B1G

[thatguyed]

I throw up in my mouth, just a little bit, every time I see this thread showing posts.

 

[UConnJim]

bu s public, big an aau. t fills in the bad parts of b and together they make a nice fi for the b10. hey bring 2 puck team which kills theb10 biggestcompetition(he)

those 2 puck teams, dot laugh turn on the boson market alon cable bo wise.bingo for the b10N. moot cause now because cuse made the dcision for them ad bc that theacc was alwaysgoing to live in some sort of privte school way...

HFD, you are making so many outrageous claims.

First, BU is not a public university. Second, it would have no interest in the Big 10 for hockey as HE, even without BC, would be a very good conference with easy travel (all HE schools are in New England except Notre Dame.) So BU would send their hockey teams all over the Midwest so they could be in a conference with BC? Crazy.

Next up is BC. BC is not even close to a fit for the Big 10 from an academic standpoint. Yes, they are a good school, but this is not a big research school with no engineering school and no medical school. And, I would think that the Big 10 understands that BC does not bring the Boston market as BC in Boston is similar to Northwestern in Chicago.

Finally, how do you come up with the idea of "combining" BU and BC to make BC attractive to the Big 10? I guess it's a function of an early Friday Happy Hour.

 

[Dann]

HFD, you are making so many outrageous claims. today seems pretty normal to me no?

First, BU is not a public university. i sad earlier i was wrng fow writing that.Second, it would have no interest in the Big 10 for hockey as HE, even without BC, would be a very good conference with easy travel (all HE schools are in New England except Notre Dame.) i will argue that all day. bc an bu in theb10 get a huge payday from the b10n and HE diesithout those 2 to a mid major conf behind b10puck. with uconn and psu trave is not th beast you make it to be. So BU would send their hockey teams all over the Midwest so they could be in a conference with BC? Crazy.

Next up is BC. BC is not even close to a fit for the Big 10 from an academic standpoint. thats why bu is a package deal. bu is big, lke 30k big and aau. cic needs to get into boston. together the bring enough size and esearch wise. together thy capture boston cabl boxesYes, they are a good school, but this is not a big research school with no engineering school and no medical school. And, I would think that the Big 10 understands that BC does not bring the Boston market as BC in Boston is similar to Northwestern in Chicago.

Finally, how do you come up with the idea of "combining" BU and BC to make BC attractive to the Big 10? I guess it's a function of an early Friday Happy Hour.it was looked at by the powers that bein the b10. its part of why bu made a huge au push the past 5 years. they were goin to get it but relly acceleated it.it was on the table. cuse ruined it ll for them. bc and cuse re not big publics. they are bg privates but in tates where they are #1. unique opporunities that dnt work out for the b10. [/quote]

 

[brasssbonanzaa]

Second, it would have no interest in the Big 10 for hockey as HE, even without BC, would be a very good conference with easy travel (all HE schools are in New England except Notre Dame.) So BU would send their hockey teams all over the Midwest so they could be in a conference with BC? Crazy.

Yes, it would. BU and BC are inextricably tied at the hip with respect to hockey. If BC moved to the B1G, they'd immediately take an invite as a hockey affiliate member, and were ND not to go with BC, the B1G hockey schools would 100% absolutely offer said invite, and then ND would leave HE for the NCHC. That 8-team conference of UM, MSU, Wisconsin, Minnesota, BU, BC, Ohio State, and Penn State would be a who's who of national championship winners, and the best conference ever created. Plus, it would be the perfect size. Travel would royally suck, but being left in a massively depleted HE would be worse.

 

[GopherHawk]

Glad we got this thread back on track.

Anyway, the comment about BU was with regards to the two types of schools the B1G could offer membership to. National Brand or Potential. I think it is less expensive to create a national brand than an AAU type research giant.

If you are not able to add a national brand you need to add a school that meets all of the other metrics that can become a national brand.

I personally don't think BU or BC gets invited. It was just to get this thread back on track. BU does meet all of the B1G criteria except from a sports standpoint.

Also you guys always look at the USNWR ranks that are weighted towards undergrad. Look at the USNWR world rankings where research is weighted more heavily. BU is #64. UCONN is #366. Remember that the B1G is trying to work on the world stage from an academic and research angle.

http://www.usnews.com/education/worlds-best-universities-rankings/top-400-universities-in-the-world

 

[Adios]

Remember that the B1G is trying to work on the world stage from an academic and research angle.

