OT: Boneyard "Other Football" World Cup Thread

[whaler11]

bumping this up for those that joined. Let's go Brazil v Argentina!

Guy in first place bumping the pool back up...

I hope you win because I'll finish second but can't catch you because we match the rest of the games.

 

[SubbaBub]

Can someone explain why the Olympics matter to me? From my untrained eye it seems like an unimportant U21 tourney.

It's thought to be a bellwether for the future of the senior team. Mexico winning was huge for them. It also gave them the confidence to find the right coach. Their 2013 results were unreal given the talent they had coming up.

In contrast, our U23 efforts have been abysmal. So, JK has taken to recruiting duel nationals and taking over the development program. 2016 will be big for the US senior team pipeline.

 

[SubbaBub]

So now we are making stuff up to prove he is/would be our most productive offensive player???? Ok what if Klestjan had subbed in and provided an assist? I guess he's our most productive offensive player now.

I certainly don't hate him. Just understand Klinsmann's reluctance to use a player he doesn't trust.

And I don't consider it indisputable, but that's just my opinion.

Klestjan is horrible. Using him as an example shows a lack of taste.

 

[Waquoit]

I know we are supposed to hate Mushnick. but I like this from today's column:

"See? That wasn’t so bad, was it? Even the guy at the end of the bar Tuesday, who kept making cynical cracks about soccer, didn’t take his eyes off USA-Belgium. He was into it!

Based on retired Post reporter Bernie Bard’s credo, “If it’s not catered, it’s not journalism,” I went on a bar/restaurant pulse-check during the four US World Cup games. One in Asbury Park, NJ, two in Monmouth County, one in Wappingers Falls, NY.

All patrons were into it. I’m not suggesting that more than a few first-timers became soccer fans, but it was fun to witness Americans who gathered, formed crowds — cheering, groaning, friendly crowds — to watch soccer.
Several times I witnessed soccer fans happy to explain to the uninitiated — stranger to stranger — the game’s rules. The matches inspired a nice group comfort food scene and feel, like a cold beer with a side of hot chicken soup.

And, if nothing else, hundreds of thousands of Americans now know what American soccer fans have long known: Tim Howard, 35-year-old Jersey guy, is a fantastic goalkeeper."

Hate soccer if you must, but it's your loss.

 

[Kgun7]

It's thought to be a bellwether for the future of the senior team. Mexico winning was huge for them. It also gave them the confidence to find the right coach. Their 2013 results were unreal given the talent they had coming up.

In contrast, our U23 efforts have been abysmal. So, JK has taken to recruiting duel nationals and taking over the development program. 2016 will be big for the US senior team pipeline.

I think abysmal May be a little harsh ... They were a Sean Johnson short hop from qualifying for London. And recruiting duel nationals is nothing new or exclusive to Klinsmann.

 

[meyers7]

Klestjan is horrible. Using him as an example shows a lack of taste.

]
LOL.

Shows the folly of your point.

 

[BlueMAB]

I agree that Klinsmann is focused on 2018; but, I firmly believe he wanted to advance as far as possible in 2012 (quarters against Argentina was likely the goal). After all, just look at his history, the guy hates to lose. Ask the German football federation, ask all the teams he screwed with his dives, ask LD.

If he hated to lose that much, he wouldn't have taken the USMNT job, understanding the task in front of him.

You can hate to lose, and accept you're going to suffer some as you build toward the future.

 

[BlueMAB]

Apparently, Joachim Low must read the Boneyard!

He apparently gave his unsolicited opinion on the English national team predicament, and offered the following advice:

http://www.espnfc.us/fifa-world-cup...n-english-premier-league-for-englands-failure

God, I wish Jogi would stop stealing my material...

I skimmed through the article, but I'm not sure he mentioned that 7 players for Germany play for one team in the Bundesliga. If 7 guys from Germany all played for one team in the EPL I'm pretty sure they'd still be damn good.

 

[UConnDan97]

I skimmed through the article, but I'm not sure he mentioned that 7 players for Germany play for one team in the Bundesliga. If 7 guys from Germany all played for one team in the EPL I'm pretty sure they'd still be damn good.

The top money clubs in one's country are always going to be able to attract the top talent, but the point is this: developing your national youth, through both a strong youth development program as well as having a healthy percentage of homegrown opportunities in your top league, lead to top notch national teams. The reason why 7 players from the national squad play for 1 club team probably has more to do with purchasing power rather than one club having a secret formula that the others don't...

Addendum: In case my rambling up top wasn't clear, let's look at the 7 players you mentioned from Bayern Munich. Of the 7, all seven have played their entire professional career in Germany (*except 1 year for Boateng), but not all started out at Bayern.

