OT- Tony Stewart

[Dave Carlson]

A lot of posters on this board know squat about racing so they misrepresent your observations as accusing a guy of murder or absolving the other driver of blame. See the patronizing bizarre analogies from our resident Clarence Darrow about driving a bike off a cliff. Is that your "go to" closing argument? Expected better. And then there's the "How could Tony Stewart have possibly expected the other guy to run towards his car?" Really!

Dave there are plenty of racing accidents. Accidents on a short track passing an accident scene are rare. They're under caution and drivers are usually extra careful because they know track workers and other drivers are on the track. Surprised you can't differentiate or choose to ignore that fact.



www.youtube.com/watch?v=mC8Jyuryc_s

Accidents on a short track passing an accident are probably rare because I'm guessing that it is somewhat unusual to have the driver who crashed angrily running down the track very close to where the cars are passing to confront a moving car as if it were a person or something made of cotton candy instead of a deadly weapon. Tony Stewart is going to be held to the standards of a resonable person under the circumstances, not the standard of what a super-intelligent, infinitely skilled magician conjured from your imnagination would do when someone makes a run at his moving car on a dark racetrack.

 

[uconnell]

This situation begs the question...what would you do?

For discussion sake...let's assume that Tony's anger got the best of him...and he intended to scare the kid a little but it went horribly wrong. So there is no intent...just a collasal f up. Knowing what I know about Tony and this situation...I would say this is what I think happened.

So you are Tony.....what do you do? Fess up and go to jail? What would that do...won't bring the kid back. The only thing it will do is give you a piece of mind that you did the right thing. But doing the right thing means destroying your life.

Would you do the selfless right thing and confess that you messed up....or would you try to bury it away and move on with your life. One path results in losing everything.....your freedom, your wealth and your future. The other path you may retain your career and wealth but you will feel guilty as hell.

I would like to say I would do the right thing...but I am sure it is a tough call for him.

I don't believe that is what happened Just my thoughts. Although I have seen really scary things happen on the tracks. A lstarter killed at Danbury years ago, even though the flag mans perch was way
above the track it jutted out over the track . A scrum right at the start and a car launched over another and killed the flagman.

 

[Jimdish255]

Accidents on a short track passing an accident are probably rare because I'm guessing that it is somewhat unusual to have the driver who crashed angrily running down the track very close to where the cars are passing to confront a moving car as if it were a person or something made of cotton candy instead of a deadly weapon. Tony Stewart is going to be held to the standards of a resonable person under the circumstances, not the standard of what a super-intelligent, infinitely skilled magician conjured from your imnagination would do when someone makes a run at his moving car on a dark racetrack.

Wrong. He should be held to the standards of an experienced professional driver because that's what he is. Drop the hyperbole it undermines your point.

 

[intlzncster]

All good points. I happen to like Tony Stewart and what he brings to racing. He does care about the other guys and this year his main team is struggling. He must be under tremendous stress and in a lot of pain. In the end he's a stand up guy and if push came to shove I think he's likely to shoulder his share of the blame. Seeing him destroyed is not the best outcome but the young man's family deserves answers.

Don't know if this had been posted, as I was buried by all the legalese, but here's the kid's father's opinion:

"I think the reason he probably got out of that car is who put him into the wall. He was definitely put into the wall," Ward Sr. said.

Kevin was dressed in an orange and black suit with fluorescent stripes down the sides that glowed under the lights, his father said. There was a caution flag, racers were slowing and moving to the bottom of the track, he said. The other drivers saw Kevin walking, his father said.

"Apparently, Tony Stewart was the only one driving out there who didn't see him," he said.

"Tony Stewart was the best damn driver by far on the track that night. Why he had to go up as high as he did and hog my son, there's no reason for it," Ward Sr. said.

Kevin got out of his car and walked along the track as if to confront Stewart, who hit Ward.

The crash is controversial. Debates are raging on the Internet over Stewart's intent and Kevin's behavior.

"The one person that knows what happened that night is possibly facing 10 years in prison. Is he going to say what he done?" Ward Sr. said.
​

Man, the kid was young:

 

[Husky25]

Unfortunately, Ward, Sr.'s opinion is irrelevant to the situation. Far too much emotion to be unbiased. Of course he is going to blame "the other guy" when his son is involved.

 

[Waquoit]

Unfortunately, Ward, Sr.'s opinion is irrelevant to the situation. Far too much emotion to be unbiased. Of course he is going to blame "the other guy" when his son is involved.

I wonder if he told his kid to not take any from Stewart. If he wrecks you get right in his face. The sponsors will love it.

 

[Dave Carlson]

Wrong. He should be held to the standards of an experienced professional driver because that's what he is. Drop the hyperbole it undermines your point.

Wait, they changed Article 125 of the New York Penal Code? Please send me the update, thanks

 

[uconnell]

The best thing about getting a visit from the ladies' board is that the sort of panties-in-a-wad, overwrought, uber emotional, misting up, failure-of-all-logic post that you see above makes all the other illogical "he tried to hit him and a crime was committed" posts in thread seem all the less irrational.

