ot:U.N.C. Investigation Reveals ‘Shadow Curriculum’ to Help Athletes

[upstater]

There is a smoking gun in this report. And that's the presentation to the coaches. They basically described the shell game in a way which showed the athletic program was complicit. When Crowder was retiring, the coaches understood the implications. This is fraud. There is also an incentive system here for all these advisors.

 

[scotty0330]

This was during the dean smith era. Somehow he will escape any blame and still maintain his prestine reputation even though many of his stars were enrolled in these classes

 

[uchusky]

Could this be grounds for dismissal from AAU?

 

[dante]

Trolling the UNC boards and most of their fans are outraged at the media for including their basketball program in the scandal here's a few quote from their board..lol


"NEWS FLASH, our basketball program wasn't implicated or involved!

---------------------------------------------

news flash - yes it was. read the ******* report

the willful ignorance on this board today has been off the charts. anyone who thinks this is bringing immediate closure is being extraordinarily naive

---------------------------------------------

How can you say basketball was not "implicated or involved"? Certainly some of our basketball players benefited from these no-show classes. That is enough for a player to be ineligible and potentially cost us wins.

I don't see the fact that Roy didn't know about these issues as vindication for anything. This report stings, and is frankly more hurtful than I expected. Whether or not Dean, Roy, etc. knew about it or not, the fact is there was a fraud going on since the early 1990s. This sucks! I'm going to hear it non-stop from my Duke friends.

---------------------------------------------

Is taking an easy class a violation? Guess that's the question of the day as I've seen no evidence of any athlete being rewarded with grades for work he didn't turn in.

And I don't think your dook friends should have much to crow about seeing how they were accused of doing the exact same things years ago."


"i'm not outraged - i'm extremely disappointed and upset by the findings in the report. i'm surprised by how lightly some people here are taking the report, and doubly surprised that people think that this somehow is good news or clears our basketball program. read the report. i'm staring at it right now and on page 72 it notes that there were 167 basketball enrollments in the fraudulent classes under roy williams. thats a problem.

i'm looking at page 62, which says that fifteen men's basketball players had at least one semester in which the grade they received in the paper class pushed or kept their GPA above 2.0

you dont understand how badly i want to agree that there is nothing to see here. i have just been staring at this ******* report since 1pm and i am not seeing the green grass and blue skies that you are all seeing"

 

[superjohn]

Dean Smith and Roy Williams now share two things in common they are both grossly overrated and shady.

 

[uconnfan68]

There is no wiggle room here.

If Memphis had to return their final four because of Derrick Rose, North Carolina has to give back the 2005 title.

Now you will observe the difference Memphis and UNC to the NCAA.

 

[intlzncster]

Trolling the UNC boards and most of their fans are outraged at the media for including their basketball program in the scandal here's a few quote from their board..lol


"NEWS FLASH, our basketball program wasn't implicated or involved!

---------------------------------------------

news flash - yes it was. read the ******* report

the willful ignorance on this board today has been off the charts. anyone who thinks this is bringing immediate closure is being extraordinarily naive

---------------------------------------------

How can you say basketball was not "implicated or involved"? Certainly some of our basketball players benefited from these no-show classes. That is enough for a player to be ineligible and potentially cost us wins.

I don't see the fact that Roy didn't know about these issues as vindication for anything. This report stings, and is frankly more hurtful than I expected. Whether or not Dean, Roy, etc. knew about it or not, the fact is there was a fraud going on since the early 1990s. This sucks! I'm going to hear it non-stop from my Duke friends.

---------------------------------------------

Is taking an easy class a violation? Guess that's the question of the day as I've seen no evidence of any athlete being rewarded with grades for work he didn't turn in.

And I don't think your dook friends should have much to crow about seeing how they were accused of doing the exact same things years ago."


"i'm not outraged - i'm extremely disappointed and upset by the findings in the report. i'm surprised by how lightly some people here are taking the report, and doubly surprised that people think that this somehow is good news or clears our basketball program. read the report. i'm staring at it right now and on page 72 it notes that there were 167 basketball enrollments in the fraudulent classes under roy williams. thats a problem.

i'm looking at page 62, which says that fifteen men's basketball players had at least one semester in which the grade they received in the paper class pushed or kept their GPA above 2.0

you dont understand how badly i want to agree that there is nothing to see here. i have just been staring at this ******* report since 1pm and i am not seeing the green grass and blue skies that you are all seeing"

I'm pretty sure a couple of these people are mentally challenged.

Is taking an easy class a violation? Guess that's the question of the day as I've seen no evidence of any athlete being rewarded with grades for work he didn't turn in.​

If the guy read the report, and this was the conclusion he came too, then he's a duckckwit.

This sucks! I'm going to hear it non-stop from my Duke friends.​

I did love this guy though, cause I know that feeling.

i'm looking at page 62, which says that fifteen men's basketball players had at least one semester in which the grade they received in the paper class pushed or kept their GPA above 2.0​

This is the damning thing. Just not sure the NCAA will act.