That appears to be precisely UConn's goal. The writing is spray-painted all over the wall.

 

[MTHusky]

How is it that BU would be just as feasible as BC when BU has no football team? Are you talking about academic profile? Sure, BC isn't an AAU school, but that isn't really the kind of school it's trying to be. ND (very similar school to BC) isn't AAU and B1G would accept them in a heartbeat. I'm pretty sure academics wouldn't prevent BC (#31 USNWR) or ND (#17 USNWR) from being admitted to any conference. (By the way, BU is #51.)

Neither BU or BCU have a football team

 

[frankthetank]

A couple of thoughts:

(1) Johns Hopkins was the the right school in the right location at the right time playing the right sport to become a Big Ten affiliate number. The Big Ten needed one school to create a new lacrosse league and JHU was there as an academic powerhouse right next to a brand new all-sports member (Maryland) and, just as importantly, doesn't play any Division I sports other than men's and women's lacrosse (so this is NOT the same as cherrypicking programs from schools that put revenue sports like football and basketball elsewhere in manner of, say, inviting Notre Dame and BU just for hockey would). JHU is a completely unique situation and I don't see the Big Ten having a desire to add any other affiliate members (which means the thoughts of BU joining the Big Ten for hockey don't make sense). On the other hand...

(2) BC isn't necessarily a very high target for the Big Ten, but to say that they absolutely would never consider them is incorrect. As I've stated elsewhere, many fans underrate how much university leaders overrate the value of BC (if that makes sense). To extent that the Big Ten would ever consider non-AAU members, BC could definitely be in the mix. They're not a headliner, but they're actually a pretty good national TV draw once you get past the marquee names (i.e. a Michigan vs. BC game is going to get solid ratings compared to most games where Michigan is playing a non-Ohio State/Penn State/Notre Dame-type). There's a perception among college leaders (and I'm not saying that it's right and I know people here will likely disagree with it) is that while Boston isn't a college sports market, the *only* way to really get any traction there is to have BC (and that in and of itself makes BC into a more valuable school than people who focus on their lackluster on-the-field/court records and attendance records give them credit for because university leaders and conference commissioners are willing to take that chance for the Boston market). Conferences generally still remember the drawing power that BC had during the Doug Flutie years and even in much of the 1990s, so they see BC having something close to levels from the past as an exceptionally valuable school in the conference realignment game. Once again, this is critical: BC generally outperforms similarly situated programs in terms of TV ratings (and TV matters more in the conference realignment game than in-person attendance), so they're considered to be an excellent "depth" school to fill out a conference.

 

[brasssbonanzaa]

JHU is a completely unique situation and I don't see the Big Ten having a desire to add any other affiliate members (which means the thoughts of BU joining the Big Ten for hockey don't make sense).

http://www.collegecrosse.com/2013/1...hopkins-lacrosse-big-10-ten-b1g-big-east-ecac

 

[B1GALUM]

BC isn't necessarily a very high target for the Big Ten, but to say that they absolutely would never consider them is incorrect. Once again, this is critical: BC generally outperforms similarly situated programs in terms of TV ratings (and TV matters more in the conference realignment game than in-person attendance), so they're considered to be an excellent "depth" school to fill out a conference.

Alright let's consider, for the sake of discussion, the ACC GOR is not finalized and ACC teams are open to moving to a more lucrative conference. If BC is 'considered to be an excellent "depth" school to fill out a conference', then what is the order of preference for the B1G from #15 up to #20?

 

[upstater]

Because BC would obviously take the B1G all sports admission, meaning their hockey team would go too, this would deplete HE. ND would likely go NCHC if BC left (assuming they stay ACC) as well, leaving a very, very depleted HE. Thus, if BU were offered a spot as an affiliate hockey member, it would keep them playing against the highest level of competition, specifically, in the best conference in the country by a country mile. It'd be a sad day for the sport and eastern hockey in general, but if it was offered, they'd take it.

I don't see BU leaving at all. HE is regional. It has a lot of good teams.

