Is it football or academics for ACC or B1G access?

[Ewekon]

Compiled a few lists for comparison sake as we wonder when the next shoe drops. The eventual point is limited to getting into either the B1G or ACC. But for shots and giggles all based on generally accepted US News rankings.

P5 schools ahead or tied with UConn - 10 private, 13 public ahead of us. We are in a 3 way tie at # 58.

#4 Stanford, #8 Duke, # 13 N'western, #16 ND, #16 Vandy, #19 Rice, #20 Cal, #23 UCLA, #23 UVA, #25 USC, #27 Wake, #29 Michigan, #30 UNC, #31 BCU, #35 GA Tech, #42 Illini, #47 Wisconsin, #48 Penn State, #48 Florida, #48 U Miami, #48 U Washington, #53 Texas, #54 Ohio State, #58 UConn, #58 SMU, #58 Syracuse.

Every ACC and B1G school rated above us is a legacy except ND; but that's a joke as they keep their own football network. I give BCU legacy status because yeah, it's been that long. So according to US News we are easily in the top half of P5 schools academically. Great; but not in football at least for now. So what counts most for any new expansion for the ACC and B1G?

The ACC chose Syracuse - tied with us academically and marginal in football; but they draw at home. Pitt - at #62, an AAU school and step ahead of us in football; at least. And then there is the mighty Louisville Cardinals at #161. Think football counts more as far as the ACC goes? Yeah.

The B1G went with Maryland at #62, an AAU member with a somewhat better football program and Rutgers at #70, also AAU and I'm saying not much better in football; but they do draw at home and theoretically bring the New York TV market. We have a higher rating than 14 ACC/B1G schools. Clearly the B1G values AAU status and Herbst has apparently made it a priority. (Though Tulane is already there so watch out.)

So, our compatriots in the AAC who could theoretically shoot for an ACC berth are Cinci at #129, USF at #161 and UCF at #173. Houston's not going to the ACC; but for the record #189. Can you find any rationale to choose Cinci over UConn for the ACC? No. But see Cardinals, Louisville. Memphis was unrated!

What does the B1G do? Would AAU member Missouri bolt the Big 12 if offered? I'd think so. AAU member Kansas? Probably. You have to love that network over there at the B1G. I've looked at the membership roll of the entire AAU and no other schools make sense to me.

So what is the chicken and egg scenario for UConn and the B1G? Success in football in all facets or AAU membership? Every B1G school - new and old - is a member except Nebraska. Ummm can you say football?

Lot's of animosity from the ACC toward us from the original thefts of Miami, etc. Nebraska proves you don't need AAU cred; but it's a midwestern football school. I want B1G but I wonder if the ACC is more natural.

 

[Adios]

The ACC knows we're a gold mine. They're just trying to hold us down for as long as they can. Big mistake.

 

[Confident Carl]

Compiled a few lists for comparison sake as we wonder when the next shoe drops. The eventual point is limited to getting into either the B1G or ACC. But for shots and giggles all based on generally accepted US News rankings.

P5 schools ahead or tied with UConn - 10 private, 13 public ahead of us. We are in a 3 way tie at # 58.

#4 Stanford, #8 Duke, # 13 N'western, #16 ND, #16 Vandy, #19 Rice, #20 Cal, #23 UCLA, #23 UVA, #25 USC, #27 Wake, #29 Michigan, #30 UNC, #31 BCU, #35 GA Tech, #42 Illini, #47 Wisconsin, #48 Penn State, #48 Florida, #48 U Miami, #48 U Washington, #53 Texas, #54 Ohio State, #58 UConn, #58 SMU, #58 Syracuse.

Every ACC and B1G school rated above us is a legacy except ND; but that's a joke as they keep their own football network. I give BCU legacy status because yeah, it's been that long. So according to US News we are easily in the top half of P5 schools academically. Great; but not in football at least for now. So what counts most for any new expansion for the ACC and B1G?

The ACC chose Syracuse - tied with us academically and marginal in football; but they draw at home. Pitt - at #62, an AAU school and step ahead of us in football; at least. And then there is the mighty Louisville Cardinals at #161. Think football counts more as far as the ACC goes? Yeah.

The B1G went with Maryland at #62, an AAU member with a somewhat better football program and Rutgers at #70, also AAU and I'm saying not much better in football; but they do draw at home and theoretically bring the New York TV market. We have a higher rating than 14 ACC/B1G schools. Clearly the B1G values AAU status and Herbst has apparently made it a priority. (Though Tulane is already there so watch out.)

