Coalition on Intercollegiate Athletics requests override vote on P5 autonomy

[upstater]

From ESPN....bold emphasis mine.

"In fact, what once seemed like an idle threat now seems like a very plausible scenario: Schools in the ACC, Big Ten, Big 12, Pac-12 and SEC might break away from the rest of the FBS leagues and form their own federation within the current NCAA structure. Such a move would allow the schools and their conferences to write and approve their own rules, such as increasing the value of scholarships to meet the full cost of attendance, reforming recruiting rules and overhauling the way they investigate and punish rule breakers."
"

They can't form their own thing within the NCAA structure, not without clear rules as to who can join and who must leave such a division.

 

[freescooter]

upstater is right...but beyond that, the FCS, D2 D3 models don't work. The FCS model was imposed (msotly by hte football schools who are now whining again) by the NCAA. It didn't originate with the programs which were put into what was originally called D1AA. This is a very different approach. These 5 leagues, or at least a few of them, want there cake and to eat it too. I'm not sure the general membership will buy there world view if they were to try it.

 

[billybud]

Michelle Hosick ‏@NCAAMichelle 52m 52 minutes ago
DI restructuring moves forward. Override period ends with only 27 schools requesting reconsideration. 75 needed for review.

 

[upstater]

If the P5 were doing this for any other reason than killing off the competition and hoarding all the dollars they can, then fiascos like the one at Alabama with the Simmons girl would never take place. Here's a school that spouts athlete welfare while putting the screws to a student with a sick brother. Heck, she graduated already.

 

[billybud]

I think this is an individual case where she left Bama in the lurch re replacement and they are pissed....the appearance was that she was not accepted for the Bama MBA program and transferred to an MBA program she was accepted at....the "family illness" issue came up after her transfer when she found out that she would sit out a year.

Normally, the receiving school asks the NCAA for the waiver....the NCAA did not grant it...based on their information and processes.

"guidelines say, "If the institution does provide documentation substantiating the injury or illness and the injury or illness necessitated the transfer, the case should be granted."

Seton Hall provided info and documentation to the NCAA staff, which made the initial decision. If the staff denies the request, Seton Hall can appeal to the Division I Subcommittee for Legislative Relief.

That committee is composed of five members: Alicia Alford of Sacred Heart University; Matthew Banker of the Ohio Valley Conference; David Flores of the Big 12; Robert Philippi of Conference USA; and chairwoman Jean Gee of the University of Montana. Not too heavy on P5 reps.



It is bad PR for the school, however, as Edsall found out at Maryland....

 

[upstater]

I think this is an individual case where she left Bama in the lurch re replacement and they are pissed....the appearance was that she was not accepted for the Bama MBA program and transferred to an MBA program she was accepted at....the "family illness" issue came up after her transfer when she found out that she would sit out a year.

Normally, the receiving school asks the NCAA for the waiver....the NCAA did not grant it...based on their information and processes.

"guidelines say, "If the institution does provide documentation substantiating the injury or illness and the injury or illness necessitated the transfer, the case should be granted."

Seton Hall provided info and documentation to the NCAA staff, which made the initial decision. If the staff denies the request, Seton Hall can appeal to the Division I Subcommittee for Legislative Relief.

That committee is composed of five members: Alicia Alford of Sacred Heart University; Matthew Banker of the Ohio Valley Conference; David Flores of the Big 12; Robert Philippi of Conference USA; and chairwoman Jean Gee of the University of Montana. Not too heavy on P5 reps.



It is bad PR for the school, however, as Edsall found out at Maryland....

Her brother has end stage renal failure. Transplant ASAP or die.

Are you kidding me?

 

[billybud]

I was interested in the NCAA thinking on hardship waivers...

"Brooks, the NCAA staff liaison to the committee, did provide insight into the process.

Beyond the required medical documentation, Brooks said, the staff wants to know the timing of the injury or illness. When did it occur? Has the condition worsened? "If nothing has changed for five years," Brooks said, "why the need to transfer now?"

 

[billybud]

The NCAA makes peculiar decisions sometimes...I do not know what their info nor thought process was in this case....

 

[billybud]

Could be that her brother Chaz has been fighting this renal disease for some time, including during her playing days at Bama....and the NCAA noted that...I don't know.

If...she brought up family illness..only after not being able to play....and not before her transfer...it might have influenced NCAA.

 

[upstater]

Let's call a spade a spade. The NCAA is backing up Alabama. It doesn't give a damn about students.

Her brother is in end-stage now. You can have skin cancer for 15 years. Then you die. Just because you've had it for 15 years doesn't make it less urgent.

 

[auggie22]

The NCAA makes peculiar decisions sometimes...I do not know what their info nor thought process was in this case....

You need to watch out for whiplash with posts like this.

Did you not read that part of the article?

 

[billybud]

Upstater...

I understand the emotional reaction to the NCAA decision...that is what the young lady is counting on...so she plays the card to the press.

But I tried to view it as I would if I was rendering a decision...one that could end up in the DCA (appeals court). In the 1000's of decisions that I have authored...all have the same basic framework. And there is no emotion involved...