 

[upstater]

A couple of thoughts:

(1) Johns Hopkins was the the right school in the right location at the right time playing the right sport to become a Big Ten affiliate number. The Big Ten needed one school to create a new lacrosse league and JHU was there as an academic powerhouse right next to a brand new all-sports member (Maryland) and, just as importantly, doesn't play any Division I sports other than men's and women's lacrosse (so this is NOT the same as cherrypicking programs from schools that put revenue sports like football and basketball elsewhere in manner of, say, inviting Notre Dame and BU just for hockey would). JHU is a completely unique situation and I don't see the Big Ten having a desire to add any other affiliate members (which means the thoughts of BU joining the Big Ten for hockey don't make sense). On the other hand...

(2) BC isn't necessarily a very high target for the Big Ten, but to say that they absolutely would never consider them is incorrect. As I've stated elsewhere, many fans underrate how much university leaders overrate the value of BC (if that makes sense). To extent that the Big Ten would ever consider non-AAU members, BC could definitely be in the mix. They're not a headliner, but they're actually a pretty good national TV draw once you get past the marquee names (i.e. a Michigan vs. BC game is going to get solid ratings compared to most games where Michigan is playing a non-Ohio State/Penn State/Notre Dame-type). There's a perception among college leaders (and I'm not saying that it's right and I know people here will likely disagree with it) is that while Boston isn't a college sports market, the *only* way to really get any traction there is to have BC (and that in and of itself makes BC into a more valuable school than people who focus on their lackluster on-the-field/court records and attendance records give them credit for because university leaders and conference commissioners are willing to take that chance for the Boston market). Conferences generally still remember the drawing power that BC had during the Doug Flutie years and even in much of the 1990s, so they see BC having something close to levels from the past as an exceptionally valuable school in the conference realignment game. Once again, this is critical: BC generally outperforms similarly situated programs in terms of TV ratings (and TV matters more in the conference realignment game than in-person attendance), so they're considered to be an excellent "depth" school to fill out a conference.

#2 ignores all the facts. Whatever the perception is, you're going to have to get over the fact that in the early 2000s, rodeo had high ratings in Boston than BC football.

 

[upstater]

Glad we got this thread back on track.

Anyway, the comment about BU was with regards to the two types of schools the B1G could offer membership to. National Brand or Potential. I think it is less expensive to create a national brand than an AAU type research giant.

If you are not able to add a national brand you need to add a school that meets all of the other metrics that can become a national brand.

I personally don't think BU or BC gets invited. It was just to get this thread back on track. BU does meet all of the B1G criteria except from a sports standpoint.

Also you guys always look at the USNWR ranks that are weighted towards undergrad. Look at the USNWR world rankings where research is weighted more heavily. BU is #64. UCONN is #366. Remember that the B1G is trying to work on the world stage from an academic and research angle.

http://www.usnews.com/education/worlds-best-universities-rankings/top-400-universities-in-the-world

I wouldn't pay 2 cents for those rankings.

 

[UConnJim]

A couple of thoughts:

(1) Johns Hopkins was the the right school in the right location at the right time playing the right sport to become a Big Ten affiliate number. The Big Ten needed one school to create a new lacrosse league and JHU was there as an academic powerhouse right next to a brand new all-sports member (Maryland) and, just as importantly, doesn't play any Division I sports other than men's and women's lacrosse (so this is NOT the same as cherrypicking programs from schools that put revenue sports like football and basketball elsewhere in manner of, say, inviting Notre Dame and BU just for hockey would). JHU is a completely unique situation and I don't see the Big Ten having a desire to add any other affiliate members (which means the thoughts of BU joining the Big Ten for hockey don't make sense). On the other hand...

(2) BC isn't necessarily a very high target for the Big Ten, but to say that they absolutely would never consider them is incorrect. As I've stated elsewhere, many fans underrate how much university leaders overrate the value of BC (if that makes sense). To extent that the Big Ten would ever consider non-AAU members, BC could definitely be in the mix. They're not a headliner, but they're actually a pretty good national TV draw once you get past the marquee names (i.e. a Michigan vs. BC game is going to get solid ratings compared to most games where Michigan is playing a non-Ohio State/Penn State/Notre Dame-type). There's a perception among college leaders (and I'm not saying that it's right and I know people here will likely disagree with it) is that while Boston isn't a college sports market, the *only* way to really get any traction there is to have BC (and that in and of itself makes BC into a more valuable school than people who focus on their lackluster on-the-field/court records and attendance records give them credit for because university leaders and conference commissioners are willing to take that chance for the Boston market). Conferences generally still remember the drawing power that BC had during the Doug Flutie years and even in much of the 1990s, so they see BC having something close to levels from the past as an exceptionally valuable school in the conference realignment game. Once again, this is critical: BC generally outperforms similarly situated programs in terms of TV ratings (and TV matters more in the conference realignment game than in-person attendance), so they're considered to be an excellent "depth" school to fill out a conference.

