Facts that our Orange Friends Can't Ignore

[DarthGrumpy]

What's pretty telling is that both schools are within an comparitively easy daytrip drive when compared with just about every other bowl.

BC's advantage is that it is only 200 miles from Yankee Stadium and it has train service between the two cities whereas Penn State is 260 miles, though the drive maybe slightly easier as there are no major urban areas along I-80 until the NY/NY metro. The big advantage that Penn State's annual undergraduate class of 11,000 (44,000/4) versus BC's annual undergraduate class of 2,300 (9,200 undergraduates). Plus, Penn State has a lot of alumni in metro NYC (Silver has it listed as #2 after #1 Rutgers just ahead of ND, Syracuse, and UConn). With a proud football history, I believe Penn St will have a big edge in attendance at Yankee Stadium.

 

[Kolumbo]

It wasn't very long ago that 1,000's of UCONN fans would pack buses for the annual UCONN vs. St. John's game at MSG. It was a major event. MSG became such a home to UCONN for that annual event that Jarvis moved the annual game from the weekend to a week night hoping to give his boys a home crowd advantage and save the program from the downward spiral he caused. Neither result materialized. At least that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

 

[Sea Goat]

BC doesn't have turf.

They have a sidewalk that rings the campus.

It doubles as a walkway and as the furthest orbit of their influence.

BC, like many other Boston schools, has a passionate hockey following. But hockey is the only college sport that resonates in Boston. BC knows this and realizes that their efforts develop a decent following in other college sports could only be harmed by a strong UConn. So they will continue to try to thwart efforts by UConn to gain P-5 status and hide behind the "lawsuit" pretense to justify their obstruction.

 

[Gurleyman]

It wasn't very long ago that 1,000's of UCONN fans would pack buses for the annual UCONN vs. St. John's game at MSG. It was a major event. MSG became such a home to UCONN for that annual event that Jarvis moved the annual game from the weekend to a week night hoping to give his boys a home crowd advantage and save the program from the downward spiral he caused. Neither result materialized. At least that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

That's basically true, although the conference/TV would usually be the ones controlling game dates. What Jarvis and St. John's did to respond to the way UConn fans would overrun MSG was make it virtually impossible to purchase only UConn tickets in advance. You had to buy them in a package with a few other games, which was appealing to St. John's fans who planned on attending several but not to UConn fans who would be stuck with tix to 2 or 3 games they didn't give a crap about. This was before the StubHub era when the secondary market would have give UConn fans another avenue.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

That's basically true, although the conference/TV would usually be the ones controlling game dates. What Jarvis and St. John's did to respond to the way UConn fans would overrun MSG was make it virtually impossible to purchase only UConn tickets in advance. You had to buy them in a package with a few other games, which was appealing to St. John's fans who planned on attending several but not to UConn fans who would be stuck with tix to 2 or 3 games they didn't give a crap about. This was before the StubHub era when the secondary market would have give UConn fans another avenue.

Ditto for PC games at the Dunkin' Donut and Hall games at Continental Airlines Arena (now IZOD and before traffic became a lot worse). I have also been to UConn away games at Syracuse (not many UConn fans at all), ND (saw a few; but that game was held in the middle of some heavy lake effect snow, so not sure if UConn fans from Chicago would have been there if the weather was better) and BC during the Curley days (decent UConn showing for a smallish on-campus arena, I had a BC student ticket from a friend).

 

[Husky25]

I'll take Football Attendance at Drivable "Away" Locations for $200, Alex.

Answer: 30,479.

What is the question?

There is no doubt in my mind that Penn State, in their first bowl appearance in 2 years, is driving the secondary market. Not Boston College.

 

[UConn9604]

Have no idea, Uconn9604. Have heard everything from 11,000 - 17,500, but I have no idea. I also don't know how many additional fans bought their tickets outside of BC (over and above the allotment) as we all know that fans frequently take this route.

I will have a better sense once the game starts, as it will be clear just how much of Yankee Stadium is populated by BC fans and how much is populated by PSU fans.

According to some reports, the Pinstripe Bowl Director indicated the Bowl sold out within 36 hours of the schools being announced, so that is pretty telling, IMO.

https://mobile.twitter.com/jack_mccluskey/status/544916586843619328

I will be stunned if it was much more than 10,000 - for reference, last year's BCS allotment for a championship game played in a 90,000 seat stadium was 17,500. Yankee Stadium is barely half the size.

Without question, Penn State is driving the secondary market. They have one of the largest and most active alumni bases in the United States, and they're located as close to the Bronx as Boston is (or closer).

