OT: Pats-Colts

[upstater]

Pretty much everyone is saying what Brunell said, there is no chance that a ballboy/equipment manager went rogue and deflated the footballs.

Brunell totally twisted what Brady said.

 

[mauconnfan]

Jokes on you, Im not wearing pants

 

[FartMan69]

The thread at this point is basically just a glorified survey of how many Giants and how many Patriots fan's are on the Boneyard.

 

[upstater]

Someone got on me for being a lawyer somewhere here. But, I'd really like a lawyer to read the NFL's statement about the sequence of events and what went down.

In particular, the part about the referees, who were mentioned as providing confirmation in the first paragraph, but then omitted in the known sequence of events in the last paragraph. And, no mention of gauges whatsoever.

https://nfllabor.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/1-23-15-nfl-statement-2.pdf

 

[CL82]

Pretty much everyone is saying what Brunell said, there is no chance that a ballboy/equipment manager went rogue and deflated the footballs.

I'll agree with that statement as well. My question is who is alleging that a ball boy went rogue? No one associated with the Patriots.

It's as if I said, oh sure there's no chance that refs screwed up measuring the PSI by accident, so I'm disappointed in Goodell because he's been involved in football too long to believe that they would. Is that an accurate statement? Sure. Does the fact that it's true mean that refs screwed up measuring the PSI on purpose? No. Does it mean that Goodell ever said that, well no but it sure seems like it doesn't it?

 

[zyron]

Please provide your take on how my point is a conspiracy theory? Did Calhoun not get slapped with recruiting violations? Some call that cheating. I don't think we cheated, but we were found guilty. Did UConn not come out of nowhere to dominate a sport controlled by the good ole boy's? You know what? Pats came out of nowhere too with a Coach who has been penalized for violations and dominated.
You can call me an idiot and my points stupid but please back it up.

In the four years before Belichick got there, were they in the playoffs, or Super Bowl at all? I don't believe Calhoun was ever caught hiding in Dukes locker room when coach K was going over his teams gameplan.

 

[upstater]

I'll agree with that statement as well. My question is who is alleging that a ball boy went rogue? No one associated with the Patriots.

It's as if I said, oh sure there's no chance that refs screwed up measuring the PSI by accident, so I'm disappointed in Goodell because he's been involved in football too long to believe that they would. Is that an accurate statement? Sure. Does the fact that it's true mean that refs screwed up measuring the PSI on purpose? No. Does it mean that Goodell ever said that, well no but it sure seems like it doesn't it?

Brady was actually asked that question at the PC. He said he did speak with the equip guys. He then they told him they didn't mess with anything, and when asked, he said he believed them.

The ballboys wouldn't have done it. They are paid by the NFL even if locally sourced. It would have been the equipment guys--likely at the QBs behest.

 

[Husky25]

Meant Superjohn. Brady said in the past he likes to play with an underinflated ball, he likes when Gronk spikes it and deflates it. No one on the Pats side would mess with Brady's ball without him knowing.

Where did I say anything counter to that? Brady could have very well intentionally submitted under-inflated balls for official approval. That doesn't mean the officials did their job 100% to a T. Aaron Rodgers indicated he submits over inflated balls in hopes they make it through and because some do, you can't convince me that the officials do a completely thorough job every single time. Remember these are All-Star crews who do not work with each other during the season (Stupid policy in its own right but that's neither here nor there.). Who does the ball certification on Walt Anderson's normal staff. Did he delegate it? Did whoever approve them ever do it before. I'm just saying there is at least a possibility of Official CYA.

More often than not, whenever you want to determine who is lying, you look at those with something to lose. Both Belichick and Brady obviously have something to lose, so them being scrutinized is not unexpected. It literally is what it is. But the officials were let off the hook on Monday night/Tuesday Morning. How was it confirmed that they did their job 100%? Just their say so? Why? Just because they are supposed to be impartial? I'm an accountant and thanks to the Enron collapse, one's word is no longer a good enough bond in my profession. Where's the documentation? On the other hand, when a company's internal control is under examination, I've seen more than a few incidents of back dating support just as much (i.e. fabrication).

 

[upstater]

In the four years before Belichick got there, were they in the playoffs, or Super Bowl at all? I don't believe Calhoun was ever caught hiding in Dukes locker room when coach K was going over his teams gameplan.

