OT - rant 1 - spelling

[KnightBridgeAZ]

OK - I don't believe in the spelling and grammar police, in fact I'm not a great speller!

But when things are written for public consumption, what has happened to our pride in presenting documents, signage and such where the words are spelled correctly? I am increasingly seeing misspellings in:

- books - yes, published, non-fiction books. Most recently, a Civil War history and a book of "odd facts" about our presidents. I'll add that there was a rather glaring error in the Presidential book as-well, basically confusing (switching) the two Roosevelts in one of the "facts". And I have been noting this sort of thing for several years.
- signage - often the subject of humor (I saw a facebook post about the "Angus Beef" sign with the "g" missing) but we are doing "Road Wark" near where I live, and again, numerous examples have been seen.
- newspapers and magazines are not exempt either.

I am exempting "posters" on things like Facebook, although, if you are a business or famous person you ought to also make sure you get it right.

Or am I hopelessly old-fashioned to think that spelling - or more accurately, proof reading - matters?

 

[triaddukefan]

its just a sign of the times.... minus well get used to it

 

[UcMiami]

I remember 35 years ago an English friend complaining about the NY Times and how many typos were creeping onto even the front page. He had been aware of The Times (London) having the same issue but not to quite the same extent and almost never on the front page. I think the issue is two fold - good proofreading costs money and time, and the public doesn't care enough to complain. And of course we now depend on spellcheck software that is not perfect and don't even both to reread much of what we write. Their and there, two and too are not caught. And it is not just proof reading that has been cut, but whole research departments have been cut - the folks that did all the fact checking to support and correct authors/writers.

My uncle started life as a proof reader and any books of his I read have correction marks throughout correcting the text as published - and those date back to the 20s so it has always been a problem - but I agree it is much more pronounced now than it was. But he both noticed and felt the need to correct, something few people do today. The more we read 'unedited' text on-line, I think the less critically aware we become. And our standards of spoken language become laxer as well - things become real good instead of really good, and people are constantly giving 110% which is actually not possible.

 

[Kibitzer]

I plead guilty to aspiring to be a grammar policeman. I am constantly disappointed and occasionally appalled by the careless usage I encounter, not only by my fellow Boneyarders (e.g., "Ahem. . .") but by prominent public figures. A few examples:

Robert Caro, oft-honored and esteemed biographer (of Robert Moses and Lyndon Johnson, to cite two extraordinary works), referring to flags at "half mast" on land.

Equally renowned historian Michael Beschloss (and countless others) referring to John Roberts as the "Chief Justice of the Supreme Court." According to the US Constitution, he is the "Chief Justice of the United States."

Just about every TV pundit or newscaster mangles the simple word electoral. Correct pronunciation is e-LEK-tor-al, but it usually comes out e-lek-TOR-e-el.

Even Rhodes Scholar Rachel Maddow says "coo-day-graw" when she means "coo-day-grez."

Staying with flubbed French, a special skill or talent -- forte -- is correctly pronounced "fort," not "for-tay."

While I am venting, here are a few commonly misspelled words: supercede. committment, and mispell.

I won't even try to discuss "hone in" vs. "home in" or "reigns" vs. "reins" or nuclear being pronounced "NUKE-yuh-ler."​

Enough already! Now I need a good proofreader. Any volunteers?

 

[JS]

Enough already! Now I need a good proofreader. Any volunteers?

Not if you're going to take that tact.

 

[Kibitzer]

Not if you're going to take that tact.

Ahem.

Tack.

Or did I just take the bait?

 

[JS]

Or did I just take the bait?

I was waiting with baited breath to see if someone would.

 

[Kibitzer]

I was waiting with baited breath to see if someone would.

Ahem.

Surely, you crafty mod, know that your breath is bated. And, I hope, it is inoffensive to others as well.

Of course, that is a judgment call.

 

[Zorro]

I was waiting with baited breath to see if someone would.

Like the cat who ate the cheese and crouched at the mouse hole.

Incidentally, if you get off to this sort of thing, I highly recommend a little essay of Mark Twain's, entitled "Fenimore Cooper's Literary Offenses", available on line.

 

[hussybulldog]

Staying with flubbed French, a special skill or talent -- forte -- is correctly pronounced "fort," not "for-tay."
​

​

According to English dictionary (not a French dictionary!), forte can be pronounced either way!

