OT: Boneyard "Other Football" World Cup Thread

[ZooCougar]

Don't forget the CopaAmerica 2016 here in the states.

I knew I was missing one.

 

[whaler11]

I don't know that they didn't go all in on this tournament. And whatever chance they gave themselves, they did advance. So....??


True, they were not exactly who we thought they were.

We've been through this a bunch of times. Sometimes you hit on 14 against a 6 and draw a 7. Doesn't mean it was a good decision.

 

[SubbaBub]

Sure, but I don't consider (and most people don't consider) players you can't trust as your best players.

The two are not mutually exclusive. Our most productive offensive player in Brazil was...Dempsey for the first minute, then bounced one off his stomach, Johnson who didn't play the full 90 vs. Belgium, Yedlin? Green? Brooks? Jones? I think a 220-230 minutes out of 390 minutes play Donovan would have been at least as productive. I would imagine he sub v. Ghana for Jozy, starts vs. Portugal for Bedoya, sub v. Germany and start vs. Belgium playing about 25, 65, 15, 120 mins in the 4 games. You don't think he would have assisted or scored on at least one more goal that the 5 we scored? I can't understand how anyone wouldn't. Heck, he scored 3 in two games for the Galaxy after being cut. Dempsey did something similar in the run up and he was considered on fire.

I just don't get the hate for the indisputable best US field player of all time and he held that title until very recently.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

I see both points to the 'Donovan' issue. LD carries some of the blame for taking a sabbatical and giving the impression that he was not 100% committed to the USMNT while Klinsmann clearly butted head with LD and put his personal feelings above the interests of the team because LD at 75% is still one of the top 23 US soccer players out there and could have been used as a very flexible and valuable sub. Did his absence cost the US in the 2014 Cup? Maybe. But, advancing out of the Group of Death and then losing to Belgium (basically run over if it was not for Howard and a little (good) fortune from Green and (bad) from Wondo validates both arguments.

That said, the good news is that the drama of 2014 is over. We can debate LD over and over; but, neither he (especially after yesterday's rant) nor the 2014 Cup are coming back. It's about as useful as me sending Hugh Dallas a new pair of glasses in the hope that he cans see where Torsten Frings's left hand so that the US can get a do over with Germany from back in 2002.

For now, let's savor thee experience, good and bad, the US had with the 2014 Cup. Embrace it. Grow from it. Klimsmann is right in that the focus is now on 2018. Many players due to age and/or limited upside will not be coming back. So, new blood needs to be called in to begin working on the 2018 team with a focus on qualifying for the 2016 Olympics (not qualifying for the 2012 Olympics really did hurt US development) along with mixing old and new for the Gold and Copa Cups.

Oh, by the way, qualifying for the 2018 World Cup in Russia will begin in less than 2 years. It's also possible by that time, the US may know that it will be hosting 2022 Cup. If that is the case, there will be significant pressure on the US to have a strong showing in Russia (quarterfinals or better) in order to build-up for 2022 when it will be expected, unlike 1994, for the US to win the Cup on home soil.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

That's so interesting. The British shows I listen to were raving about Klinsmann and wondering if they could lure him away.

Have you seen how England has done in the World Cup in the last 30 years?

• 2014: Failed to advance from Group Play
• 2010: Crushed in Sweet 16 by Germany
• 2006: Loses to Portugal on PK's in Quarterfinals
• 2002: Loses to Brazil in Quarterfinals
• 1998: Loses to Argentina on PK's in Sweet 16
• 1994: Failed to qualify
• 1990: Loses to (West) Germany on PK's in Semi-finals
• 1986: Loses to Argentina and Maradona's Hand of God in the Quarterfinals
• 1982: Falls in Second round after tying both (West) Germany and Spain

England expects to win the Cup each time. At this point, they would take any coach who can do something different, especially a German coach (can't beat 'em, join 'em) and they may consider parting with the Crown Jewels to have a keeper like Howard on the team.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

To be fair ... Cameron is a right back for Stoke and is pretty active in the attack. His inclusion as a DM, positioned just in front of Besler and Gonzalez, was designed to push the Belgian attack out wide. For 90+ minutes (thanks in large part to Howard) it worked.

And I'm going on the record to say that I think Belgium is stronger than Germany right now. The 2 games cannot be compared because they were each played under totally different circumstances, but I believe Belgium is the better team.