We shouldn't need to rehearse Spygate again but Belichick used a big arse camera planted on the sidelines in fullview of everyone in order to tape signals. When asked if he had done it, he turned over many years worth of notes on the info culled from those tapes. Those tapes aren't even a mystery--they were shown on Fox.

 

[Danzz]

Off course the only person alleging that is Brunell who wasn't there, has no first hand knowlege and thus is pretty much talking out his butt. But apparently he started 151 games in the NFL and was a vigorous ball rubber so....

Didn't see or know about Brunell or any statements he may have made. If he did it probably also seems logical to him that brady would know. Is there someone not connected to the Pats who has first hand knowledge? What we do have is underinflated balls that were only handled by Pats personnel and that is plenty of reason to allege tampering by them.

 

[FartMan69]

In the four years before Belichick got there, were they in the playoffs, or Super Bowl at all? I don't believe Calhoun was ever caught hiding in Dukes locker room when coach K was going over his teams gameplan.

Patriots choked away Pete Carrolls last season and didn't get back to the playoffs until Belichick's 2nd season. In fact they only made the NFL/AFL playoffs 9 times between 1963 and 2000. Can you send me the article where Belichick hid in a locker? Sounds like you were watching Space Jam recently.

 

[zyron]

Patriots choked away Pete Carrolls last season and didn't get back to the playoffs until Belichick's 2nd season. In fact they only made the NFL/AFL playoffs 9 times between 1963 and 2000. Can you send me the article where Belichick hid in a locker? Sounds like you were watching Space Jam recently.

Really? OK, here it is:

 

[FartMan69]

Really? OK, here it is:

Thank God Burn's had a chair at Springfield U (sorry if your not a Simpsons nerd)

 

[Husky25]

You can , the joke was about the 9-11 truthers not the horrible attack, don't be an idiot. If you want stupid look towards Brady bringing up Isis in his press conference.

I had a pithy comment all lined-up, but it really doesn't move the conversation any further so congratulation. You get the last word and you used it for a personal attack.

 

[upstater]

Didn't see or know about Brunell or any statements he may have made. If he did it probably also seems logical to him that brady would know. Is there someone not connected to the Pats who has first hand knowledge? What we do have is underinflated balls that were only handled by Pats personnel and that is plenty of reason to allege tampering by them.

Here's what happened with Brunell: Brady said that he is very particular about the balls he selects, he wants them at exactly 12.5. He tests the laces, he wants the body tacky. When asked if he noticed the difference during the game, he said PSI is the last thing he's thinking about the 30 times a game he goes back to pass, so no, he doesn't notice a difference in those 2 seconds.

Brunell then crunched everything and said he (Brunell) used to be very particular about the selection of his balls, and knew the PSI exactly, and that no way can Brady make the claim he didn't know. In other words, Brunell completely disregarded what Brady said about selecting the balls.

As for your other point about Pats personnel handling the balls, no. The balls are given by the refs to NFL paid ball handlers (who are local). For a Patriots employee to do the deflation, he would have to do it surrepitiously because they are not otherwise in their possession. The balls go into a bag on the sidelines, handled by a person with NFL uniform. Granted, these guys look to be 18-20 years old. I'm sure stuff happens.

 

[John]

 

[FartMan69]

Here's what happened with Brunell: Brady said that he is very particular about the balls he selects, he wants them at exactly 12.5. He tests the laces, he wants the body tacky. When asked if he noticed the difference during the game, he said PSI is the last thing he's thinking about the 30 times a game he goes back to pass, so no, he doesn't notice a difference in those 2 seconds.

Brunell then crunched everything and said he was very particular about the selection of his balls, and knew the PSI exactly, and that no way can Brady make that claim. In other words, Brunell completely disregarded what Brady said about selecting the balls.

As for your other point about Pats personnel handling the balls, no. The balls are given by the refs to NFL paid ball handlers (who are local). For a Patriots employee to do the deflation, he would have to do it surrepitiously because they are not otherwise in their possession. The balls go into a bag on the sidelines that is handled by a person with NFL uniform.