So, our compatriots in the AAC who could theoretically shoot for an ACC berth are Cinci at #129, USF at #161 and UCF at #173. Houston's not going to the ACC; but for the record #189. Can you find any rationale to choose Cinci over UConn for the ACC? No. But see Cardinals, Louisville. Memphis was unrated!

What does the B1G do? Would AAU member Missouri bolt the Big 12 if offered? I'd think so. AAU member Kansas? Probably. You have to love that network over there at the B1G. I've looked at the membership roll of the entire AAU and no other schools make sense to me.

So what is the chicken and egg scenario for UConn and the B1G? Success in football in all facets or AAU membership? Every B1G school - new and old - is a member except Nebraska. Ummm can you say football?

Lot's of animosity from the ACC toward us from the original thefts of Miami, etc. Nebraska proves you don't need AAU cred; but it's a midwestern football school. I want B1G but I wonder if the ACC is more natural.

I appreciate the time you took to do this research. Two corrections, Missouri was in the Big 12 but left in 2012 for the SEC. They are not going anywhere. Nebraska had AAU status at the time they entered the B1G from the Big 12 but lost AAU status in 2011.

http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten/post/_/id/26078/nebraska-loses-aau-status

http://www.foxsports.com/collegefootball/story/Missouri-leaving-Big-12-for-SEC-110611

 

[NickyNewark]

Too much animosity for the ACC.....too bad. I can't see the B1G letting the ACC take the last Eastern jewel "UConn". Adequate FB..strong academics will do it....partner is the problem.

 

[BoatShow]

Stopped reading at Mizzou in the Big12

 

[Sea Goat]

Here's to the B1G.

The ACC obviously doesn't give a sh!! about academics as evidenced by the Louisville add. NFW Louisville would have ever got an invite to the B1G because of shoddy academics. The B1G has some integrity when it comes to the academic sphere. That we'll help us. Further, the B1G is just a better and more stable fit for us.

The ACC is bound to have problems develop as the significant cultural divisions become more pronounced. I think the ACC is ultimately doomed for several reasons and many current members could be looking for new homes within 7-10 years.

 

[SubbaBub]

If the ACC is backfilling the losses of FSU and Clemson to the B12. There list will be UCF, Cincy, UConn in that order. We're out unless Miami balks at another FL school. (That's how bad our relationship with the ACC is)

If the ACC is backfilling the loss of UVa, NCSt or VT, then the list is Cincy then UConn. You can thank BC, Cuse, and Pitt for that one. Unless ESPN steps in. (How do we always need people that screwed us to change their minds)

If the B1G is expanding (they don't backfill) then I think UConn is the number one, G5 school under consideration, but we are behind a couple P5 AAU's assuming they were available.

 

[Kolumbo]

In trying to determine how close UCONN was to AAU status, I had found this piece a while back. Interesting, although I did not read all of it. UCONN is listed on page 10.
It does make me think that UCONN is probably not very close to AAU unless Delaney wants us to be.
https://www.newamerica.org/downloads/NewAAU-20140602.pdf

 

[NYUConn]

If the ACC is backfilling the losses of FSU and Clemson to the B12. There list will be UCF, Cincy, UConn in that order. We're out unless Miami balks at another FL school. (That's how bad our relationship with the ACC is)

If the ACC is backfilling the loss of UVa, NCSt or VT, then the list is Cincy then UConn. You can thank BC, Cuse, and Pitt for that one. Unless ESPN steps in. (How do we always need people that screwed us to change their minds)

If the B1G is expanding (they don't backfill) then I think UConn is the number one, G5 school under consideration, but we are behind a couple P5 AAU's assuming they were available.

Just curious, but why do you think that Cuse and Pitt would prefer Cincy over UConn? Sure BC hates us, but Cincy is a solid football program in Pitt's backyard and to a lesser extent Syracuse's in Western NY. If I am Pitt or Cuse I would rather have a depleted UConn program than a strong Cincy program come into the league.

 

[CallMeBruce]

If the ACC is backfilling the losses of FSU and Clemson to the B12. There list will be UCF, Cincy, UConn in that order. We're out unless Miami balks at another FL school. (That's how bad our relationship with the ACC is)

If the ACC is backfilling the loss of UVa, NCSt or VT, then the list is Cincy then UConn. You can thank BC, Cuse, and Pitt for that one. Unless ESPN steps in. (How do we always need people that screwed us to change their minds)

If the B1G is expanding (they don't backfill) then I think UConn is the number one, G5 school under consideration, but we are behind a couple P5 AAU's assuming they were available.

There's no way the ACC takes Cincinnati before UConn.

