Irish fan on why UConn belongs in the ACC

[NotreDameJoe]

As mentioned, Maryland's admin had some pro BUG members there already. If their lawsuit goes to trial I would love to see Delaney and their President pretend not to remember their conversations.

Again, the donations are counted as revenue. In fact, read Hillis's replies. He said when the Longhorn Foundation donors were polled, half of them were unaware that they were donating to athletics solely and not the university at large. surely you're aware that schools without athletics have very large endowments. Athletics tends to draw big donations to athletics. There are certainly benefits to having sports, but the original claim was that the schools make money. It's the exact opposite of that. Schools subsidize sports through direct funding, student fees, stadiums and facilities, etc.

Texas and Notre Dame are the #1 and 2 brands in the country in terms of dollar size so our examples may not be as relevant. But if any P5 school is losing money on football then they either have really bad or really good accountants.

 

[NickyNewark]

I believe Carolina has a good rapport with the powers that be in the B1G. But, the administration would have a very difficult time selling the B1G to the Carolina fanbase at large.

They see UNC as an east coast school, while the fanbase see it as a Southern school. That might sound a bit silly to those not from NC, but, believe me, It makes a HUGE difference.

And what do they(admin's) have in common (NC/RU/NJ)?......JD. With the fans its a different story. I was under the impression NC was loaded with NY/NJ metro kids?

 

[Adios]

I would say that based on all time history, Pitt is #5 in terms of importance, behind SC, Navy, Michigan State, and Purdue. Because we get nothing in terms of reaching our national fan base that does not live in the midwest, for the future Pitt is more important than Purdue and probably Michigan State.

How could Michigan not be #1? Yost gave you your nickname.

 

[NickyNewark]

What Gene DeFilippo said is true. He didn't want to add UConn because he didn't want another team in New England. The Tobacco Road basketball schools wanted UConn, and Duke chaired the Council of Presidents. The Big XII was flirting with Pittsburgh. ESPN was telling the ACC to take Pittsburgh and West Virginia according to some sources. That wasn't going to happen because there was a 35 year quest to get Syracuse. IMO they could have brought in everybody they wanted, but the ESPN contract gets reopened at just adding 2, and its easier to extract more with small steps than with Big Ones.

There has been this ulterior motive of courting Notre Dame by the ACC all along. It goes back to Gene Corrigan, who was the ACC Comissioner at one time and also the AD at Notre Dame and UVA in his career. Kevin White, AD at Duke, wants Notre Dame - former AD at Notre Dame. Nathan Hatch, President of Wake Forest - former Provost at Notre Dame. Mary Anne Fox, Former Chancellor of NC State, BS - Chemistry, Notre Dame & Notre Dame Trustee. And there are several more.

The additions of Boston College and Pittsburgh were made in part to make the ACC more attractive to Notre Dame football. It wasn't the ONLY reason, but it was a secondary reason. And there is a part of the league heavily considering adding the US Naval Academy too. Notre Dame football likes them. The problem there is while Navy would be nice for Notre Dame football, the ACC runs 25 sports including Basketball. Navy is not a fit for basketball. The ACC is 5/8 of the way there.

We know that there is still support for UConn in much of the conference. Perhaps if the NCAA lets the ACC have flexibility with the Championship Game, it could open an opportunity to just add one. ESPN would have to pay more though, or it would have to help launch a network in new areas.

Outside of decent hoop's WTF would the ACC having been thinking of being on a "quest" for 35 years for a small dying getting more insignificant by the day Syracuse stimpycuse? "Quest?"lol they were NEVER that good up in there little enclave in the Onandaga outpost in the snow!?! Talk about a conference w/no vision!!Though I do realize su was "under consideration around "91' and again in "03" but to be on quest sounds like wording a fan would use instead of the more likely "considered".

 

[Pat125]

As mentioned, Maryland's admin had some pro BUG members there already. If their lawsuit goes to trial I would love to see Delaney and their President pretend not to remember their conversations.

I think one of the conversations was wondering how Fr. Jenkins was going to order convince Mr. Swofford to enact a punitive exit fee in a way that is a violation of the ACC bylaws. That conversation will also be interesting if the lawsuit goes to trial.

Another conversation was Mr. Delany asking Dr. Loh why so many people misspell his name.

 

[upstater]

As mentioned, Maryland's admin had some pro BUG members there already. If their lawsuit goes to trial I would love to see Delaney and their President pretend not to remember their conversations.



Texas and Notre Dame are the #1 and 2 brands in the country in terms of dollar size so our examples may not be as relevant. But if any P5 school is losing money on football then they either have really bad or really good accountants.

Losing money on athletics, not football. But, both Texas and Michigan had $250m+ loans for stadiums recently. It takes about $18m to service such loans annually.