 

[Husky25]

Where's 1978?

I want the question to my Jeopardy answer (and potentially a comical attempt of reconciliation of how BC is going to be at least 50/50 in attendance at the Pinstripe Bowl).

 

[uconndogs]

Couple of things come to mind.

Duuuhh........Penn State is driving demand for the Pin Stripe. Come on!

BC1978 is right in his point of regional interest. College athletics is largely about regional markets except for a few programs (please.....BC is not one of them). Now, the little who was BC's previous AD did everything in his power to make sure that within BC's region there was no competition and thereby driving down interest, but I guess that's besides the point.

 

[BC1978]

I'll take Football Attendance at Drivable "Away" Locations for $200, Alex.

Answer: 30,479.

What is the question?

There is no doubt in my mind that Penn State, in their first bowl appearance in 2 years, is driving the secondary market. Not Boston College.

30,479??

I have no way of proving my statement or disproving yours right now. Neither do you. The only "proof" will come when we see the game on Saturday and even then we will likely disagree some. (Was it REALLY xx% - xx% or some other split? If so, what was the actual split? That data is not always readily accessible. We shall see.). Realistically, you are probably correct that there will likely be more PSU fans for the reasons you stated - but not that any more! I will be there and will give you my impressions, not that you will believe me if it is favorable to BC.

I do know this. The BC-PSU game sold out in 36 hours, which was a record for this Bowl, as the Bowl director has himself indicated in the article below. Both schools sold out their allotments immediately, with the remaining tickets sold in the NYC area, as the article indicated. This game sold out faster than the games which Notre Dame, Rutgers, and Syracuse played in, and that is not all PSU by any means.

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/..._bc_bowl_game_at_yankee_stadium_in_hot_demand

 

[specialisthusky]

Common sense tells us the team that averages over 100k for home games is driving the market not the one that averages 30k.

 

[uconndogs]

Well it's been confirmed.....BC brings NYC. Who knew??????

 

[BC1978]

Common sense tells us the team that averages over 100k for home games is driving the market not the one that averages 30k.

My confusion is that I didn't recognize this specific number of 30,479. BC averaged 34,270 this year.

 

[BC1978]

Well it's been confirmed.....BC brings NYC. Who knew??????

Well, based on the criteria I often see on here, I suppose I could make that boast about BC's "reach" into NYC.

Seriously, IMO, all it means is that given the opportunity to travel to a regional bowl against a quality opponent, BC will travel quite well. I think this data would indicate this. That was my whole point in the OP.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

30,479??

I have no way of proving my statement or disproving yours right now. Neither do you. The only "proof" will come when we see the game on Saturday and even then we will likely disagree some. (Was it REALLY xx% - xx% or some other split? If so, what was the actual split? That data is not always readily accessible. We shall see.). Realistically, you are probably correct that there will likely be more PSU fans for the reasons you stated - but not that any more! I will be there and will give you my impressions, not that you will believe me if it is favorable to BC.

I do know this. The BC-PSU game sold out in 36 hours, which was a record for this Bowl, as the Bowl director has himself indicated in the article below. Both schools sold out their allotments immediately, with the remaining tickets sold in the NYC area, as the article indicated. This game sold out faster than the games which Notre Dame, Rutgers, and Syracuse played in, and that is not all PSU by any means.

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/..._bc_bowl_game_at_yankee_stadium_in_hot_demand

Another concern for BC, Penn St in a down year in 2013 due to the sanctions till pulled in and average of 96K fans to their 106K stadium (90% attendance) placing it 9th in the country while BC, also in a down year, drew 33K to their 44K stadium (75%) .

Best bet, 75% Penn St fans, 25% BC fans.

Oh, and to be open, UConn with less 'tradition' than BC, a stadium located off-campus, and going through the hell of the P&D show drew 31K or just 2K less than BC in 2013 t their 40K stadium (82%).

 

[Husky25]

30,479??

Are you unfamiliar with how the game of Jeopardy works?

30,479 is the answer. What is the question?

 

[BC1978]

Another concern for BC, Penn St in a down year in 2013 due to the sanctions till pulled in and average of 96K fans to their 106K stadium (90% attendance) placing it 9th in the country while BC, also in a down year, drew 33K to their 44K stadium (75%) .

Best bet, 75% Penn St fans, 25% BC fans.

Oh, and to be open, UConn with less 'tradition' than BC, a stadium located off-campus, and going through the hell of the P&D show drew 31K or just 2K less than BC in 2013 t their 40K stadium (82%).

