OT: Brady out for 4 and Pats lose a first round pick. Nm

[Bonehead]

'Sources told Schefter that Brady is open to accepting some form of suspension but only if it's for failing to cooperate with the NFL rather than admitting to the Wells report findings. However, sources say the NFL has no made such settlement offer and there are no plans to offer one as of now.' - ESPN

I don't know if that is true or not but would leave a boat load of questions unanswered...settling for anything at this point would come off as a sign of guilt - even for failing to cooperate.

 

[Husky25]

'Sources told Schefter that Brady is open to accepting some form of suspension but only if it's for failing to cooperate with the NFL rather than admitting to the Wells report findings. However, sources say the NFL has no made such settlement offer and there are no plans to offer one as of now.' - ESPN

I don't know if that is true or not but would leave a boat load of questions unanswered...settling for anything at this point would come off as a sign of guilt - even for failing to cooperate.

That was yesterday afternoon/this morning before the hearing. Considering the final two tweets above, I can't see a scenario where Brady settles for a suspension at this point. Only a Favre-ian level fine ($50k, which coincidentally, Brady just donated to the Jimmy Fund.). However, I am not a lawyer.

 

[upstater]

One, the bit about Brady agreeing to a suspension came from the NFL and it was all made up.

Two, http://sports.yahoo.com/news/deflat...crows--192153861.html?soc_src=mail&soc_trk=ma

The judge stated the exact thing I have from the very beginning. There is absolutely no evidence that the AFC Championship game balls were deflated. Any circumstantial info from text messages came from May 2014, not the game. The judge is emphasizing what happened in the game, and not what was written in texts in the spring. This is like getting stopped for smoking pot, but there's no smell of pot (the cop smelled incense) and no pot in the vehicle. They look at your cell phone and find a reefer crack from many months back.

And even if there were video evidence from the game of McNally letting out air (on the sideline even) it's not any different from other teams doing it, like the Vikings or Panthers. But there's no video, just 90 seconds in the bathroom with 24 balls.

 

[Husky25]

This was interesting:

"This is a disputed grievance," Nash argued.

It may be a salient legal point and one that will win the case for the NFL. Berman, though, didn't appear moved by it. The judge repeatedly noted that just because something is collectively bargained doesn't mean it can violate federal law.

I'm not going to break my arm trying to pat myself on the back, but I'm pretty sure I've made that point somewhere.

That's not what they agreed to. Goodell circumvented the spirit of the CBA by having Vincent "hand down" the punishment. Everyone and their brother knows it was Goodell.
Depending on the Judge (Presumably Doty), The United States Constitution may just supersede the NFL Collective Bargaining Agreement.

 

[Bonehead]

This was interesting: I'm not going to break my arm trying to pat myself on the back, but I'm pretty sure I've made that point somewhere.

Or a lower leg injury jumping up and down...



I am going to sit back and let it play out. Either way will be interesting.

 

[FrostyNuggets]

'Sources told Schefter that Brady is open to accepting some form of suspension but only if it's for failing to cooperate with the NFL rather than admitting to the Wells report findings. However, sources say the NFL has no made such settlement offer and there are no plans to offer one as of now.' - ESPN

I don't know if that is true or not but would leave a boat load of questions unanswered...settling for anything at this point would come off as a sign of guilt - even for failing to cooperate.

If ESPN is reporting it first, rest assured its coming from the NFL. The NFL's track record for leaking anything truthful is "0 for story".

 

[CL82]

Good article in SI on status of appeal - Link
Particularly good on how much weight to apply to the the judge's current comments.
@Husky25

 

[Husky25]

Good article in SI on status of appeal - Link
Particularly good on how much weight to apply to the the judge's current comments.
@Husky25

Out of the 1,734 word in that article only about 345 are pro-NFL. After you get by point #1, 35 words, all of which refer to point #1, appear).

