Brady/Goodell Round 1 | The Boneyard

Brady/Goodell Round 1

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Goodell is on the ropes already.
Here's a quote from the Judge that should have the NFL lawyers' scrotums deflating - - - "“What is the evidence of a scheme or conspiracy that covers the Jan. 15 game? I’m having trouble finding it."
Ouch.
Any lawyers on board who do CBA appeals? I can't easily find what the standard of review is. If Goodell's decision is reversible based on either 1. Not supported by evidence, or 2. Arbitrary compared to established punishments, then this is getting overturned and Brady's going to beat the rap, as it were. The Judge's language seems to be a warning shot to the NFL to settle and save some face rather than let this get to a decision. Not sure how much face the NFL can save, however, because Brady is not going to accept a single game suspension, and he may not accept any punishment at all.
Having a federal judge throw out his decision would, for Goodell, be his death knell - no way the NFL can keep him on after that. Does this guy know where the bodies are buried?
 
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Don't kid yourself. Goodell will survive this even if the outcome doesn't go in his favor. He's making the owners a boat load of money.
 

intlzncster

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Don't kid yourself. Goodell will survive this even if the outcome doesn't go in his favor. He's making the owners a boat load of money.

He's tougher than a cockroach. Frankly, he took it this far due to pressure from several other owners, if reports are to be believed (and that certainly does make sense). I don't think these owners are just going to drop him.
 
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Brady isn't going to back off. He can totally exonerate himself and he smells blood in the water.
 
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Goodell is a scumbag and you can't trust him. However there is a reason he filed the case first in NYC. This court has heard 68 arbitration cases and upheld 66 of them. Not matter how weak his case is, he is betting the that this court will side with him.
 

intlzncster

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Goodell is a scumbag and you can't trust him. However there is a reason he filed the case first in NYC. This court has heard 68 arbitration cases and upheld 66 of them. Not matter how weak his case is, he is betting the that this court will side with him.

Although Goodell is what....0-4 in these things? Not a good track record. I heard someone say that the NFL preemptively filing in NYC could very well be used against them. Shows they were not confident in their position. Will be interesting.
 

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Who wants some?

brady-celebrates-620x484.jpg
 

polycom

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This is terrible for the NFL. This is going to cause everyone to appeal their suspension on a federal level.
 
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This is terrible for the NFL. This is going to cause everyone to appeal their suspension on a federal level.
Perhaps it will stop Goodell from making himself the arbitrator for the suspension he levied. I mean, that was the huge, and obvious, mistake he made. Everyone called him on it then, and it blew up in his face. I don't know if this could have gone to the federal level if there were an arbitrator who could even remotely be called unbiased.
 
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This is terrible for the NFL. This is going to cause everyone to appeal their suspension on a federal level.
No. Please go back and read my original post.
The problem here was very, very simple - they didn't have the evidence. That's it.
This is what I do for a living - every day, irate, emotional people come into my office and bark and yell about this and that and what's up their @sses. I then tell them, "no, no, you're not viewing this clearly, you don't have a great case and it could go either way and here's why." Unfortunately, on the other side, the other guy is saying, "you've got a great case. Give me a 5k retainer and we'll beat these chumps."
In this matter, a huge portion of those with an opinion is emotional, irrational, and unscientific. Ergo, there was a tremendous amount of opinions that merged into white noise, and that white noise smothered the very easy, very obvious truths:

1. There was virtually no evidence.
2. The Wells report was an unscientific, embarrassing hit piece from a non-independent employee of the NFL.
3. Because there was no evidence, the penalty administered by Goodell was illegal under the CBA laws because - follow this part closely (SAT critical reading skills came in at 40 year lows today) - the CBA signed by the NFL and the players gave Goodell the authority to administer punishments, but that did not mean that he could arbitrarily punish players without any evidence.

That's it. It's really that simple. Did he cheat? Maybe. But the CBA did not authorize Goodell to punish people based on "maybe."
 
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Oh my Lord, it just got better and the NFL has just doubled down and gone Full Ret@ard with their indication that they intend to appeal. Mercy, I do enjoy a good show, dear.
 

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I have to admit, I'm pretty surprised. I was actually at the initial hearing -- I had an argument on another matter and popped in -- and I thought Berman was showboating for the media and trying to browbeat the NFL into a settlement. Arbitral awards are notoriously hard to overturn, and the NFLPA did give Goodell a great deal of authority.

That said, as a neutral observer (I'm a Giants fan who has no ill will for the Pats), I think this is right as an equitable matter. The NFL overstepped, big-time.
 

Waquoit

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He's making the owners a boat load of money.

How is he, personally, making the owners a boatload of money. Seems to me he's more order taker than salesman. What's saves him is his huge contract. He's the Hanley Ramirez of the NFL.
 
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Arbitral awards are notoriously hard to overturn, and the NFLPA did give Goodell a great deal of authority.

That's true but, contra to the "there was virtually no evidence" post above as you probably know you're not going to have an arbitration award vacated because the evidence is weak. The only way you're going to get the result the union got today is if there's some procedural infirmity rendering the process unfair. I've only skimmed the opinion but it looks like Berman identified at least three procedural defects: (1) inadequate notice to Brady' (2) denying him the right to examine witnesses; and (3) denying him access to certain of the League's evidence. These are pretty textbook grounds upon which to vacate an arbitration award.

Typically motions to confirm arbitration awards, at least in my experience, are basically rubber-stamped by the trial court. The trier of fact at the arbitration really has to duck up the process to have the award vacated. Thank god for Goodell.
 