True, I agree that Belgium has more skill; but, Germany has more experience and savvy. Even if the Red Devils were able to pepper the net against Germany as they did the US, Germany is lethal and would have converted on at least one of the US missed opportunities and may have walked away with a win.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

I don't have the time to get caught up on the last 2-3 pages, so apologies if this has been said/discussed. My final word on LD is that the team would have been better with him on the roster. Most of the JK apologists even admit that. LD at 80-90% for 10-20 minutes is better than Aron Johansson at 100% for 45-90.

I also firmly believe that JK didn't expect to make it out of the group stage. I think he saw the group of death, figured the team was a long shot to advance, and decided to bring more youth to prepare for 2018. IMO he knew that if he didn't get out of the group of death, there wouldn't be much criticism, and if he did, then great, mission accomplished.

I agree that Klinsmann is focused on 2018; but, I firmly believe he wanted to advance as far as possible in 2012 (quarters against Argentina was likely the goal). After all, just look at his history, the guy hates to lose. Ask the German football federation, ask all the teams he screwed with his dives, ask LD.

 

[whaler11]

Yet you think he's our most productive offensive player??????

"Was" I'll agree, "is" eh not so sure.

Good coaches trust talent.

I'll give you a very easy example that folks here can relate to: Ray Allen being available to knock down a three in the Finals when the chips are on the line.

Ray in his late 30's isn't going to give you 40 minutes of solid defense... but when you need offense from someone who doesn't wilt in the moment maybe go with someone who gets it.

 

[whaler11]

I don't have the time to get caught up on the last 2-3 pages, so apologies if this has been said/discussed. My final word on LD is that the team would have been better with him on the roster. Most of the JK apologists even admit that. LD at 80-90% for 10-20 minutes is better than Aron Johansson at 100% for 45-90.

I also firmly believe that JK didn't expect to make it out of the group stage. I think he saw the group of death, figured the team was a long shot to advance, and decided to bring more youth to prepare for 2018. IMO he knew that if he didn't get out of the group of death, there wouldn't be much criticism, and if he did, then great, mission accomplished.

Yes, Wing-U summed it up in two paragraphs. Why would you argue this?

 

[DarthGrumpy]

Don't forget the CopaAmerica 2016 here in the states.

I wonder how the US will handle playing in two distinctive tournaments at the same time - Copa America in June and Olympics in August of 2016. Both will be very important to the US; but for different reasons.

 

[whaler11]

Can someone explain why the Olympics matter to me? From my untrained eye it seems like an unimportant U21 tourney.

 

[UCFBfan]

Can someone explain why the Olympics matter to me? From my untrained eye it seems like an unimportant U21 tourney.

I agree with this. The only reason I like it is because it's a mini World Cup almost, minus the bigger names. It's something to fill the summer with in between World Cup cycles. I believe teams are allowed 3 over 21 players, correct? My thought is, it's a chance to give the younger players experience playing on a bigger stage? We didn't even qualify last Olympics on the men's side of things. I'm more excited for the Euros which I believe are the same year. Yeah, the US isn't involved, but it's high level soccer from big power countries.

 

[Mots010]

Good coaches trust talent. I'll give you a very easy example that folks here can relate to: Ray Allen being available to knock down a three in the Finals when the chips are on the line. Ray in his late 30's isn't going to give you 40 minutes of solid defense... but when you need offense from someone who doesn't wilt in the moment maybe go with someone who gets it.

Say that coach is Popovich and the Spurs are looking for some three-point shooting prior to the trade deadline. In the season prior, Ray bailed on his team for two months during the playoff hunt because he was tired. Then in the few months before the trade deadline this year Ray shot 20% from the three. Throw in the fact that Ray would answer every question thrown at him by the press regardless of how stupid it makes him look. Is that the guy you want to throw on your team right before the playoffs?

I watched that ESPN behind-the-scenes show prior to the World Cup and I saw Michael Bradley come about as close as you can to saying Donovan quit on the team as you can get. I wouldn't be surprised if there was some huge behind-the-scenes spat between Donovan and Klinsmann that never came out.

 

[UConnDan97]

I could be wrong, but I think this strategy is counter-productive. Let the players play where they want, and they're most wanted. Imagine if the NBA had this. Outside of Miami, does anyone really not enjoy watching the Spurs play?

Apparently, Joachim Low must read the Boneyard!