I am assuming that the NCAA made such a decision based on a similar framework...(simplified):

1...docket any presented evidence
2...take testimony (all of mine was sworn)
3...write a finding of fact (based on the above)
4...based on the found facts and the statute, rule, or regulation in question, issue a decision based on the points of law, rule, or regulation.

If the young lady did, in truth, plan to continue her education at Alabama (even while her brother was suffering kidney failure) and only transferred after being denied entrance to Bama's MBA program, I could see a denial of her claim of family hardship.

It would not be a denial that her brother is seriously ill, but a finding that her impetus for transfer was to further her MBA education. If the young lady had applied for transfer while in undergraduate or after having been accepted to Alabama's MBA program, it would be clear cut.

 

[upstater]

Upstater...

I understand the emotional reaction to the NCAA decision...that is what the young lady is counting on...so she plays the card to the press.

But I tried to view it as I would if I was rendering a decision...one that could end up in the DCA (appeals court). In the 1000's of decisions that I have authored...all have the same basic framework. And there is no emotion involved...

I am assuming that the NCAA made such a decision based on a similar framework...(simplified):

1...docket any presented evidence
2...take testimony (all of mine was sworn)
3...write a finding of fact (based on the above)
4...based on the found facts and the statute, rule, or regulation in question, issue a decision based on the points of law, rule, or regulation.

If the young lady did, in truth, plan to continue her education at Alabama (even while her brother was suffering kidney failure) and only transferred after being denied entrance to Bama's MBA program, I could see a denial of her claim of family hardship.

It would not be a denial that her brother is seriously ill, but a finding that her impetus for transfer was to further her MBA education. If the young lady had applied for transfer while in undergraduate or after having been accepted to Alabama's MBA program, it would be clear cut.

These are academic institutions. Not athletic franchises. Education comes first. You're treating them like pro sports franchises. She went to a place where she could get an MBA. She harms absolutely no one by playing basketball there.

This is the height of absurdity.

 

[billybud]

"I" am not treating anything.

The NCAA does recognize that university sports programs are multimillion dollar enterprises with an interest in assets and have certain protections.

And the young woman can play basketball at Seton..she just has to sit out a year.

It isn't about education at all...it is about her and Seton Hall wanting her to play basketball. She is currently on scholarship. She can have her MBA...let's not kid ourselves...this is about wanting to play basketball.

And you have ignored the whole point that she was planning to continue her education at Bama until denied entrance...and that flys in the face of her stated dire need to be near her family.

 

[SubbaBub]

"I" am not treating anything.

The NCAA does recognize that university sports programs are multimillion dollar enterprises with an interest in assets and have certain protections.

And the young woman can play basketball at Seton..she just has to sit out a year.

It isn't about education at all...it is about her and Seton Hall wanting her to play basketball. She is currently on scholarship. She can have her MBA...let's not kid ourselves...this is about wanting to play basketball.

And you have ignored the whole point that she was planning to continue her education at Bama until denied entrance...and that flys in the face of her stated dire need to be near her family.

So Bama clearly doesn't want her. Why are they blocking her? Exactly, they are scum.

 

[upstater]

"I" am not treating anything.

The NCAA does recognize that university sports programs are multimillion dollar enterprises with an interest in assets and have certain protections.

And the young woman can play basketball at Seton..she just has to sit out a year.

It isn't about education at all...it is about her and Seton Hall wanting her to play basketball. She is currently on scholarship. She can have her MBA...let's not kid ourselves...this is about wanting to play basketball.

And you have ignored the whole point that she was planning to continue her education at Bama until denied entrance...and that flys in the face of her stated dire need to be near her family.

It doesn't fly in the face of her brother's problems at all. His health is deteriorating. But you missed the point entirely (which doesn't surprise me since your school tends to think athletics first and academics second). She left FOR her education.

That's the difference right there. Alabama wanted her to stay and major in something that wasn't her #1 choice academically.

That's how these schools (which are really less than real universities, let's face it) put sports ahead of academics.

 

[bobbyinaz]

To get this thread back on topic the override period has ended & only 27 schools voted against the autonomy

https://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/media-center/news/restructuring-moves-forward

 

[billybud]

To get this thread back on topic the override period has ended & only 27 schools voted against the autonomy

https://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/media-center/news/restructuring-moves-forward

Yeah...I posted that a bit back before someone got all emo in an attempt to bash P5 programs in general. Never mind that the NCAA Committee that ultimately heard the young woman's case and denied her appeal is made up of folks from small schools.

 

[billybud]

And Upstater...it isn't about her education at Seton...she is being educated on scholarship...she wants to play basketball this year. It is about playing basketball at Seton.

The rules prevent that. In the hearing of the facts, it is evident that the young lady did not meat the criteria (according to the NCAA) for the granting of a hardship waiver...and, as I said, my uneducated guess is that they found that the "hardship" was not the reason that she transferred.

 

[upstater]

And Upstater...it isn't about her education at Seton...she is being educated on scholarship...she wants to play basketball this year. It is about playing basketball at Seton.

The rules prevent that. In the hearing of the facts, it is evident that the young lady did not meat the criteria (according to the NCAA) for the granting of a hardship waiver...and, as I said, my uneducated guess is that they found that the "hardship" was not the reason that she transferred.

Face it, you guys really don't give a damn about all this education stuff.