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How is he, personally, making the owners a boatload of money. Seems to me he's more order taker than salesman. What's saves him is his huge contract. He's the Hanley Ramirez of the NFL.

All the fans hate him, when he just does the owners' bidding. Deflecting the heat like that will earn you a TON of money.
 

intlzncster

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That said, as a neutral observer (I'm a Giants fan who has no ill will for the Pats), I think this is right as an equitable matter. The NFL overstepped, big-time.

The NFL is now 0-5 in these things! They appealing again and very well could be 0-6. They need to pull their collective head out of their arse stat.

Pretty cool you got to see it live. Granted, you do it all the time and I don't, but still.
 

intlzncster

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All the fans hate him, when he just does the owners' bidding. Deflecting the heat like that will earn you a TON of money.

Yep. He's basically their henchman. Although, I think their is definite ill will from a group of owners now: Patriots, Saints, Dolphins, and some others.
 

nomar

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That's true but, contra to the "there was virtually no evidence" post above as you probably know you're not going to have an arbitration award vacated because the evidence is weak. The only way you're going to get the result the union got today is if there's some procedural infirmity rendering the process unfair. I've only skimmed the opinion but it looks like Berman identified at least three procedural defects: (1) inadequate notice to Brady' (2) denying him the right to examine witnesses; and (3) denying him access to certain of the League's evidence. These are pretty textbook grounds upon which to vacate an arbitration award.

Typically motions to confirm arbitration awards, at least in my experience, are basically rubber-stamped by the trial court. The trier of fact at the arbitration really has to duck up the process to have the award vacated. Thank god for Goodell.

Yeah, as a non-Pats fan, I really wasn't all that focused on this, and wasn't really aware of the alleged procedural defects. Berman wasn't focusing on them, at least when I was watching. He was throwing out red meat about Brady's second-half performance (completely irrelevant) and what Wells meant when he said "at least generally aware" (I thought it was pretty clear).
 

nomar

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The NFL is now 0-5 in these things! They appealing again and very well could be 0-6. They need to pull their collective head out of their arse stat.

Pretty cool you got to see it live. Granted, you do it all the time and I don't, but still.

Most of my conferences/arguments involve a bunch of shlubby lawyers and businessmen, not Tom Brady and Roger Goodelll!
 
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I have to admit, I'm pretty surprised. I was actually at the initial hearing -- I had an argument on another matter and popped in -- and I thought Berman was showboating for the media and trying to browbeat the NFL into a settlement. Arbitral awards are notoriously hard to overturn, and the NFLPA did give Goodell a great deal of authority.

That said, as a neutral observer (I'm a Giants fan who has no ill will for the Pats), I think this is right as an equitable matter. The NFL overstepped, big-time.

Nomar...you obviously have some expertise here. I thought that since Goddell's power was collectively bargained, unless there was something incorrect from a procedural level that the court couldn't just say well I would have reached a different conclusion. What is the point of the collective bargaining agreement if Goddell can't impose a punishment that is granted to him? Is this a case of an over zealous judge that will reversed if they appeal?
 
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Yeah, as a non-Pats fan, I really wasn't all that focused on this, and wasn't really aware of the alleged procedural defects. Berman wasn't focusing on them, at least when I was watching. He was throwing out red meat about Brady's second-half performance (completely irrelevant) and what Wells meant when he said "at least generally aware" (I thought it was pretty clear).
It's surprises me the judge was talking about Brady's second half performance and how he doesn't think deflated footballs gave the Patriots a competitive advantage. Is it normal for a judge to talk about irrelevant stuff like this?
 
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I thought that since Goddell's power was collectively bargained, unless there was something incorrect from a procedural level that the court couldn't just say well I would have reached a different conclusion.

The court can't, and didn't, say "I would have reached a different conclusion." The default posture of the courts when considering arbitration awards is deference, and the courts won't consider the weight of the evidence. But when there are procedural defects - misconduct by the trier of fact, corruption, declining to consider evidence/witnesses - the court can vacate the award. It's why a motion in limine in an arbitration is typically a waste of time - an arbitrator's going to let it all come in so no one one can claim unfairness.
 

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Nomar...you obviously have some expertise here. I thought that since Goddell's power was collectively bargained, unless there was something incorrect from a procedural level that the court couldn't just say well I would have reached a different conclusion.

Right, and that's what Berman did here. Read BigErn's comment right below mine. (Actually, now I see BigErn responded to your comment.)

Now, without having read anything in full (the CBA, the Wells Report, Berman's decision), and having failed to predict this, I'm in no position to gauge the likelihood of success on an appeal. But I'm sure an appeal would not be without some merit.
 
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You know, I loaded this page before I logged in and had the misfortune of seeing somebody's post who I had put on ignore. He claimed to have "skimmed" the judge's opinion, and then he highlights 3 points that are ripped almost directly from a Ian Rappaport Tweet, which tweet reads . . . "The 3 main points Berman made in nullifying the suspension: 1. No notice of discipline; 2. No testimony from Pash; 3. No access to files." If not that, definitely some other Internet source. Nice work claiming others' thoughts as your own.

I read the whole opinion - did not just "skim it". :rolleyes: Have no doubt that the judge ruled against the NFL because they had no evidence. Whatever grounds he flagged as the pretext for his decision, it all comes back to a complete lack of evidence, and he would not have overturned it if they had the goods on Brady. On page 27 of the opinion, the Judge notes: "With respect to "general awareness" of others' misconduct . . . Brady had no notice that such conduct was prohibited . . . ."

That was the Judge's method of saying, "you have no evidence that Brady did anything wrong, and your pathetic payed dog desperation conclusion of "general awareness" does not legally cut it."
 
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