 

[TerryD]

.

I think ND is a member of the ACC... its certainly not an " independent " in football anymore. Not when just about half the football future schedules are tied up by mutual agreement between itself and a football league... and all its other sports at the school are in that same conference as well. The ACC deal between ND and the ACC, had benefits to each party. ND got its TV contracts protected , while the ACC utilized the ND brand to cut themselves a good contract deal that mollified both FSU and Clemson from going anywhere. Coupled with the GOR provision enacted in the ACC, the ACC solidified themselves from any further poaching, and just as importantly ,from future actual defections. ND helped as an unwitting participant to the ACC goal of establishing its league's stability within the P5 realignments.[/quote]

I don't think that there was anything "unwitting" about it on ND's part. I think that they wanted ACC stability as much as anyone and it was part of ND's long range plan to keep its status.

 

[djct1999]

I think ND is a member of the ACC... its certainly not an " independent " in football anymore. Not when just about half the football future schedules are tied up by mutual agreement between itself and a football league... and all its other sports at the school are in that same conference as well. The ACC deal between ND and the ACC, had benefits to each party. ND got its TV contracts protected , while the ACC utilized the ND brand to cut themselves a good contract deal that mollified both FSU and Clemson from going anywhere. Coupled with the GOR provision enacted in the ACC, the ACC solidified themselves from any further poaching, and just as importantly ,from future actual defections. ND helped as an unwitting participant to the ACC goal of establishing its league's stability within the P5 realignments.

You said it yourself. ND got its TV contracts protected= not a member of the acc.

 

[Seaa Blue]

Losing money on athletics, not football. But, both Texas and Michigan had $250m+ loans for stadiums recently. It takes about $18m to service such loans annually.

NY Times article pegs the Michigan service cost at $9M.

Note that some of that financing went to renovation of existing seating, aisles, concessions and infrastructure.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/04/sports/ncaafootball/04stadium.html?_r=0

The new seating will generate about $12 million in revenue this season, Parker said, more than enough to cover the $9 million debt services for the renovation and expansion. The suites and preferred seating are expected to generate more than $14 million annually when they are sold out. (and they were for the start of the second season).​

 

[upstater]

NY Times article pegs the Michigan service cost at $9M.

Note that some of that financing went to renovation of existing seating, aisles, concessions and infrastructure.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/04/sports/ncaafootball/04stadium.html?_r=0

The new seating will generate about $12 million in revenue this season, Parker said, more than enough to cover the $9 million debt services for the renovation and expansion. The suites and preferred seating are expected to generate more than $14 million annually when they are sold out. (and they were for the start of the second season).​

It was $226 for the stadium, but they also did Chrisler Arena and other stadiums on campus, so the total price was above $250m. I posed this question to someone who finances really big deals for developers and he estimated that, given the state university's credit rating, you couldn't do it for less than $18m per. AND, though new revenues are created that will cover the debt service, the costs are not counted as athletic expenses while the revenues are. In other words, it drives up revenues for the athletic side, but the debt service is paid by the school. I've actually looked at UM's athletic budget in depth and they do fork over $2m a year expressly for servicing the university's debt.

Think about $9m a year on $250m. Over 30 years, that's $270m. I don't think any bank or investor is going to give $250m for an annualized return of less than 1%. At 1% interest rate, you'd need to shell out $290m to service that debt.

 

[btstimpy]

Don't forget the pissing match between FSU and Tobacco Road before all this went down. A BOT member at FSU called out Tobacco Road for hoarding bball 3rd tier rights while selling football 3rd tier rights down the river. FSU was in a public skirmish with Tobacco Road in the summer prior to Maryland announcing its intention to leave. And that was the backdrop when FSU sussed out that UConn was already "penned in" (to quote Louisville's AD) and decided to use some white-out and use its muscle.

How many Tier 3 football games do you think FSU is going to be playing? If Andy Haggard at FSU thinks he's going to be scheduling and playing Savannah State all the time going forward in football, he might have a point. But they aren't, and he has no point. He was probably into his third or fourth scotch at his country club in South Florida when he made those comments. He's now been set straight, and FSU signed the GOR.

 

[Yawkey Way]

Do you understand what it took to get us to make a deal in which we allow the ACC to schedule 5 football games per year for us? .

Yes, .. It was an unbridled and justifiable fear that the P5 train was leaving the station, and ND could not take the chance to be left behind doing the antiquated football independence gig any longer with the rapidly changing football landscape taking place all around them. So it made perfect sense for ND to find a league home, and the ACC in return got what it needed which was the ND brand to cut a good deal with the networks that later developed into a GOR deal.. all of which kept FSU and Clemson in the ACC, and prevented any poaching attempts as well as actual defections. ND in return kept their tv contracts, and some flexbility to keep about half their football schedule in their own domain, while the rest of their school teams came into the ACC as full members.