 

[dsturdy5]

Back in the mid to late 1990s the introductory geology course at UConn had the nickname rocks for jocks because it was so easy. Right around then the department decided to make the course much more rigorous. Much to my surprise and to that of many of the football players in the course, it was just as hard for us as some other lab courses. See, UNC, that's what you can do to stay ahead of the game.

 

[selles]

Back in the mid to late 1990s the introductory geology course at UConn had the nickname rocks for jocks because it was so easy. Right around then the department decided to make the course much more rigorous. Much to my surprise and to that of many of the football players in the course, it was just as hard for us as some other lab courses. See, UNC, that's what you can do to stay ahead of the game.

Your joke kind of makes the point. Every school has rocks for jocks or physics for poets or similar courses in the humanities. Every athlete and every fraternity pledge knows what they are. And I'm sure every athletic department does too and helps direct athletes accordingly.

But what UNC did isn't even remotely close to that. To get an A or B in these 'courses' at UNC - a highly regarded school - all you had to do was write an introduction and a conclusion and fill in 25 pages worth of large font gibberish. Or, alternatively, you could have your tutor write a paper for you and get the same grade because the grader wasn't reading it anyway. That was it. No classes, no lectures, no nothing.

It's insane.

 

[Gfunk]

Does anybody remember what happened to the University of Minnesota & Clem Haskins? The academic fraud there was but a sand pebble compared to the sand box in Chapel Hill.

Mn had to vacate years of wins and a final four. Clem Haskins, a genuinely great guy, lost his job.

It will be a sad, sad outcome if UNC does not pay dearly for this totally shameful & fraudulent display, decades long mind you, of the worst kind of cheating I can think of since being a fan of college sports - which goes all the way back to Bama's goal line stand against PSU and Magic vs Bird on the telly.

 

[mauconnfan]

I won't hold my breath for the NCAA to do anything. They've turned their backs on the one's who write the checks before and will most likely be there for them again with a wrist slap!

 

[defaultroute]

Page 72 of the report:

Matt Doherty is a former Tar Heel player who went on to coach at the University of Notre Dame before being recruited to Chapel Hill as head coach in 2000. Doherty explained that upon assuming the coaching position, he inherited the academic support system developed by prior Coaches Dean Smith and Bill Guthridge. That system had academic oversight being handled by McSwain, the counselor with close ties to Debby Crowder. While he felt free to make significant changes to the rest of the team’s coaching and support staff, Doherty was told by Smith and Guthridge, who both had a continued presence on campus, that he should not change the academic support system. As a result, the McSwain-Crowder pipeline continued to operate, and there were 42 enrollments of men’s basketball players in paper classes during Doherty’s tenure.

So if Smith and Gutheridge knew about this and this goes back to 1993, they could lose the 1993 title, but the 2005 seems more likely.

 

[donyell34]

There will be disappointment's here when this gets washed away. Typical -justice is only for some and certainly not for others. Football might take a few-hits butt they won't mess with the basketball program.

 

[David 76]

UNC forced to vacate all of their football titles.

 

[Danzz]

Trolling the UNC boards and most of their fans are outraged at the media for including their basketball program in the scandal here's a few quote from their board..lol


"NEWS FLASH, our basketball program wasn't implicated or involved!

---------------------------------------------

news flash - yes it was. read the ******* report

the willful ignorance on this board today has been off the charts. anyone who thinks this is bringing immediate closure is being extraordinarily naive

---------------------------------------------

How can you say basketball was not "implicated or involved"? Certainly some of our basketball players benefited from these no-show classes. That is enough for a player to be ineligible and potentially cost us wins.

I don't see the fact that Roy didn't know about these issues as vindication for anything. This report stings, and is frankly more hurtful than I expected. Whether or not Dean, Roy, etc. knew about it or not, the fact is there was a fraud going on since the early 1990s. This sucks! I'm going to hear it non-stop from my Duke friends.

---------------------------------------------

Is taking an easy class a violation? Guess that's the question of the day as I've seen no evidence of any athlete being rewarded with grades for work he didn't turn in.

And I don't think your dook friends should have much to crow about seeing how they were accused of doing the exact same things years ago."


"i'm not outraged - i'm extremely disappointed and upset by the findings in the report. i'm surprised by how lightly some people here are taking the report, and doubly surprised that people think that this somehow is good news or clears our basketball program. read the report. i'm staring at it right now and on page 72 it notes that there were 167 basketball enrollments in the fraudulent classes under roy williams. thats a problem.

i'm looking at page 62, which says that fifteen men's basketball players had at least one semester in which the grade they received in the paper class pushed or kept their GPA above 2.0

you dont understand how badly i want to agree that there is nothing to see here. i have just been staring at this ******* report since 1pm and i am not seeing the green grass and blue skies that you are all seeing"

Basketball players also took these courses so they would also be complicit. The NCAA is going to have to come down hard on UNC whether they want to or not they want to. At the very least the players who took these courses would lose credit and that would effect their adjusted GPA maybe to the point that some would have been on academic probation but continued to play. Following this, it would mean that players who were not eligible played in 2005 and they should vacate that championship.
It is hard to know what the NCAA will do but they are going to have to do something severe or have their inconsistency become a target for the media.