I disagree about BC's TV ratings as their ratings are more of a function of who they are playing, what channel they are playing on (ABC>ESPN>ESPN2>ESPNU), and in what time slot (8 PM>3:30 PM>noon). I would argue that BC football gets decent ratings WHEN they play Notre Dame, Miami, Florida St., USC, and sometimes VT. When they play the Dukes, UNCs, NC States, WF,.. of the world, they don't draw good ratings. If UConn was playing high level schools on a consistent basis, I believe they would have equal if not better ratings. Likewise, I expect Syracuse to get a ratings bump when they play ND, FSU, Miami... Basketball ratings for BC are non-existent.

 

[woomba]

I would be shocked if B1G ever took in both UConn and BC - maybe in a 20 member league but not as #15&16 or even an 18 member league.

 

[itgoeslike]

BC is totally not a fit for the B1G. How bringing along BU for hockey makes BC more attractive is mysterious. The B1G would still be stuck with a non-research, non-AAU, non-public, non-popular school with a 40k stadium that has no parking, no tailgating, and can't be expanded, and is despised by its neighbors. And the sports teams suck, except hockey.

I agree. If the B1G is really all about a long term structure for success, I don't see BC being part of that plan.

 

[itgoeslike]

I would be shocked if B1G ever took in both UConn and BC - maybe in a 20 member league but not as #15&16 or even an 18 member league.

When you consider the Big Ten's comments regarding teams within their current footprint, it's highly unlikely they would support a redundancy such as that. A rivalry relationship like Duke and UNC would be the only instance that would warrant a second look.

 

[GopherHawk]

I wouldn't pay 2 cents for those rankings.

If you don't like there world rankings why should you like their US rankings? Same company doing the rankings. Is it just because you like the numbers better when certain metrics are weighted higher?

Remember there are Lies, Dame Lies and statistics. You can find one that paints the picture you want.

Its not like being the 366th university in the world is a bad thing. That ranking included the Phd, Masters, Research etc type education that just an under graduate degree doesn't take part in. There are lots of incredible schools that are very slim on the post graduate buffet. That doesn't make them a worse school. It just changes what you go there for.

 

[upstater]

If you don't like there world rankings why should you like their US rankings? Same company doing the rankings. Is it just because you like the numbers better when certain metrics are weighted higher?

Remember there are Lies, Dame Lies and statistics. You can find one that paints the picture you want.

Its not like being the 366th university in the world is a bad thing. That ranking included the Phd, Masters, Research etc type education that just an under graduate degree doesn't take part in. There are lots of incredible schools that are very slim on the post graduate buffet. That doesn't make them a worse school. It just changes what you go there for.

I've been the biggest critic of their rankings for years.

You think all rankings are the same?

Carnegie sends teams to campus and they give you a colonoscopy. They put millions of dollars behind their surveys. USNWP gives the President a questionnaire to fill out, and often he's a twit, like U. Florida's guy, who stuck U.Penn in the 3rd tier and elevated his former podunk school into the top 20.

 

[frankthetank]

I disagree about BC's TV ratings as their ratings are more of a function of who they are playing, what channel they are playing on (ABC>ESPN>ESPN2>ESPNU), and in what time slot (8 PM>3:30 PM>noon). I would argue that BC football gets decent ratings WHEN they play Notre Dame, Miami, Florida St., USC, and sometimes VT. When they play the Dukes, UNCs, NC States, WF,.. of the world, they don't draw good ratings. If UConn was playing high level schools on a consistent basis, I believe they would have equal if not better ratings. Likewise, I expect Syracuse to get a ratings bump when they play ND, FSU, Miami... Basketball ratings for BC are non-existent.

