Better Next Year? Really? | Page 5 | The Boneyard

Better Next Year? Really?

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Waquoit

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Yeah but they only beat ND because Achonwa was out!!! :eek::rolleyes::cool::) And wasn't that the team in 2014 that struggled against BYU and Texas A&M!!!:eek: I demand a recount!!!
Do you think Tuck hangs 25 on Dolson?
 

Geno-ista

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Yeah but they only beat ND because Achonwa was out!!! :eek::rolleyes::cool::) And wasn't that the team in 2014 that struggled against BYU and Texas A&M!!!:eek: I demand a recount!!!
U r using logic now UC- Both games were basically in doubt as long as the Dayton game- but what does that prove? 4 all Americans on this team. Mo became the best point Gd in the country. It would have been a great game 2014 vs 2015. I don't think it would have been a blow out either way.
 

Geno-ista

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Do you think Tuck hangs 25 on Dolson?
She wouldn't have to? What does that mean? Match ups chg everything. And Dolson wasn't quick enough to guard Morgan up high- she'd explode around her from outside. The game would be a great game- but I don't see it as a double digit either way. We had 4 all Americans this yr, and more options off the bench.
 

msf22b

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I did, the 2014 was clearly better. They didn't lose during the year. They didn't struggle against a Dayton. And they blew out a superior ND team in the finals. Not even close.

Didn't they struggle against some Utah team?
 

UcMiami

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Geno-ista - I think everybody is just yanking everybody else's chain at this point. Hence the :confused::cool::rolleyes::eek::)
 

MilfordHusky

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What I am saying is that no one on next year's team will be a better shooter than KML was. KML's shooting was a major weapon for this team. Apparently an underappreciated weapon based on this thread. UConn will be the chalk, but for next years team to be better, a frosh or two will need to be great.
Meet Lou and Napheesa.
 

MilfordHusky

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I did, the 2014 was clearly better. They didn't lose during the year. They didn't struggle against a Dayton. And they blew out a superior ND team in the finals. Not even close.
The margin of victory was almost 10 points better in 2015. We forget, but the 2014 team had some lackluster performances. The 2015 team had fewer.
 
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But she excels at the core of the game. Putting the ball in the hoop. How many opposing rallies were snuffed out before they even got going by one of her daggers?
The entire roster, including Breanna and Moriah and Morgan are likely to be better, stronger as will our former freshman, now sophomores and you've got three exceptional freshmen coming in along with a staunch center with experience. Do you remember a few years ago when we had three freshmen who excelled and contributed a great deal to the team? Moriah started showing herself in the NCAA's but Breanna had already shown herself a bit earlier. Morgan also contributed so what's to say that these new kids won't equal or exceed that? KLS has been spoken of as being a very savvy kid and she can shoot from all over the court, from the three or midrange. Geno has spoken of her in ways to suggest that she may be the best shooter he's seen coming out of high school. Collier has been compared here to two pretty impressive UConn players, Morgan and Maya. If she's anywhere near either of them, that suggests we've got something special, don't you think. KML had a quick release but KLS is taller and has a QUICKER release and more mobility. I'm inclined to think she'll be a bit better on the defensive end of the court, at least as the year progresses, because of her better quickness. There aren't too many teams out there who haven't lost a key piece or two and I think we have a much better core of people than anyone else in the women's game returning. We have the number one recruiting class coming in and a Big East freshman of the year whose bigger and stronger and whose had a year learning our system and playing under the best staff in the game against some of the best players in the game, practice after practice. I think all those things will certainly pay some dividends, don't you?
 
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I was thinking about how one would determine that.

I guess we can be fairly sure that KML would light up the scoreboard if she were defended by KML.
But how successful would Moriah be trying to drive against Moriah?
Would Stewie be able to score in the paint against Stewie? And could Stewie keep Stewie off the boards?

And based on the answers to these questions, would the 2014 or the 2015 team be favored?