Hey, hey watch that,I'm from the ladies board,well from the mens board and the football board. Don't assume we all get our panties in a wad.

 

[Husky25]

Wrong. He should be held to the standards of an experienced professional driver because that's what he is. Drop the hyperbole it undermines your point.

Is the same benefit of the doubt extended to Stewart on the Thruway? Hypothetically, Stewart is late for pre-race obligations. So in order to get to the track on time, he is doing 90 in a 55, while weaving in and out of traffic. Is it okay because he is a racecar driver and is used to going speeds twice that and in a bigger crowd? Or does the double standard only come into play because he hurt someone?

I'm not a lawyer or a criminal investigator, but my opinion is a valuable as anyone else's. I've only seen the recording a few times, but I think that IF Stewart is charged, the most they can possibly find him guilty of is Criminally Negligent Homicide. OTOH, it probably won't go to a jury and they will plead down to a lesser charge. Whatever anyone thinks Stewart may have done (try to scare Ward, brown-wash him, Run him down, or didn't see him until it was too late - which is my personal opinion), it can't be proven by that video alone. The news said the investigators have a 2nd (and possibly more), recording so it will be interesting to see if they make it to the Court of Public Opinion (doubtful).

As far as sentencing, remember, Donte' Stallworth committed DUI Manslaughter (BAC of .12 and weed), and all he got was 30 days (served 24), revoked license, community service, and probation. Later, Yahoo! reported he ordered his lawyers to accept a plea deal that convicted him of a felony even when evidence showed he had an excellent chance of being found innocent. In that case, the victim ran across a normally busy causeway outside of a crosswalk. Booze and dope apparently notwithstanding, could Stallworth reasonably expect the victim to be there? Probably not. Could Stewart reasonably expect a 20 year old to pick a fight with a 1,400 lb. machine? Are all racing rules and regs. thrown out because a crime occurred? That is something for the investigators to figure out. The fact remains that Ward's profession is already inherently extremely dangerous and he put himself further into harm's way, which is against racing norms as well as regulations (at least as far as I understand them).

 

[jleves]

The best thing about getting a visit from the ladies' board is that the sort of panties-in-a-wad, overwrought, uber emotional, misting up, failure-of-all-logic post that you see above makes all the other illogical "he tried to hit him and a crime was committed" posts in thread seem all the less irrational.

I was going to respond to that post but I don' think I could top this.

 

[Strummer]

. . . . my opinion is a valuable as anyone else's.

One of the great tragedies of the Internet is the inherent propagation of this falsehood.

(this is not directed at Husky 25 in particular)

 

[David 76]

This situation begs the question...what would you do?

For discussion sake...let's assume that Tony's anger got the best of him...and he intended to scare the kid a little but it went horribly wrong. So there is no intent...just a collasal f up. Knowing what I know about Tony and this situation...I would say this is what I think happened.

So you are Tony.....what do you do? Fess up and go to jail? What would that do...won't bring the kid back. The only thing it will do is give you a piece of mind that you did the right thing. But doing the right thing means destroying your life.

Would you do the selfless right thing and confess that you messed up....or would you try to bury it away and move on with your life. One path results in losing everything.....your freedom, your wealth and your future. The other path you may retain your career and wealth but you will feel guilty as hell.

I would like to say I would do the right thing...but I am sure it is a tough call for him.

Character is what you do when nobodies looking. This would be a big test that I hope I would pass. What I wouldn't do is tell everyone I was going to race that weekend.

 

[David 76]

One of the great tragedies of the Internet is the inherent propagation of this falsehood.

(this is not directed at Husky 25 in particular)

Strummer, your arrogance makes your opinion meaningless to me. You are not the arbiter of valid opinions.
I actually think you are not like the Strummer on Boneyard but for some reason you try to put this demeanor forward. Maybe, I'm wrong.You may be this arrogant all the time. For your sake, I hope not.

 

[Strummer]

Strummer, your arrogance makes your opinion meaningless to me.

So you agree that all opinions are not equally valuable! Wonderful.

I'll add you to the list of the converted.

Yeah, I'm always like this. It's part of trying to live my life as free as possible from all of the socially demanded BS that human beings prefer. I got tired of the silliness a long time ago. It took some further time to shrug off several decades of conditioning. The part that gets left out is that most people would probably consider me funny as hell in real life. That doesn't translate to a BB message board well.

Now, when some half-wit claims that all opinions are of equal value, for example during a conversation about Iran, I point out that people who can't find Iran on a map, who don't know the difference between Sunni and Shiite, who have never heard of operation Ajax, and who don't understand the significance of the energy reserves remaining in the Caspian basin, have opinions on the matter that are probably baseless, and therefore not useful.

Sure, it cuts way back on the number of friends I'd have on facebook, if I did that, but choices must be made, and made they shall be, and those choices have consequences.

