OT: The Dangers of International Travel !

[RockyMTblue2]

This is an odd one!

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...med-for-malaysian-earthquake/article24838099/

Makes the JLo concert flap look pretty tame!

I figure the more jocular, clever people here can come up with a few chuckles over this.

 

[UcMiami]

While this is somewhat amusing, I also find it to be one of those stories about culture clash that I find as a frequent foreign traveller to be a real issue. The world is not homogenous and hopefully will not become so. No one would snigger about someone arrested for indecency in a mosque in Turkey or a synagog in Israel, or at St Peter's in Rome. People would understand native american indignation about the same at a sacred site and there was a kid arrested recently in the US for obscenity on church property in PA (?)
I am frequently annoyed by the disrespect of local cultures displayed by tourists wherever I travel - most of us have rituals that we hold dear and expect attendees to show a level of respect within our culture. Someone taking flash pictures and carrying on a conversation at a funeral would annoying the heck out of most of us. When a lot of people travel they seem to expect to bring their cultural norms with them.

 

[SubbaBub]

While this is somewhat amusing, I also find it to be one of those stories about culture clash that I find as a frequent foreign traveller to be a real issue. The world is not homogenous and hopefully will not become so. No one would snigger about someone arrested for indecency in a mosque in Turkey or a synagog in Israel, or at St Peter's in Rome. People would understand native american indignation about the same at a sacred site and there was a kid arrested recently in the US for obscenity on church property in PA (?)
I am frequently annoyed by the disrespect of local cultures displayed by tourists wherever I travel - most of us have rituals that we hold dear and expect attendees to show a level of respect within our culture. Someone taking flash pictures and carrying on a conversation at a funeral would annoying the heck out of most of us. When a lot of people travel they seem to expect to bring their cultural norms with them.

People in NY got pretty outraged over a couple doing it in a church, so it's not all that foreign a concept. Blaming them for the earthquake is plain nuts.

 

[meyers7]

The Department of Foreign Affairs says it is assisting the two Canadians barred from leaving Malaysia, amid reports that the pair could be charged after allegedly posing naked atop Mount Kinabalu.

Wait a minute.

Floyd Petersen said he was unaware of the allegations against his son and daughter

These were a brother and sister? Taking naked pictures of themselves?

 

[UcMiami]

People in NY got pretty outraged over a couple doing it in a church, so it's not all that foreign a concept. Blaming them for the earthquake is plain nuts.

As are the ideas of virgin birth, transubstantiation, gays being responsible for Katrina, or god being responsible for other forms of retribution meted out through the years, which are beliefs espoused by many US citizens. Almost all religions beliefs involve a certain amount of faith in what non-believers consider ridiculous. Thankfully law (especially anglo saxon) is separated from religious belief, though often does codify special protections against defamation of religious beliefs - urination on a grave stone being treated more seriously than urination on a mile stone for example.

 

[UcMiami]

meyers7 - the story says about 10 people broke away from the group, stripped and were taking pictures - so not quite so questionable.

 

[meyers7]

meyers7 - the story says about 10 people broke away from the group, stripped and were taking pictures - so not quite so questionable.

Well, I guess. Still a little suspect.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

While this is somewhat amusing, I also find it to be one of those stories about culture clash that I find as a frequent foreign traveller to be a real issue. The world is not homogenous and hopefully will not become so. No one would snigger about someone arrested for indecency in a mosque in Turkey or a synagog in Israel, or at St Peter's in Rome. People would understand native american indignation about the same at a sacred site and there was a kid arrested recently in the US for obscenity on church property in PA (?)
I am frequently annoyed by the disrespect of local cultures displayed by tourists wherever I travel - most of us have rituals that we hold dear and expect attendees to show a level of respect within our culture. Someone taking flash pictures and carrying on a conversation at a funeral would annoying the heck out of most of us. When a lot of people travel they seem to expect to bring their cultural norms with them.

I get it. The whole smiling with teeth showing to women being "thoroughly covered" in public. I suspect there was no sign on the mountain about not disrobing at the top - and if its sacred why are you having foreigners pay a lot of coin to climb it. Given the nature of that government, I suspect this has some political undercurrents.

 

[Aluminny69]

As are the ideas of virgin birth, transubstantiation, gays being responsible for Katrina, or god being responsible for other forms of retribution meted out through the years, which are beliefs espoused by many US citizens. Almost all religions beliefs involve a certain amount of faith in what non-believers consider ridiculous. Thankfully law (especially anglo saxon) is separated from religious belief, though often does codify special protections against defamation of religious beliefs - urination on a grave stone being treated more seriously than urination on a mile stone for example.

Yet, a crucifix floating in a jar of urine is considered Art.....

