OT: "Ode to NY" by #2

[Onions]

Craig ig

John, we're getting close to restraining order territory here, guy.

Baseball Reference calculates that the player whose career most closely resembles Jeter's is Craig Biggio of the Houston Astros.

Biggio retired seven years ago, with 3,060 hits and 1,844 runs scored. Jeter currently has 3,461 and 1,922, respectively, but Biggio had more doubles, home runs, and stolen bases. This year, in his second year on the Hall of Fame ballot, Biggio got 74.8 percent of the vote, missing induction by two votes. He will almost certainly make it next time around; no one really objects to the notion that a player like Craig Biggio belongs in the Hall of Fame.

Biggio is a HOF quality player who was highly underrated due to the fact that his team never won anything. On the other hand, his team never won anything. He'll be in the HOF soon. And while Biggio is most similar, he is also clearly not as good - not using OPS, not using WAR, not using anything that really measures value. Which is also not counting the fact that much of Jeter's value comes in the post season, where he is even better than he is in the regular season, whereas Biggio pretty much stunk when it counts most. But that's OK if it makes you feel better to say that Biggio=Jeter, feel free. By the way, Jeter got the walk off tonite, in case you didn't hear.

 

[superjohn]

Craig ig


Biggio is a HOF quality player who was highly underrated due to the fact that his team never won anything. On the other hand, his team never won anything. He'll be in the HOF soon. And while Biggio is most similar, he is also clearly not as good - not using OPS, not using WAR, not using anything that really measures value. Which is also not counting the fact that much of Jeter's value comes in the post season, where he is even better than he is in the regular season, whereas Biggio pretty much stunk when it counts most. But that's OK if it makes you feel better to say that Biggio=Jeter, feel free. By the way, Jeter got the walk off tonite, in case you didn't hear.

Exactly, Biggio had a great career and will most likely be a HOF'er but he simply isn't as good as Jeter. As good as Biggio was he wasn't even the best player on a team that never won it, that goes to Bagwell. Unfortunately for Biggio and Bagwell they both played poorly in their few chances on the big stage, Jeter always raised his game to another level on the big stage.

 

[intlzncster]

Which is also not counting the fact that much of Jeter's value comes in the post season, where he is even better than he is in the regular season, whereas Biggio pretty much stunk when it counts most. But that's OK if it makes you feel better to say that Biggio=Jeter, feel free. By the way, Jeter got the walk off tonite, in case you didn't hear.

Jeter always raised his game to another level on the big stage.

I remember reading somewhere that Jeter's numbers are pretty much the same in the post season as the regular season. Couldn't find the article but found this (don't have time to verify):

Jeter:

Regular season avg: .312
Postseason avg: .308

Regular season OPS: .828
Postseason OPS: .838

Regular season K%: ~15%
Postseason K%: 21%

 

[zyron]

I remember reading somewhere that Jeter's numbers are pretty much the same in the post season as the regular season. Couldn't find the article but found this (don't have time to verify):

Jeter:

Regular season avg: .312
Postseason avg: .308

Regular season OPS: .828
Postseason OPS: .838

Regular season K%: ~15%
Postseason K%: 21%

Regular season BA: .309 (This season hurt him here), SLUG: .439, OPS: .817
Post season BA: .308, SLUG: .465, OPS: .838

So, he did raise his game. Against the best teams and best pitchers in baseball, Jeter was better in the post season than in the regular season.

 

[superjohn]

I remember reading somewhere that Jeter's numbers are pretty much the same in the post season as the regular season. Couldn't find the article but found this (don't have time to verify):

Jeter:

Regular season avg: .312
Postseason avg: .308

Regular season OPS: .828
Postseason OPS: .838

Regular season K%: ~15%
Postseason K%: 21%

Exactly, most players stats go down significantly in the postseason, the pitching is so much better.

 

[Fishy]

There's nothing to explain with Jeter.

All he did was win an awful lot, put up numbers for an awfully long time, made it through the steroid era without having to explain away a failed test, never had to explain why equine stimulants showed up in a vitamin B12 shot his third-cousin gave him, never showed up in the police blotter, never said the wrong thing, never did the wrong thing, never showed up an opponent, never beat a water cooler to death, never got thrown out of a game, and never forced fans to explain away some bad behavior as "Oh, that's Derek being Derek".

He wears a lot of a World Series rings and you can find his name in a whole lot of all-time top-ten lists.

In the steroid era, he's a baseball player straight out of central casting and if anything, he's under-appreciated. Remember those arguments about which shortstop was the best in the game? Tejada, Nomar, Arod or Jeter? Well, one of them is going to the Hall of Fame and the other three still have nuts the size of raisins.

And he had a wonderful knack for creating nights like tonight.

 

[uconnbill]

Red Sox fans are goshdarn adorable.

No they are insufferable SOB's because my other word was cut out

 

[superjohn]

There's nothing to explain with Jeter.