1. Do I like Tom Brady? As a player, yes. He QB's my second favorite team.

2. Do I think he did anything wrong? No, but the phone thing is bad optics.

3. Do I believe anything in the Wells Report? Yes, but it is not an independent report, Judge Berman said as much on the record. It leaves out a lot of facts, takes a large number of others out of context, and reads more like a list of charges that a prosecutor would write. Brady should have been able to publicly refute it on the record prior to his appeal. Brady also has the presumption of innocence, physical science, as well as faulty procedure on his side. The NFL has conjecture and public opinion. Neither hold much sway in a court of law.

4. Do I think Brady should be punished? At most, a fine and absolution from the NFL from deflating football. That won't happen, so it should be made clear that any punishment is for the possibility of non-cooperation, seeing as the Wells report already says he did satisfactorily cooperated.

 

[Husky25]

Ultimately, I think Judge Berman will vacate this punishment (suspension and loss of wages) and throw it back to the NFL, with a strong reprimand. Goodell will then be required to appoint a truly independent arbiter. Brady will state his case and may ultimately be absolved that way.

Goodell will "resign" by the time the new CBA is negotiated and the cash cow that is the NFL will continue to thrive. Goodell has made these 32 men a lot of money, but ultimately they would rather make like the old school Mafia heads. Goodell is John Gotti, to their Carlo Gambino.

 

[upstater]

Ultimately, I think Judge Berman will vacate this punishment (suspension and loss of wages) and throw it back to the NFL, with a strong reprimand. Goodell will then be required to appoint a truly independent arbiter. Brady will state his case and may ultimately be absolved that way.

Goodell will "resign" by the time the new CBA is negotiated and the cash cow that is the NFL will continue to thrive. Goodell has made these 32 men a lot of money, but ultimately they would rather make like the old school Mafia heads. Goodell is John Gotti, to their Carlo Gambino.

Goodell can't appoint an indy arbitrator. That's the whole point here. He will not elect to do that unless forced.

 

[Husky25]

Goodell can't appoint an indy arbitrator. That's the whole point here. He will not elect to do that unless forced.

IMO, Judge Berman will rule that the original arbiter was biased. He will ordered Goodell to get an unbiased (less biased) arbiter.

 

[FrostyNuggets]

Ultimately, I think Judge Berman will vacate this punishment (suspension and loss of wages) and throw it back to the NFL, with a strong reprimand. Goodell will then be required to appoint a truly independent arbiter. Brady will state his case and may ultimately be absolved that way.

Goodell will "resign" by the time the new CBA is negotiated and the cash cow that is the NFL will continue to thrive. Goodell has made these 32 men a lot of money, but ultimately they would rather make like the old school Mafia heads. Goodell is John Gotti, to their Carlo Gambino.

Goodell is doing exactly what is being asked of him by the majority of owners. He is going nowhere.

The fact that the Patriots had 2 draft picks taken away from them without any evidence being able to stand up to the simplest of scrutiny speaks more to the lack of credibility in the league than anything the Pats are accused of doing.

 

[huskypantz]

Goodell is doing exactly what is being asked of him by the majority of owners. He is going nowhere.

The fact that the Patriots had 2 draft picks taken away from them without any evidence being able to stand up to the simplest of scrutiny speaks more to the lack of credibility in the league than anything the Pats are accused of doing.

You have to wonder what kind of backlash the Pats will get if this if the penalties are completely overturned. I know there can be no retribution, but I'd imagine that some of the folks who wanted this to happen will put the Pats under even closer scrutiny.

 

[upstater]

IMO, Judge Berman will rule that the original arbiter was biased. He will ordered Goodell to get an unbiased (less biased) arbiter.

I don't think he can make that order. Can he? I think he is there to judge on the award, not to negotiate the CBA.

 

[Husky25]

I don't think he can make that order. Can he? I think he is there to judge on the award, not to negotiate the CBA.

Per Dan Wentzel of Yahoo:

"This is a disputed grievance," Nash argued.

It may be a salient legal point and one that will win the case for the NFL. Berman, though, didn't appear moved by it. The judge repeatedly noted that just because something is collectively bargained doesn't mean it can violate federal law.

The Bill of Rights address: 1. Due process, 2. Self -incrimination, and 3. illegal search and seizure (had it happened.).