If you want to talk about the matchups that actually involve different human beings, I would offer this:
  • I think Morgan could probably put up 20 to 25 points against Stef, and get Stef in foul trouble. Stef also could not run the floor with Morgan, and might only be able to play 15 to 20 minutes. Kiah would have to come in to defend Morgan, and then 2014's offense would suffer. After all, as Doris would tell us, 2015 could defend 5 against 4 (at least until Kiah came in for 2015 to give Morgan a rest).
  • When Kia Nurse guarded Bria Hartley, Kia would take away her penetration and would make her hit jump shots. If Bria were having a good shooting night (a very hit-or-miss proposition), she might score 20 on pull-up jump shots from the free throw line. But I doubt that Bria would get any steals against Kia, and Kia would defend Bria very well in transition. Kia probably wouldn't score too many points on the offensive end, however.
On the whole, I would give the 2015 editions of Stewie and especially the post-Christmas Moriah a distinct advantage over their 2014 incarnations, and therefore would give the edge to the 2015 team.
I agree with some of what you say but the Kia versus Bria thing is hard for me to agree with. Kia was a big asset and better than most people might have thought she would be but I think Bria would absolutely get steals against Kia and there's absolutely no doubt who is the better offensive player. I'd take Bria in a heartbeat against Kia and that isn't to suggest that there's that big a gap but there is an obvious difference, at least between a senior Bria and a freshman, Kia. I think if you tried to push that argument in a discussion with Geno he'd look at you in total wonderment.
 
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I did, the 2014 was clearly better. They didn't lose during the year. They didn't struggle against a Dayton. And they blew out a superior ND team in the finals. Not even close.
No, they, the 2014 edition, struggled in two consecutive games in the NCAA tournament, I think in Nebraska. The only person who pulled them out of a big tailspin was KML. Until the 2015 edition laid that egg against ND in the NCAA final and shot brick after brick, they were pretty much rolling over everyone. Dayton played a fantastic first half and shot at a level that everyone was stunned by but with a halftime adjustment, the Huskies dominated and crushed them with a great second half.
 
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Do you think Tuck hangs 25 on Dolson?
Stef was susceptible to foul trouble and Morgan is so quick and so strong. Stef might have had two fouls and been out of the lineup early in the first half so maybe Morgan might have been scoring some of her 25 points against whoever got the assignment with Stef on the bench. By the way, I think UConn's team defense is one of the reasons Stef was recognized as an outstanding defensive player. It helps when you don't have to fudge off your player to cover up a lapse of another teammate. This argument about what team is better actually almost pits Boneyarders against Boneyarders partially based on their "favorites" and makes people take sides when we love both teams. I'm not sure it's very healthy having this discussion.
 

Waquoit

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I here you. Taking one side can be interpreted as a criticism of the other. But it isn't. Its all good.
 

UcMiami

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The margin of victory was almost 10 points better in 2015. We forget, but the 2014 team had some lackluster performances. The 2015 team had fewer.
The MOV has more to do with bench play in blow outs than with competitive games and starters performance. The schedule was also significantly better with Louisville (3) and Rutgers (2) still in conference
 

BigBird

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What is the likelihood of UConn being even better next year?

Based on all that's been posted in this thread, I say the answer is "fairly good."
 
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I go with 2014. They never allowed a team to beat them. Though I liked this team's style more.

Dolson is better than Tuck. Tuck isn't putting 25 on Dolson. Dolson guarded Chiney - she can guard Tuck. Reimer did a pretty good job on Tuck the 2nd time - so would Dolson. .

You'd have to put this year's MoJeff on Hartley otherwise Kia would foul out or be on the bench for much of the game.

The big advantage I see for 201 team - though I don't think is enough - is KML vs KML. I think this year's version of KML much better than 2014.
 
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I go with 2014. They never allowed a team to beat them. Though I liked this team's style more.

Dolson is better than Tuck. Tuck isn't putting 25 on Dolson. Dolson guarded Chiney - she can guard Tuck. Reimer did a pretty good job on Tuck the 2nd time - so would Dolson. .

You'd have to put this year's MoJeff on Hartley otherwise Kia would foul out or be on the bench for much of the game.