This is exactly my point. BC vs. a crappy school isn't a ratings generator. I'm definitely not saying that. When BC plays a marquee school, though, BC actually has a fairly good history of national TV ratings compared to other teams playing those same marquee schools (compared to Syracuse, for instance).

Look - I know that many of you would rather run on hot coals than to give credit to BC on anything. Trust me, though - they're significantly more valuable than what most people are acknowledging here. They have location and history, which go a heck of a long way in conference realignment where old money trumps all. The fact that they have no fans in stands is almost irrelevant (similar to how poor attendance means nothing regarding the TV value of Miami) - they *are* a favorable TV draw compared to similarly situated non-marquee schools and that's always going to make them attractive in the conference realignment game due to their location.

 

[buggsy]

I wouldn't pay 2 cents for those rankings.

yet you probably hold USN&WR's U.S. rankings as gospel, correct?

 

[frankthetank]

#2 ignores all the facts. Whatever the perception is, you're going to have to get over the fact that in the early 2000s, rodeo had high ratings in Boston than BC football.

I don't know how many other ways to say this: college leaders in many other places view BC differently. They're looked at as a more valuable piece than what you're acknowledging. They have excellent academics, have a good amount of historical football tradition (compare their history to Rutgers), and are located in a massive market. And I'll just have to disagree about the TV ratings, as the data that I've seen indicates that they're generally a positive draw compared to similarly situated schools. So, BC basically scores well on all of the objective metrics that drive conference realignment except for fan attendance, and in today's world, that honestly doesn't matter as much as TV value. I'm not saying that the Big Ten would want BC over UVA or UNC, but believe me that it's far from outlandish.

 

[CL82]

This is exactly my point. BC vs. a crappy school isn't a ratings generator. I'm definitely not saying that. When BC plays a marquee school, though, BC actually has a fairly good history of national TV ratings compared to other teams playing those same marquee schools (compared to Syracuse, for instance).

Look - I know that many of you would rather run on hot coals than to give credit to BC on anything. Trust me, though - they're significantly more valuable than what most people are acknowledging here. They have location and history, which go a heck of a long way in conference realignment where old money trumps all. The fact that they have no fans in stands is almost irrelevant (similar to how poor attendance means nothing regarding the TV value of Miami) - they *are* a favorable TV draw compared to similarly situated non-marquee schools and that's always going to make them attractive in the conference realignment game due to their location.

Yes they do. They also have a recent history of failure on the field and on the court and fan apathy. I suspect that might just be a factor in their trend line.

 

[CAHUSKY]

They have excellent academics, have a good amount of historical football tradition (compare their history to Rutgers), and are located in a massive market. And I'll just have to disagree about the TV ratings, as the data that I've seen indicates that they're generally a positive draw compared to similarly situated schools..

Please share a link to this data

 

[itgoeslike]

This is exactly my point. BC vs. a crappy school isn't a ratings generator. I'm definitely not saying that. When BC plays a marquee school, though, BC actually has a fairly good history of national TV ratings compared to other teams playing those same marquee schools (compared to Syracuse, for instance).

Look - I know that many of you would rather run on hot coals than to give credit to BC on anything. Trust me, though - they're significantly more valuable than what most people are acknowledging here. They have location and history, which go a heck of a long way in conference realignment where old money trumps all. The fact that they have no fans in stands is almost irrelevant (similar to how poor attendance means nothing regarding the TV value of Miami) - they *are* a favorable TV draw compared to similarly situated non-marquee schools and that's always going to make them attractive in the conference realignment game due to their location.

Based upon the link below Boston College drew a .6 rating against Clemson and a dismal .4 rating against FSU. Both games were played on a Saturday and featured on ESPN2. Even a Saturday Game on ABC against Notre Dame drew less ratings than other comparable games. And I suspect Notre Dame fueled the lion's share of the ratings that were generated. In fact, the data suggests that BC is, if anything, a drain on ratings for Marquee teams.

http://www.sportsmediawatch.com/201...tv-ratings-for-almost-every-game-this-season/

Boston College is great school and I don't have anything against them. I just think they are a bad fit for the Big Ten, and contradict everything the B1G professes to care about. I'm sure some think BC will help lure ND, but in the end they will be disappointed and potentially embarrassed.