Also, I think the fact that NFL filed first to affirm their ruling, they allow the Judge to review facts of the case and if the judgement fit the actions based on precedent. The Judge is not limited to reviewing procedure, which I believe is all Brady would have been able to appeal had he acted first.

 

[Mike75]

Per Dan Wentzel of Yahoo:



The Bill of Rights address: 1. Due process, 2. Self -incrimination, and 3. illegal search and seizure (had it happened.).

This is a civil case, not a criminal one. Item 1 applies (to some extent), but 2 and 3 do not.

 

[upstater]

I think the judge can strongly recommend things like an arbitrator. This is part of the settlement conferences currently being held. But at the end of the day, when everyone leaves that court room on August 31st without a settlement, it is the judge's duty to affirm or reject the award. And that will be the only decision he can make after August 31st. Despite what a lot of people are saying, I think the case is done, one way or another, if it gets by August 31st.

 

[Husky25]

This is a civil case, not a criminal one. Item 1 applies (to some extent), but 2 and 3 do not.

I believe they are actually a series of administrative hearings, but at any rate, happy readying.

APPLICATION OF PRIVILEGE TO CIVIL CASES

 

[freescooter]

Something doesn't have to violate the Constitution to violate federal law. A simple example could be that a collective bargaining agreement says employees will be paid 6.00/hr but that is below the minimum wage so it doesn't matter what the contract says. There are a myriad of federal rules governing labor relations and arbitration. You can't bargain those away even if you are willing to do so just like you can't bargain away the minimum wage even if you are willing to do so. That is the judge's point.

 

[Bonehead]

Pat fans seem to have a read on the judge.

I am SO hoping that read is wrong purely for the entertainment value...

 

[Husky25]

I think the judge can strongly recommend things like an arbitrator. This is part of the settlement conferences currently being held. But at the end of the day, when everyone leaves that court room on August 31st without a settlement, it is the judge's duty to affirm or reject the award. And that will be the only decision he can make after August 31st. Despite what a lot of people are saying, I think the case is done, one way or another, if it gets by August 31st.

Doubtful.

Check out this Pro Football Talk article by Mike Florio. he sets out 7 - 8 things that could go into a ruling.

In lieu of affirming the four-game suspension or wiping it out entirely and giving Brady the right to play all 16 regular-season games in 2015 and beyond, Judge Berman could simply vacate the arbitration award entered by Commissioner Roger Goodell and send the case back to him for further proceedings. Judge Berman could do so with specific instructions aimed at correcting multiple flaws from the first appeal hearing before Commissioner Roger Goodell.
...

UPDATE 9:40 a.m. ET: Judge Berman also could simply send the thing back for a do-over with the requirement that an independent arbitrator be used. The independent arbitrator would then potential order many of the things listed above.

 

[Husky25]

Something doesn't have to violate the Constitution to violate federal law. A simple example could be that a collective bargaining agreement says employees will be paid 6.00/hr but that is below the minimum wage so it doesn't matter what the contract says. There are a myriad of federal rules governing labor relations and arbitration. You can't bargain those away even if you are willing to do so just like you can't bargain away the minimum wage even if you are willing to do so. That is the judge's point.

Absolutely, but it helps if a certain violation is spelled out as an unalienable right and explicitly protected by the Bill of Rights.

 

[upstater]

Pat fans seem to have a read on the judge.

I am SO hoping that read is wrong purely for the entertainment value...

There is no read.

He is killing the NFL.

That desn't mean he will rule for Brady.

But he is bashing the NFL because the NFL has no evidence, rigged this thing against Brady, contradicts themselves daily, conducts themselves dishonestly.

But at the end f the day, if the NFLPA gave Goodell the right to do all this without a care about fairness, then the judge may say he was within the CBAs boundaries.

 

[Bonehead]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...ng-believed-patriots-were-bugging-locker-room

"I know that that is very true, and, you know, as Peyton talked to guys who played for the Patriots, some of the guys who came over—whether it’s true or not he treated it as true," Dungy said. "We didn’t have a lot of strategy discussions inside the locker room there."

 

[Waquoit]

Nah, this kinda sounds like the baseball free agency case. There the arbiter suggested the league settle because they wouldn't like the decision.