P5 wants to give extra benes.

[GemParty]

Read an article that said their forming their own subdivision. Unreal.

 

[GemParty]

Read an article that said their forming their own subdivision. Unreal.

Article. http://m.espn.go.com/extra/ncaa/story?storyId=10817368&src=desktop

 

[Adios]

Alabama is scared of being defeated by ULM again.

 

[The Funster]

"In the current model, presidents make decisions as members of the NCAA Board of Directors. The five conferences want more responsibility in the hands of their athletic administrators."

Yowsers

 

[Husky92]

I fluctuate between "Great! Shake up is what we need" to "We're doomed!"

I guess given the hoops mojo, doooooooomed isn't such a bad thing.....right?

 

[UCFBfan]

So where does ND fit in all this? They aren't in a conference for football. They going to be forced to join if they wanna be in the "club"?

 

[MSNDfan]

So where does ND fit in all this? They aren't in a conference for football. They going to be forced to join if they wanna be in the "club"?

We're not going to be forced to join anything. We are in the ACC already.

 

[Fairfield_1st]

We're not going to be forced to join anything. We are in the ACC already.

You are but not really, not 100% for football. I think it's a fair question to ask. Could ND get the ACCs spot in a BCS or is there special writing addressing this square peg? I'm interested to know how they fit in.

 

[Dooley]

I'm sure that the ACC will lobby hard for some sort of sweetheart inclusion of ND in all of this. Part time members shouldn't get the same perks as full time members but we are talking about Americas little darlings and a crooked system (NCAA). I'm sure they will be written in.

 

[UCFBfan]

I'm sure that the ACC will lobby hard for some sort of sweetheart inclusion of ND in all of this. Part time members shouldn't get the same perks as full time members but we are talking about Americas little darlings and a crooked system (NCAA). I'm sure they will be written in.

You see once this happens they open the door for why other schools not in a P5 conference should be allowed in as well. ND fans can say whatever B.S. they want but they are NOT in the ACC for football. So they are not in a P5 conference in that regard. It's not on their unis or their field so they aren't really a member. Don't really try to justify it ND fans because it's the truth. So I'd like to see how they justify letting them get into the "club" while excluding a UConn or BYU

 

[GemParty]

Why limited to 5? If other conferences like the American can afford it, will they be excluded? It's a bunch of crap.

 

[TerryD]

You see once this happens they open the door for why other schools not in a P5 conference should be allowed in as well. ND fans can say whatever B.S. they want but they are NOT in the ACC for football. So they are not in a P5 conference in that regard. It's not on their unis or their field so they aren't really a member. Don't really try to justify it ND fans because it's the truth. So I'd like to see how they justify letting them get into the "club" while excluding a UConn or BYU

I don't intend to "justify" it, because it is the truth. ND is not a member of any conference for football.

That said, there is no way that ND will be forced to join a football conference to be included (in my opinion).

I think that BYU can also get in the club as a football independent.

There will be 65 or so schools in the "club". Not every one of them will have to be playing football in a P5 conference to get in.

The criteria may be stadium capacity, attendance, athletic budget, etc....they will rig the criteria however necessary to fit those 65 schools in without it being "football playing P5 conference membership required".

 

[upstater]

I don't intend to "justify" it, because it is the truth. ND is not a member of any conference for football.

That said, there is no way that ND will be forced to join a football conference to be included (in my opinion).

I think that BYU can also get in the club as a football independent.

There will be 65 or so schools in the "club". Not every one of them will have to be playing football in a P5 conference to get in.

The criteria may be stadium capacity, attendance, athletic budget, etc....they will rig the criteria however necessary to fit those 65 schools in without it being "football playing P5 conference membership required".

Nope. That's not what they're doing. BYU is on the outside. There is no criteria. You are classified according to tier. BYU is either among the G5 or the smaller conferences (Big West) and it has absolutely no means of venturing inside the P5 line since all the regulations are formulated according to tiers.