The big advantage I see for 201 team - though I don't think is enough - is KML vs KML. I think this year's version of KML much better than 2014.
Tuck is not nearly as athletic as was Chiney but in my mind, she is more skilled. Chiney lived off of her athleticism and her field goal percentage against decent competition was horrific. You can't say the same for Tuck. Reimer did nothing on Tuck. Tuck was just too hyper and missed blatantly shots that she would make 99% of the time. Reimer was a non factor in the difference between the two games. It was noted many times and she rushed shots and was erratic. It's always nice to give credit to someone for a great defensive job but there were numerous times Reimer wasn't even near Tuck to cause any kind of effect on Tucks play. Morgan was rushing everything that night and typically she's so relaxed and in the moment that she never appears rattled. It was just a night when she was not herself. Dolson would probably foul out or Morgan would have a bunch of success against Stef. Dolson didn't have nearly the quickness to play one on one with Morgan.
 
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Tuck is not nearly as athletic as was Chiney but in my mind, she is more skilled. Chiney lived off of her athleticism and her field goal percentage against decent competition was horrific. You can't say the same for Tuck. Reimer did nothing on Tuck. Tuck was just too hyper and missed blatantly shots that she would make 99% of the time. Reimer was a non factor in the difference between the two games. It was noted many times and she rushed shots and was erratic. It's always nice to give credit to someone for a great defensive job but there were numerous times Reimer wasn't even near Tuck to cause any kind of effect on Tucks play. Morgan was rushing everything that night and typically she's so relaxed and in the moment that she never appears rattled. It was just a night when she was not herself. Dolson would probably foul out or Morgan would have a bunch of success against Stef. Dolson didn't have nearly the quickness to play one on one with Morgan.


1-- I don't agree that Reimer did "nothing against Tuck. I don't agree it was all just "hyped up Morgan." I knwowhat you're saying about it's nice to give credit . . . but sometimes the credit is due. In this case imo it was due.

2--- I've got to run to work - I'll check later on Stanford website. You said Chiney's fg% was horrific vs decent compettion? Other than UCONN-- who? If I go into the Stanford website I'm going to see for 2- 3 years she was lousy a lot (and not good very much at all?) vs other teams not named UCONN?

3--- Tuck's outside was decent but not that good. I seldom recall all year a team was in her grill from the outside. If she is going to take outside shots - go for it. You play a 7 game series I'd live with that vs having the other players shoot fromt the outside.
 
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Tuck is not nearly as athletic as was Chiney but in my mind, she is more skilled. Chiney lived off of her athleticism and her field goal percentage against decent competition was horrific. You can't say the same for Tuck. Reimer did nothing on Tuck. Tuck was just too hyper and missed blatantly shots that she would make 99% of the time. Reimer was a non factor in the difference between the two games. It was noted many times and she rushed shots and was erratic. It's always nice to give credit to someone for a great defensive job but there were numerous times Reimer wasn't even near Tuck to cause any kind of effect on Tucks play. Morgan was rushing everything that night and typically she's so relaxed and in the moment that she never appears rattled. It was just a night when she was not herself. Dolson would probably foul out or Morgan would have a bunch of success against Stef. Dolson didn't have nearly the quickness to play one on one with Morgan.

I know this is a UCONN board, so a little tunnel vision might be expected, but "[Chiney Ogwumike's] field goal percentage against decent competition was horrific" is just plain wrong. Against UCONN, career, she was 31.8%. Against all other ranked competition, including PAC-12 and NCAA tournaments, she was 56%. That's pretty darn good against the best teams in the country. Bad numbers against UCONN happens to everyone. In fact, the only major non-UCONN game I can recall her having a bad shooting night ever was the 2013 PAC-12 championship game against UCLA.
 
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Here's why I expect UConn to be better next year if healthy.

KLS should be about as good as KML was as a freshman (both consensus #1 but neither in the Breanna, Maya, DT league).

Of course Sr. KML > Fr KML

But was KML's improvement b/w Fr and Sr years >
Kia's improvement from Fr to So yr PLUS
Tuck's improvement from So yr to Jr yr PLUS
Moriah's improvement from Jr. yr to Sr. yr?

And that's only counting improvement by starters or Breanna.

I don't expect Butler to be as good as Stokes but it will be close and more than offset by the additions of Collier and Boykin.

Will the top four be as good? No but top six will be as good and full rotation will be better.
 

