New York Liberty and Kiah.....

[HuskyPup]

With a few games left in the regular season it's obvious that the Liberty was a great place for Kiah. With the tuteledge of Tina and Swin, Kiah has shown even for a rookie, how she can impact any game she's in. My oh my wouldn't it be great if she was in the running for rookie of the year, defensive player of the year as well as 6th woman of the year all in 2015.......great job Kiah. I was at the game last night and I wonder if the Sun regret passing on Kiah who played in it's own backyard. The sky is the limit for you Kiah, you make us all proud. Keep up the great work . PS I'm not a big Laimbeer fan, but I love how he utilizes Kiah's defensive prowess to help win games.

 

[DaddyChoc]

nah... Laimbeer worked with her, other coaches would have thought she was that same ol' player from UConn.

DPOY is possible but doesnt it go to Griner or do those 7 missed games disqualify her?

 

[rvwsleep]

Kiah IS the same player that she was on UConn and there's nothing wrong with that. Look at the stats.
---------------------------- UConn----Liberty
Points per game--------------4.5-------6.2
Rebounds per game----------6.6-------6.8
Blocks per game--------------3.6-------2.1
Not a huge difference until you look at her stats per 40 minutes

Points per 40 mins --------- 10.0 ------9.8

Rebounds per 40 mins----- 15.8------10.8

Blocked shots per 40 mins--8.0-------3.3

The first column is her per 40 minute stats in her last year at UConn. The second column is her per 40 minute stats this season on the Liberty.
Kiah's stats were actually much better in her senior year at UConn, per 40 minutes. The reason why the per game stats are close comes from the fact that she's playing 25.3 minutes per game with the Liberty as opposed to the 17.9 minutes per game (a 41 % increase in minutes played per game) that she played in her senior year with the Huskies.

 

[xHunt3r]

Stats against college players(with a lot of blow outs in the American) vs stats against professional players. You have to take into consideration the level of competition... while the raw numbers aren't better, the level of competition is much higher. Yes she is the same player in that defense and rebounding are her best contributions to the team, but I'd say Kiah is performing better this year then last given the huge jump in level of competition.

 

[rvwsleep]

Stats against college players(with a lot of blow outs in the American) vs stats against professional players. You have to take into consideration the level of competition... while the raw numbers aren't better, the level of competition is much higher. Yes she is the same player in that defense and rebounding are her best contributions to the team, but I'd say Kiah is performing better this year then last given the huge jump in level of competition.

I agree, with her additional playing time and considering the level of competition, I think that Kiash is playing very well this year. The decrease in her stats on a per minute basis is directly related to the level of competition. I brought up those stats to show that there hasn't been a huge jump in her effectiveness this year and it's not something that her new coach is doing that her old coach wasn't. She's less effective with the Liberty compared with her last year with UConn, but as you state "the level of competition is much higher". Is she playing better ? Probably. I would expect a player her age to keep getting incrementally better.

 

[msf22b]

Stats against college players(with a lot of blow outs in the American) vs stats against professional players. You have to take into consideration the level of competition... while the raw numbers aren't better, the level of competition is much higher. Yes she is the same player in that defense and rebounding are her best contributions to the team, but I'd say Kiah is performing better this year then last given the huge jump in level of competition.

As I noted in another thread, Kiah's blocks are down because players in the W play a slightly more intelligent game and have multiple opportunities to consider the outcome if they insist on challenging her...so they don't...or at least not as much.

The result is often a skewed, out of kilter offense, a Liberty win, and an outrageous positive number for Kiah...like +23, the last game...
Ridiculous!

If she is not the defensive player of the year, then she is a close second to woman-mountain- dean who has some physical advantages.

I propose that Kiah is the more effective defender and has positively affected more games

 

[Bgillon]

nah... Laimbeer worked with her, other coaches would have thought she was that same ol' player from UConn.

DPOY is possible but doesnt it go to Griner or do those 7 missed games disqualify her?

Why can't we enjoy Kiah's growth as a player instead of attaching a negative to the coaching she received at UCONN. I saw a quote where Lambeer said she would be a journeyman WNBA player and he was happy with that. While the level of competition has increased, so has Kiah's time and energy increased for focusing on basketball. She is having a very good season for the Liberty and she got that chance because of four years with Geno and staff .

 

[msf22b]

Why can't we enjoy Kiah's growth as a player instead of attaching a negative to the coaching she received at UCONN. I saw a quote where Lambeer said she would be a journeyman WNBA player and he was happy with that. While the level of competition has increased, so has Kiah's time and energy increased for focusing on basketball. She is having a very good season for the Liberty and she got that chance because of four years with Geno and staff .

There is one difference:

Gene almost always expressed exasperation with regard Kiah's (shallwe say) progress.
Bill has been constantly supportive

Means something I think.

 

[Bgillon]

Geno coached Kiah for 4 years, Bill has coached her for 4 minutes.

 

[HGN]

Kiah is having a great Rookie season.......She definitely should be the DROY. I don't think there is another rookie even close.