 

[ctchamps]

Basketball players also took these courses so they would also be complicit. The NCAA is going to have to come down hard on UNC whether they want to or not they want to. At the very least the players who took these courses would lose credit and that would effect their adjusted GPA maybe to the point that some would have been on academic probation but continued to play. Following this, it would mean that players who were not eligible played in 2005 and they should vacate that championship.
It is hard to know what the NCAA will do but they are going to have to do something severe or have their inconsistency become a target for the media.

UNC and Syracuse are in trouble. There were Congressional hearings in April regarding how the NCAA dealt with academic fraud. The NCAA is in the spotlight.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/24/us/ncaa-academic-fraud/

 

[amory]

If I were an African American I'd be pretty pissed about this too.

Hmm, where can we dump all these fake classes so plagiarism and laziness can be accepted? How about African American Studies?

Rather offensive.

 

[Husky68]

Didn't an ex-basketball player claim he took these type of classes and his coaches "had to know" and all those other alumni claimed he was lying. Who looks like a liar now?

 

[ctchamps]

Didn't an ex-basketball player claim he took these type of classes and his coaches "had to know" and all those other alumni claimed he was lying. Who looks like a liar now?

Rashad McCants

 

[intlzncster]

I won't hold my breath for the NCAA to do anything. They've turned their backs on the one's who write the checks before and will most likely be there for them again with a wrist slap!

We need to start writing more checks I think.

 

[Gringo]

NCAA is going to drop the hammer down on UNC. It really has no choice. It's whole business model and the billions of dollars of yearly revenue it collects is predicated on a student athlete model where the "compensation" the athletes receive is their education. Former student-athletes are already suing the NCAA for using their likeness. What will happen to the NCAA if they don't punish schools who weren't even providing the education? This looks really bad for the NCAA and they have no choice but to come down hard. Check out the article below. Jay Bilas posted it to his twitter account. The most interesting part of the article this, "For example, 10 of the 15 members of Roy Williams’ 2005 national title team were AFAM majors."

http://www.foxsports.com/college-fo...al-wainstein-report-investigation-ncaa-102214

 

[Husky25]

If this happened in Storrs we would have gotten something along the lines of SMU's football death penalty but it would have ben extended for at least a decade. Normally the two titles they won fully within the time frame should be vacated (and their title in '93 should also be under scrutiny) but as the NCAA is very selective in who they punish I imagine Emmert will say something along the lines of "That UNC is actually require student athletes to attend class shows a dramatic improvement in their process. We believe that in being victim of such an elaborate plot the athletic department at UNC has been punished far more than what was warranted by these academic missteps. It is unfortunate that student athletes who merely wanted only to be athletes were able to take such severe advantage of a school as proud and forthright as UNC. No further action is necessary.".

"...Unnamed sources stated that Emmert not only expressed surprise at the breadth of the scandal and how it could be perpetrated for so long, he also expressed admiration for the faculty in Chapel Hill for their outside the box thinking to create such a scheme."

 

[Excalibur]

NCAA is going to drop the hammer down on UNC. It really has no choice. It's whole business model and the billions of dollars of yearly revenue it collects is predicated on a student athlete model where the "compensation" the athletes receive is their education. Former student-athletes are already suing the NCAA for using their likeness. What will happen to the NCAA if they don't punish schools who weren't even providing the education? This looks really bad for the NCAA and they have no choice but to come down hard. Check out the article below. Jay Bilas posted it to his twitter account. The most interesting part of the article this, "For example, 10 of the 15 members of Roy Williams’ 2005 national title team were AFAM majors."

http://www.foxsports.com/college-fo...al-wainstein-report-investigation-ncaa-102214

The NCAA will wait for the fervor over this story to pass, and then quietly issue minor penalties. There will be no vacating titles, no postseason ban. There will likely be a line about not wanting to hurt current players for past transgressions, and we will be left to note the irony in that statement.

 

[Husky25]

Back in the mid to late 1990s the introductory geology course at UConn had the nickname rocks for jocks because it was so easy. Right around then the department decided to make the course much more rigorous. Much to my surprise and to that of many of the football players in the course, it was just as hard for us as some other lab courses. See, UNC, that's what you can do to stay ahead of the game.

Even so, if a basketball player took basket weaving, he had to finish the gnikcvf basket, didn't he? Rip, Monquencio, and Rash Jones were in my Drama class (a requirement)in Fall '98. I saw them in the auditorium 3 times. The first day of school, the Mid-term, and the Final. They took the tests...

 

[Husky25]

So if Smith and Gutheridge knew about this and this goes back to 1993, they could lose the 1993 title, but the 2005 seems more likely.

What is keeping the 2009 Championship insulated?