be up with Duke & KY and ahead of Kansas, AZ & UNC when top kids are deciding where to go.
The combo of weather, girls, and tradition is better at most if not all of those schools.

These are 18 year old dudes.
 
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