Neuer - started at Schalke
Lahm - Bayern the whole way
Boateng - started at Hertha Berlin (*1 year at Manchester City in 2011)
Schweinsteiger - Bayern the whole way
Muller - Bayern the whole way
Kroos - started at Hansa Rostock
Gotze - started at Borussia Dortmund

 

[FrostyNuggets]

I know we are supposed to hate Mushnick. but I like this from today's column:

"See? That wasn’t so bad, was it? Even the guy at the end of the bar Tuesday, who kept making cynical cracks about soccer, didn’t take his eyes off USA-Belgium. He was into it!

Based on retired Post reporter Bernie Bard’s credo, “If it’s not catered, it’s not journalism,” I went on a bar/restaurant pulse-check during the four US World Cup games. One in Asbury Park, NJ, two in Monmouth County, one in Wappingers Falls, NY.

All patrons were into it. I’m not suggesting that more than a few first-timers became soccer fans, but it was fun to witness Americans who gathered, formed crowds — cheering, groaning, friendly crowds — to watch soccer.
Several times I witnessed soccer fans happy to explain to the uninitiated — stranger to stranger — the game’s rules. The matches inspired a nice group comfort food scene and feel, like a cold beer with a side of hot chicken soup.

And, if nothing else, hundreds of thousands of Americans now know what American soccer fans have long known: Tim Howard, 35-year-old Jersey guy, is a fantastic goalkeeper."

Hate soccer if you must, but it's your loss.

Pretty sure Mushnick broke in covering the studio 54 era Cosmos

 

[FrostyNuggets]

The top money clubs in one's country are always going to be able to attract the top talent, but the point is this: developing your national youth, through both a strong youth development program as well as having a healthy percentage of homegrown opportunities in your top league, lead to top notch national teams. The reason why 7 players from the national squad play for 1 club team probably has more to do with purchasing power rather than one club having a secret formula that the others don't...

Addendum: In case my rambling up top wasn't clear, let's look at the 7 players you mentioned from Bayern Munich. Of the 7, all seven have played their entire professional career in Germany (*except 1 year for Boateng), but not all started out at Bayern.

Neuer - started at Schalke
Lahm - Bayern the whole way
Boateng - started at Hertha Berlin (*1 year at Manchester City in 2011)
Schweinsteiger - Bayern the whole way
Muller - Bayern the whole way
Kroos - started at Hansa Rostock
Gotze - started at Borussia Dortmund

Bayern also have the Dutch's best player (Robben) and France's (Ribery) best player.

 

[junglehusky]

Wow... Felix Magath (manager of Fulham, kind of looks like an accountant) ripped Donovan. I mean, really ripped him. I'm assuming he has ties to Klinsmann?

“Now comes a mediocre player with a plaintive interview and false claims, and denounces the work of the coach," Magath wrote in German. "The player Landon Donovan, at Bayern, was once considered unsuitable for the second team. I find such behavior unspeakable, unworthy of an international player."

"Players who do not make it to the team should question themselves and do anything in their power to get back into the team, through hard work, and not announce their wounded vanity with verbal attacks."

"There is another way. My former player Raul, as a player and a person is very successful and respected in football. He always displayed highly professional behavior, he was a true role model and many would do well to follow him."

So uh... I guess Donovan won't be going on loan to Fulham anytime soon.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

If he hated to lose that much, he wouldn't have taken the USMNT job, understanding the task in front of him.

You can hate to lose, and accept you're going to suffer some as you build toward the future.

Klinsmann sees the potential that the US has in soccer like many do and he will not be suffering too much. The US has proven it can be the top dog in CONCANA or at least neck and neck with Mexico. That is a lot of winning today. With success comes more resources and more interest, and the US has a lot of resources and potential soccer players. That is why Klinsmann wanted control of the development programs in the US. He knows its just a matter of time before the US has a deep enough pool of talent to be able to win it all. If the US can deliver a World Cup title by 2022, even if he s not the coach at that time, he knows he will get a lot of the credit and his legacy will be set in stone in 2 countries. That's a big win. Plus, he gets to enjoy the lifestyle he wants in SoCal for him and his family while doing it.

 

[ZooCougar]

Wow... Felix Magath (manager of Fulham, kind of looks like an accountant) ripped Donovan. I mean, really ripped him. I'm assuming he has ties to Klinsmann?



So uh... I guess Donovan won't be going on loan to Fulham anytime soon.

This is what the international community thinks of landycakes.

 

[Mots010]

Ticos looking about as good as the USA did against Belgium and Germany. Bunkering, and hoping to catch lightning with Campbell, with a little help from some great goalkeeping. Jeez, imagine if Campbell goes down with a pulled hammy at the 20th minute of their opener? Think they make it to the round of 16?