Hey we must respect the man who spent a season as Mark Sanchez's personal Kleenex

 

[CL82]

Someone got on me for being a lawyer somewhere here. But, I'd really like a lawyer to read the NFL's statement about the sequence of events and what went down.

In particular, the part about the referees, who were mentioned as providing confirmation in the first paragraph, but then omitted in the known sequence of events in the last paragraph. And, no mention of gauges whatsoever.

https://nfllabor.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/1-23-15-nfl-statement-2.pdf

Well I don't profess to be part of Boneyard's legal brain trust, but I found this to interesting:

While the evidence thus far supports the conclusion that footballs that were under-inflated were used by the Patriots in the first half, the footballs were properly inflated for the second half and confirmed at the conclusion of the game to have remained properly inflated.

That seems to mitigate any leaking ball defense, which was unlikely anyway. It doesn't change the "cold air" defense, since the balls were originally measured, and presumedly filled at room temperature but and then exposed to cold air which would cause some reduction in air pressure. Now if the balls were warmed to room temperature again and refilled and had not shrinkage in the 2nd half, that might hurt the 'cold air' defense, but I doubt that's what happened.

The goals of the investigation will be to determine the explanation for why footballs used in the game were not in compliance with the playing rules and specifically whether any noncompliance was the result of deliberate action. We have not made any judgments on these points and will not do so until we have concluded our investigation and considered all of the relevant evidence.

Upon being advised of the investigation, the Patriots promptly pledged their full cooperation and have made their personnel and other information available to us upon request. Our investigation will seek information from any and all relevant sources and we expect full cooperation from other clubs as well. As we develop more information and are in a position to reach conclusions, we will share them publicly.

My read of this is that if they have proof, there will be sanctions and I suspect that they will be pretty meaningful. But there isn't proof now.

The most interesting missing element in a description of how the ball we found to be in compliance at the original inspection. You expect to see something like, each of the 12 balls were tested prior to game and had pressure of (say 12.5 lbs/psi.) That's missing. The statement does say: Prior to the game, the game officials inspect the footballs to be used by each team and confirm that this standard is satisfied, which was done before last Sunday’s game but it doesn't say how it was confirmed. I wonder if the outcome of this is going be a stardardization of the proceedure to check the balls.

Likewise, it would interesting to see what the half time pressure was. The two pound number makes it seem like is was 10.5. I'll be surprised if that is the case.

 

[upstater]

Now if the balls were warmed to room temperature again and refilled and had not shrinkage in the 2nd half, that might hurt the 'cold air' defense, but I doubt that's what happened.

Agree with everything you said, but the Physics professor in the Globe said the temperature inside the ball is different than outside. So, the ball wouldn't lose pressure immediately, AND the air would not change temperature immediately when moved either inside/outside. He calculated it would take at least 30 minutes for the temperature inside the ball to rise/drop and so for the PSI to drop or rise.

 

[FartMan69]

While the evidence thus far supports the conclusion that footballs that were under-inflated were used by the Patriots in the first half, the footballs were properly inflated for the second half and confirmed at the conclusion of the game to have remained properly inflated.

28-0 second half. Maybe its time to start OVER inflating footballs

 

[upstater]

28-0 second half. Maybe its time to start OVER inflating footballs

Standard pressure is going to happen whether Brady likes it or not. And Peyton, Eli and Rodgers for that matter.

Not sure what the league is going to do at halftime of cold weather games. Reinflate?

 

[mauconnfan]

Standard pressure is going to happen whether Brady likes it or not. And Peyton, Eli and Rodgers for that matter.

Not sure what the league is going to do at halftime of cold weather games. Reinflate?

Just can't make that statement without throwing in Aaron, Peyton and Eli can you? Can you show me the article where any of them were caught?

 

[zyron]

Standard pressure is going to happen whether Brady likes it or not. And Peyton, Eli and Rodgers for that matter.

Not sure what the league is going to do at halftime of cold weather games. Reinflate?

Only Patriots balls apparently, the other teams balls seem to stay inflated for some reason.

 

[mauconnfan]

Only Patriots balls apparently, the other teams balls seem to stay inflated for some reason.

Yeah even at the frozen tundra.

 

[upstater]

Only Patriots balls apparently, the other teams balls seem to stay inflated for some reason.

I pray to this miracle that defies the laws of nature as well: