Maryland is subpoenaing the world

[billybud]

I don't know a single taxi driver.

My father is older than Pakistan. I prefer reference to my ancient blood, which is Pashtun.

Most of the Pathans are from Afghanistan. Winston Churchill once pointed out something about Pathan (Pashtun) culture that made me think of the culture of my mother's people of Wilcox County, Alabama.

Churchill pointed out... "Every man is a warrior, a politician and a theologian. Every family cultivates its vendetta; every clan, its feud.... Nothing is ever forgotten and very few debts are left unpaid."

So southern....I feel right at home with that.

 

[billybud]

You realize Maryland owns more national and ACC titles than every ACC school save UNC, right?

Yeah....and Princeton still owns more football national championships then almost anybody.

But Maryland, of late, had become a dumpster fire.

I really do hope that Maryland can rise like the phoenix from the ashes of that dumpster...the alternative is to remember those championships much in the way an aging spinster might finger a long desiccated corsage in a scrap book while shedding a tear for what once was.

 

[businesslawyer]

I understand your perspective on Louisville; however, I am curious why the ACC did not make a more significant move before Maryland left and while Syracuse and Pitt were being considered for membership and Louisville was not yet in the conversation.

Why not invite Rutgers and UConn along with Syracuse and Pitt? I understand this would not appease the southernmost ACC schools and make BC unhappy. However, it really could have been the next move in a larger acquisition rather than the end game.

With Pitt, Syracuse, Rutgers and UConn no longer in play, the Big Ten has nowhere along the East Coast to expand. Perhaps Maryland still would be a consideration; however, they would have been a 13th school without a 14th school available making a move to the Big Ten less likely to happen.

We know that Penn State is an eastern outlier in the Big Ten and there was concern, based on comments from ADs Alvarez and Smith, that Penn State might reconsider their membership in the Big Ten given this situation. Given the presence of all their regional rivals - Maryland, Pitt, Syracuse, Rutgers - now in the ACC and no other East Coast partners for the Big Ten to offer Penn State, perhaps that is enough to entice Penn State to the ACC?

If Penn State goes to the ACC in this scenario, then perhaps the ACC can hit the grand slam and entice Notre Dame to join full time as the 18th school and partner to Penn State as the 17th school. Regardless a 16 team ACC with the addition of Pitt, Syracuse, Rutgers and UConn along with retention of Maryland would be a fantastic conference and leave open the option to entice national brands to join.

Because it would have weakened the ACC's football conference even more than it did. And the perception of ACC football (whatever computer rankings show year to year) is that it is second to hoops and it is behind the Big Ten, Big XII, SEC and Pac Ten.

 

[billybud]

As Swofford has said...up until about 10 years ago, basketball was the ACC breadwinner.

The conference was taken by surprise by the quick rise of football monies. In media contracting discussions the ACC found out that ESPN estimated that the football value to be as much as 80% of the total contract value.

And with conferences locked in a fight to the knife for the spot at the big table, several ACC football programs fretting about the ACC's perceptive place, pundits claiming that FSU would never play in a playoff game, a football oriented move was called for.

Whether real gain or imaginary, it was the perception that counted. Sometimes you have to swing, even if the ball is off the plate.

 

[bingethinker]

Yeah....and Princeton still owns more football national championships then almost anybody.

But Maryland, of late, had become a dumpster fire.

I really do hope that Maryland can rise like the phoenix from the ashes of that dumpster...the alternative is to remember those championships much in the way an aging spinster might finger a long desiccated corsage in a scrap book while shedding a tear for what once was.

The difference between Princeton's football titles and Maryland's ACC and national titles is that one happened contemporarily and the other did not. I don't have the numbers in front of me -- and perhaps it's something I'd look into when I leave the office -- but Maryland hasn't really dropped off its yearly average for conference titles or national titles.

If Maryland is able to rack up more hardware in-conference and nationally than every ACC member sans North Carolina while being a "dumpster fire", I wonder what that says about the 14 other ACC members?

 

[billybud]

Don't know...but the 2-22 ACC football record against FSU...the 63-0 football shellacking that FSU put on the Terps this year, cemented in my mind the total crap that the football program had become.

Maryland wasn't always such football dreck....but since 2003 they have been a slide....six losing seasons, a couple of 2-10 years.

I will stipulate that the Terps have been better than Duke....

 

[CL82]

Not sure where you get the 3 million figure from, but the REAL number of residents in the 12 Northern NJ counties that make up the NYC DMA is 5,994,000

That doesn't include the population from the 8 South Jersey Counties that are part of the Philly market....thus increasing our value to the Big Ten Network in that DMA.

And you know darn well that the block R's are everywhere in North Jersey. To say otherwise is just not being honest. They are completely statewide now.

I got the 3 mil number from early numbers, if the correct number is 5 mil that's fine, the point remains the same. Do you know which counties are included? I've seen it but I forget. I think it goes as far south as Middlesex, correct? If so your number makes sense to me.

I live in Morris County. The big red R is pretty scarce up here, probably because RU isn't a preference for college in my area. That's not a knock, it's a good school, just not a preferred one.

In any event my post wasn't a shot at RU. I was trying explain what RU brought to the table. From your post I think we pretty much agree.

 

[btstimpy]

Don't know...but the 2-22 ACC football record against FSU...the 63-0 football shellacking that FSU put on the Terps this year, cemented in my mind the total crap that the football program had become.

Maryland wasn't always such football dreck....but since 2003 they have been a slide....six losing seasons, a couple of 2-10 years.

I will stipulate that the Terps have been better than Duke....

I have to stick up for Maryland a little here. Maryland has won a lot of ACC titles over the years. And Debbie Yow has really boosted Maryland's womens's sports. The Maryland women's lacrosse has been flat out dominant. Many of Maryland's NCAA championships are in women's lacrosse. It is sad to see that athletic department have to shut down sports. Hopefully the Big Ten will help.

I know that Nicky will object, but in comparison "What the Hell has Rutgers done athletically?" I at least see a reason to defend Maryland.

 

[billybud]

Bombing out in football while winning in women's lacrosse....a decent trade.

But I am with you, Maryland needed a change up and maybe the move will give them a kick start.

 

[billybud]

OT...that smallish guard from Georgetown was a nifty player, But GT plays a much different offense than the days when they had a monster at post.

Sadly, attendance was 3510. I wonder if the culture could ever be changed. Would folks like me start supporting basketball here?

But...to be fair to FSU fans, Rocky III was on TV.

 

[buggsy]

I got the 3 mil number from early numbers, if the correct number is 5 mil that's fine, the point remains the same. Do you know which counties are included? I've seen it but I forget. I think it goes as far south as Middles e x, correct? If so your number makes sense to me.

I live in Morris County. The big red R is pretty scarce up here, probably because RU isn't a preference for college in my area. That's not a knock, it's a good school, just not a preferred one.

In any event my post wasn't a shot at RU. I was trying explain what RU brought to the table. From your post I think we pretty much agree.

First off, I state emphatically that I would LOVE to see UCONN in the Big Ten. I really only enjoyed beating two teams (and absolutely hated losing to only 2 teams) and they are UCONN and Syracuse. I think UCONN was RU's number one rival the last several years. I travel ALL over the state, and I guess we'll have to agree to disagree with you on whether or not you see the block R in North Jersey. I see them EVERYWHERE. My kids play a game where they count how many they see everytime we drive through NJ and North Jersey on our way into NYC.

Yes the 6 million people I cited comes from the 12 counties that are part of the NYC DMA.
http://www.newportmedia.com/maps/countyinfo.php?m=1

2012 Census

Ocean (580,470)
Monmouth (629,384)
Middlesex (823,041)
Somerset (327,707)
Hunterdon (127,050)
Union (543,976)
Essex (787,744)
Morris (497,999)
Warren (107,653)
Bergen (918,888)
Sussex (147,442)
Passaic (502,885)

total - 5,994,000

Obviously the number of potential fans in these 12 counties that make up a big part of the NYC DMA played a HUGE role....HUGE...but for people who think it is the only reason, that is just not true.

We are also

1.) Strong academically and members of the AAU
2.) Flagship State University (11 of the 14 schools in the Big Ten are their state's flagship. Maybe UCONN becomes #12?)
3.) We fit in well, academically and student body size-wise. We look like a Big Ten School. (UCONN does as well)
3.) recently expanded and renovated football facilities to 54,000 capacity
4.) RU has had a little success in football, going to bowl games in 8 of the last 9 years (winning 5 of them)
5.) RU has finished in the top half of the league 6 times in the last 10 years (UCONN has only finished in the top half 2 times in the last 10 years...2007 and 2010)

http://espn.go.com/college-football/standings

I really do hope things shake out so that UCONN ends in the Big Ten. The only school I hate in the Big Ten is Penn State. RU needs another real rival.

 

[JayRU09]

46000 is about right for a team going 4-8. UVA fans are fair weather. In 2007, which was the last good UVA football team, the average was 59,800. What would Rutgers numbers be for a 4-8 team? That 2012 Rutgers team was 9-3.

Our 4-8 team in 2010 averaged 47k.

Our lowest attended games in 2012 were against Army in the wake of Hurricane Sandy and against your precious ACC buddy Syracuse.

All other home games averaged 51k in a 52k stadium.

UConn, Kent State, and Howard were all bigger draws to the casual Rutgers fan than Syracuse, and Syracuse was after our winning streak had hit its stride that year.

 

[bingethinker]

Bombing out in football while winning in women's lacrosse....a decent trade.

But I am with you, Maryland needed a change up and maybe the move will give them a kick start.

Stop it. In the last ten years, how many ACC schools have had noteworthy football programs? I'm not pretending Maryland has been world beaters, but you're pretending its been a Vanderbilt (pre-Franklin) in a conference full of Alabamas. ACC football (save FSU and Clemson) as a whole has been as ho-hum as can over the last decade. Since 2000, Maryland, Virginia, Ga Tech, Va Tech, NC State, Carolina, Duke, and Wake have had a few good seasons, but have been pretty meh to bad.

 

[Jimdish255]

UConn should be beating up the B1G for taking Rutgers over the Huskies.

That's as egregious, or more so, then the ACC taking Louisville.

I'm guessing they've been kicking themselves lately.

 

[itgoeslike]

FSU was racking up losses before Bowden was "pushed" out. In fairness to Bowden, he turned around a program that managed a single win in the two seasons prior to him joining.

 

[CTGoonie]

Lawsuit getting ugly according to this: http://msn.foxsports.com/college-fo...cc-and-marylands-lawsuit-is-getting-nasty.php

"That's why the ACC is fighting so hard in this lawsuit, because it needs schools to believe that the $52 million exit fee is binding. Even if it takes years to prove that it isn't, and if this case goes to trial that's how long it would take to be resolved, so be it, that's years of default protection. To a large extent, the ACC's existence as a major conference is tied to the outcome of this Maryland lawsuit.

The ACC, while giving off the impression of strength, is actually still a house of cards."

Let's blow this house down!!

 

[Fairfield 1st]

Lawsuit getting ugly according to this: http://msn.foxsports.com/college-fo...cc-and-marylands-lawsuit-is-getting-nasty.php

"That's why the ACC is fighting so hard in this lawsuit, because it needs schools to believe that the $52 million exit fee is binding. Even if it takes years to prove that it isn't, and if this case goes to trial that's how long it would take to be resolved, so be it, that's years of default protection. To a large extent, the ACC's existence as a major conference is tied to the outcome of this Maryland lawsuit.

The ACC, while giving off the impression of strength, is actually still a house of cards."

Let's blow this house down!!

From this guys lips to God's ears!

 

[CL82]

First off, I state emphatically that I would LOVE to see UCONN in the Big Ten. I really only enjoyed beating two teams (and absolutely hated losing to only 2 teams) and they are UCONN and Syracuse. I think UCONN was RU's number one rival the last several years. I travel ALL over the state, and I guess we'll have to agree to disagree with you on whether or not you see the block R in North Jersey. I see them EVERYWHERE. My kids play a game where they count how many they see everytime we drive through NJ and North Jersey on our way into NYC. Fair enough. Agree to disagree though. It always strikes me how often AAU teams NJ and the NYC area are named the Huskies, how the plays that they call out are UConn, but I've never seen a Scarlet Knight team or here someone yell out Rutgers. Not a knock, it is what it is.

Yes the 6 million people I cited comes from the 12 counties that are part of the NYC DMA.
http://www.newportmedia.com/maps/countyinfo.php?m=1

2012 Census

Ocean (580,470)
Monmouth (629,384)
Middles e x (823,041)
Somerset (327,707)
Hunterdon (127,050)
Union (543,976)
Ess e x (787,744)
Morris (497,999)
Warren (107,653)
Bergen (918,888)
Suss e x (147,442)
Passaic (502,885)

total - 5,994,000

Obviously the number of potential fans in these 12 counties that make up a big part of the NYC DMA played a HUGE role....HUGE...but for people who think it is the only reason, that is just not true. As noted in my prior post, I agree. Thanks for doing this. It is interesting and seems a lot of work went into it.

We are also

1.) Strong academically and members of the AAU
2.) Flagship State University (11 of the 14 schools in the Big Ten are their state's flagship. Maybe UCONN becomes #12?)
3.) We fit in well, academically and student body size-wise. We look like a Big Ten School. (UCONN does as well)
3.) recently expanded and renovated football facilities to 54,000 capacity
4.) RU has had a little success in football, going to bowl games in 8 of the last 9 years (winning 5 of them)
5.) RU has finished in the top half of the league 6 times in the last 10 years (UCONN has only finished in the top half 2 times in the last 10 years...2007 and 2010) Dude, stop auditioning you're in already! Lol, part of me wants to bait you a little to how long this goes on (i,e., Wow all those top half finishes and how many conference championships?) but I'm a little distracted by the March Madness, you know the basketball event that other teams go to? - Sorry couldn't help myself.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/standings

I really do hope things shake out so that UCONN ends in the Big Ten. The only school I hate in the Big Ten is Penn State. RU needs another real rival.

We're on the same side chief. I'm glad RU found a home, I wish it were us, but I'm happy for you. Hopefully we'll get a chance to be conference mates again.

We good?

 

[JayRU09]

Not to keep the argument alive but I would guess it's a lot easier legal wise to name an AAU team 'Huskies' than it is 'Scarlet Knights'.

But yes, figure out something UCONN. And do it before the ACC blows up because who knows what happens if the ACC really is a house of cards.

 

[clmssun]

But yes, figure out something UCONN. And do it before the ACC blows up because who knows what happens if the ACC really is a house of cards.

Exactly. "The ACC blowing up" may sound great to UConn from a schadenfreude perspective, but it offers no guarantees of tangibly facilitating UConn's advancement.

Keep in mind that the net change from 2010 BCS-6 conferences to 2014 CFP-5 conferences was a net loss of one school's seat: Utah and TCU gained seats, while UConn, Cincinnati, and South Florida lost seats.

 

[CL82]

Not to keep the argument alive but I would guess it's a lot easier legal wise to name an AAU team 'Huskies' than it is 'Scarlet Knights'.

But yes, figure out something UCONN. And do it before the ACC blows up because who knows what happens if the ACC really is a house of cards.

Yeah, Jay because AAU teams are always named after running it by counsel.

 

[specialisthusky]

Misery loves company. Blow it up. Blow it up good.

 

[JayRU09]

Yeah, Jay because AAU teams are always named after running it by counsel.

They...could? I dunno. I don't really look into the scummy AAU world all that much.

 

[UConn9604]

Not to keep the argument alive but I would guess it's a lot easier legal wise to name an AAU team 'Huskies' than it is 'Scarlet Knights'.

It also helps if you'd like to be relevant in the postseason.

 

[JayRU09]

Well that......