To be honest, I think that comparing one school's attendance to another is lame - especially BC and UCONN which have very similar attendance challenges as northeast programs.

Given the different ways that schools count attendance - tickets scanned, tickets sold, tickets distributed, etc., such comparison are meaningless, IMO. Factors such as who a team plays in a given year, the weather, etc., all are important considerations for programs like BC and Uconn.

You cherry picked 2013 to make a point, citing Uconn's attendance during the last year of the PP regime. I could play the same game. The average game attendance for a 2-win 2012 BC team - the last and worst year of the Spaz disastor - was 37,020, compared to Uconn's 34,672 that year. What's the point? I place no importance on such comparisons as they are meaningless, IMO, given the above considerations.

As far as your 75-25 PSU-BC split prediction for this Saturday's game. I doubt it. But we shall see.

 

[UConn9604]

To be honest, I think that comparing one school's attendance to another is lame - especially BC and UCONN which have very similar attendance challenges as northeast programs.

Given the different ways that schools count attendance - tickets scanned, tickets sold, tickets distributed, etc., such comparison are meaningless, IMO. Factors such as who a team plays in a given year, the weather, etc., all are important considerations for programs like BC and Uconn.

You cherry picked 2013to make a point, citing Uconn's attendance during the last year of the PP regime. I could play the same game. The average game attendance for a 2-win 2012 BC team - the last and worse year of the Spaz disastor - was 37,020, compared to Uconn's 34,672. What's the point? I place no importance on such comparisons as they are meaningless, IMO, given the above considerations.

As far as your 75-25 PSU-BC split prediction for this Saturday's game. I doubt it. But we shall see.

Candidly, it'll probably be worse than 75-25. If each school was required to sell 10,000 tickets, Penn State's fans and alumni (of whom 80-85,000 regularly fill their own stadium) could very well pick up all of the balance, which would leave the share about 80-20.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

To be honest, I think that comparing one school's attendance to another is lame - especially BC and UCONN which have very similar attendance challenges as northeast programs.

Given the different ways that schools count attendance - tickets scanned, tickets sold, tickets distributed, etc., such comparison are meaningless, IMO. Factors such as who a team plays in a given year, the weather, etc., all are important considerations for programs like BC and Uconn.

You cherry picked 2013to make a point, citing Uconn's attendance during the last year of the PP regime. I could play the same game. The average game attendance for a 2-win 2012 BC team - the last and worse year of the Spaz disastor - was 37,020, compared to Uconn's 34,672. What's the point? I place no importance on such comparisons as they are meaningless, IMO, given the above considerations.

As far as your 75-25 PSU-BC split prediction for this Saturday's game. I doubt it. But we shall see.

I picked 2013 because it is the most recent year with complete attendance data available. No more, no less. As for Penn State, it is also a Northeast school that competes with 2 pro NFL teams in-state along with 1 other major college football program in Pitt (sorry Temple, not there yet). Yet, even in the face of that competition plus there remote location, they draw close to 100K per game. That is where I hope UConn is one day.

As for cherry picking, you are discounting the number of fans who go to a game? That's usually the first factor in determining how well a team's fanbase follows the team. If an alumni is deal with traffic in and out cause by a 100K stadium and then pony-up $200 a game for 2x tickets in nosebleed land where the field looks to be in another county, that is loyalty. Those fans are going to travel and it explains why committees want teams like Michigan (109K), Penn St (106K), Texas A&M (106K, Ohio St (105K), LSU (102K), 'Bama (101K), Texas (100K), etc. for Bowl Games. It also shows how far BC has to go to be a 'big time' program, which is is not, even if you have visions of Doug Flutie dancing through your head.

 

[BC1978]

I picked 2013 because it is the most recent year with complete attendance data available. No more, no less. As for Penn State, it is also a Northeast school that competes with 2 pro NFL teams in-state along with 1 other major college football program in Pitt (sorry Temple, not there yet). Yet, even in the face of that competition plus there remote location, they draw close to 100K per game. That is where I hope UConn is one day.

As for cherry picking, you are discounting the number of fans who go to a game? That's usually the first factor in determining how well a team's fanbase follows the team. If an alumni is deal with traffic in and out cause by a 100K stadium and then pony-up $200 a game for 2x tickets in nosebleed land where the field looks to be in another county, that is loyalty. Those fans are going to travel and it explains why committees want teams like Michigan (109K), Penn St (106K), Texas A&M (106K, Ohio St (105K), LSU (102K), 'Bama (101K), Texas (100K), etc. for Bowl Games. It also shows how far BC has to go to be a 'big time' program, which is is not, even if you have visions of Doug Flutie dancing through your head.