 

[Gurleyman]

Ticos looking about as good as the USA did against Belgium and Germany. Bunkering, and hoping to catch lightning with Campbell, with a little help from some great goalkeeping. Jeez, imagine if Campbell goes down with a pulled hammy at the 20th minute of their opener? Think they make it to the round of 16?

Damn. Argentina's goalie made all of one save against Belgium to shut them out. One shot on net. We were pretty much crap (besides Howard).

Costa Rica's bunker looked ok through 80 (six shots allowed, three on net), but then Dutch started peppering them. Not sure if Ticos can get to PKs this time.

 

[Mots010]

Costa Rica just had their first shot on net and first corner 115 minutes in. Thats bunkering at a new level.

 

[Sleepy]

Ticos looking about as good as the USA did against Belgium and Germany. Bunkering, and hoping to catch lightning with Campbell, with a little help from some great goalkeeping. Jeez, imagine if Campbell goes down with a pulled hammy at the 20th minute of their opener? Think they make it to the round of 16?

Dutch Coach Van Gaal looks like a freaking genius, bringing in a backup GK in Krul at 120 minutes. Krul guessed right on all five kicks, and saved 2 to be the hero.

 

[Gurleyman]

This is what the international community thinks of landycakes.

Well, a Bundesliga buddy of Klinsmann sticking up for him (which he is entitled to), and someone perhaps a bit salty since he just coached Fulham right out of the Premier League. But certainly the international community isn't thinking of Landon Donovan's name when they discuss the great players of this generation. That's entirely fair. As is the point that he shouldn't be so candid in his analysis so soon after being cut (when asked to analyze - as opposed to posting a diatribe to a Facebook page which is sort of pathetic - he should just shack up with Raul and be done with it).

However, you wonder what German people would think of Donovan had Oliver Kahn not stopped him in 2002 on a goal that FIFA would still be using in World Cup promos with Maradona ones. Megs a guy, cuts past another, and threads a rocket through the needle heading right for the corner, but somehow Kahn saves it (hate that guy - but Frings even more). We've played Germany 3 times in the WC now - a notoriously tough team to break down - and nobody has come close to unlocking their defense like this (or Belgium for that matter, until the Bradley-Green connection down 2-0). He had two other chances he could have done better with in those highlights - didn't get a good hit on one in the second half which took some individual brilliance to bring it down into space to shoot.



It actually would be nice if the USA had developed some younger guys with Donovan's skillset in the last 12 years so that we didn't need him in this cycle. But we haven't, and instead we have to play people out of position all over the field and look impotent serving the ball on set pieces. My point in posting that video isn't to say that Donovan could do that any more because he can't (nor could he probably outrun Brazil for 100 yards to score like he did in 2009 Confed Cup, or put a desperate team on his back like he did against Slovenia). But rather just to point out that a salty German coach would look at Donovan a lot differently to this day had Germany been struck by that wundergoal. And if we're accepting a Facebook post that Donovan is just some mediocre hack who isn't good enough for the international game, then maybe we need to get to work producing a #10 of better class. Because we haven't come frickin' close, and I don't see a person on the horizon at the moment who can do it (but that can change quickly).

 

[Mots010]

When we get a player with Donovan's natural ability, we need to make damn sure they stay in Europe. If LD had Demarcus Beasley's work ethic, we could have had a guy starring on champions league teams for a decade. That would have done way more for US soccer than him settling in the MLS.

 

[UConnDan97]

Well, a Bundesliga buddy of Klinsmann sticking up for him (which he is entitled to), and someone perhaps a bit salty since he just coached Fulham right out of the Premier League. But certainly the international community isn't thinking of Landon Donovan's name when they discuss the great players of this generation. That's entirely fair. As is the point that he shouldn't be so candid in his analysis so soon after being cut (when asked to analyze - as opposed to posting a diatribe to a Facebook page which is sort of pathetic - he should just shack up with Raul and be done with it).

However, you wonder what German people would think of Donovan had Oliver Kahn not stopped him in 2002 on a goal that FIFA would still be using in World Cup promos with Maradona ones. Megs a guy, cuts past another, and threads a rocket through the needle heading right for the corner, but somehow Kahn saves it (hate that guy - but Frings even more). We've played Germany 3 times in the WC now - a notoriously tough team to break down - and nobody has come close to unlocking their defense like this (or Belgium for that matter, until the Bradley-Green connection down 2-0). He had two other chances he could have done better with in those highlights - didn't get a good hit on one in the second half which took some individual brilliance to bring it down into space to shoot.