 

[EricLA]

I agree it's silly - blaming the Canadians for the earthquake is like blaming someone for the sun rising or the waves crashing. Having said that, people traveling abroad need to remember they are in a foreign country and things will not be exactly the same as they are "back home".

I recall a trip I took to Stokholm about 20 years ago and was horrified at how rude the Americans were. Whining and complaining about many little things because it was "not like back home". Really? Duh. you are in a foreign country.

On my recent trip to Turkey, I found all the BY'ers to be incredibly respectful of the local customs and differences, and did not notice any whining or complaining from tourists in general. Maybe things have changed a bit since my earlier traveling days. Hopefully so. Some different customs we had to observe - removing shoes before entering mosques, and women needed to cover their heads in scarves before entering certain religious/burial buildings. And the locals were very patient in helping the foreigners comply. In fact I found the locals in Istanbul to be thoroughly delightful...

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

As are the ideas of virgin birth, transubstantiation, gays being responsible for Katrina, or god being responsible for other forms of retribution meted out through the years, which are beliefs espoused by many US citizens. Almost all religions beliefs involve a certain amount of faith in what non-believers consider ridiculous. Thankfully law (especially anglo saxon) is separated from religious belief, though often does codify special protections against defamation of religious beliefs - urination on a grave stone being treated more seriously than urination on a mile stone for example.

The only thing I want to point out is that virgin birth and transubstantiation are internal to Christianity, so other than your general "defamation of religious beliefs" have little to do with non-Christians.

Blaming gays for Katrina or God for various retributions on (presumably) bad Christians and / or non-Christians may be a belief by some, maybe many, but not a majority of US citizens or a majority of Christians in the US. In some ways, I suspect non-believers, as you call them, could probably understand these concepts better than the first 2.

 

[UcMiami]

I get it. The whole smiling with teeth showing to women being "thoroughly covered" in public. I suspect there was no sign on the mountain about not disrobing at the top - and if its sacred why are you having foreigners pay a lot of coin to climb it. Given the nature of that government, I suspect this has some political undercurrents.

Well - I don't see many signs in national parks here in the US saying 'No Nudity' but I do not recommend anyone stripping down as they will most likely get arrested. And the world is full of sacred sites that charge admission - and do they charge people to climb this mountain, or do they just charge to join a climbing group?
Knightsbridge - I am pretty sure you would not find a majority of Malaysians that believe 10 nude tourists caused the earthquake either and I think the article which I can no longer open said that they may be charged not in a normal Malaysian court but in an what might equate to a tribal court in the US. I used the Christian lead in since the US is a predominantly Christian country (70%)

We may sneer at this belief that human behavior caused an earthquake, but should be a little humbled by the fact that we as a nation are laughed at by much of the rest of the world for the level of public support for 'creationism' and disbelief in evolution.

Eric - was just in Turkey last week (great visit) and agree that there was little grumbling, but found it surprising how many people approached mosques in inappropriate garb - men and women. Same with my last visit to Italy and Catholic churches not just in clothing (not as strictly adhered to but still a preference and disrespectful) but also in the ignoring of signage re use of cameras, video, and especially flashes. (and this is not limited to Americans - it appears to be a universal condition of the tourist.)

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

We may sneer at this belief that human behavior caused an earthquake, but should be a little humbled by the fact that we as a nation are laughed at by much of the rest of the world for the level of public support for 'creationism' and disbelief in evolution.

Eric - was just in Turkey last week (great visit) and agree that there was little grumbling, but found it surprising how many people approached mosques in inappropriate garb - men and women. Same with my last visit to Italy and Catholic churches not just in clothing (not as strictly adhered to but still a preference and disrespectful) but also in the ignoring of signage re use of cameras, video, and especially flashes. (and this is not limited to Americans - it appears to be a universal condition of the tourist.)

Very spot on, UcM. Although creationism is only one of the ideas that get us laughed at, I fear.

As to the bad behavior of tourists (and I haven't been overseas in over 45 years) you see them ignore signage - and announcements - about flashes, cameras, and videos in museums, at sporting events and in concerts. I don't get it.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

"Creationism" is, of course, scoffed at by most in this country too and every culture has things which cause others amusement. On the other hand, there are "cultures" which have beliefs and practices in support thereof that are worthy of nothing but scorn by "civilized" people everywhere - cultural relativism has gone too far. I'm thinking, for example, "honor killing", female genital mutilation, the refusal to permit female education, and the list go on.

UcM: While I agree with much of what you say about "the ugly tourist", the two Canadians in that article were not being permitted to leave the country. If it is a tribal court they face, it is one that has the law enforcement of the country behind it.