All he did was win an awful lot, put up numbers for an awfully long time, made it through the steroid era without having to explain away a failed test, never had to explain why equine stimulants showed up in a vitamin B12 shot his third-cousin gave him, never showed up in the police blotter, never said the wrong thing, never did the wrong thing, never showed up an opponent, never beat a water cooler to death, never got thrown out of a game, and never forced fans to explain away some bad behavior as "Oh, that's Derek being Derek".

He wears a lot of a World Series rings and you can find his name in a whole lot of all-time top-ten lists.

In the steroid era, he's a baseball player straight out of central casting and if anything, he's under-appreciated. Remember those arguments about which shortstop was the best in the game? Tejada, Nomar, Arod or Jeter? Well, one of them is going to the Hall of Fame and the other three still have nuts the size of raisins.

And he had a wonderful knack for creating nights like tonight.

Man that was so well said Fishy, would you mind if I sent this to a friend? Of course with attribution to you.

 

[Fishy]

Man that was so well said Fishy, would you mind if I sent this to a friend? Of course with attribution to you.

Feel free. Attribution not necessary.

Actually, tell him the Dalai Lama wrote it - sounds better than "a guy on the internet who uses the name 'Fishy'".

 

[mauconnfan]

Well, we know where your glove is. Next to the lube.

Another picture for you? You and Crack needs some new fantasies!! LOL

 

[mauconnfan]

I'm still hungover from the world series victory last year.
It's been 5 years since you experienced what a WS hangover is like, I understand how you could forget.

I get hangovers and have had a lot more than you.....with the Yanks and without the Yanks. You get my point!

 

[mauconnfan]

John, we're getting close to restraining order territory here, guy.

Baseball Reference calculates that the player whose career most closely resembles Jeter's is Craig Biggio of the Houston Astros.

Biggio retired seven years ago, with 3,060 hits and 1,844 runs scored. Jeter currently has 3,461 and 1,922, respectively, but Biggio had more doubles, home runs, and stolen bases. This year, in his second year on the Hall of Fame ballot, Biggio got 74.8 percent of the vote, missing induction by two votes. He will almost certainly make it next time around; no one really objects to the notion that a player like Craig Biggio belongs in the Hall of Fame.

And he played with Bagwell and were great friends!! hmmmmmmm.........

 

[mauconnfan]

I think the crux of Olbermann's argument is that it is possible to be a Hall of Famer and be overrated. I'd like to think even the most biased NY fan can admit Jeter was a very good player for a long time but also overrated.

I'm talking about his baseball career, not his career in the sack.

What does overrated mean? Where do we start? Was he award too many GG's?? Yes......where else is he overrated? help me understand your point Lief!

 

[mauconnfan]

Man that was so well said Fishy, would you mind if I sent this to a friend? Of course with attribution to you.

OMG Fishy we can end this thread on that........laughing my a** off!! Great stuff.........

 

[intlzncster]

Regular season BA: .309 (This season hurt him here), SLUG: .439, OPS: .817
Post season BA: .308, SLUG: .465, OPS: .838

So, he did raise his game. Against the best teams and best pitchers in baseball, Jeter was better in the post season than in the regular season.

Exactly, most players stats go down significantly in the postseason, the pitching is so much better.

Yeah, but is that really that amazing? For comparison, here's David Ortiz's stats:

Average
Regular .285
Post .295

OPS
Regular .926
Post .962

A more significant improvement from regular to post season stats compared to Jeter. Yet, you won't hear Yankee fans talk about Ortiz being 'Mr. October/November'.

 

[Fishy]

Stop.

You're embarrassing yourself.

Never try to replace actual insight with a Google search.

 

[intlzncster]

Stop.

You're embarrassing yourself.

Never try to replace actual insight with a Google search.

The numbers are what they are. I can't do anything about that.

 

[Waquoit]

I have to admit, that was a great way to end it.

 

[MilliniumPrince]

Yeah, but is that really that amazing? For comparison, here's David Ortiz's stats:

Average
Regular .285
Post .295

OPS
Regular .926
Post .962

A more significant improvement from regular to post season stats compared to Jeter. Yet, you won't hear Yankee fans talk about Ortiz being 'Mr. October/November'.

As a Yankees fan, even I have to concede this point. Ortiz was tremendous in the post season compared to Jeter, and when you add all the wear and tear of a long season playing a key defensive infield position....it is amazing Ortiz had the stamina left to even pick up a bat. Remember that great defensive play he made in that series.....me neither.

 

[Deepster]

There's nothing to explain with Jeter.

All he did was win an awful lot, put up numbers for an awfully long time, made it through the steroid era without having to explain away a failed test, never had to explain why equine stimulants showed up in a vitamin B12 shot his third-cousin gave him, never showed up in the police blotter, never said the wrong thing, never did the wrong thing, never showed up an opponent, never beat a water cooler to death, never got thrown out of a game, and never forced fans to explain away some bad behavior as "Oh, that's Derek being Derek".

He wears a lot of a World Series rings and you can find his name in a whole lot of all-time top-ten lists.