 

[Zorro]

Here is the part of Twain's essay referring to the misuse of words. (There is much, much more on other "offenses".) My current main irritant is the use of "jive" when "jibe" is meant. Conflating "infer" with "imply" is another.

"Cooper's word-sense was singularly dull. When a person has a poor ear for music he will flat and sharp right along without knowing it. He keeps near the tune, but is not the tune. When a person has a poor ear for words, the result is a literary flatting and sharping; you perceive what he is intending to say, but you also perceive that he does not say it. This is Cooper. He was not a word-musician. His ear was satisfied with the approximate words. I will furnish some circumstantial evidence in support of this charge. My instances are gathered from half a dozen pages of the tale called "Deerslayer." He uses "Verbal" for "oral"; "precision" for "facility"; "phenomena" for "marvels"; "necessary" for "predetermined"; "unsophisticated" for "primitive"; "preparation" for "expectancy"; "rebuked" for "subdued"; "dependent on" for "resulting from"; "fact" for "condition"; "fact" for "conjecture"; "precaution" for "caution"; "explain" for "determine"; "mortified" for "disappointed"; "meretricious" for "factitious"; "materially" for "considerably"; "decreasing" for "deepening"; "increasing" for "disappearing"; "embedded" for "inclosed"; "treacherous" for "hostile"; "stood" for "stooped"; "softened" for "replaced"; "rejoined" for "remarked"; "situation" for "condition"; "different" for "differing"; "insensible" for "unsentient"; "brevity" for "celerity"; "distrusted" for "suspicious"; "mental imbecility" for "imbecility"; "eyes" for "sight"; "counteracting" for "opposing"; "funeral obsequies" for "obsequies."

 

[Kibitzer]

​

According to English dictionary (not a French dictionary!), forte can be pronounced either way!

Forte, when used on musical scores, is an Italian word (a strong and widespread tradition) that instructs musicians to play LOUD. It is pronounced "for-tay."

I will stand my ground on correct pronunciation of the French version; forte (special skill/talent) is pronounced "fort" when spoken.

 

[tomcat]

You;'re right about forte being pronounced fort when talking about one's strength or specialty. My favorite anglicized French word is lingerie, which we say "lahn-ger-ay," but should say "laih-ger-ee." Of course, no one says that, because the word has been mispronounced into modern usage.

 

[tomcat]

I remember 35 years ago an English friend complaining about the NY Times and how many typos were creeping onto even the front page. He had been aware of The Times (London) having the same issue but not to quite the same extent and almost never on the front page. I think the issue is two fold - good proofreading costs money and time, and the public doesn't care enough to complain. And of course we now depend on spellcheck software that is not perfect and don't even both to reread much of what we write. Their and there, two and too are not caught. And it is not just proof reading that has been cut, but whole research departments have been cut - the folks that did all the fact checking to support and correct authors/writers.

My uncle started life as a proof reader and any books of his I read have correction marks throughout correcting the text as published - and those date back to the 20s so it has always been a problem - but I agree it is much more pronounced now than it was. But he both noticed and felt the need to correct, something few people do today. The more we read 'unedited' text on-line, I think the less critically aware we become. And our standards of spoken language become laxer as well - things become real good instead of really good, and people are constantly giving 110% which is actually not possible.

If your uncle started life as as proofreader, I sure would have liked to meet his parents. Most of us can only hope to start out life as an infant.

 

[DaddyChoc]

none of this has to do with "spelling"... are the words are spelled correctly. its about using the "write" words/grammar

 

[UcMiami]

If your uncle started life as as proofreader, I sure would have liked to meet his parents. Most of us can only hope to start out life as an infant.

'professional' was implied (or do i mean inferred?!!)

I think what I mean is you should have inferred that I was implying 'professional life'.

 

[Kibitzer]

You;'re right about forte being pronounced fort when talking about one's strength or specialty. My favorite anglicized French word is lingerie, which we say "lahn-ger-ay," but should say "laih-ger-ee." Of course, no one says that, because the word has been mispronounced into modern usage.

English speakers toss out Gallic words like boulevard or rendezvous with ease and confidence.

It is understandable and often amusing when we try to brighten our conversations by slipping an occasional bon mot into the mix and having it become emasculated when uttered. We usually handle common ones like coup, voila!, or esprit -- even laissez-faire.

