Details of the NCAA new governance proposal...

[woomba]

http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/media-center/news/division-i-moves-closer-new-structure

Not too much different than what was reported a few months back - this version will be the one that will be up for vote on Aug 7th.

The main interesting bit for me was that there will be 2 hurdles before the P5 conferences can add additional areas that they gain autonomy over:

1) 3 of the 5 conferences must agree that it should be managed separately from the rest of D1
2) This must be approved by 60% of the votes of the board presidents. This part is broken up into 20 votes, with FCS+Non FB D1 schools making up half

Based on that it sounds like outside of the initial list of autonomous areas it will be pretty difficult for the P5 to get additional autonomy...I guess we'll see how it plays out.

 

[noeynox]

Quickly reading that, it was difficult to understand. What I really want to know if any legislation passed as a result of autonomy will be permissive to all schools who may want to enact it due to having the required resources.

 

[Fishy]

They'll come back for the transfers in two years.

 

[upstater]

Looks to me like the SEC won over the B1G and others.

SEC was asking for 3 of 5 and 60%. The Pac12 and B1G wanted 65% and 4 of 5.

 

[woomba]

Looks to me like the SEC won over the B1G and others.

SEC was asking for 3 of 5 and 60%. The Pac12 and B1G wanted 65% and 4 of 5.

That's possible. The 60% vote for approval from the overall governing board afterwards might've been the compromise.

 

[pj]

So they have to get 3 out of the 5 Power 5 conferences to agree to increase the power of the Power 5 conferences? And that's known as a "hurdle"?

 

[pj]

It looks like they have complete autonomy except that a "board of directors" with representation from the rest of DI can complain that they are not living up to NCAA standards. It doesn't say what happens if the steering committee complains.

 

[upstater]

So they have to get 3 out of the 5 Power 5 conferences to agree to increase the power of the Power 5 conferences? And that's known as a "hurdle"?

More importantly, it's 3 of the 5 to pass legislation inside the P5.

 

[OkaForPrez]

This link has quotes representing the various parties interests.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefoo...s-get-lower-voting-threshold-in-ncaa-proposal

I found the last quote by the MAC particularly interesting:

In arguing for a seat on the Division I board, the MAC cited its inclusion in multiple lawsuits challenging the legality of the collegiate model. “Two seats from the Group of Five would create a de facto ‘Division IV' which was never the intention of this process,” the MAC wrote.​

 

[pj]

More importantly, it's 3 of the 5 to pass legislation inside the P5.

That's only important if you're in the P5 and want to pass legislation half of the P5 doesn't like. If you only want to pass legislation the G5 doesn't like, it's no hurdle at all.

 

[freescooter]

the trick, as many people have noted is how to compete with signifcantly less money coming in.

 

[bobbyinaz]

Quickly reading that, it was difficult to understand. What I really want to know if any legislation passed as a result of autonomy will be permissive to all schools who may want to enact it due to having the required resources.

According to everything that has been published to this point that will be a problem.

The reason the P5 want autonomy is to make their own rules without the approval of the entire NCAA body. Any conference not a part of the P5 will be required to receive approval from the NCAA members in order to make changes.

It's one thing for schools from the MAC, Conf USA, & SunBelt to allow the P5 to "separate" themselves but I don't think there is any way they would ever vote to allow the AAC & MWC to follow suit.

 

[huskymedic]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...oposal-autonomy-power-5-conferences/12830313/

http://www.foxsports.com/college-football/outkick-the-coverage/say-goodbye-to-division-iv-071814

 

[noeynox]

According to everything that has been published to this point that will be a problem.

The reason the P5 want autonomy is to make their own rules without the approval of the entire NCAA body. Any conference not a part of the P5 will be required to receive approval from the NCAA members in order to make changes.

It's one thing for schools from the MAC, Conf USA, & SunBelt to allow the P5 to "separate" themselves but I don't think there is any way they would ever vote to allow the AAC & MWC to follow suit.