 

[UcMiami]

"Creationism" is, of course, scoffed at by most in this country too and every culture has things which cause others amusement. On the other hand, there are "cultures" which have beliefs and practices in support thereof that are worthy of nothing but scorn by "civilized" people everywhere - cultural relativism has gone too far. I'm thinking, for example, "honor killing", female genital mutilation, the refusal to permit female education, and the list go on.

UcM: While I agree with much of what you say about "the ugly tourist", the two Canadians in that article were not being permitted to leave the country. If it is a tribal court they face, it is one that has the law enforcement of the country behind it.

I do not suggest anyone commit a crime anywhere in the world and then try to leave that country, the US included. I imagine they have committed a crime against Malaysian law by public nudity - it is quite a conservative country, but public nudity in most jurisdictions in this country is a crime as well.

Unfortunately to my way of thinking Creationism and its semantic off-shoot of Intelligent Design (a term originally created to get around laws preventing the teaching of creationism in schools) are majority held beliefs in this country - the young earth Creationist view (the most extreme) polls at 30-40% in the US. To me this explains why the US polls so poorly in the sciences when compared to other first world countries.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

To me this explains why the US polls so poorly in the sciences when compared to other first world countries.

Oh, I don't think you can cite just any one thing. For example, there's this:

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainmen...-in-controversial-paper-magazine-cover-story/

The "this" being whatever produces her, her devotees and people of like ilk! I propose a treaty between Canada and the US that forbids marriage or anything like it (wink,wink) between Justin Beiber and Miley Cyrus.

 

[UcMiami]

Oh, I don't think you can cite just any one thing. For example, there's this:

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainmen...-in-controversial-paper-magazine-cover-story/

The "this" being whatever produces her, her devotees and people of like ilk! I propose a treaty between Canada and the US that forbids marriage or anything like it (wink,wink) between Justin Beiber and Miley Cyrus.

The insanity of child stardom produces an incredible array of weird adults - I am incredibly impressed with the ones that actually turn into well rounded humans.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

The insanity of child stardom produces an incredible array of weird adults - I am incredibly impressed with the ones that actually turn into well rounded humans.

Amen. Remember Mickey Rooney! Disney Productions should get some award of demerit from somebody I think.

 

[UcMiami]

Just saw the end to this story:
"Four Westerners who posed naked on Malaysia's highest peak were sentenced Friday to three days in jail and fined for obscene behavior in a public place, news reports said."
The fines were about $1300 each and they are being deported - not sure what happened with the other 6 maybe they are fugitives from justice!

I would say that is a pretty reasonable outcome and the 'Prosecutor Jamil Aripin agreed that there was no link between the earthquake and their act but said it had outraged the local community'.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/12/tourists-naked-malaysia-jail-sentence_n_7568978.html

 

[meyers7]

Just saw the end to this story:
"Four Westerners who posed naked on Malaysia's highest peak were sentenced Friday to three days in jail and fined for obscene behavior in a public place, news reports said."
The fines were about $1300 each and they are being deported - not sure what happened with the other 6 maybe they are fugitives from justice!

I would say that is a pretty reasonable outcome and the 'Prosecutor Jamil Aripin agreed that there was no link between the earthquake and their act but said it had outraged the local community'.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/12/tourists-naked-malaysia-jail-sentence_n_7568978.html

I don't know. You know what happens when people are naked. And sometimes they can make the earth move.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

Just saw the end to this story:
"Four Westerners who posed naked on Malaysia's highest peak were sentenced Friday to three days in jail and fined for obscene behavior in a public place, news reports said."
The fines were about $1300 each and they are being deported - not sure what happened with the other 6 maybe they are fugitives from justice!

I would say that is a pretty reasonable outcome and the 'Prosecutor Jamil Aripin agreed that there was no link between the earthquake and their act but said it had outraged the local community'.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/12/tourists-naked-malaysia-jail-sentence_n_7568978.html

I heard this on my car radio today too; sort of reported as an oddity story and it highlighted claims of responsibility for the earth quake. Yes, spank their behinds and sent them home; But what is to befall the Jakarta 8! Justice, I say, for the Jakarta 8!!

 

[RockyMTblue2]

I don't know. You know what happens when people are naked. And sometimes they can make the earth move.

Shameless, just shameless Meyers. Have you no sense of rectitude!

 

[meyers7]

Shameless, just shameless Meyers. Have you no sense of rectitude!

Well duh. You just figuring that out?

 

[RockyMTblue2]

Well duh. You just figuring that out?

What a relief. Occurred to me I set you up for a flatulence joke, but you whiffed, much to me relief.

 

[UcMiami]

Cannot resist posting this headline as an example of insanity right here at home comparable to what people find so amusing in Malaysia - the difference of course being this is someone who won election as a state rep!!!
State Rep Suggests Abortion Is To Blame For California Drought