But the one that I find to be most frequently -- and hilariously -- mangled is chaise longue. Translated, it means "long chair" and should sound like "shez long." Anyhow, it seems that what comes out of most American mouths is "Chase lounge."

 

[Sonny44]

its just a sign of the times.... minus well get used to it

Yep, we've lowered our standards in every other aspect of our lives. Just part of the dumbing down of America.

 

[meyers7]

Well, while I too prefer to see things spelled correctly, and grammar used correctly, in reality, the point of speaking and writing is to communicate. If the message is received and understood by the receiver, then it really matters not whether the spelling or pronunciation is correct.

Don't get caught up too much in the details and miss the big picture.

 

[hussybulldog]

Forte, when used on musical scores, is an Italian word (a strong and widespread tradition) that instructs musicians to play LOUD. It is pronounced "for-tay."

I will stand my ground on correct pronunciation of the French version; forte (special skill/talent) is pronounced "fort" when spoken.

You can stay your ground as your pronunciation is listed in the dictionary. But you cannot fault other people for pronouncing the other way listed in the same dictionary. As Tomcat said, many French words were mispronounced into modern English, we can all blame the British for that!
As for grammar, after I move to US, I did notice young people tend to say, he runs faster than me, instead of than I, which definitely startled me at first. People seem to accept it as norm.
Does anybody know why in US, color is preferred to colour? (neighbor is preferred to neighbour?) h is preferred to be muted in herb?

 

[Beemer]

I am a proud member of the grammar & spelling police.

If you want to be taken seriously then use correct spelling, grammar & punctuation. Otherwise it is just nonsense.

Yeah I'm an old fart that way

 

[Kibitzer]

Does anybody know why in US, color is preferred to colour? (neighbor is preferred to neighbour?) h is preferred to be muted in herb?

Le me rely on one of the greatest communicators of all: Winston Churchill. He once said that England and the United States are separated by only two things: the Atlantic Ocean and a common language.

 

[Aluminny69]

I remember 35 years ago an English friend complaining about the NY Times and how many typos were creeping onto even the front page. He had been aware of The Times (London) having the same issue but not to quite the same extent and almost never on the front page. I think the issue is two fold - good proofreading costs money and time, and the public doesn't care enough to complain. And of course we now depend on spellcheck software that is not perfect and don't even both to reread much of what we write. Their and there, two and too are not caught. And it is not just proof reading that has been cut, but whole research departments have been cut - the folks that did all the fact checking to support and correct authors/writers.

My uncle started life as a proof reader and any books of his I read have correction marks throughout correcting the text as published - and those date back to the 20s so it has always been a problem - but I agree it is much more pronounced now than it was. But he both noticed and felt the need to correct, something few people do today. The more we read 'unedited' text on-line, I think the less critically aware we become. And our standards of spoken language become laxer as well - things become real good instead of really good, and people are constantly giving 110% which is actually not possible.

Was this a test?

 

[UcMiami]

Yes British and American English is always a fun exercise especially when it comes to quirky pronunciations like Thames and Derby or the dropping of the 'u' in 'ou' combinations.

And the English upper class never trusted people who pronounced French properly - every educated person should speak French, but a true Englishman should be careful not to sound French!

I am a terrible speller, but I find the proper use of language to be a pleasure, and was surprised when I entered the business world at how poorly many people wrote.

Historically, the proper use of language was a 'class' distinction, and proper usage, spelling, and pronunciation were paramount for advancement professionally - the US being less class oriented (though certainly not devoid of distinctions) has always been more lax than older more homogenous countries.

 

[j66kicker]

Yes British and American English is always a fun exercise especially when it comes to quirky pronunciations like Thames and Derby or the dropping of the 'u' in 'ou' combinations.

And the English upper class never trusted people who pronounced French properly - every educated person should speak French, but a true Englishman should be careful not to sound French!

I am a terrible speller, but I find the proper use of language to be a pleasure, and was surprised when I entered the business world at how poorly many people wrote.

Historically, the proper use of language was a 'class' distinction, and proper usage, spelling, and pronunciation were paramount for advancement professionally - the US being less class oriented (though certainly not devoid of distinctions) has always been more lax than older more homogenous countries.

And spelling. Aluminium (AL-you MIN-i-um) is my fav...