 

[btstimpy]

Outside of decent hoop's WTF would the ACC having been thinking of being on a "quest" for 35 years for a small dying getting more insignificant by the day Syracuse stimpycuse? "Quest?"lol they were NEVER that good up in there little enclave in the Onandaga outpost in the snow!?! Talk about a conference w/no vision!!Though I do realize su was "under consideration around "91' and again in "03" but to be on quest sounds like wording a fan would use instead of the more likely "considered".

I'll tell you what they were thinking. That first Syracuse vs Duke basketball game this season was the highest rated men's college basketball game during the regular season on television in the history of ESPN and any ESPN network. That's what they are thinking. More to come.

 

[specialisthusky]

I'll tell you what they were thinking. That first Syracuse vs Duke basketball game this season was the highest rated men's college basketball game during the regular season on television in the history of ESPN and any ESPN network. That's what they are thinking. More to come.

It was also the most overrated game in terms of quality. Pitiful teams this year but of course quality matters not in college athletics these days. Glad I was at the Bushnell and missed it.

 

[NickyNewark]

I'll tell you what they were thinking. That first Syracuse vs Duke basketball game this season was the highest rated men's college basketball game during the regular season on television in the history of ESPN and any ESPN network. That's what they are thinking. More to come.

I'll be waiting breathlessly to watch part 2 Dook/SU(sarcasm on)!!

 

[Yawkey Way]

Corrigan was talking about it concurrently with the Pitt/Cuse adds. There was a long article on the BC fan website about Gene DeFillippo's interview w/ Blaudschun and how it contained not one poison pill but two. Apparently, the Pitt Pres. and the ACC offices were livid in particular with how Gene D. mentioned that it was ESPN who was orchestrating the movements. At the time there were articles about a big move, about ND and UConn moving to the ACC together just weeks after Cuse and Pitt were added. Gene D. and BC smartly put a halt to it all as everyone feared what the BE would do in relation to ESPN, etc.

http://www.thekeyplay.com/content/2011/september/20/more-acc-expansion-notre-dame-and-uconn

http://nypost.com/2011/09/19/rutgers-uconn-looking-for-new-league/

http://www.dailypress.com/sports/te...ommissioner-corrigan-20111026,0,7637373.story

http://www.dailypress.com/sports/te...otre-dame-membership-20111019,0,4211491.story

Is there

There has been this ulterior motive of courting Notre Dame by the ACC all along. It goes back to Gene Corrigan, who was the ACC Comissioner at one time and also the AD at Notre Dame and UVA in his career. Kevin White, AD at Duke, wants Notre Dame - former AD at Notre Dame. Nathan Hatch, President of Wake Forest - former Provost at Notre Dame. Mary Anne Fox, Former Chancellor of NC State, BS - Chemistry, Notre Dame & Notre Dame Trustee. And there are several more.

The additions of Boston College and Pittsburgh were made in part to make the ACC more attractive to Notre Dame football. .

Scratch the surface of the ACC in leadership positions in the ACC, and its family tree is chock full of Domers in the ACC... as you correctly pointed out. Mary Ann Fox.. of NC State... held back on her vote to support BC into the ACC, until she got the go ahead that ND was on board with this, as ND at the time was justifiably nervous as could be with all the league realignments taking place and with their future football independence at severe risk. It was all spinning out of ND's control for them at the time, so they made their wishes known to the ACC that they'd only consider a future ACC league membership if BC and Pitt were added. BC was added, then later, Pitt (and Syracuse) BC and Pitt for their part were only too happy to have ND join the ACC with them as well... As for Syracuse, one day they publically said they were going, next day, publically saying they're staying ( in the BE ). Their internal private conflicts among the competing basketball and football factions at their school left them almost paralyzed with indecisiveness at critical moments in the game of musical chairs we call league realignments.

 

[btstimpy]

As mentioned, Maryland's admin had some pro BUG members there already. If their lawsuit goes to trial I would love to see Delaney and their President pretend not to remember their conversations.

"I don't know anything about college athletics. I know they have games, but that's about it." - Dr. Wallace Loh, President, UMD College Park.

 

[UConn990411]

I'll tell you what they were thinking. That first Syracuse vs Duke basketball game this season was the highest rated men's college basketball game during the regular season on television in the history of ESPN and any ESPN network. That's what they are thinking. More to come.

Blah, blah, blah.

Remember that time Syracuse had a game shown on tape delay so that SNY could broadcast a UConn women's bball game live?

Talk about a big draw!