ND does in fact present a weird anomaly in which a school's football program can remain outside the P5 conferences and yet the school overall is considered a P5. It's weird because a lot of these P5 schools play in other conferences for Olympic sports, and they can't simply leave the NCAA umbrella in total.

One quick way for the NCAA to really screw schools that play regional sports such as Lacrosse or Soccer (should the P5 leave the NCAA umbrella) is require these schools to participate across an array of D1 sports as they do now for most of D1.

So, what does BC and Michigan do with their hockey? What does Syracuse and Virginia do with their lacrosse? Can you have a hockey championship or Lacrosse championship among P5 schools? There are 6 B1G hockey schools, then BC. 7 schools does not a hockey division make. Lacrosse might be a little better off.

 

[OkaForPrez]

Why limited to 5? If other conferences like the American can afford it, will they be excluded? It's a bunch of crap.

Some of it will be optional by non P5 schools and of it wont. Here is some essential reading on the proposals:

http://www.csnbbs.com/thread-686730.html

 

[metsfan2323]

Nowhere in that article does it say any conference will be excluded if they want to participate. There is nothing new in that article at all.

The AAC intends to participate in the new division, Houston and Tulane aren't opening new stadiums for division 2 programs.

 

[bobbyinaz]

Nowhere in that article does it say any conference will be excluded if they want to participate. There is nothing new in that article at all.

The AAC intends to participate in the new division, Houston and Tulane aren't opening new stadiums for division 2 programs.

Of course the P5 are not going to say that they will exclude conferences. They will just structure it in a way that it will be virtually impossible for any of the G5 conferences, with limited money resources, to participate.

Something as simple as a $2000 stipend will cost close to $1MM per year to a school and that is if the stipend is only $2000. That is before any of the other expenses start to add up.

IMO, this is going to happen and we need to do everything we can to get to the P5 table as quickly as possible otherwise we become the best of the rest

 

[Stinger92860]

I don't intend to "justify" it, because it is the truth. ND is not a member of any conference for football.

That said, there is no way that ND will be forced to join a football conference to be included (in my opinion).

I think that BYU can also get in the club as a football independent.

There will be 65 or so schools in the "club". Not every one of them will have to be playing football in a P5 conference to get in.

The criteria may be stadium capacity, attendance, athletic budget, etc....they will rig the criteria however necessary to fit those 65 schools in without it being "football playing P5 conference membership required".

What happens if p5 schools don't meet those minimum requirements.

 

[AZHuskiePop]

Nope. That's not what they're doing. BYU is on the outside. There is no criteria. You are classified according to tier. BYU is either among the G5 or the smaller conferences (Big West) and it has absolutely no means of venturing inside the P5 line since all the regulations are formulated according to tiers.

ND does in fact present a weird anomaly in which a school's football program can remain outside the P5 conferences and yet the school overall is considered a P5. It's weird because a lot of these P5 schools play in other conferences for Olympic sports, and they can't simply leave the NCAA umbrella in total.

One quick way for the NCAA to really screw schools that play regional sports such as Lacrosse or Soccer (should the P5 leave the NCAA umbrella) is require these schools to participate across an array of D1 sports as they do now for most of D1.

So, what does BC and Michigan do with their hockey? What does Syracuse and Virginia do with their lacrosse? Can you have a hockey championship or Lacrosse championship among P5 schools? There are 6 B1G hockey schools, then BC. 7 schools does not a hockey division make. Lacrosse might be a little better off.

The P5 can 't have a viable BB tourny. They could go back to a 16 team format.
That would be interesting. They want all the football money but they aren't cutting their own throats. Of course greed can cause irrational behavior.