Actually, 2014 data is available for the 2014 RS.

I am not discounting actual attendance at all. I said above that it is likely that PSU will have more fans (I agree it probably won't be 50-50.). What I am disputing is the splits that people here are saying. PSU will have more than 75% of the fans?? This ignores some basic considerations:

Yankee Stadium seats 54,000 for Baseball (probably a bit less for FB?) We are not talking about filling a 100,000 plus seat stadium where I agree that the huge number of seats in that situation would put BC at a big disadvantage (as it would for SU, Rutgers, Pitt, or Uconn, for that matter). Rather we are talking about a 54,000 seat neutral stadium where BOTH programs have equal access to tickets. I have heard that the allotments were about 15,000 per school (including all the student tickets) which makes sense as the schools would together sell 30,000 seats and the bowl would sell the remaining 25,000 or so in the NYC area.

If that is the case, BC will at least have almost 30% of the fans at the game - and even this assumes that not a single BC fan buys any remaining tickets from the Bowl and 100% of PSU fans do. I just don't think this is realistic - especially since the article I attached indicated that ticket demand was very high from BOTH programs. Again, we shall see in a few days.

 

[UConn9604]

Actually, 2014 data is available for the 2014 RS.

I am not discounting actual attendance at all. I said above that it is likely that PSU will have more fans (I agree it probably won't be 50-50.). What I am disputing is the splits that people here are saying. PSU will have more than 75% of the fans?? This ignores some basic considerations:

Yankee Stadium seats 54,000 for Baseball (probably a bit less for FB?) We are not talking about filling a 100,000 plus seat stadium where I agree that the huge number of seats in that situation would put BC at a big disadvantage (as it would for SU, Rutgers, Pitt, or Uconn, for that matter). Rather we are talking about a 54,000 seat neutral stadium where BOTH programs have equal access to tickets. I have heard that the allotments were about 15,000 per school (including all the student tickets) which makes sense as the schools would together sell 30,000 seats and the bowl would sell the remaining 25,000 or so in the NYC area.

If that is the case, BC will at least have almost 30% of the fans at the game - and this assumes that not a single BC fan buys any remaining tickets from the bowl and 100% of PSU fans do. I just don't think this is realistic. Again, we shall see in a few days.

An oldie but goodie - think Pinstripe will top the turnout for BC's best team since Flutie's pass, in a conference championship that would have earned them a trip to the Orange Bowl?

http://www.profplacements.com/images/accchampionshipgame.jpg

 

[BC1978]

An oldie but goodie - think Pinstripe will top the turnout for BC's best team since Flutie's pass, in a conference championship that would have earned them a trip to the Orange Bowl?

http://www.profplacements.com/images/accchampionshipgame.jpg

Again, I think it is pretty lame for either BC or Uconn fans to ridicule one another about fan attendance or travel to games out of the region, including big games, where fans have little or no time to make arrangements.

You guys are not immune to this either. I seem to recall a 2011 MBB National Championship where the Uconn student section for the semi Final was empty and Houston and Rice fans were given tickets to the Final to fill in those seats for televsion.

Don't misunderstand me. I would never criticize your programs for this for the reasons I stated above. The only comment I would make is that of "glass houses". This stuff happens to all of us.

http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaa/basket...ts-get-to-experience-nationa?urn=ncaab-wp1856

 

[Samoo]

Again, I think it is pretty lame for either BC or Uconn fans to ridicule one another about fan attendance or travel to games out of the region, including big games, where fans have little or no time to make arrangements.

Actually, no one had mentioned, much less criticized BC until you decided to piss in our cheerios and hijack the thread by claiming that UCONN didn't show any reach on Thursday night and then continuing to argue ad infinitum about it. So don't get all righteous all the sudden when BC is ridiculed.

 

[BC1978]

Actually, no one had mentioned, much less criticized BC until you decided to piss in our cheerios and hijack the thread by claiming that UCONN didn't show any reach on Thursday night and then continuing to argue ad infinitum about it. So don't get all righteous all the sudden when BC is ridiculed.

That was not my intent at all. I was only talking about the issue of "reach" as it applied to that game. Like many threads on these boards, these conversations and the "back and forths" take a path of their own. Sorry if you feel that way. I will jump off the thread.

 

[MTHusky]

That was not my intent at all. I was only talking about the issue of "reach" as it applied to that game. Like many threads on these boards, these conversations and the "back and forths" take a path of their own. Sorry if you feel that way. I will jump off the thread.

You should have done so about 50+ posts ago