DobbsRover2

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I know this is a UCONN board, so a little tunnel vision might be expected, but "[Chiney Ogwumike's] field goal percentage against decent competition was horrific" is just plain wrong. Against UCONN, career, she was 31.8%. Against all other ranked competition, including PAC-12 and NCAA tournaments, she was 56%. That's pretty darn good against the best teams in the country. Bad numbers against UCONN happens to everyone. In fact, the only major non-UCONN game I can recall her having a bad shooting night ever was the 2013 PAC-12 championship game against UCLA.
Indeed, Chiney was extraordinarily consistent in a good way, outside of every time she had to go up against UConn. The 8-24 regular season performance against Texas her senior year, that 1-9 against UCLA in a PACCT win her junior year, and a 2-7 against Texas A&M in the FF her freshman year were her only real off games for shooting outside of Husky games. That is stunning.
 
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Indeed, Chiney was extraordinarily consistent in a good way, outside of every time she had to go up against UConn. The 8-24 regular season performance against Texas her senior year, that 1-9 against UCLA in a PACCT win her junior year, and a 2-7 against Texas A&M in the FF her freshman year were her only real off games for shooting outside of Husky games. That is stunning.

Sure but we can't ignore for example what she did in her senior year in S16 and E8, can we?
 

DobbsRover2

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Sure but we can't ignore for example what she did in her senior year in S16 and E8, can we?
Huh? Not sure what you mean. As mentioned Chiney's off games were few and far between and she had almost stunning consistency during her career. The S16 and E8 games of her senior year were more of the same great effort with a combined 49 points and 25 rebounds. Why would anyone ignore them? They just show more of a great player who UConn definitely focused on to shut down as far as possible in their games.
 
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I know this is a UCONN board, so a little tunnel vision might be expected, but "[Chiney Ogwumike's] field goal percentage against decent competition was horrific" is just plain wrong. Against UCONN, career, she was 31.8%. Against all other ranked competition, including PAC-12 and NCAA tournaments, she was 56%. That's pretty darn good against the best teams in the country. Bad numbers against UCONN happens to everyone. In fact, the only major non-UCONN game I can recall her having a bad shooting night ever was the 2013 PAC-12 championship game against UCLA.
Let me just say that I wasn't taking into account all the chippees she got due to offensive rebounds with her quickness when her opponents were out of position. It didn't happen nearly often enough against UConn to build her percentages up but I rarely ever saw her hit an outside shot with any regularity. I stand by that. I saw her against other opponents where she missed a number of shots from the perimeter and then two or three offensive rebound layups to buoy her percentages. I didn't see her game after game and I doubt anyone on this site did but I felt her quickness and athleticism compensated greatly for pretty poor shooting. I guess I didn't take into account how the high percentage of layups upped her shooting percentages.
 
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Let me just say that I wasn't taking into account all the chippees she got due to offensive rebounds with her quickness when her opponents were out of position. It didn't happen nearly often enough against UConn to build her percentages up but I rarely ever saw her hit an outside shot with any regularity. I stand by that. I saw her against other opponents where she missed a number of shots from the perimeter and then two or three offensive rebound layups to buoy her percentages. I didn't see her game after game and I doubt anyone on this site did but I felt her quickness and athleticism compensated greatly for pretty poor shooting. I guess I didn't take into account how the high percentage of layups upped her shooting percentages.

Really have no idea what to do with this.

It's almost like you are saying that she was a combination of quick and lucky, which resulted in her getting a lot of freebies "when her opponents were out of position." IMO that does a pretty large disservice to a pretty good player. She was not asked to take outside shots at Stanford because they had a surplus of outside shooters: she only took 19 3s in her entire career. Was she as versatile as Tuck? No, I guess not, but Tuck has no mid-range jump shot, so she's not the most versatile either: with Tuck, it's either 3 pt shot, drive to layup, or post moves. If Gabby Williams goes through her career playing the way she did freshman year, only with more minutes - averages 17 pts/game on 65% shooting entire on layups and offensive rebounds - some might criticize her one-dimensionality, but I don't think too many would complain about her production and contribution to UCONN.

Agree to disagree, I guess.
 
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