 

[upstater]

I'll tell you what they were thinking. That first Syracuse vs Duke basketball game this season was the highest rated men's college basketball game during the regular season on television in the history of ESPN and any ESPN network. That's what they are thinking. More to come.

Things get hyped. That's what networks do. But up here Syracuse couldn't even beat out UConn women's bball in New York State. SNY would show UConn women over Syracuse men when they were head-to-head.

 

[upstater]

How many Tier 3 football games do you think FSU is going to be playing? If Andy Haggard at FSU thinks he's going to be scheduling and playing Savannah State all the time going forward in football, he might have a point. But they aren't, and he has no point. He was probably into his third or fourth scotch at his country club in South Florida when he made those comments. He's now been set straight, and FSU signed the GOR.

They signed the GOR after getting rebuffed. But he was angry at Tobacco Road, that much can't be denied. And, in case you didn't know, tier 3 for football is anything outside the conference regular season.

 

[TerryD]

Is there


Scratch the surface of the ACC in leadership positions in the ACC, and its family tree is chock full of Domers in the ACC... as you correctly pointed out. Mary Ann Fox.. of NC State... held back on her vote to support BC into the ACC, until she got the go ahead that ND was on board with this, as ND at the time was justifiably nervous as could be with all the league realignments taking place and with their future football independence at severe risk. It was all spinning out of ND's control for them at the time, so they made their wishes known to the ACC that they'd only consider a future ACC league membership if BC and Pitt were added. BC was added, then later, Pitt (and Syracuse) BC and Pitt for their part were only too happy to have ND join the ACC with them as well... As for Syracuse, one day they publically said they were going, next day, publically saying they're staying ( in the BE ). Their internal private conflicts among the competing basketball and football factions at their school left them almost paralyzed with indecisiveness at critical moments in the game of musical chairs we call league realignments.

Yep, Bubba Cunningham, the AD at North Carolina, was an assistant AD for years at ND. Nathan Hatch, the president of Wake Forest, was a professor, Dean and Provost at ND for decades.

Kevin White, the AD at Duke, was unfortunately the AD at ND. Going way back, Gene Corrigan, the former ACC commissioner, was the AD at ND.

I am sure there are lots of other former ND people in leadership positions in the ACC that I am forgetting.

It was like old home week for ND to negotiate and sign the ACC deal.

 

[TerryD]

Corrigan was talking about it concurrently with the Pitt/Cuse adds. There was a long article on the BC fan website about Gene DeFillippo's interview w/ Blaudschun and how it contained not one poison pill but two. Apparently, the Pitt Pres. and the ACC offices were livid in particular with how Gene D. mentioned that it was ESPN who was orchestrating the movements. At the time there were articles about a big move, about ND and UConn moving to the ACC together just weeks after Cuse and Pitt were added. Gene D. and BC smartly put a halt to it all as everyone feared what the BE would do in relation to ESPN, etc.

http://www.thekeyplay.com/content/2011/september/20/more-acc-expansion-notre-dame-and-uconn

http://nypost.com/2011/09/19/rutgers-uconn-looking-for-new-league/

http://www.dailypress.com/sports/te...ommissioner-corrigan-20111026,0,7637373.story

http://www.dailypress.com/sports/te...otre-dame-membership-20111019,0,4211491.story

ND and the ACC had serious talks back in 2003 when the first BE raid took place. At that time, the ACC was not willing to offer partial membership, so the talks went nowhere.

 

[Adios]

"I don't know anything about college athletics. I know they have games, but that's about it." - Dr. Wallace Loh, President, UMD College Park.

I guess he is implying the B1G is and will be academically superior to the ACC.

 

[Yawkey Way]

ND and the ACC had serious talks back in 2003 when the first BE raid took place. At that time, the ACC was not willing to offer partial membership, so the talks went nowhere.

Thats why all the talk on the ND message boards about ND going to the Big10 ( if they had to give up football independence , and seek a league) after 2003, was just silly , as their school officials were never seriously contemplating ever joining the BIG.... in anything .And when ND bypassed the BIG Hockey league invite, to instead ask for, and then become accepted, into Hockey East with their Hockey program by the Hockey East schools, it became the inevitable fait accompli. re. ND.

 

[upstater]

I guess he is implying the B1G is and will be academically superior to the ACC.

He is honest. Basically, he watched his academic side fund the athletic side for a long time, with huge losses, in an era when state gov'ts were savaging university budgets. These budgets were being cut 10%-15% every year for 5 years (and may have stabilized just this year, and by that I mean, no more cuts, but no rises either). His priority is clear. "Oh, the B1G wants to pay us double what the ACC is paying? Fine with me." If the whole system collapsed tomorrow and college sports ceased to exist, the Wallace Oh's of the world wouldn't lose any sleep over it.