They could make the rules, the problem is can others choose to play by those rules? If they can't then you have a division within a division. That's a major problem and I see no way how this doesn't destroy what is presently NCAA D1. Too many good schools currently out. I see no way politicians don't get involved in this if what you say is accurate. I don't that that is the answer or the correct thing to do, but neither do I think it is to tell schools like UConn, Cincinatti, and BYU that "we are going" to put you at a competitive disadavantage and there ain't sheet you can do. Guess we will see how this shakes out.

 

[itgoeslike]

Looks to me like the SEC won over the B1G and others.

SEC was asking for 3 of 5 and 60%. The Pac12 and B1G wanted 65% and 4 of 5.

The Big Ten and Pac12 wanted the 60%. It was the ACC that was noncommittal.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...wer-five-autonomy-vote-supermajority/9014283/

The 60% (48 votes [which can include 9 student-athlete representatives from 3 conferences]) enables the SEC, Big Ten and Pac 12 to pass anything they want within the P5 if they act in unison. If I was the ACC or Big 12 I would sleep with one eye open. . .

 

[pj]

According to everything that has been published to this point that will be a problem.

The reason the P5 want autonomy is to make their own rules without the approval of the entire NCAA body. Any conference not a part of the P5 will be required to receive approval from the NCAA members in order to make changes.

It's one thing for schools from the MAC, Conf USA, & SunBelt to allow the P5 to "separate" themselves but I don't think there is any way they would ever vote to allow the AAC & MWC to follow suit.

This is why I don't understand the lack of G5 movement for a similar autonomy. Just in order to have negotiating leverage, the remaining FBS schools, or at least the better ones, should demand their own autonomy in exchange for going along with P5 autonomy. This would allow them to threaten an arms race / competition with the P5. If the P5 gets autonomy for itself but can block the G5 (or if the G5 is subject to the non-football DI who want a more academic-oriented college athletics environment, then competition could be impossible.

 

[noeynox]

@pj because the G5 has no leverage here. The p5 leverage was the threat to leave the NCAA and take their big money football with them. The g5 can't do that because for them like everyone else in division one the big money provider is the men's ball tournament.

That is why they need to insist that any legislation passed by the p5 be permissive and if that isn't granted they have to be willing to sue they're peers. Without that you have division within a division. Quite frankly the FBS conferences have to have the choice of providing the same benefits and playing by the same rules as the p5. This is really mostly about football.

 

[CoastAtlantic]

The more I think of these proposals the more I shake my head about why the conferences not named the $EC and B1G agreed to this autonomy idea. The presidents, including those in the Pac-12, may not have thought through the long-term consequences of letting Mike Slime...I mean Slive and Jimbo Defadey take the lead on what could become the hammer to gain untold political power down the road. Of course, the short-sighted fans, including some who visit this board, brag about leaving certain programs behind. I have no idea how to fix college sports but further consolidation doesn't seem to be the panacea people put out as a solution. At the least, the American Athletic Conference should be part of a P6, with the MWC as a "tweener" conference.

 

[The Funster]

Still, when I read these articles and look at these graphics I cannot help but think that it would behoove the P5 conferences or the P5 collective to take on more schools. First, take away competing votes by offering P5 status to schools such as UConn, Cincy, BYU, etc. Second, some conferences may want to add some schools to beef up their conference's voting power. Finally, for FB only, it would be in the best interest to abolish conference FB contracts and the P5 schools negotiate deals with all the networks as one bargaining unit.

 

[bobbyinaz]

Still, when I read these articles and look at these graphics I cannot help but think that it would behoove the P5 conferences or the P5 collective to take on more schools. First, take away competing votes by offering P5 status to schools such as UConn, Cincy, BYU, etc. Second, some conferences may want to add some schools to beef up their conference's voting power. Finally, for FB only, it would be in the best interest to abolish conference FB contracts and the P5 schools negotiate deals with all the networks as one bargaining unit.

Why would the SEC & B1G want to negotiate as 1 unit?