 

[Yawkey Way]

I. Part time members shouldn't get the same perks as full time members .

The AAC has accepted Navy as a part time, asociate member of their league starting in 2015. Their football program accepted for membership, but all their other sports declined an invite by the AAC schools vote. I have no idea if their part time membership , gives them full perks that full membership will allow, ( perhaps as you said, they shouldn't receive ) but in any event, Navy will be a part time ( called an" Associate" ) member only of the AAC in 2015

 

[upstater]

Nowhere in that article does it say any conference will be excluded if they want to participate. There is nothing new in that article at all.

The AAC intends to participate in the new division, Houston and Tulane aren't opening new stadiums for division 2 programs.

We went through this already in the other thread. The G5 have to get approval for certain changes having to do with time constraints, recruiting, # of coaches and support staff, transfer rules. The P5 don't need approval. That right there means the G5 can't simply choose to participate in the new rules. They need approval.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

I had a business school professor that was one of the top expert witnesses in the entire world in anti-trust litigation. He always said, "if you discuss price with your competitors, or try to divide the market, you will probably go to jail". I don't understand how the P5 can issue written proposals that would, with minor editing, be the lawsuit against them for anti-competitive behavior. And I am not just talking about civil litigation. This stuff is all criminal.

The track record of major sports in antitrust litigation is terrible to begin with. The sports usually lose. The BCS was formed out of a successful lawsuit against the NCAA. I predict there will be successful litigation against the P5 too.

 

[bobbyinaz]

I had a business school professor that was one of the top expert witnesses in the entire world in anti-trust litigation. He always said, "if you discuss price with your competitors, or try to divide the market, you will probably go to jail". I don't understand how the P5 can issue written proposals that would, with minor editing, be the lawsuit against them for anti-competitive behavior. And I am not just talking about civil litigation. This stuff is all criminal.

The track record of major sports in antitrust litigation is terrible to begin with. The sports usually lose. The BCS was formed out of a successful lawsuit against the NCAA. I predict there will be successful litigation against the P5 too.

There will not be any litigation because the NCAA member schools will vote by majority to allow the P5 conferences to do this. The vote doesn't need to be unanimous, just a majority.

While conferences like the AAC & MWC will push back, and most likely vote against it, the smaller football conferences, who will now get more money from the playoffs than they did in the past BCS era & hoops conferences like the Big East, MAAC etc. could care less as long as they get to keep the huge dollars that come from the basketball tournament. These schools, who make up the majority of the NCAA will vote yes

If the member NCAA schools vote for & pass this legislation there will be no grounds for litigation. Just because AAC or MWC schools don't agree with being excluded doesn't mean they have any standing to enter into litigation.

 

[upstater]

If the member NCAA schools vote for & pass this legislation there will be no grounds for litigation. Just because AAC or MWC schools don't agree with being excluded doesn't mean they have any standing to enter into litigation.

This doesn't make any sense to me. If a majority creates a monopolistic enterprise that violates anti-trust rules, they are subject to getting sued.

 

[bobbyinaz]

This doesn't make any sense to me. If a majority creates a monopolistic enterprise that violates anti-trust rules, they are subject to getting sued.

The membership is voting saying that these 5 Power conferences should have different rules.

At that point there is no anti-trust violation as the membership has said it is OK for the P5 to play by different rules.

The thing that makes this work for the P5 is that even though they are keeping the lions share of the playoff money the G5 & smaller conferences are still getting more than they have in the past. So in a sense they are saying "WE are generating all this money but WE are still sharing it with our fellow NCAA member schools".

 

[upstater]

The membership is voting saying that these 5 Power conferences should have different rules.

At that point there is no anti-trust violation as the membership has said it is OK for the P5 to play by different rules.

The thing that makes this work for the P5 is that even though they are keeping the lions share of the playoff money the G5 & smaller conferences are still getting more than they have in the past. So in a sense they are saying "WE are generating all this money but WE are still sharing it with our fellow NCAA member schools".

It's fine for the P5 to have different rules. The G5 should also have the right to have different rules--but they don't. And that's indefensible.