 

[Kolumbo]

Well 1st, U of Cincinnati is named after a city which seems to be what the ACC is after. and 2nd, look how much blue will be added by adding Ohio! Not sure what the other criteria are. Maybe adding Cincy makes the ACC contiguous?

 

[UCPusky]

Looking at this map saddens and infuriates me at the same time. Drop ND and Louisville, add back MD along with WV, Rutgers and of course UConn. Now there's a true Atlantic Coast Conference that would have maintained regional rivalries along with staying competitive for network $.

OK, now back to reality - CR sucks!

 

[SubbaBub]

There's no way the ACC takes Cincinnati before UConn.

If the cry from members is Football, not Uconn, academics be darned, then I wouldn't be so sure.

We've already seen they know that song.

 

[HoopsFan21]

In trying to determine how close UCONN was to AAU status, I had found this piece a while back. Interesting, although I did not read all of it. UCONN is listed on page 10.
It does make me think that UCONN is probably not very close to AAU unless Delaney wants us to be.
https://www.newamerica.org/downloads/NewAAU-20140602.pdf

Exactly. People think there's this list of benchmarks that passing will automatically get us into the AAU. It's a voting process, and it's exclusive hence the relative rarity of new schools being added. The same schools we will need to vote us into the AAU are generally the same schools making a conscious effort to keep us out of a P5 conference. Good luck with all that.

 

[Kolumbo]

Looking at this map saddens and infuriates me at the same time. Drop ND and Louisville, add back MD along with WV, Rutgers and of course UConn. Now there's a true Atlantic Coast Conference that would have maintained regional rivalries along with staying competitive for network $.

OK, now back to reality - CR sucks!

This is true. In hindsight, it would have been cool if the Big East and ACC said "hey, let's merge conferences. Except for the Catholics, including BC. Just like Shoeless Joe Jackson said, "None of us could stand the son of a bitch when he was alive, so, we told him to stick it."

 

[SAMCRO]

There's no way the ACC takes Cincinnati before UConn.

I remember hearing the same thing about Louisville. You seem to forget the first rule of Conference Realignment.

 

[billybud]

When you read about the relative strength of a conference, you read about the perceived strength of their teams...from top to bottom. You may also read about the conference revenue or individual team pay out. But academics is another conversation. Mainly a separate conversation.

While I think that academics are important in terms of CR, I think they play-in less so in some conferences than others. Is the SEC's place as the strongest conference threatened by their academic ratings?

The B1G has shown that AAU is a criteria that they consider strongly while the ACC has been intent on strengthening the TV value of their product.

For the ACC...I believe it is all about added value.

Some ACC fans are convinced that there is a preferred alliance between the SEC and ESPN. The run away coverage on ESPN and the reach of the SEC network can be a difference maker as the spin and the influence resonate with the public and the high school athlete. Add a $5 million or more revenue differential from that of the ACC, and it will be tough to slow that SEC train.

ESPN is operating on a business model and it really isn't a conspiracy with the SEC at the expense of the ACC (although the end product may be the same). If the SEC and ACC both are almost exclusively contracted to ESPN, then one must conclude that it is the market that puts a higher value on the SEC.

As FSU posters have wondered....if the SEC revenue stream is truly higher than the ACC's, is it because SEC members create more value as a whole? Or is it because the differential between the highest contributor to value and the lowest is not as wide in the SEC as in the ACC?

Or is it because football is the revenue driver and the SEC is uniquely blessed with demographics to take advantage of that (in terms of dedicated football viewers). The ACC has some programs in the less college football oriented areas of the northeast and fewer large public universities.

What the ACC may be looking for...is more value from top to bottom.

 

[pj]

In trying to determine how close UCONN was to AAU status, I had found this piece a while back. Interesting, although I did not read all of it. UCONN is listed on page 10.
It does make me think that UCONN is probably not very close to AAU unless Delaney wants us to be.
https://www.newamerica.org/downloads/NewAAU-20140602.pdf

You're using a table in which MIT, Cornell, Yale, Duke, Vanderbilt, the University of Chicago, and the University of Virginia rank below the University of South Florida, University of Illinois at Chicago, and University of New Mexico to evaluate AAU worthiness?

 

[Redding Husky]

UConn is a really pretty girl (think Maryann on Gilligan's Island) with a big zit on her nose (football).

Once the zit goes away, we'll be vastly more appealing. Will that be enough to get picked up by the Big 10 or ACC? I don't know.

 

[B1GOSU]

Another way to look at this from a football standpoint..........