 

[Aluminny69]

Watched the Storm-Mystics game last night. Have to admit, Jewel Loyd looked really good. She will be very difficult to beat for ROY.

 

[JSB60]

Watched the Storm-Mystics game last night. Have to admit, Jewel Loyd looked really good. She will be very difficult to beat for ROY.

Jewell will probably get it because she was a higher draft pick, but Kiah deserves serious consideration.

Jewell: 10.2 PPG, 3.7 RPG, 1.8 APG, 0.2 BPG
Kiah: 6.2 PPG, 6.8 RPG, 0.8 APG, 2.1 BPG

These are very comparable, possibly a slight edge to Kiah. Even more so because Kiah is on a good team, which Jewel is not.

 

[HuskyPup]

I

I agree, with her additional playing time and considering the level of competition, I think that Kiash is playing very well this year. The decrease in her stats on a per minute basis is directly related to the level of competition. I brought up those stats to show that there hasn't been a huge jump in her effectiveness this year and it's not something that her new coach is doing that her old coach wasn't. She's less effective with the Liberty compared with her last year with UConn, but as you state "the level of competition is much higher". Is she playing better ? Probably. I would expect a player her age to keep getting incrementally better.

I completely agree...let's see...
Brittney Griner Tamika Catchings
Elana Delle Donne Erika De Souza
Kelsey Bone Steph Dolson
Danielle Adams Nneke Ogwumike
Jantel Lavender Courtney Paris
just to name a few.......

Kiah battles an all -star every night...I think its safe to say shes doing GREAT ! Definitely not the competition of the AAC.
So all you haters just continue to hate. Kiah is playing great and she's with a coach who truly appreciates her talents. Before anyone says anything that's not a knock on the Geno. His style didn't fit Kiah and vice versa. Get over it. New page...new book. Go Liberty!!!!!

 

[Bgillon]

I


I completely agree...let's see...
Brittney Griner Tamika Catchings
Elana Delle Donne Erika De Souza
Kelsey Bone Steph Dolson
Danielle Adams Nneke Ogwumike
Jantel Lavender Courtney Paris
just to name a few..

Kiah battles an all -star every night...I think its safe to say shes doing GREAT ! Definitely not the competition of the AAC.
So all you haters just continue to hate. Kiah is playing great and she's with a coach who truly appreciates her talents. Before anyone says anything that's not a knock on the Geno. His style didn't fit Kiah and vice versa. Get over it. New page...new book. Go Liberty!!!!!

I agree. New page so why bring up Geno and staff? It appears you can't get over saying that Laimbeer in 4 minutes has transformed Kiah. I thought she was just what UCONN needed and now it appears she is just what the Liberty needs. So Kiah has/is provided/providing what her team needed. What a perfect definition for a team player!

 

[HuskyPup]

I agree. New page so why bring up Geno and staff? It appears you can't get over saying that Laimbeer in 4 minutes has transformed Kiah. I thought she was just what UCONN needed and now it appears she is just what the Liberty needs. So Kiah has/is provided/providing what her team needed. What a perfect definition for a team player!

I never said Laimbeer did anything in 4 minutes.....Kiah is who she is because of who she is......I only brought up Geno because many people seem to think that Geno's style works for everyone that comes to UConn. And I think Geno said himself that if you don't succeed at UConn you probably won't succeed at the next level. I think Kiah is challenging that statement although I personally feel she was a success at UConn. Yes he probably was frustrated with Kiah but I have to believe that having Laimbeer as her coach is a breath of fresh air. She's sure playing like it and no one can dispute that. Bobby Knight said that basketball is 4 parts mental and 1 part physical. It my opinion that mentally Kiah is enjoying her new team, coaches, city and fans and that's translating to her on the court performance. "if you feel good you play good" I just made that up but it works in this case! Lol!

 

[msf22b]

On this board... and on the newer one, forget it.
Geno is canonized
Beyond criticism, beyond discussion .

Yet, with all his success, he's had his shaky moments.
Even the occasional self-doubt, in public.
And for some (perhaps not many) , he wasn't the perfect coach

As Husky Pup noted: comparing Kiah's similar statistics with those of her college career is nonsensical.
Look who she's guarding.

Kiah's play is a revelation; she appears liberated.
Bill and Co. have to be a big part of that.
How can it not be? Even if it took only 4 minutes.

Now one can always argue that even if she frustrated some (of the staff) at UConn, they kept after her, never gave up...
And ultimately fashioned her into what she now is...fair enough

But what we see now, under different leadership
Is a player entirely more competitive, aggressive and confident
A player who may very well develop into an all-star.
Who might yet turn into the distaff version of Bill Russell.
I look forward to observing her development

What a great story is Ms. Kiah Stokes
I sure hope that her dad is enjoying it.

 

[bellairehusky]

My two cents...
Kiah always played according to the talent on the floor.
She showed up in the bigger games.
Was it not her inconsistency between big games/inconsequential games that got Geno after her?