It actually would be nice if the USA had developed some younger guys with Donovan's skillset in the last 12 years so that we didn't need him in this cycle. But we haven't, and instead we have to play people out of position all over the field and look impotent serving the ball on set pieces. My point in posting that video isn't to say that Donovan could do that any more because he can't (nor could he probably outrun Brazil for 100 yards to score like he did in 2009 Confed Cup, or put a desperate team on his back like he did against Slovenia). But rather just to point out that a salty German coach would look at Donovan a lot differently to this day had Germany been struck by that wundergoal. And if we're accepting a Facebook post that Donovan is just some mediocre hack who isn't good enough for the international game, then maybe we need to get to work producing a #10 of better class. Because we haven't come frickin' close, and I don't see a person on the horizon at the moment who can do it (but that can change quickly).

One of my biggest regrets was that John O'Brien's career was cut short due to injury. He was a fantastic player. And the attack of Reyna, O'Brien, and Donovan has been a hard act to follow for the US, especially from a ballskill standpoint. We miss that dynamic passer, even on this team today. If Dempsey and Bradley had a dynamic passer to support their efforts, I suspect we would have beaten Belgium...

 

[meyers7]

One of my biggest regrets was that John O'Brien's career was cut short due to injury. He was a fantastic player. And the attack of Reyna, O'Brien, and Donovan has been a hard act to follow for the US, especially from a ballskill standpoint. We miss that dynamic passer, even on this team today. If Dempsey and Bradley had a dynamic passer to support their efforts, I suspect we would have beaten Belgium...

JOB was one of my favorites. Maybe Gil or Zelalem will come good (for the USA).

 

[Sleepy]

JOB was one of my favorites. Maybe Gil or Zelalem will come good (for the USA).

It would be nice to have a central midfielder who was really strong on the ball, really just possess the ball and inject some calmness into the team, yet make the quick decisions and passes when required. I think Claudio Reyna might have been the last to really be able to do those things well.

 

[ZooCougar]

One of my biggest regrets was that John O'Brien's career was cut short due to injury. He was a fantastic player. And the attack of Reyna, O'Brien, and Donovan has been a hard act to follow for the US, especially from a ballskill standpoint. We miss that dynamic passer, even on this team today. If Dempsey and Bradley had a dynamic passer to support their efforts, I suspect we would have beaten Belgium...

That team was loaded with players with extensive European experience, other than Reyna and O'Brien, you had guys like Tony Sanneh, Frankie Hejduk, Greg Berhalter, and Joe Max-Moore among others.

 

[ZooCougar]

Well, a Bundesliga buddy of Klinsmann sticking up for him (which he is entitled to), and someone perhaps a bit salty since he just coached Fulham right out of the Premier League. But certainly the international community isn't thinking of Landon Donovan's name when they discuss the great players of this generation. That's entirely fair. As is the point that he shouldn't be so candid in his analysis so soon after being cut (when asked to analyze - as opposed to posting a diatribe to a Facebook page which is sort of pathetic - he should just shack up with Raul and be done with it).

However, you wonder what German people would think of Donovan had Oliver Kahn not stopped him in 2002 on a goal that FIFA would still be using in World Cup promos with Maradona ones. Megs a guy, cuts past another, and threads a rocket through the needle heading right for the corner, but somehow Kahn saves it (hate that guy - but Frings even more). We've played Germany 3 times in the WC now - a notoriously tough team to break down - and nobody has come close to unlocking their defense like this (or Belgium for that matter, until the Bradley-Green connection down 2-0). He had two other chances he could have done better with in those highlights - didn't get a good hit on one in the second half which took some individual brilliance to bring it down into space to shoot.



It actually would be nice if the USA had developed some younger guys with Donovan's skillset in the last 12 years so that we didn't need him in this cycle. But we haven't, and instead we have to play people out of position all over the field and look impotent serving the ball on set pieces. My point in posting that video isn't to say that Donovan could do that any more because he can't (nor could he probably outrun Brazil for 100 yards to score like he did in 2009 Confed Cup, or put a desperate team on his back like he did against Slovenia). But rather just to point out that a salty German coach would look at Donovan a lot differently to this day had Germany been struck by that wundergoal. And if we're accepting a Facebook post that Donovan is just some mediocre hack who isn't good enough for the international game, then maybe we need to get to work producing a #10 of better class. Because we haven't come frickin' close, and I don't see a person on the horizon at the moment who can do it (but that can change quickly).

Thanks for the replay. I was at that game. After that one, the Germans became high on Donovan yet again, really after that one run. Well, you know the rest of the story, and that was 12 years ago.