B1G - a 1 loss football team qualified for the College Football Playoff
PAC 12 - a 1 loss football team qualified for the College Football Playoff
SEC - a 1 loss football team qualified for the College Football Playoff
ACC - an undefeated team qualified as the #3 seed for the College Football Playoff (a 1 loss team would not have made the playoff)
Big 12 - no teams qualified for the College Football Playoff (with two 1 loss teams)

From a strength of schedule standpoint, the ACC and Big 12 are the ones that need additional football powerhouses added. Granted, the Big 12 had down years for Texas and Oklahoma, while Baylor played a joke of a nonconference schedule, so you could argue that the Big 12 is just fine and it was simply a down year. The ACC on the other hand, the top football program went undefeated, including wins over two P5 teams in the regular season, yet only earned the #3 seed in the CFP. That speaks volumes to the strength (or lack thereof) of ACC football. The ACC would need to address its football issue in any future expansion. Having said that, no football power is going to go backwards in the food chain and demote themselves from the SEC or B1G to join the ACC. The only thing that could happen would be for either the Big 12 or ACC to explode and the surviving conference raided the other. Likewise, the B1G or SEC could raid the ACC. I think the only way UConn gets into the ACC is if the ACC loses additional teams, because the ACC needs to increase its football branding to stay in the CFP hunt most years. I think adding UConn would be a reactionary move only on the part of the ACC if it felt it had no choice based on the result of a raid by another conference. In that case, CFP or not, the ACC would have to do something to stay relevant.

I think the only end result for UConn to truly feel "safe" in the realignment front would be to hope for an invite from the B1G. The B1G is in no danger of being raided by other conferences at any point in future years and the B1G, along with the SEC, will be the Super 2 of the P5 in terms of money and power.

 

[CallMeBruce]

The Big 12 didn't miss out on a playoff team because of strength of schedule. The issue was that TCU lost to Baylor, and then neither team got to play in a CCG. So the best team in the league isn't even really the league champ, and you can't have them play a championship game because you don't have enough teams.

 

[Kolumbo]

You're using a table in which MIT, Cornell, Yale, Duke, Vanderbilt, the University of Chicago, and the University of Virginia rank below the University of South Florida, University of Illinois at Chicago, and University of New Mexico to evaluate AAU worthiness?

Apparently size does matter.
I agree though, it has no bearing on UCONN's chances in the AAU today.
USF and UCF are important based on the sheer number of students those universities educate. That's one of the main points of the article.
"This New AAU should retain its traditional focus on research, which remains vital to the national interest. But it should take a very different approach to undergraduate education, rewarding institutions that are committed to keeping college accessible, affordable and focused on student success, instead of actively working against those critical goals."

 

[SAMCRO]

The B12 issues was who the 1 loss teams were. Replace Baylor or TCU with Texas, and the B12 would have had a team in the playoff (and one of either FSU or tOSU is the odd man out of the playoff, not a doubt in my mind). Or, replace tOSU with an Iowa as the B1G's 1 loss team and the B1G doesn't put a team in the playoff. The decisions by the committee had as much to do with the BRAND of the teams in contention as it did with the results of the teams in contention.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

Looking at this map saddens and infuriates me at the same time. Drop ND and Louisville, add back MD along with WV, Rutgers and of course UConn. Now there's a true Atlantic Coast Conference that would have maintained regional rivalries along with staying competitive for network $.

OK, now back to reality - CR sucks!

This is true. In hindsight, it would have been cool if the Big East and ACC said "hey, let's merge conferences. Except for the Catholics, including BC. Just like Shoeless Joe Jackson said, "None of us could stand the son of a bitch when he was alive, so, we told him to stick it."

There were rumors as far back at the late 1990's that the Big East football schools (plus UConn which was going to I-A at the time and maybe Villanova, which was considering such a move) would split from the Catholics and merge with the ACC. It would have been a fun .

 

[DarthGrumpy]

Just curious, but why do you think that Cuse and Pitt would prefer Cincy over UConn? Sure BC hates us, but Cincy is a solid football program in Pitt's backyard and to a lesser extent Syracuse's in Western NY. If I am Pitt or Cuse I would rather have a depleted UConn program than a strong Cincy program come into the league.

Unless inviting UConn saves the ACC from being poached (B1G, SEC, XII), no way Syracuse even votes to admit UConn as Syracuse can offer 1 thing to the sporting world - access to NYC and UConn is a major threat to them in NYC. BC will carry the Bleumenathal lawsuit as a grudge forever, so that's a no vote, too. Pitt is just happy to be in the ACC and not stuck on an island in the XII like WVU or in purgatory like UConn in the AAC, so they would vote however asked by Syracuse and Pitt. So, that is 3 no votes right off the bat