I always believed Kiah was super talented.
I always believed she would be a pretty good WNBA player.
I also cannot dismiss a HOF coach who sees her 20+ hours/week for four straight years.

Kiah has not changed.
In the WNBA, she has to bring it every night.
Bigger games, bigger names, bigger Kiah.
The coaching is not better.

Kiah is who she is.
Kiah is who we thought she was.

Sorry my modern poetry is not as good.

 

[rvwsleep]

On this board... and on the newer one, forget it.
Geno is canonized
Beyond criticism, beyond discussion .

Yet, with all his success, he's had his shaky moments.
Even the occasional self-doubt, in public.
And for some (perhaps not many) , he wasn't the perfect coach

As Husky Pup noted: comparing Kiah's similar statistics with those of her college career is nonsensical.
Look who she's guarding.

Kiah's play is a revelation; she appears liberated.
Bill and Co. have to be a big part of that.
How can it not be? Even if it took only 4 minutes.

Now one can always argue that even if she frustrated some (of the staff) at UConn, they kept after her, never gave up...
And ultimately fashioned her into what she now is...fair enough

But what we see now, under different leadership
Is a player entirely more competitive, aggressive and confident
A player who may very well develop into an all-star.
Who might yet turn into the distaff version of Bill Russell.
I look forward to observing her development

What a great story is Ms. Kiah Stokes
I sure hope that her dad is enjoying it.

True, Geno is not perfect. The problem is you're taking the wrong player to make that case. Stokes is not do anything that she didn't do at UConn.
Points per minute, blocks per minute, rebounds per minute are all down from what she did at UConn but that's understandable considering the increase in the level of competition. She's averaging 6.2 points per game and that's playing 26+ minutes a game. What is this "revelation" that you mention ? I've watched a fair number of Liberty games this year, some in person. I haven't seen Kiah do anything that she didn't do at UConn. Either in quality or quantity. To me, she's playing the same way that she did for the Huskies, just more minutes.
Also, what is the newer board that you mention ?

 

[Bgillon]

True, Geno is not perfect. The problem is you're taking the wrong player to make that case. Stokes is not do anything that she didn't do at UConn.
Points per minute, blocks per minute, rebounds per minute are all down from what she did at UConn but that's understandable considering the increase in the level of competition. She's averaging 6.2 points per game and that's playing 26+ minutes a game. What is this "revelation" that you mention ? I've watched a fair number of Liberty games this year, some in person. I haven't seen Kiah do anything that she didn't do at UConn. Either in quality or quantity. To me, she's playing the same way that she did for the Huskies, just more minutes.
Also, what is the newer board that you mention ?

Well said but don't confuse them with facts and personal observations.

 

[iri10]

It's mostly intangibles that are impressive about Kiah's role this year, not the statistics. Her minutes are up in a league where the weakest players are equivalent to college all-Americans, and the best are multiple notches ahead of any collegian. And they're important minutes; she is quite often trusted to pull her weight at the end of games, guarding some tough opponents like EDD, etc.

So while you can argue over whether or not she is better now than she was at UConn (I think she is, albeit only modestly so far), I don't think you can argue that she hasn't seen an upjumping in her importance to her team this year. While I have no doubt that Geno valued what she could do, Laimbeer values it even more (and needs it even more).

 

[ThisJustIn]

I'm confused at the desire for some to diminish Geno and the team's coaching of Kiah as opposed to celebrating her evolution. I guess it makes them feel superior to be able to "criticize" Geno, but to me, especially in this case, it's a lot of sound and fury signifying nothing.

 

[DaddyChoc]

fans were just as frustrated with Stokes and the UConn staff... lets not act like we didnt expect me and are currently suprised AND happy that she's playing well. Who to praise, who to blame is just a matter of opinion and everyone has one.

Kiah is also collecting a check, thats a good tool to teach with as well

 

[RSHERMVIKES]

Watched the Storm-Mystics game last night. Have to admit, Jewel Loyd looked really good. She will be very difficult to beat for ROY.

I think the difference is Kiah has been performing at this high level all season while Jewel started 2 or 3 games and went to the bench and her time dwindled down, then post all-star game she's come on! Something has to be said for consistency! Also the Liberty has the best record in the WNBA and Kiah has been a huge part of that while Jewel hasn't driven Seattle to any heights! Granted talent's different but they still haven't moved up!
Then again we're talking about the media who have no idea what it takes to be successful! They get a thought in their heads and nothing changes their minds! Jewel over Kiah in college so Jewel must be over Kiah in the WNBA!

 

[Scotter]

There is one difference:

Gene almost always expressed exasperation with regard Kiah's (shallwe say) progress.
Bill has been constantly supportive

Means something I think.

It means the difference coaching comments has changed the perception of Kiah's play far more than her actual play has changed.

 

[JSB60]

Much as I always thought she could have done more at UCONN, maybe we make too much of the negative side of her college career. Her time in Storrs was marked by three rings and being the first player off the bench during two championship runs. Not chopped liver. If she hadn't been here, both of the last two championships would have been much harder to win, and who would have wanted to play against her?