NCAA tournament; are any of these programs better than ours? | The Boneyard

NCAA tournament; are any of these programs better than ours?

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There was all this talk about "blue bloods" and such after the championship last year but I think a lot of people continue to discredit UCONN basketball. Programs currently in the tournament:

Utah
Gonzaga
Notre Dame
Oklahoma
Wisconsin all do not have anything close to an argument as far as being a better program than UCONN

Louisville and Michigan St are kinda in the same boat. L-Ville had the championship recently and both programs consistently get deep in the tournament but do not have the NBA pedigree or championship success that the Huskies have.

Duke and Kentucky both have pretty good arguments. Kentucky probably a better one. What do you all think? Is UCONN still a top 5 program in college hoops even without the tourney this year? Especially compared to the other teams, some storied, left in the tournament?
 

caw

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There was all this talk about "blue bloods" and such after the championship last year but I think a lot of people continue to discredit UCONN basketball. Programs currently in the tournament:

Utah
Gonzaga
Notre Dame
Oklahoma
Wisconsin all do not have anything close to an argument as far as being a better program than UCONN

Louisville and Michigan St are kinda in the same boat. L-Ville had the championship recently and both programs consistently get deep in the tournament but do not have the NBA pedigree or championship success that the Huskies have.

Duke and Kentucky both have pretty good arguments. Kentucky probably a better one. What do you all think? Is UCONN still a top 5 program in college hoops even without the tourney this year? Especially compared to the other teams, some storied, left in the tournament?

UCLA
UK
KU
UNC
Duke

Those five are pretty clearly historically better programs. You can argue that UCLA has fallen off a bit but they still have their championships.

UL, UConn and IU are probably the next 3 in some order. It would take a few more years and championships to break into the top 5.

Then you have programs like Zona, MSU, UF, Cuse, Maryland, etc.
 
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Wisconsin ALWAYS seems to be top 15ish and deep in the tourney.
 

TRest

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It's great for MSU, for instance, to always be there and make a run deep into the tourney. But the object is to win it all. In the last 20 years we have done as much as anyone.
 
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No, but this year was all about Kentucky playing duke in the final. 25 year anniversary of the laetner shot, they drag that d bag out of some retirement hell hole and put him in ads with some of the best players of all time, and they have been forecasting this final since October. Add in the duke over undefeated unlv, a duke v ky final was inevitable this year. How I never saw it makes me extremely naive in retrospect. I'm actually kind of glad we were not part of this bs charade. If I am wrong, and I hope to any higher power that could listen that I am, feel free to slam me next Saturday night, but this looks obvious now.
 

Matrim55

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Historically we're somewhere between 6th and 8th all-time.

The top four:
UCLA
UK
UNC
KU

Titles, Final Fours, history, branding, tons of NBA stars, and success across multiple coaches

The question mark:
Duke

All of the above, but only great success under one coach. What happens when K retires? My guess is that Duke will still be elite, but that's only a guess - we don't know for sure. And we know that while UCLA has been a great program over the last 40 years, they've still never really recovered from losing Wooden.

Our group:
Indiana
UConn
Louisville

Titles, Final Fours, history, success across multiple coaches. Of the three schools, only Indiana has the "blue blood" brand; only UConn has produced NBA stars consistently; and only Lousiville, over the last decade, has gone deep in the tournament pretty much every year.

The pack:
Michigan State
Florida
Arizona

One more title and MSU joins our tier. They've got two championships with two different coaches, a good brand, etc. Florida is more questionable b/c their only sustained success has come under Donovan, while Arizona is knocking on the door.

I think schools like Syracuse, Michigan, Ohio State, Maryland, NC State and Georgetown are in the next group. I'm sure there are others, but I'm just kind of blanking on who really deserves a shout and who's just hot at the moment.
 
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I attended Notre Dame, but I grew up as a UConn fan and had the pleasure of cheering on Tony Hanson for one year and Jim Abromaitis for 3 while in high school. I remember the Yankee Conference.

I like Matrims list, although I would probably drop UConn down a tad to the pack, mostly due to longevity. The Huskies were not a national team until about 1990, and their real success only spans 15-16 years. Thay have 4 titles, but those are also their only Final Fours. Teams like Louisville and Indiana have had many more Final Four appearances (and in Indiana's case, titles) dating back to the 40s, Duke had at least 3 FFs I can think of in the mid 60s and one in 1978:(.

IMO, 16 years is not really enough time be called a top 5 all-time program. However, I can assure you fans of college basketball (as opposed to those who merely fans of one school) do have great respect for the current Husky program.
 
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I'd put UCLA, UNC, Duke, Kentucky and Kansas in that top-5, but i'm really hard pressed to rank any one else NOT in that group ahead of UConn.

My tiers would be:
UCLA
North Carolina
Duke
Kentucky
Kansas

UConn
Louisville
Indiana
Michigan State


After that you've got a real dog pile. Syracuse, Georgetown, Villanova, Florida, Arizona, Ohio State... have to be in the convo - but on the whole, there have been peaks and valleys with all those programs and the resume just isn't as deep. You have some others too - like Cincinnati for instance - that probably rely a little more on historical power that could be in that top 20.. but yeah, that's how i'd rank em...
 
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UConn has 5 final fours, the championship years and 2009.

Oops, forgot about that one, I sit corrected. Still keeps it within the past 15-16 years. Like I sad, I grew up a UConn fan (my parents were both alums and I was accepted there many years ago) and I still root for them except against ND. But in my mind, all time programs require longevity and UConn does not have that. They weren't even in a decent conference until the Big East started up in the early 80s.

Tough part about these lists is how the tournament has changed over the years. Before 1975 or so, only one team per conference went to the NCAA Tournament. I remember a year when #3 Maryland lost to #2 North Carolina in OT in the ACC Tournament final. Both teams were potential FF teams; Maryland had to settle for the NIT.

Both the Big 10 and ACC had teams in the 50s and 60s that would have had decent chances at FFs but were shut out.
 

CAHUSKY

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. I remember a year when #3 Maryland lost to #2 North Carolina in OT in the ACC Tournament final. Both teams were potential FF teams; Maryland had to settle for the NIT.

It was NC State (#1) and Maryland (#4). And Maryland turned down the NIT bid after the loss.
 
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I could care less where we rank, we are a blue blood thats all that matters thats no longer a question. Everyone knows were a blue blood they just don't know where to rank us, some people are uncomfortable to put Uconn above some of the programs that have been have been a national brand since the 60s and beyond. We beat Duke twice in a FF, and UK twice in a FF that has to count for something. 5 FF and 4 National Championships and we have had some squads that have had near misses.

1990
Laettner buzzer beater (As close to a FF as you can get, ok we probably lose to a loaded UNLV squad)

1994
UF Sweet 16in OT missed Fts cost us UF goes to the FF

1995
Elite 8 Losing to UCLA in the elite 8 in LA they go on to win it all

1996
Sweet 16 Missisippistate, lost Ricky Moore to injury, MSstate goes on to the FF

1998
Elite 8 to UNC in Charlotte, a year away

2002
Elite 8 veteran Maryland team, we had the 2nd best team in that tournament

2003
Texas in Texas, close game a year away

2006
We all know how that ended, and we still had the Elite 8 come down to a last shot, despite all the distractions suspensions etc.

2009
With Jerome Dyson we are probably right there with UNC, but still got to the FF

It shows you we have had some bad luck (which is part of the tournament)other wise we might have more titles, I know other programs can say the same thing well so can we. FF are great but what draw did some of those programs get in order to get to a FF.
 
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If MSU wins it all they deserve to be along side us. Izzo has a stellar program year in and year out. Haven't heard a word about corrupt or illegal issues with what he's doing. And certainly no one talks about ref favoritism like other coaches. He's seems to have done it the right way.

Even if he doesn't win another he has built a top 10 program that any MSU fan could be proud of.

They are probably one of a handful of programs out there I truly respect.
 
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There was all this talk about "blue bloods" and such after the championship last year but I think a lot of people continue to discredit UCONN basketball. Programs currently in the tournament:

Utah
Gonzaga
Notre Dame
Oklahoma
Wisconsin all do not have anything close to an argument as far as being a better program than UCONN

Louisville and Michigan St are kinda in the same boat. L-Ville had the championship recently and both programs consistently get deep in the tournament but do not have the NBA pedigree or championship success that the Huskies have.

Duke and Kentucky both have pretty good arguments. Kentucky probably a better one. What do you all think? Is UCONN still a top 5 program in college hoops even without the tourney this year? Especially compared to the other teams, some storied, left in the tournament?
the insecurity around here is amazing sometimes...

 
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Wisconsin ALWAYS seems to be top 15ish and deep in the tourney.
Meh, 4 Elite Eights since 2000, we have 6. I could push it back to 1995, since which we have appeared in 9 (UW still 4), because in that twenty year time span, we have not gone more than 3 years without appearing in the Elite Eight.

Last year's Elite Eight for Wisconsin was their first in 9 years.

And to address some other posts ITT, if you played at UConn for 4 years in that same time span, you were statistically guaranteed to appear in the Final Four. Kansas can't say either of that. Neither can UK, nor UCLA, nor UNC. Duke can't say the former. UConn has dominated the sport for the most recent 6th of its existence, and hasn't showed signs of stopping yet. History is nice, but there is no question that UConn belongs with UNC, KU, Puke, UCLA, and UK.

Also

 
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We're also good for an NIT or nothing once every couple years.
 
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Historically we're somewhere between 6th and 8th all-time.

The top four:
UCLA
UK
UNC
KU

Titles, Final Fours, history, branding, tons of NBA stars, and success across multiple coaches

The question mark:
Duke

All of the above, but only great success under one coach. What happens when K retires? My guess is that Duke will still be elite, but that's only a guess - we don't know for sure. And we know that while UCLA has been a great program over the last 40 years, they've still never really recovered from losing Wooden.

They have a much better history than us pre-Calhoun. They were a year removed from the NCAA title game K's first year, and had some very good teams in the 60's and 70's.
 
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All time: In the #8-12 range [Behind UCLA, UK, KU, Duke, UNC, Indiana, MSU, Louisville]
Recent history (last 20-25 years): #3-5 at worst [Behind Duke, UK]
Present outlook: #10-20 and at risk of further slippage if conference situation does not improve
 
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You can make an argument that Louisville trumps us, despite the 4 to 3 title advantage. I don't love it, but I sort of buy it the same way I do Kansas. They each double up our Final Four total, and have success going further back.

I simply refuse to accept MSU is a better program than ours historically. They went to 2 Final Fours before Izzo, and won 1 title in the 1979. It isn't nothing, but it's not enough.

Even with those, they have 8 Final Fours to our 5. We have 4 titles to their 2. I'd much rather be us. They have 2 more Elite 8s than us all time, including this year.

This is just one of those where 4 titles and a bunch of Final Fours, trumps 2 titles and a few more.
 

Matrim55

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They have a much better history than us pre-Calhoun. They were a year removed from the NCAA title game K's first year, and had some very good teams in the 60's and 70's.
Yes, they did have a better history than us, but still far from elite. Four Final 4s, no titles, and a clear "third best" tag behind UNC and NC State in Carolina. Nobody could seriously have argued for Duke as college basketball royalty until K.

Then look at the teams in that top 4. Every one of them has had at least two coaches who've won titles, and have done it over a longer timeline.

BTW, it's worth noting that before the field expanded in '85, we'd made 13 appearances to Duke's 9. So we weren't nothing.
 
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We're also good for an NIT or nothing once every couple years.
Is that supposed to be some kind of pathetic counter to an Elite Eight every 3 years, a Final Four every 4 years, and 4 National Championships?

You spoiled bitch, lmao
 
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As far as ranking the most successful schools in D-1 basketball history you have to take into account first, NCAA titles and second Final Four appearances. Who put more guys in the NBA? The average college hoops fan wouldn't be able to give you a top ten list but I'd guess that it would be pretty close to a titles or final four list anyways, at least for the top 5 or 6 schools.. Blue bloods of the college basketball world? Here's my list:
  1. UCLA: 11 titles, 17 Final Fours, 80 NBA players
  2. Kentucky: 8 titles, 16 Final Fours, 82 NBA players(most of any school)
  3. North Carolina: 5 titles, 18 Final Fours(most of any school), 81 NBA players
  4. Duke: 4 titles, 15 Final Fours, 60 NBA players
  5. Indiana: 5 titles, 8 Final Fours, 55 NBA players
  6. Kansas: 3 titles, 14 Final Fours, 62 NBA players
  7. Louisville: 3 titles, 10 Final Fours, 49 NBA players
  8. UConn: 4 titles, 5 Final Fours, 34 NBA players(surprisingly Temple and Marquette have put more into the NBA but that will change most likely this year or next)
  9. Michigan St: 2 titles, 8 Final Fours, 38 NBA players
  10. Cincinnati: 2 titles, 6 Final Fours, 31 NBA players
    There are others of course that could be considered for a top ten list of basketball blue bloods. Florida for example with their 2 titles.
 

gtcam

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As far as ranking the most successful schools in D-1 basketball history you have to take into account first, NCAA titles and second Final Four appearances. Who put more guys in the NBA? The average college hoops fan wouldn't be able to give you a top ten list but I'd guess that it would be pretty close to a titles or final four list anyways, at least for the top 5 or 6 schools.. Blue bloods of the college basketball world? Here's my list:
  1. UCLA: 11 titles, 17 Final Fours, 80 NBA players
  2. Kentucky: 8 titles, 16 Final Fours, 82 NBA players(most of any school)
  3. North Carolina: 5 titles, 18 Final Fours(most of any school), 81 NBA players
  4. Duke: 4 titles, 15 Final Fours, 60 NBA players
  5. Indiana: 5 titles, 8 Final Fours, 55 NBA players
  6. Kansas: 3 titles, 14 Final Fours, 62 NBA players
  7. Louisville: 3 titles, 10 Final Fours, 49 NBA players
  8. UConn: 4 titles, 5 Final Fours, 34 NBA players(surprisingly Temple and Marquette have put more into the NBA but that will change most likely this year or next)
  9. Michigan St: 2 titles, 8 Final Fours, 38 NBA players
  10. Cincinnati: 2 titles, 6 Final Fours, 31 NBA players
    There are others of course that could be considered for a top ten list of basketball blue bloods. Florida for example with their 2 titles.
The bottom line is titles and UConn is ranked tied at number 4
You can argue recent history (last 25 years) when its been more competitive vs all time going back 75 years.
Final Fours, NBA players, etc. are all sexy but how many times did you ring the bell? - also how many times did you get to that final game and come out the bride vs the bridesmaid?
 
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Yes, they did have a better history than us, but still far from elite. Four Final 4s, no titles, and a clear "third best" tag behind UNC and NC State in Carolina. Nobody could seriously have argued for Duke as college basketball royalty until K.

Then look at the teams in that top 4. Every one of them has had at least two coaches who've won titles, and have done it over a longer timeline.

BTW, it's worth noting that before the field expanded in '85, we'd made 13 appearances to Duke's 9. So we weren't nothing.

Agreed we weren't nothing. Just noting that Duke had more tourney success. And, you are right, most of their success has been under K's tenure. He's who you think about when one mentions Duke.

Four FF's before K is close to (but not the same as) two coaches with a title. It's very high level success. And you are right, they are in the rich Tobacco Road. They aren't going anywhere. Post K, they may stumble as UNC did after Smith, but they'll bring in someone who will right the ship. They belong in that top tier.
 
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Is that supposed to be some kind of pathetic counter to an Elite Eight every 3 years, a Final Four every 4 years, and 4 National Championships?

You spoiled bitch, lmao
Just saying all of those schools we're supposed to be lightyears ahead of are in the dance every year and we are not. That counts for something.
 
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