They are going to be making almost double what the Big 12 & ACC are making. Just as the P5 want separation from everyone else the SEC & B1G want the same separation from the other P5 conferences. They know that as long as they have a distinct money advantage there will always be opportunities to snatch schools from those conferences if it makes sense.

 

[The Funster]

Why would the SEC & B1G want to negotiate as 1 unit?

They are going to be making almost double what the Big 12 & ACC are making. Just as the P5 want separation from everyone else the SEC & B1G want the same separation from the other P5 conferences. They know that as long as they have a distinct money advantage there will always be opportunities to snatch schools from those conferences if it makes sense.

So what are they going to do, have their own little 32 team subdivision? They'll compete against each other exclusively, like NFL Lite? Slive and Delany get in bed together? No way. There isn't a bed big enough for those two egos number one. Number two, they'll be one step away from being semipro and while the SEC may dig that, the B1G won't, in the end.

The P5 can be a really sweet deal. But it has to be done the right way: It has to be collectively bargained and it has to be remade completely with tradition thrown out the window. Then, and only then can the goose really lay the golden egg.

Otherwise, it will not be a sustainable model and eventually the wheels will fall off.

 

[Fishy]

I'm not sure I understand the people who keep claiming that this is all going to blow up on the P5.

I don't know if it's wishful thinking or just plain incomprehension.

They're making their own rules now. They have all the cash, all the partnerships with the networks and the bowls and the NCAA itself is running scared from them. And, not for nothing, but the sports' media is completely in the tank for them.

Their downside risk is nearly non-existent.

They've already gobbled up the big bites - going forward, they can nibble until they have everything they want. (I guarantee you that in two years they are going to force new transfer rules down everyones' throat.) And then they'll get around to bringing 'fairness' to the NCAA tourney payouts in recognition of the P5's overwhelming contributions to it.

This has and will continue to go perfectly well for them - the only question is how fast things go more perfectly for them and how long the remaindered schools can hang onto their programs. The next round of realignment, I suspect, will involve programs and conferences in the lower regions of the G5 dropping away.

We're probably better positioned than anyone to win a war of attrition here, but I think that's what we're in for.

 

[bobbyinaz]

So what are they going to do, have their own little 32 team subdivision? They'll compete against each other exclusively, like NFL Lite? Slive and Delany get in bed together? No way. There isn't a bed big enough for those two egos number one. Number two, they'll be one step away from being semipro and while the SEC may dig that, the B1G won't, in the end.

The P5 can be a really sweet deal. But it has to be done the right way: It has to be collectively bargained and it has to be remade completely with tradition thrown out the window. Then, and only then can the goose really lay the golden egg.

Otherwise, it will not be a sustainable model and eventually the wheels will fall off.

Take a step back & stop looking at it thru UConn colored glasses.

The P5 is already a sweet deal & will continue to get sweeter. They receive the lion's share of the playoff money, they are going to make their own rules & as Fishy keeps saying, this is just the tip of the iceberg. They will keep coming back for more & more anytime they get the urge to.

Slive & Delany are clearly in bed together already. Even though there are 5 conferences in the P5 the 2 clear dominant players are the SEC & B1G. No matter what the ACC apologists who come to the BY & spout about how great their conference is the reality is that in a couple years when the SEC & B1G are making $40+MM/yr there will be schools looking to get in on that payday. Regardless of whatever BS Swofford & Bowlsby try to peddle, they both understand that.

 

[upstater]

I agree with much of what Fishy says but I think there's a lot more possibility for it to get messy. These G5 programs won't go lightly into the night. If it were that easy for, say, East Carolina to dwindle, it would have happened a while ago. This opens up pandora's box. I think the NCAA will be sued eventually.

 

[noeynox]

I don't deny what fishy is saying either, but before the g5 goes completely way they will fire their last bullet in the form of suing the p5 and the NCAA for enabling them at the expense of the g5. Now I've heard swofford speak publicly about making any new ligislation permissive to anyone that wants to adopt it. If it goes through in the that fashion then it will be a war of attrition and they will eventually weed out the programs that shouldn't be playing FBS.