In the steroid era, he's a baseball player straight out of central casting and if anything, he's under-appreciated. Remember those arguments about which shortstop was the best in the game? Tejada, Nomar, Arod or Jeter? Well, one of them is going to the Hall of Fame and the other three still have nuts the size of raisins.

And he had a wonderful knack for creating nights like tonight.

This is nothing but sentimental pablum. Spoon fed by the media to us for years, now from you to us here.

First off, HE didn't win an awful lot. He was the benefactor of being on great teams and in the right place at the right time. And having Mariano Rivera pitch the 9th inning of every game in his career didn't hurt that.

Second, you don't get "credit" for doing the right things like not cheating, not taking steroids, never saying stupid things to the media or not getting arrested. I don't get a pat on the back because I went all day without murdering someone. He played in a tough media market and didn't duckk up. From where I sit, he got paid 266 million dollars over his career and was smart enough to keep his mouth shut. You don't get anointed for that.

Lastly, he did "create a night" like last night. He created it by forcing the entire league to fake a season long blow job with this retirement tour. And he capped the special season by singling in a run in a meaningless game with his team 13 games back in the standings, then milking it for every drop it was worth. For me? I'll take the way Michael Young did it. The majority of his hitting stats over their prime years are dead on to Jeter's. He moved to 2B when it made sense for the team and Elvis Andrus came up. He didn't stay at SS and force everyone to watch 6 hoppers skip under his glove for the last 4 years. Like Jeter? He never got arrested or got caught cheating or saying anything stupid in the media. Ron Washington said "His attitude every single day was exemplary," Washington said. "Simply the way Michael went about his business and the professionalism he showed took them [his teammates] to a level they didn't think they had."

You know what he did? In January, he hung 'em up before the season started. He made 16.0m in 2013 and admitted he could have "hung on" for another year with the Dodgers but he didn't think it was right, wanted to be with his family and retired gracefully instead.

http://espn.go.com/dallas/mlb/story/_/id/10384957/michael-young-officially-retires-texas-rangers

Good riddance to this Jeter retirement nonsense. Overrated his entire career, right through to the last game.

 

[HooHusky]

This is nothing but sentimental pablum. Spoon fed by the media to us for years, now from you to us here.

First off, HE didn't win an awful lot. He was the benefactor of being on great teams and in the right place at the right time. And having Mariano Rivera pitch the 9th inning of every game in his career didn't hurt that.

Second, you don't get "credit" for doing the right things like not cheating, not taking steroids, never saying stupid things to the media or not getting arrested. I don't get a pat on the back because I went all day without murdering someone. He played in a tough media market and didn't duckk up. From where I sit, he got paid 266 million dollars over his career and was smart enough to keep his mouth shut. You don't get anointed for that.

Lastly, he did "create a night" like last night. He created it by forcing the entire league to fake a season long blow job with this retirement tour. And he capped the special season by singling in a run in a meaningless game with his team 13 games back in the standings, then milking it for every drop it was worth. For me? I'll take the way Michael Young did it. The majority of his hitting stats over their prime years are dead on to Jeter's. He moved to 2B when it made sense for the team and Elvis Andrus came up. He didn't stay at SS and force everyone to watch 6 hoppers skip under his glove for the last 4 years. Like Jeter? He never got arrested or got caught cheating or saying anything stupid in the media. Ron Washington said "His attitude every single day was exemplary," Washington said. "Simply the way Michael went about his business and the professionalism he showed took them [his teammates] to a level they didn't think they had."

You know what he did? In January, he hung 'em up before the season started. He made 16.0m in 2013 and admitted he could have "hung on" for another year with the Dodgers but he didn't think it was right, wanted to be with his family and retired gracefully instead.

http://espn.go.com/dallas/mlb/story/_/id/10384957/michael-young-officially-retires-texas-rangers

Good riddance to this Jeter retirement nonsense. Overrated his entire career, right through to the last game.

Pathetic comment, this warrants nothing else.

 

[intlzncster]

As a Yankees fan, even I have to concede this point. Ortiz was tremendous in the post season compared to Jeter, and when you add all the wear and tear of a long season playing a key defensive infield position....it is amazing Ortiz had the stamina left to even pick up a bat. Remember that great defensive play he made in that series.....me neither.

Ahh, a member of the anti-designated hitter crowd...

 

[intlzncster]

Pathetic comment, this warrants nothing else.

Way to refute Deep's points. Insightful analysis. Probably should at least bring something to the table.

Yankee fans in this thread remind me of Syracuse fans.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

Way to refute Deep's points. Insightful analysis.

Yankee fans in this thread remind me of Syracuse fans.

This is what I think of when they post:

 

[Fishy]

Good riddance to this Jeter retirement nonsense. Overrated his entire career, right through to the last game.

Remember when you absolutely sucked his dick here after the Mets' World Series? I sure do.

We'll all pick this up again in five years when he first-ballots into the Hall of Fame and all your undies get all in a twist again.