Make the choice, live with the consequence.

Still reading? You ARE converted!

 

[David 76]

Still reading and you got me to laugh. As usual, I get your point and mostly agree. But not converted.
The style seems intended to offend and I believe that most of us are doing the best we can with what we have.
I appreciate your responding.

 

[Rocktheworld]

So you agree that all opinions are not equally valuable! Wonderful.

I'll add you to the list of the converted.

Yeah, I'm always like this. It's part of trying to live my life as free as possible from all of the socially demanded BS that human beings prefer. I got tired of the silliness a long time ago. It took some further time to shrug off several decades of conditioning. The part that gets left out is that most people would probably consider me funny as hell in real life. That doesn't translate to a BB message board well.

Now, when some half-wit claims that all opinions are of equal value, for example during a conversation about Iran, I point out that people who can't find Iran on a map, who don't know the difference between Sunni and Shiite, who have never heard of operation Ajax, and who don't understand the significance of the energy reserves remaining in the Caspian basin, have opinions on the matter that are probably baseless, and therefore not useful.

Sure, it cuts way back on the number of friends I'd have on facebook, if I did that, but choices must be made, and made they shall be, and those choices have consequences.

Make the choice, live with the consequence.

Still reading? You ARE converted!

Wow I'm surprised you didn't just go with the example of some people still thinking the earth is 6000 years old and/or flat.

 

[CallMeBruce]

Wow I'm surprised you didn't just go with the example of some people still thinking the earth is 6000 years old and/or flat.

I used to work with a guy (a Syracuse grad, no less) who thinks the moon landing was faked.

 

[Husky25]

I used to work with a guy (a Syracuse grad, no less) who thinks the moon landing was faked.

The hoax conspiracy was debunked by Adam and Jamie.

 

[CallMeBruce]

The hoax conspiracy was debunked by Adam and Jamie.

Yeah, I didn't need Mythbusters to tell me that. My point was that a guy thought a really dumb thing.

 

[Husky25]

Yeah, I didn't need Mythbusters to tell me that. My point was that a guy thought a really dumb thing.

Even in the presence of near incontrovertible evidence, a lot of people still believe the moon landings were faked (among other controversies/conspiracies). It's not just that one person.

 

[CallMeBruce]

Even in the presence of near incontrovertible evidence, a lot of people still believe the moon landings were faked (among other controversies/conspiracies). It's not just that one person.

I'm aware that this is a widely held belief. I happen to think that it's a stupid and indefensible belief. I was hoping that the fact that this guy managed to attain a degree from Syracuse while believing that we faked the moon landing would draw more of a response.

 

[Rocktheworld]

Even in the presence of near incontrovertible evidence, a lot of people still believe the moon landings were faked (among other controversies/conspiracies). It's not just that one person.

I mean people by the billions still believe in a theistic god.

 

[Husky25]

I mean people by the billions still believe in a theistic god.

I thought about that, but I don't think it is the same thing. Not only does the moon landing evidence prove against a hoax, but the evidence also proves that the moon landings actually happened.

You cannot prove that there is no God, because no one has gone far enough and come back to reanimation. For me personally, (and my guess is for many, many others) faith fills in the gaps where science leaves off.

 

[Rocktheworld]

I thought about that, but I don't think it is the same thing. Not only does the moon landing evidence prove against a hoax, but the evidence also proves that the moon landings actually happened.

You cannot prove that there is no God, because no one has gone far enough and come back to reanimation. For me personally, (and my guess is for many, many others) faith fills in the gaps where science leaves off.

This is about believing something despite contrary evidence being provided, and there is plenty of evidence that runs contrary to what you see in the bible and quran.

 

[Husky25]

This is about believing something despite contrary evidence being provided, and there is plenty of evidence that runs contrary to what you see in the bible and quran.

The flip side to that is the same evidence that disproves the hoax, simultaneously proves the moon landings.

In terms of theology, there is certainly evidence against what is in the Bible (I don't know what in the Quran I don't speak/read/write the language. I hear it is taken quite literally though), but that does not prove there is no God, necessarily. Jesus was a real live human being. He existed. Was he God or a god? I don't know.

I, for one, do not take the Bible quite so literal. I actually regard it as a big game of Telephone. Most people in that era were illiterate. The Bible was a collection of stories and fables told word-of-mouth, and any given story could have been told ever so slightly different than how it was heard. Then it was written down however many years later (How long was a year in those days? How long was an hour or minute?), but after the stories were written down, they were translated, retold, and written in different languages all the while being changed ever so slightly each step along the way. Can I prove my theory? No not really. I think it's logical though. After all, The King James Bible wasn't published for just under 16 centuries after Christ was to have died). The bigger question is can you disprove it. The answer is equally in the negative.

This is not the case with the moon landings.

I didn't think my post would lead to a cesspool-like hijacking, so that is the last I'll address this topic here.