He apparently gave his unsolicited opinion on the English national team predicament, and offered the following advice:

http://www.espnfc.us/fifa-world-cup...n-english-premier-league-for-englands-failure

God, I wish Jogi would stop stealing my material...

 

[ZooCougar]

Can someone explain why the Olympics matter to me? From my untrained eye it seems like an unimportant U21 tourney.

Might be the second biggest global tournament other than than the confed cup.

 

[whaler11]

Might be the second biggest global tournament other than than the confed cup.

Ok I'll get more interested. Am I wrong it's U21?

 

[progrocks]

the Olympics is an U23 tournament that usually involves a few overage players added to the squad.

I can not believe people are advocating EJ. He has been horrible this year and his form gets him no where near this squad. What he COULD be is a different thing.

LD would have made my squad but I have no issue with him not making JK's. Plus soccer is much different than the NBA and getting that specialist in that you only have 3 subs and they have to finish the game. Being able to sub at will in basketball makes pure specialization much more easy.

And the difference with Chandler is also that he did not walk away from soccer all together, just playing international soccer for a bit. He was there each week for his club, Landon was not. Playing in the America's is quite the commitment for a European based player, that is some crazy travel they have to do, and it certainly takes away from their club team. It is a hell of a balancing act.

If the friendlies for the rest of the year will include more of the 12-35 spots in the pool, with an eye toward the younger end of it too, great to be able to see that for a bit. We need more kids to see what JK wants and expects, and send them back to their clubs with a mission.

 

[Da_Aisijimo_Gou]

For US naysayers, coming right back for your regular weekly viewing pleaure:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=EEwR3RurxAM

 

[ZooCougar]

Ok I'll get more interested. Am I wrong it's U21?

Except for three players on the roster.

 

[meyers7]

I would imagine he sub v. Ghana for Jozy, starts vs. Portugal for Bedoya, sub v. Germany and start vs. Belgium playing about 25, 65, 15, 120 mins in the 4 games. You don't think he would have assisted or scored on at least one more goal that the 5 we scored?

So now we are making stuff up to prove he is/would be our most productive offensive player???? Ok what if Klestjan had subbed in and provided an assist? I guess he's our most productive offensive player now.

I just don't get the hate for the indisputable best US field player of all time and he held that title until very recently.

I certainly don't hate him. Just understand Klinsmann's reluctance to use a player he doesn't trust.

And I don't consider it indisputable, but that's just my opinion.

 

[meyers7]

Good coaches trust talent.

I'll give you a very easy example that folks here can relate to: Ray Allen being available to knock down a three in the Finals when the chips are on the line.

Ray in his late 30's isn't going to give you 40 minutes of solid defense... but when you need offense from someone who doesn't wilt in the moment maybe go with someone who gets it.

I don't recall Ray Allen wussing out on his coach twice???

I don't think you guys get this. Maybe you have never coached?? When a player let's you down twice and then implies he might do it again, it's really hard to trust them. At some point you think ok, fine I'll go with the players I know will give 100%. You might take that third chance, but if he let's you down again, it's on you.

 

[meyers7]

Can someone explain why the Olympics matter to me? From my untrained eye it seems like an unimportant U21 tourney.

It's a U23 tourney. It's a chance for the younger kids to get a chance playing in a big tourney. A lot of future stars come out of it. Can be a big tryout for the National team. It has some of the top young guns out there. Big shop window for a lot of the players.

It's not the WC or the Euro's but it's a pretty good tourney.

 

[meyers7]

For US naysayers, coming right back for your regular weekly viewing pleaure:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=EEwR3RurxAM

August 16th, first games.

The Community Shield game is Aug 10th. Manchester City vs Arsenal.

Champions League play-in games start the week of Aug 19/20th.

 

[UConnDan97]

Playing in the America's is quite the commitment for a European based player, that is some crazy travel they have to do, and it certainly takes away from their club team. It is a hell of a balancing act.

This comment is beyond ridiculous. It really is.

So JK will empathize with a European-based player for the brutal commitment of having to travel to America, while at the same time, advocating for American-based national team players to join teams in Europe??? Yeah...okay...

 

[SAMCRO]

Sorry to interrupt the flow of conversation but I set up a World Cup Bracket Pool on ESPN. Here's the info:

Get in the action now:
Click Here

Group: The Boneyard Pool
Password: uconn

bumping this up for those that joined. Let's go Brazil v Argentina!